Author Topic: Immigration issues  (Read 616837 times)

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1300 on: January 22, 2018, 03:52:13 PM »
I prefer Trump's approach:

DACA
Merit Based Immigration
No Lottery
A Well Funded Law with complementary support

ccp

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1301 on: January 22, 2018, 06:14:01 PM »
one question about "DACA".

Ok we legitimize the children of illegals who were brought here illegally through the cute "no fault of their own phrase"

Then we know the crats will be screaming for their parents and other relatives with CNN posting daily crying families .


Crafty_Dog

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1302 on: January 22, 2018, 07:23:22 PM »
AND the 3M more who never registered and as such have not yet been counted , , ,

G M

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1303 on: January 22, 2018, 09:48:18 PM »
And how do you screen for who was brought here when? It's not like they have documentation of how and when they crossed the border.  Imagine the manpower that would be required to screen the "dreamers". USCIS struggles to screen people legally here who do have documentation and did enter the US legally.

DougMacG

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Shock poll: Americans want massive cuts to legal immigration
« Reply #1304 on: January 24, 2018, 12:00:21 PM »
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/22/shock-poll-us-wants-massive-cuts-legal-immigration/

Americans strongly support granting citizenship rights to illegal immigrant Dreamers. But they also back Mr. Trump’s three demands for a border wall, limits to the chain of family migration and an end to the Diversity Visa Lottery.
------------

Trumps other points could pass if votes in Congress matched the views of the people.

ccp

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1305 on: January 24, 2018, 06:38:56 PM »
This is a poll I can believe - unlike those idiotic CNN fake news polls that make it sound like everyone is for massive immigration and open borders.

Who can believe most Americans who were born here tolerate the concept of people coming and staying here illegally using our services and freedoms and laws to tell us what to do?

But with regard to DACA - How in tarnation are we going to know who was brought here as a child and lived here for decades and who is simply lying?

Did anyone see the article pointing out that most immigrants in Europe are lying about their ages?

And what about their illegal parents - you know they will marching in the streets that we can't break up families?

ccp

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1306 on: January 24, 2018, 06:42:29 PM »
This is a poll I can believe - unlike those idiotic CNN fake news polls that make it sound like everyone is for massive immigration and open borders.

Who can believe most Americans who were born here tolerate the concept of people coming and staying here illegally using our services and freedoms and laws to tell us what to do?

But with regard to DACA - How in tarnation are we going to know who was brought here as a child and lived here for decades and who is simply lying?

Did anyone see the article pointing out that most immigrants in Europe are lying about their ages?

And what about their illegal parents - you know they will marching in the streets that we can't break up families?


Thank God we don't have that slug Jeb as President.   Can you imagine?   We would have instantaneously 30 to 35 million new Democrat voters

the entire nation would become California  .   

Crafty_Dog

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ccp

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Crafty_Dog

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1309 on: January 26, 2018, 04:35:19 AM »
If accurate, Trump's offer is quite bad!!!

PS:  Breitbart seems to have dramatically improved in the wake of Bannon's departure.

ccp

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1310 on: January 26, 2018, 04:55:49 AM »
no real immigration reform for years

sort of like the tax cuts but in reverse. The business cuts go on forever but the individual ones phase out . 

Same pattern .  His policies geared more for the business crowd who are advising (Mnuchin et all) him rather the n those who voted for him.

Just my take ........

DougMacG

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1311 on: January 26, 2018, 06:56:07 AM »
no real immigration reform for years
sort of like the tax cuts but in reverse. The business cuts go on forever but the individual ones phase out . 
Same pattern .  His policies geared more for the business crowd who are advising (Mnuchin et all) him rather the n those who voted for him.
Just my take ........

On the tax cuts point, the corporate cuts had to be permanent or they wouldn't achieve any of the intended effect.  They would otherwise fail and just run up the deficit.  The personal cuts are temporary because of arcane Senate rules.  They become permanent whenever the House, Senate and President do that but it would take a rule change or 60 votes in the Senate to do it.  We shouldn't make a drop of 39.6% to 37% with eliminated deductions permanent.  We should make a cap of about 25% permanent.

