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Messages - Howling Dog

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1
Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Music
« on: February 14, 2009, 04:54:58 PM »
Woof Nonkosherdog! Thanks for the memories 8-)
I got to see Frank Zappa in the late 70's at CLevelandS public Hall.....

One of my all tme Favorites and IMO one of if not the greatest guitar players ever.....(among many)
I still have a lot of his original albums in my collection.......
If memory serves me correctly a man that also sported a IQ 175...
Fun to watch the clips......I'am gonna have to visit you tube soon!
                                              TG

2
Politics & Religion / Re: The Obama Phenomena
« on: June 19, 2008, 11:59:14 AM »
SB Mig, Take your last post on Obama and apply those same questions to Mcain and what say ye?

I honestly think you find very little scandal, charecter flaws or skeletons in his closet.......
Not that he's impeccable, but so far the biggest thing I've heard negative about him is that he has a bad temper :|
Yea there are some questionable right wing extremist pastors that try to align themselves with him.....the thing is though, is that he has no personal association to them.......Please though do expound on the negatvies that you know of on John Mcain......
                                                           TG

3
Politics & Religion / Re: Energy Politics & Science
« on: May 29, 2008, 08:54:21 AM »
Woof, I'am reading them, but at this point not feeling much better........Esp after the WSJ article posted today. :|
Thats not too encouraging......though it could be if some real and positive action by our politicans would take place........Not holding my breath for that.......
                                                           Hostage to oil/ gov.

4
Politics & Religion / Re: Energy Politics & Science
« on: May 28, 2008, 02:15:20 PM »
GM, I would be one to fall into the category of "no grasp of history ,economics, or geopolitics"...esp when it comes to oil and its production in this country.
I'am not insinuating that this guy is on to something........
Its really hard for me though, to deal with the idea that we have allowed ourselves into the situation that has now evolved.......and why did it take so long to happen?
Talk about feeling "Bled out" :|......
                                                             TG

5
Politics & Religion / Re: Energy Politics & Science
« on: May 28, 2008, 01:37:06 PM »
Woof GM,  :lol:
Quote
Ok, I watched the first 45-50 minutes of this drivel. At least it confirmed that my tin foil detector is calibrated.

What held you 45-50 minutes? Crafty onley made it 4:30.....(light weight :lol:)


I think the thing that gets me the most is that we (the u.s.) has the oil, to make us independent from foriegn oil (or much less dependent).....but we don't get it or go after it.....whats wrong with that picture?
I just have a hard time buying the "Oh its the liberal lefty's that won't lets us get it" babble......(nonsense)

When did that ever stop a good oil man :roll: (speaking of Bush/family and him doing what he wants) :wink:
You have to admit there is something funny about, allowing our enemies to hold our ass to the gas lamp.....why would we want to give them that kind of power.
Lets be honest......oil rules the world.
                                                              TG

6
Politics & Religion / Re: Energy Politics & Science
« on: May 27, 2008, 03:10:00 PM »
Woof, Guro Crafty,
Quote
I got about 4:30 into it and , , , that's as far as I can go.

 :-D Fair enough.... I did read where Russia has drilled that deep, but not for oil but to study the earth, reportedly for "oil research reasons".

I guess we have to let this thing play out. Obviously we will never see pre 2000 prices again.....
I do not believe that demand is driving the price......at least not at the rate we are seeing.
I'am more inclined to beleive speculators are driving price......
I also think that it will be sometime before we recover and balance out.......
                                                   TG

7
Politics & Religion / Re: Energy Politics & Science
« on: May 27, 2008, 10:54:45 AM »
Woof, I'am really hoping to get some personal comments from the video posted by Doug and does not get buried beneath a mega list of articles and writings.... I rarely come down to this forum becuase its impossible for me to keep up with all the articles to read.

Crafty, and all others I know you guys are well read.....and would just like to hear what you have to say?
My tin foil comments were directed back at GM's quote:
Quote
My tin foil hat alarm is going off, however I'll watch the video before rendering a more firm opinion.
Meant in a light hearted manner and ceratinly not directed towards anyone.....esp not Crafty.....
I just added his name at the end of the sentence hoping to get his opinon.
Quote
There again take off your tin foil hat for a moment and give us your take/s on the video please......Crafty?

I'am getting really paraniod on what I say on the net.....that it does NOT get taken wrongly. :lol: :|
                                                            TG

8
Politics & Religion / Re: Energy Politics & Science
« on: May 27, 2008, 09:03:49 AM »
GM, and all the other brain trusts that rule this portion of the forum.........I would really appreciate your comments on what the video/man says.
I just sat thru the entire video and found it not onley intresting but quite believeable.

I think I saw that gas in Saudi Arabia is 50 cents a gal. Why are we paying so much for foriegn oil when we have resources of our own?

There again take off your tin foil hat for a moment and give us your take/s on the video please......Crafty?
                                                                              TG

9
Politics & Religion / Re: Homeland Security
« on: May 17, 2008, 02:22:39 PM »
That is an intresting relation between Nazi's and Jihadis....Seems to make sense...not sure they could live well together....but anyway, it is understood.
Is the hatred for America related to our freedom or our alliance with Israel...or both?

Quote
however the Shia side of the global jihad is surging forward with little to stop them at this time.

Expound please? I'am thinking Sadr and Iran/Iraq....but see little threat to the U.S. with the exception of our being on their playing field in Iraq.......which was not their playing field until we made it that way.

Are they intrested in Terrorism on a global scale?

10
Politics & Religion / Re: Homeland Security
« on: May 17, 2008, 01:56:52 PM »
Quote
There is a historical alliance between the nazis and jihadis that still thrives today.

Now thats a match I do not understand..... One being Racist and one being religous........

I will admit one thing.......things have been quite....Lets hope they stay that way.

Though my understanding of terrorism is that terrorism uses time to its advantage and the willingness to wait for the opertune moment, is a attribute to terrorism.
Take Bin Laden for example, he is showing a tremendous amount of restraint and not trying to force anything......He makes very little noise these days.
Yet we all know hes there......
                                                           

11
Politics & Religion / Re: Homeland Security
« on: May 17, 2008, 11:02:29 AM »
Woof GM, I agree with you on this and find this really hard to prevent.
I personally would like to see more reasources being spent at home than abroad....but anyway....

Would you include Timothy Mcvie(sp) the Oklahoma city fed bldg. bomber in this group of possible terrorists?
                                                           TG

12
Politics & Religion / Re: Homeland Security
« on: May 17, 2008, 10:17:42 AM »
Woof, Ok.....I was just wondering if these would be fake passports........Or why we would issue passports to terrorists........
                                                                   TG

13
Politics & Religion / Re: Homeland Security
« on: May 17, 2008, 07:00:29 AM »
Scannning the recent posts this caught my eye.......

Quote
IMHO, the next major terror attack CONUS will be, at least in part from jihadis holding US/UK/EU passports.


 9/11 may have been plannned in some afghan cave some where.....It was actually hatched  out and done pretty much from within the U.S. pretty much American made(except the players) ..........So I'am pretty much in agreement.

My question is How is it then prevented?
                                                                          TG

14
Politics & Religion / Re: The left's family values
« on: October 06, 2007, 07:22:34 PM »
woof, I admit to being a little perplexed by this whole "festival" thing. How is this not breaking a bunch of public indeceny laws?
Not onley too offensive for Miller......but I'am sure too offensive  for all but the most bizzare.

Rog, I got to tell you after all the rap you fed me about Christians , and how they need to keep their beliefs to themselves and in their own homes and all that happy stuff.....then you go out and advocate for this garbage.......
I'am more than a little disappointed that your not more tolerant to christians.
                                                        TG

15
Politics & Religion / Re: The left's family values
« on: October 06, 2007, 10:52:38 AM »
Rog, After seeing the pictures(gag) of the festival. Can you honestly say its appropriate for a toddler to view this kind of behavior?
Regardless of weather its  homo sex or hetero.....I think this is WAYYYYY too much for a toddler to view live sex acts.