As reported, the immigration offer is terrible, but I highly doubt that is the final deal.  Schumer offered wall money and took it away.  Trump previously and made some offer sounds that he took back.  He is a game player, wrote a book about it, brags about it, makes all kinds of head fakes to get what he wants.  He can say anything (because he is Donald Trump) and because it still has to go through a Republican House, get 60 votes in the Senate, or wait for another election.

In my opinion, more important than this report is the question of what deal he really should take.  Instead of a 10 year loophole against us, how about turning the trick the other way.  How about if 'dreamers' get legalization and a 'path' only if they meet the mighty description that Democrats have made of them.  They serve in the military, they are firefighters, entrepreneurs, etc. living the American dream, then so be it.  If they are sponges on our system, let's give them a different path.  If we are legalizing some, let's stop the illegal voting of the others and give some a path home.  This should be a great opportunity to clean up the mess and take the issue off the table.

Breitbart story aside, the politics of this might have flipped. Trump has dangled a carrot.  Dreamers have heard the offer of legalization and citizenship.  They like that and will not be forgiving of Schumer and the gang if they don't take all of Trump's demands to get it, secure the border, end chain migration, convert to point system like Canada, and so on.

A recent poll says Americans want the level of LEGAL immigration cut in half.  I doubt if that goes unnoticed by Trump.  Half the legal immigration and near zero illegal immigration would be a good deal for the country right now.  As much as I like the new ISIS and al Qaida settlements in Minnesota, enough is enough.

ccp

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1312 on: January 26, 2018, 09:05:41 AM »
"As reported, the immigration offer is terrible, but I highly doubt that is the final deal."

Could all be fake news. OTOH if true it seems stupid.  We just won the shutdown debate and now make offers that gives up the farm??

God forbid we try to "make nice" and cave again the same we have been for decades........ would not put it past the warriors on our side who fight with their tails between their legs too often.



ccp

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1315 on: January 26, 2018, 02:26:52 PM »
"But there’s another possibility. That possibility is simple: Trump already knows Democrats aren’t going to negotiate. He’s therefore posturing for public consumption by demonstrating how much “love” he can show illegal immigrants; the next step will be to tell the public that Democrats care so little about illegal immigrants and border security that they’re willing to forego amnesty for 1.8 million illegal immigrants in order to leave the border wide open. It’s not a bad public argument, so long as you know that Trump isn’t actually attempting to cut a deal here."

How can anyone in with their head screwed on straight can believe this?

suppose the Dems do take the deal? 

Like Mike Savage said today Daca people are never goin to vote R, so why play their game.?  and !


Crafty_Dog

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Tucker Carlson
« Reply #1316 on: January 26, 2018, 11:15:18 PM »

ccp

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A deal the WSJ would love
« Reply #1317 on: January 27, 2018, 05:16:25 AM »
It might have been Tucker last night (or was it Ingrahm?)  who brought up the point that Lindsey Graham is probably the worst GOP person to be negotiating for immigration enforcement.

Why in the world does the GOP send up the liberal on immigration Graham to negotiate ?   I suppose because he is a leftist on immigration a deal would be made vs a hard liner  but that aside, his being there is assinine.

I have not checked but I am sure the WSJ loves the WH immigration proposal.  I see Rubio likes it......... :cry:



DougMacG

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Re: VA Sanctuary County
« Reply #1319 on: January 29, 2018, 06:35:36 AM »
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/28/virginian-immigration-hawks-outraged-fairfax-countys-gives-illegal-alien-criminals-sanctuary/

A strange deal and a strange reaction to it. Making so-called dreamers citizens makes them second-class citizens (?) because they cannot automatically bring in as citizens the people who brought them here illegally.

Did Trump do this just to get them to turn it down? Who do dreamers blame if they end up with no deal?