Of course then I suppose if your looking to condition a childs mind into thinking this kind of thing is appropritate behaviour, then starting the younger with the mind control would probably yeild best results.
Then again thats why I'am against teaching "gay is ok" to school age children.....so its just my views.
                                                   TG

16
Politics & Religion / Re: The left's family values
« on: October 05, 2007, 03:47:18 AM »
Not Cool GM!!! I nearly puked eating my breakfast!
                                                 TG

17
Politics & Religion / Re: The left's family values
« on: October 04, 2007, 11:21:09 AM »
Woof Rog, SF may very well be a very liberal city, but I also think it has its share of "regular" folks as well.
Several were named in the article expressing their outrage that someone would use their position of employment as a political platform.
Do you agree with a person using their job as a politcal platform? After all I asssume the tax payers are paying her salary.

So I don't necassarily buy your argument that she was doing the will of the people by banning the U.S. marines from shooting their vid.
Did you watch the Vid clip hyperlinked with the post?
Why would you think this was a deliberete set up, to bash SF, is there not military bases already in the SF area?
Alemeda comes immediatly to mind. I think that argument is just a cop out.
Do you agree with what she did?
Quote
I hear a lot of talk from you guys about how mean and intolerant the "Islamofasicts" are in their countries, but how much different are your attitudes when you're faced with something that makes you a little uncomfortable?   
I think it would be fair to say.....right back at you...concerning the marine drill team and the treatment they recieved.
Do you support the troops? How about performing arts? these guys are a non combat unit that performs drills....actually quite impressive to watch.
Who actually are federal employees. :wink:
I guess tolerence just depends, and goes both ways.
Bottom line Rog , do they have as much right to do their thing as the homos do in all their parades ect?
                                                                  TG

18
Politics & Religion / Re: The left's family values
« on: October 03, 2007, 01:40:09 PM »
Hmmmm....tolerant?  I think not.......SHAMEFUL? Why yes.....yes it is.........Rog what say ye? Condon or condem?
                                                      TG

19
Politics & Religion / Re: Iraq
« on: September 21, 2007, 08:12:08 PM »
Feds target Blackwater in weapons probe By MATTHEW LEE, Associated Press Writer
26 minutes ago
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070922/ap_on_go_co/us_blackwater_probe

WASHINGTON - Federal prosecutors are investigating whether employees of the private security firm Blackwater USA illegally smuggled into Iraq weapons that may have been sold on the black market and ended up in the hands of a U.S.-designated terrorist organization, officials said Friday.

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The U.S. Attorney's Office in Raleigh, N.C., is handling the investigation with help from Pentagon and State Department auditors, who have concluded there is enough evidence to file charges, the officials told The Associated Press. Blackwater is based in Moyock, N.C.

The U.S. attorney for the eastern district of North Carolina, George Holding, and a spokeswoman for Blackwater did not return calls seeking comment Friday. Pentagon and State Department spokesmen declined to comment.

Officials with knowledge of the case said it is active, although at an early stage. They spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the matter, which has heightened since 11 Iraqis were killed Sunday in a shooting involving Blackwater contractors protecting a U.S. diplomatic convoy in Baghdad.

The officials could not say whether the investigation would result in indictments, how many Blackwater employees are involved or if the company itself, which has won hundreds of millions of dollars in government security contracts since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, is under scrutiny.

In Saturday's editions, The News & Observer of Raleigh reported that two former Blackwater employees — Kenneth Wayne Cashwell of Virginia Beach, Va., and William Ellsworth "Max" Grumiaux of Clemmons, N.C. — are cooperating with federal investigators.

Cashwell and Grumiaux pleaded guilty in early 2007 to possession of stolen firearms that had been shipped in interstate or foreign commerce, and aided and abetted another in doing so, according to court papers viewed by The Associated Press. In their plea agreements, which call for a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine, the men agreed to testify in any future proceedings.

Calls to defense attorneys were not immediately returned Friday evening, and calls to the telephone listings for both men also were not returned.

The News & Observer, citing unidentified sources, reported that the probe was looking at whether Blackwater had shipped unlicensed automatic weapons and military goods to Iraq without a license.