Even if you like the deal, there are a number of things missing in it.

In business law, an offer is no longer valid once the other side has turned it down. Stop treating these people as a group and process their applications individually on a case-by-case basis under a merit-based system and  under current law where those turned down must leave.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/report-over-500-criminal-dreamers-ordered-deported-are-still-in-us/article/2646671
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 07:59:03 AM by DougMacG »

ccp

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Sorry I am not sympathetic for her
« Reply #1320 on: January 29, 2018, 06:59:57 AM »
The father broke the law twice and stuck it in our faces with false ID.  She could have gotten into Yale as a Mexican too. 
Too bad Trump could not use this as an example of why we should be enforcing immigration laws:

ttps://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/daughter-two-time-deportee-will-special-guest-state-union-201108421.html

DougMacG

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Immigration issues In the US, Decriminalizing public defecation
« Reply #1321 on: January 29, 2018, 10:29:41 AM »
Did you know this is an immigration issue?  We are decriminalizing defecation so that it won't be used as a crime in deportation.

In other words, people from shithole places are making the US a sh*thole.  Instead of taking the best, we are lowering the bar.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/01/to_protect_illegals_from_deportation_denver_decriminalizes_pooping_on_the_pavement.html
http://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/certain-crimes-will-now-have-lighter-sentences-in-denver/442367895

ccp

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LOL look at the SW
« Reply #1322 on: January 30, 2018, 01:35:22 PM »

G M

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#defend dreamers
« Reply #1323 on: January 31, 2018, 10:07:06 AM »
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 10:09:18 AM by G M »

Crafty_Dog

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DougMacG

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Re: Immigration issues, Trump's DACA offer viewed from the Left
« Reply #1325 on: February 01, 2018, 07:59:30 AM »
"Trump’s immigration ‘compromise’ is a trick"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trumps-immigration-compromise-is-a-trick/2018/01/29/e629d2d6-0539-11e8-8777-2a059f168dd2_story.html?utm_term=.a781973ba3c4
------------

Her point is that DACA / Dreamer legalization and citizenship has enough support to pass on its own.  Why should Trump get all these other things with it?

My thought, why are we still dealing with people in (electoral) groups.  Some 'dreamers' deserve an upgrade, some deserve arrest, some deserve deportation.   I would upgrade all the ones that they describe, served in the military, live their whole life here without breaking our laws, came through no fault of their own, self supporting, not living off the dole, etc.  Use the merit based system now, where we have some information on them.

The flip side of her argument is, why do we need to give any illegals a gift in order to call for securing our borders.  That should stand alone and their existence and residence here proves that the border as it sits has not been secure - and people are still over-staying their visas.  Chain migration is wrong and the legal lottery is wrong.  Those issues are popular and also could be passed on their own, if not for the power the party has over its representatives.

Is Trump's a good deal (for us)?  I don't know, but since Democrats won't take it, it flips the blame on the issue.

ccp

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1326 on: February 01, 2018, 08:31:27 AM »
Doug,

The WAsh compost article from the Far LEft millineal makes no sense.

She states the Dreamers to citizens is a no brainer and everyone is for it and therefore it is a given.  So why is Trump's offer a compromise?

He just tripled it to 2 million - that is why!

And it is a gift to give them citizenship , especially so when they are here breaking out laws . 

And what about their families who brought them here illegally ?  We all know they will be next in line to cry on CNN .

And what about relatives of those born here of those who took advantage of our law that anyone born on US soil is an automatic citizen .  How more millions and of course all their families are we talking about . Probably 30- to 40 % of California! 