The paper's report that the company itself was under investigation could not be confirmed by the AP.

Meanwhile, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice ordered a review of security practices for U.S. diplomats in Iraq following a deadly incident involving Blackwater USA guards protecting an embassy convoy.

Rice's announcement came as the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad resumed limited diplomatic convoys under the protection of Blackwater outside the heavily fortified Green Zone after a suspension because of the weekend incident in that city.

In the United States, officials in Washington said the smuggling investigation grew from internal Pentagon and State Department inquiries into U.S. weapons that had gone missing in Iraq. It gained steam after Turkish authorities protested to the U.S. in July that they had seized American arms from the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKK, rebels.

The Turks provided serial numbers of the weapons to U.S. investigators, said a Turkish official.

The Pentagon said in late July it was looking into the Turkish complaints and a U.S. official said FBI agents had traveled to Turkey in recent months to look into cases of missing U.S. weapons in Iraq.

Investigators are determining whether the alleged Blackwater weapons match those taken from the PKK.

It was not clear if Blackwater employees suspected of selling to the black market knew the weapons they allegedly sold to middlemen might wind up with the PKK. If they did, possible charges against them could be more serious than theft or illegal weapons sales, officials said.

The PKK, which is fighting for an independent Kurdistan, is banned in Turkey, which has a restive Kurdish population and is considered a "foreign terrorist organization" by the State Department. That designation bars U.S. citizens or those in U.S. jurisdictions from supporting the group in any way.

The North Carolina investigation was first brought to light by State Department Inspector General Howard Krongard, who mentioned it, perhaps inadvertently, this week while denying he had improperly blocked fraud and corruption probes in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Krongard was accused in a letter by Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, of politically motivated malfeasance, including refusing to cooperate with an investigation into alleged weapons smuggling by a large, unidentified State Department contractor.

In response, Krongard said in a written statement that he "made one of my best investigators available to help Assistant U.S. Attorneys in North Carolina in their investigation into alleged smuggling of weapons into Iraq by a contractor."

His statement went further than Waxman's letter because it identified the state in which the investigation was taking place. Blackwater is the biggest of the State Department's three private security contractors.

The other two, Dyncorp and Triple Canopy, are based in Washington's northern Virginias suburbs, outside the jurisdiction of the North Carolina's attorneys.


20
Politics & Religion / Re: Iraq
« on: September 19, 2007, 06:32:18 PM »
Rog, Its really simple. Money paid for services rendered.
I agree....they are not"the troops" Though in my opinon they are good employees and do thier job.

Bear in mind they guard all the "Big shots" Both political and military. Seems that alone should earn them some credibility and respect.
Thats why, I think if they have to go they should be retired....and not fired....and esp not a ploitical pawn or sacrifical lamb.
Also as far as the troops go.....lets not forget these guys are former mil. elite......
Surely you can't blame them for getting out of the military and doing similar work for 10x's the pay......
                                                                                   TG

21
Politics & Religion / Re: Iraq
« on: September 19, 2007, 05:25:59 PM »
My concern in the Black water issue is: Maliki is seeking to show his fellow countrymen that he's the boss in Iraq.
Bush and company are eager to also see this happen.
Enter Blackwater.....Sacrifical lamb for "the cause".

I would really be dissmayed to see this happen.......I think for the most part these guys have provided a service and done a job for us bled and died.....I think it would be A shame to cut thier throats for "the cause" (But think it VERY possible to see happen)
If they have to go let them go on good terms.
Not with a boot up the arse kicked to the curb.......
I agree Guro Crafty, this is a hard one to read....things are sketchy and pretty grey......
                                                                          TG

22
Politics & Religion / Re: Iraq
« on: September 19, 2007, 02:03:12 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070919/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Iraqi leader disputes Blackwater account By ROBERT H. REID, Associated Press Writer
15 minutes ago
 


BAGHDAD - Iraq's prime minister Wednesday disputed Blackwater USA's version of a weekend shooting that left at least 11 people dead, saying he cannot tolerate "the killing of our citizens in cold blood."
 
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki suggested that the U.S. Embassy should find another company to protect its diplomats.

Blackwater, which provides security for American diplomats and other civilian officials in Iraq, insisted its contractors were responding to gunfire from insurgents.

But more witnesses came forward saying they saw Blackwater security guards firing at civilians in the Mansour district of western Baghdad on Sunday. Two witnesses recalled hearing an explosion before the gunfire, suggesting a bomb may have targeted the American convoy, prompting the guards to start shooting.

American and Iraqi officials announced they would form a joint committee to try to reconcile widely differing versions of Sunday's incident. Conflicting accounts were circulating among Iraqi officials themselves.

Land travel by U.S. diplomats and other civilian officials outside the fortified Green Zone remained suspended for a second day after Iraqi authorities ordered Blackwater to stop working as a separate Iraqi investigation continues.

The Moyock, N.C.-based firm is the main provider of bodyguards and armed escorts for American government civilian employees in Iraq.

U.S. Embassy spokeswoman Mirembe Nantongo refused to offer any version of what happened Sunday at busy Nisoor Square. She told reporters the contractors involved in the incident were still in Iraq.

But al-Maliki spoke out sharply against Blackwater, saying the shooting was "the seventh of its kind" involving the company, "and these violations should be dealt with."

"We will not tolerate the killing of our citizens in cold blood," al-Maliki told reporters. "The work of this company has been stopped in order to know the reasons."

Al-Maliki said the shootings had generated such "widespread anger and hatred" that it would be "in everyone's interest if the embassy used another company while the company is suspended."

Blackwater spokeswoman Anne E. Tyrrell said in a statement late Monday that its employees acted "lawfully and appropriately" in response to an armed attack against a State Department convoy.

"The `civilians' reportedly fired upon by Blackwater professionals were in fact armed enemies and Blackwater personnel returned defensive fire," she said. "Blackwater regrets any loss of life but this convoy was violently attacked by armed insurgents, not civilians, and our people did their job to defend human life."

But al-Maliki said Blackwater's version "is not accurate" and that the company "should be held accountable for such a violation."

Iraqi officials offered several versions of what happened. One official said the Blackwater convoy got stuck in traffic and the guards began firing and throwing stun grenades to clear the vehicles.

Another official said men in a passing car shot at the convoy and the Blackwater guards responded with heavy fire, hitting civilians. Others said a car bomb exploded and the guards opened fire.

All the officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not supposed to release the information. Some accounts spoke of a child being killed, others that the infant was wounded.

Two Iraqi witnesses said they saw only Blackwater firing, although U.S. officials said Monday that gunfire had disabled one of the American vehicles.

"Several SUVs were passing from Nisoor Square when an explosion took place. I couldn't tell whether it was a roadside bomb or a car bomb," said Imad Mansour Abid, 35. "This was followed by heavy fire by guards of the security vehicles."

He said the shots were fired "at streets in the area where civilians and passers-by were moving. The firing lasted about 10 to 20 minutes."

Suhard Mirza, a hairdresser who works in the area, said she heard a "distant explosion" and raced outside to see what was happening.

"I saw four-wheel-drive vehicles opening fire randomly on people and civilian cars in the area," she said. "After five minutes police and ambulances reached the area to evacuate casualties."

Eager to contain the crisis, the State Department said Wednesday a joint U.S.-Iraqi commission will be formed.

The size and composition of the commission have yet to be determined but its members are charged with assessing the results of both U.S. and Iraqi investigations of Sunday's incident, reaching a common conclusion about what happened and recommending possible changes to the way in which the embassy and its contractors handle security, the State Department said.

Also Wednesday, the U.S. military said an American soldier was killed the day before in an attack in southern Baghdad. Another soldier died Wednesday of non-battle related causes in Salahuddin province, the military said.

The Iraqi Cabinet decided Tuesday to review the status of all foreign security companies in the wake of the Mansour shooting.

The Interior Ministry had said Monday it had lifted Blackwater's license and ordered its 1,000 employees to leave the country. The next day, Iraqi officials said Blackwater's operations were merely suspended pending an investigation.