DougMacG

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1327 on: February 01, 2018, 10:35:00 AM »
Doug,
The WAsh compost article from the Far LEft millennial makes no sense.
She states the Dreamers to citizens is a no brainer and everyone is for it and therefore it is a given.  So why is Trump's offer a compromise?
He just tripled it to 2 million - that is why!
And it is a gift to give them citizenship , especially so when they are here breaking out laws .  
And what about their families who brought them here illegally ?  We all know they will be next in line to cry on CNN .
And what about relatives of those born here of those who took advantage of our law that anyone born on US soil is an automatic citizen .  How more millions and of course all their families are we talking about . Probably 30- to 40 % of California!  

ccp, I agree you and we had an election on this.  Further, the 'dreamers' militant involvement in their own negotiations makes this situation uglier, makes it clear there will be no thankfulness or political benefit for helping them.

I posted the compost article just to try to understand why Democrats didn't jump all over a deal we see as a giveaway.  They want 'dreamers' legalized for nothing in exchange and they want ALL illegals legalized and NOT fix the system that let them in.

Note that when they controlled the entire Executive Branch, the House of Representatives and had 60 votes in the Senate, they didn't do it!  Now they don't so Democrat hardlining should easily be exposed as posing for political advantage rather than trying to help a mostly sympathetic group.

This issue defines a slippery slope argument.  If you enforce the law as it is - you are racist.  If you legalize 800,000 - you must do 2 million.  If you do 2 million - you must do  12 million, 60 million.  If you legalize - you must make them citizens.  And if you give all of that - they want Puerto Rico to be a state.  Then they would leave the border open, get it back as an issue and do it all again.

All that said, it doesn't define what Trump or Republicans should do now.  He can't just say no; he has to offer something so offered them all of DACA in exchange for all he needs on immigration.  Trump bought time on DACA.  He exposed and shrunk Schumer with the shutdown mess.  He has dangled a deal that solves it for 'dreamers' and solves it for border security for now.  It ends chain migration which is BIG.  It leaves all other illegals wanting theirs, so that issue stays alive for Democrats, but it removes their leverage on the issue because the security side and lottery and the chain migration issues have all been addressed.

Still missing:  Ending the anchor baby misinterpretation of law, defeating the sanctuaries and dealing with the rest of the illegals.

Maybe we should legalize one person for each that we deport based on the merit system.  Then when we get through the best of the DACA and the worst of the criminals it will be the illegal and Hispanic communities that holler stop.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 11:08:03 AM by DougMacG »

ccp

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no compromise
« Reply #1328 on: February 01, 2018, 03:49:33 PM »
Hi Doug,


All good thoughts and points you make

My feeling is we should be very tough with immigration
I can live with the illegals who are brought here as kids if verified and they are not criminals

but that is it.

Like you point out most illegals are NEVER going to appreciate any amnesty is any way where they will vote Rebup. The crats will never give up shoving there open borders schtick down our throats so why compromise at all.

It will not placate them and they will immediately grab for more like they always do.  I say no compromise , except some window dressing for show and maybe some independent votes because as ALWAYS with the LEFT there really never is any compromise.

G M

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1329 on: February 01, 2018, 05:52:22 PM »
The default dem position on immigration is absolute open borders now and forever.

DougMacG

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1330 on: February 02, 2018, 07:57:14 AM »
The default dem position on immigration is absolute open borders now and forever.

Right.  This was exposed in the 2016 Presidential debate.  Immigration was the issue that allegedly what made DT an extremist.  But when Hillary's turn came, she expressed not one word of support for securing the border or having any limit on legal or illegal administration.

Compare that with responsible things President Clinton said in his SOTU, or even the comprehensive bill including both security and limits supported by all Dems in 2013.

The contrast on this issue between Trump and Hillary couldn't have been more stark and Trump won the election.

DougMacG

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Re: Immigration issues, Americans are Dreamers too!
« Reply #1331 on: February 02, 2018, 08:09:41 AM »
I have complained that liberals are stealing our language.  The term "Dreamers" is a perfect example of that.  "Dreamers" include great people, thugs and gang members,  why are they one group?  And, as ccp would ask, why are their dreams more important than ours?