Some Iraqi officials said privately that it would be difficult to order Blackwater out of the country because the Americans rely so heavily on it.

Iraqis have long resented the presence of thousands of armed foreign security guards, whose numbers swelled after violence escalated in late 2003 months after the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime.

With too few U.S. and coalition forces available to maintain order, governments and private companies hired thousands of security guards to protect their operations from Sunni and Shiite extremists and criminal gangs.

Blackwater, whose convoys of SUVs careen through the streets with weapons displayed, has been singled out for much of the criticism — in part because of its high profile operations.

"Blackwater has a reputation," said James Sammons, a former Australian Special Air Service commander who now works for the British-based AKE Group, which also provides security in Iraq.

"If you want over-over-the-top, gun-toting security with high profile and all the bells and whistles," he said, "Blackwater are the people you are going to go with."


23
Politics & Religion / Re: Iraq
« on: September 19, 2007, 03:46:23 AM »
Woof Guro Crafty, Yes I did read it. Thank you for posting it. Sorry again for the remark.
Do you have any personal thoughts on the incident?
GM, says the contratctors aren't concerned........
Being ex military.....I still don't hold that confidence........expendable keeps comming to mind.
                                                                        TG

24
Politics & Religion / Re: Iraq
« on: September 18, 2007, 08:02:20 PM »
Woof Guro Crafty, Not at all an inference...........sorry.....I just want to hear you guys thoughts on this story.
I would have thought to read  posts from yuor sources......just a little disappointed there wasn't anything up on the forum concering this.
I think the revoking of Blackwaters license and the fact that diplomatice travel has been suspended more than just media hype.
I also think the attack on the convoy near the green zone to be some what significant, at least as far as security purposes go.
Maye Iam wrong.
I really hope that we don't count Blackwater expendable in light of the big picture.
                                                                                 TG

25
Politics & Religion / Re: Iraq
« on: September 18, 2007, 06:58:10 PM »
GM, Blackwater a non story in the big picture?
Please expound on your statement...... Non stroy/big picture leaves much to the immagination.
I wouldn't want to interpret it wrongly.
                                                              TG

26
Politics & Religion / Re: Iraq
« on: September 18, 2007, 06:21:26 PM »
Woof GM, :? I don't get it. What are you getting at on your Yousef/CNN post?
                                                           TG

27
Politics & Religion / Re: Iraq
« on: September 18, 2007, 05:42:20 PM »
C'mon guys...."We seek truth" and I had to go back 3 pages of posts to find anything on Iraq and my Yahoo home page has this story on its front page :|

Am I the onley one who thinks tis a big deal?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070918/ap_on_re_us/us_iraq_embassy

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WASHINGTON - The United States on Tuesday suspended all land travel by U.S. diplomats and other civilian officials throughout Iraq, except in Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone. The move follows a weekend incident involving private security guards protecting a diplomatic convoy in which a number of Iraqi civilians were killed.

In a notice sent to Americans in Iraq, the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad said it had taken the step to review the security of its personnel and possible increased threats to those leaving the Green Zone while accompanied by such security details.

"In light of a serious security incident involving a U.S. embassy protective detail in the Mansour District of Baghdad, the embassy has suspended official U.S. government civilian ground movements outside the International Zone (IZ) and throughout Iraq," the notice said.

"This suspension is in effect in order to assess mission security and procedures, as well as a possible increased threat to personnel traveling with security details outside the International Zone," said the notice, a copy of which was provided to The Associated Press by the State Department in Washington.

The notice did not say when the suspension would expire.

The move came amid uncertainty over the status of the security contractor, Blackwater USA, which was involved in Sunday's incident in which at least 11 people died and provides the bulk of security for U.S. diplomats in Iraq.

Iraqi officials have said they revoked the operating license of the firm but both the company and the State Department say they have received no formal notice of such a step.

State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Tuesday that officials from the agency's Bureau of Diplomatic Security are cooperating with Iraqi authorities in investigating the incident, which has fueled popular Iraqi anger at the private security firms often perceived as operating outside the law.


28
Politics & Religion / Re: Iraq
« on: September 17, 2007, 08:00:09 PM »
Woof, Everyone here knows who make up Blackwater(Ex military elite), and evidently our top brass,military, diplomats and all others, feel that these are the guys to escourt and guard them.
Yet, when attacked....It appears the time has come to stab a brother in the back.......I understand that civilians were killed and the firfight was sustained....for me a 20 minute firefight does seem lengthy........Yet, the scenario I've heard described seems (at least to me) that Blackwater was within their rights in defending the convoy of diplomats.
If this does pan out to be an abandonment of our Gov. of these guys.....I think it quite wrong and am not sure I would want to put my trust in them covering my back(our Gov.)....when I was covering theirs with my life.
Hope this makes sense......Bottom line.......I'am refering to what sounds like a huge back stabbing in the making. plain and simple......
                                                                     TG

29
Politics & Religion / Re: Iraq
« on: September 17, 2007, 04:32:54 PM »
Woof, It was reported on the 6 oclock news that Condi Rice, apologised for Blackwaters actions in an effort to smooth things over. :|
Even though the convoy was attacked? Am I the onley one who finds this odd?
I think this incident will be telling, of how good our relationship with the Iraqi government is.
Apparently by Condi kissing some Butt, its not REALLY that good.
I wonder how well our diplomats and higher powers will get around without the Blackwater escourts........I think this story will be very intresting to watch.
                                                               TG
Will our Gov. sell out Blackwater?

30
Politics & Religion / Re: Interrogation methods
« on: September 16, 2007, 06:58:32 PM »
 :-D

31
Politics & Religion / Re: Interrogation methods
« on: September 16, 2007, 04:50:50 PM »
Woof Guro Crafty, I know the question was adressed to Rog, but I hope you don't mind my taking a stab at it.
It would seem to me with a nuke threat scenario as you describe, that in that particular situation would not onley torture be a appropriate means to resolving the issue, but most likely we would be able to torture on national tv and most of the world would agree it to be ok..........Seems least of all we could make our intentions known up front and positivley stand accountable for our actions.
Which is my main argument.....(Justification and accountability)  that is....
                                                            TG

32
Politics & Religion / Re: Interrogation methods
« on: September 16, 2007, 01:30:44 PM »
Woof, While I agree Sadaam did much worse things than we do. I certainly hope that were not compairing the actions of the U.S. with those of the Sadaam Husien regime, and some how hoping that by being a lesser torturer that we can some how find justification for doing it. :|
I also don't mind our media and the rest of the world holding us to a higher standard....... I think thats the point.
Are we not supposed to be an example and also making Iraq a "better place to live" With the U.S. as the model?

Lets not also forget that Sadaam was ultimatly held accountable and hung by his neck till DEAD,DEAD,DEAD!
What kind of accountablity are we willing to accept?
Teaching this lesson to our kids?
Well Johnny.....Its ok torture people as long as you don't get caught.....but if you do lie about it........or at least claim you were not as bad as Sadaam.......so its OK....... :|
                                                              TG

33
Politics & Religion / Re: Interrogation methods
« on: September 16, 2007, 05:07:28 AM »
GM, Ok ......Now lets contrast a ball python to a Anaconda.......Hmmmm....yep both are constrictors :|

No one said waterboarding was the worst form of torture......just that its torture.

I was going to describe it, as it was described to me, but your posted article states its methods are classified....so for sake.........I won't.
Trust me.......Its way more than just submerging in water as your article implys......thats WAY TOO passive of a description.
I'am thinking more like unconsiousness, choking and puking......plus being revived by being slammed against the wall......but then thats just how we do it to our service men.....who knows how its done to the bad guys.........
Anyway......as for me......Its torture.
I'am pretty much done here......
                                                  TG

34
Politics & Religion / Re: Interrogation methods
« on: September 15, 2007, 07:35:02 PM »
Woof, I agree that one mans torture is another mans walk in the park......and the slope is slippery.
I had no intention on starting any torture debate. I did however disagree that waterboarding IS NOT torture. I still do beleive it to be.
Since my accounts were of a "sea story" variety :lol:..........Lets go with the one that got us here......NAVY!
http://www.faso.navy.mil/sere.html
                                                                                   TG
"Friends at the end of the day"