...especially clear in his most memorable line, "Americans are Dreamers, too."
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/02/02/the_president_presses_his_advantage_on_immigration_136164.html

I cringed when I heard that.  Trump was ignoring or forgetting the rules of political correctness.  Scott Rasmussen took it differently:

In just four words, a president not known for his eloquence turned years of Democratic branding and messaging against them. Trump brazenly and succinctly re-defined the public imagery surrounding the term Dreamers in a way that infuriated the political left. Topher Spiro of the liberal Center for American Progress, called it "intentionally divisive." CNN reported that others thought the line "marginalized immigrants."

DougMacG

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Re: Immigration issues, Look Back at Democrats in 2013
« Reply #1332 on: February 02, 2018, 08:20:27 AM »
While y'all were getting on Marco Rubio for being a traitor, siding with schumer, look what they got all Democrats to vote for, Durbin to end chain migration, Schumer to end the lottery, Elizabeth Warren to secure the border?  Oh Lordy!

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/2013-all-senate-dems-voted-to-build-border-fence-kill-visa-lottery-end-chain-migration/article/2647518

2013: All Senate Dems voted to build border fence, kill visa lottery, end chain migration

All Senate Democrats united with two independent senators in 2013 to push through a comprehensive immigration reform plan to build a border fence and end “chain migration” and the visa lottery, positions they now oppose because they are in President Trump’s immigration package.

Led by Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, 52 Democrats and two independents (also Democrats) OK’d the legislation.



It called for “no fewer than 700 miles” of border fencing.  It also included a section detailing the end of the diversity visa, a lottery for green cards meant to diversify the U.S. immigrant population.

List of senators who voted for immigration reform in 2013.
And it rewrote rules for which relatives of legal immigrants could come in, the so-called “chain migration” blueprint, to limit the numbers.

The provisions that were included in the legislation sponsored by Schumer, S.744 - Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act, are very similar to those Trump is now pushing.

The bill ultimately failed in the House.  But it it did win in the Senate, 68-32. All no votes were Republican.

« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 08:35:51 AM by DougMacG »

ccp

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Well well well we have a Black Democrat who spoke the truth
« Reply #1333 on: February 02, 2018, 08:54:01 AM »

Duh!!! wonder why Barbara Jordan wanted to stop the immigration BS - duh.  Compare her knowing it hurts Backs to the fools in today's CBC (no not complete blood count):

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/white-house-honors-barbara-jordan-a-democrat-who-shared-trumps-immigration-views/article/2646173

Crafty_Dog

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DougMacG

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Re: Well well well we have a Black Democrat who spoke the truth
« Reply #1335 on: February 02, 2018, 02:04:18 PM »
How times have changed.  Immigrants use to compete for jobs and now they compete for program benefits, and jobs.  In either case, black men will be the next group to break, in part, from the liberal bloc.  Not black women yet, as a group they are incorrigibly liberal.  Same goes for legal Hispanics. ; some are receptive to conservative principles. Some part of your vote is based on economics and your own family's best interests.  New entrants compete for jobs, benefits, housing.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1336 on: February 02, 2018, 02:28:12 PM »
"Not black women yet, as a group they are incorrigibly liberal."

I have been toying with the idea of developing a political comedy act.  As part of that I have been doing some casual market research (i.e. bouncing certain jokes off of people I interact with as part of my day)

Far and away the group that responds most favorably to this joke is black women, with black men a close second:

Q:  How did Bill and Hillary Clinton meet?

A: Dating the same girl in law school.

DougMacG

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Immigrants cost taxpayers 56% more for health care than native born
« Reply #1337 on: February 02, 2018, 04:03:14 PM »
https://finance.townhall.com/columnists/frankvernuccio/2018/01/31/the-impact-of-immigrants-on-state-medicaid-budgets-n2442392?utm_source=thdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl

By 2013, 25 percent of immigrants and their children were on Medicaid, compared to 16 percent of natives and their children.”

Those entering the U.S. legally are required to be screened for infectious disease.   [Those entering illegally are not.]

“Illegal immigration may expose Americans to diseases that have been virtually eradicated, but are highly contagious, as in the case of TB […] Immigrants coming here have been documented as having communicable diseases such as tuberculosis and swine flu […] individuals coming in contact with people with these diseases are at risk of becoming infected. Those most vulnerable to contracting illnesses from illegals are the first responders such as the Border Patrol agents. In turn, they may pass diseases and conditions on to their children, spouses, seniors and those with whom they come in contact who have compromised immune systems […] It isn’t the diseases that we have been vaccinated against that are the most concerning, but ones like TB, which have developed multiple drug resistance, or tropical diseases such as Dengue fever that doctors may have difficulty diagnosing and for which there is no treatment.”

G M

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Re: Immigrants cost taxpayers 56% more for health care than native born
« Reply #1338 on: February 02, 2018, 04:17:35 PM »
https://finance.townhall.com/columnists/frankvernuccio/2018/01/31/the-impact-of-immigrants-on-state-medicaid-budgets-n2442392?utm_source=thdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl

By 2013, 25 percent of immigrants and their children were on Medicaid, compared to 16 percent of natives and their children.”

Those entering the U.S. legally are required to be screened for infectious disease.   [Those entering illegally are not.]

“Illegal immigration may expose Americans to diseases that have been virtually eradicated, but are highly contagious, as in the case of TB […] Immigrants coming here have been documented as having communicable diseases such as tuberculosis and swine flu […] individuals coming in contact with people with these diseases are at risk of becoming infected. Those most vulnerable to contracting illnesses from illegals are the first responders such as the Border Patrol agents. In turn, they may pass diseases and conditions on to their children, spouses, seniors and those with whom they come in contact who have compromised immune systems […] It isn’t the diseases that we have been vaccinated against that are the most concerning, but ones like TB, which have developed multiple drug resistance, or tropical diseases such as Dengue fever that doctors may have difficulty diagnosing and for which there is no treatment.”

Legal immigrants have to be screened for TB and have a medical exam prior to immigration to the US.

ccp

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1339 on: February 02, 2018, 06:17:23 PM »
Legal immigrants have to be screened for TB and have a medical exam prior to immigration to the US.

yes .   I have done the TB tests for some . 
many come up positive for the TB screen because in other countries they give BCG a vaccine that can prevent TB

so we get CXR
but there is a relatively new blood test that is really a sea change in screening though to my knowledge it is expensive

Crafty_Dog

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Glick on the Isreali Wall and its lessons for America
« Reply #1340 on: February 04, 2018, 12:36:09 PM »
http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2018/02/01/caroline-glick-israel-can-teach-america-dealing-illegal-aliens-wall-deport/


This in particular caught my eye:

"Israel’s experience is instructive on two counts.

"First, border security works. The combination of legislation and the border wall ended infiltration by illegals almost instantaneously.

"Second, as Israel’s current situation indicates, champions of illegal immigration have no intention of making any deal. They are not fighting for illegal aliens because they want to make the world a better place. They are championing their cause because they want to make Israel a different place. And since most Israelis like Israel the way it is, there is no common ground to be found."




Crafty_Dog

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75% of Mexican immigrants are receiving welfare?
« Reply #1344 on: February 10, 2018, 09:53:04 AM »
Second post

Tucker Carlson, whom I think is a responsible player, cited this number last night-- can we find a proper citation for it?

G M

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Re: 75% of Mexican immigrants are receiving welfare?
« Reply #1345 on: February 10, 2018, 10:53:33 AM »
Second post

Tucker Carlson, whom I think is a responsible player, cited this number last night-- can we find a proper citation for it?

https://cis.org/Report/Welfare-Use-Legal-and-Illegal-Immigrant-Households

But they vote democrat at even higher rates, so we have that going for us...

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Immigration issues
« Reply #1346 on: February 10, 2018, 11:32:55 AM »
Thank you very much GM!

DougMacG

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