35
Politics & Religion / Re: Interrogation methods
« on: September 15, 2007, 06:31:25 PM »
Woof Guro Crafty, I guess ,my thought was if your going to do crappy things, at least be willing to take responsibility for your actions?
Does that make sense?
Are you saying? ......If we torture people, we should also lie about it? :|
                                                                                    TG

36
Politics & Religion / Re: Interrogation methods
« on: September 15, 2007, 04:03:43 PM »
GM, As I stated in my previous post SERE school is set up as a simulated POW camp. The goal is to find out not if a prisoner will talk and divulge info, but find out how much a prisoner will talk....everyone talks.
The people that go to SERE school are the ones who in war time have a higher probabilty of being captured. Pilots, aircrew, seals ect.
They are also the ones who have the more valubale information.
When my friends were waterboarded, they were not the ones being interogated.
The person being interogated was a fellow prisoner sitting in the room watching my friend get waterboarded.
Kinda like me torturing your wife while asking you questions.


Just for the fun of it.....Heres another method that, my friends were subject to....Put naked in a steel box at night out in the desert (freezing) taken out of the box in the middle of the night and given a cold shower outside......He told me you could here guys screaming all night.
I could go on.....but, at the end of the week....which is how long the school was, my friend had no idea what day it was, or that the school was over.....he was given a flag and told to raise it with a gun to his head......when he got it up.......he broke down and cried, because it was an American flag.
His job was a combat search and rescue swimmer. (combat sar)
Do you want to go on? I got more :|
                                                                      TG
Yea, I still contend we for a time torture our service men.
Sadism or necessity? You decide.

37
Politics & Religion / Re: Interrogation methods
« on: September 15, 2007, 01:59:10 PM »
Woof GM, Yes I would agree that the U.S. military has been torturing its service men for decades. At least at the SERE school they do.
My friends accounts also are that the "instructors" there "laid hands" on them as well.
Submerging in water is NOT how waterboarding is done and its a little more than"temperarily" Should I describe to you how it was done to my friends?
Would you like for me to also state some of the "other" conditions my former servicemen friends were subject to?

Guro Crafty, My view on it is if weve done it once weve done it 1000 times......besides does just doing it once make it ok?
By the way, I never said I was against using torture......What I'am against is lying about it.
I believe in war times extreme messures are necassary.
                                                                                   TG
A little side note concerening the SERE school.
When I was going through JEST (Jungle survival school) at Cubi point philippines. There was another guy there who reconized one of the Jest instructors as one of the "instructors" from SERE school.
He went after him with a vengence....fortunatly for the "instructor" some of the other guys caught the pissed off guy before he got to the instructor.....So I'am baiscly saying....this guy didn't have the same warm and fuzzy feelinng from his SERE experience as GM's SEAL buddy did. :-D
Yea....we temperarily torture our guys.

38
Politics & Religion / Re: Interrogation methods
« on: September 15, 2007, 10:24:45 AM »
Woof A little further on the Navy SERE school. It is designed to simulate a pow camp.
The idea is to find out not if our service men who may be privy to sensitive info will talk(everyone talks), but how much they will talk.
It was set up according to our former pows accounts of what they experienced during their stays in pow camps.
Just out of curiosity, are Rog and I the onely ones here, who think that waterboarding is torture?
Silence by all other active posters here will lead to an assumption on my part, as a YES we are response. :wink:

So they say......Birds of a feather flock together.... :lol:
                                                                                    TG

39
Politics & Religion / Re: Interrogation methods
« on: September 15, 2007, 06:00:27 AM »
Woof, When I was in the navy I had a couple of friends that went to the navy's SERE school.
They were both Waterboarded there.
I'am pretty sure after listening to their accounts of the experience that they would disagree with GM's asssertion that waterboarding is not tourture.
Then I'am onley taking it from first hand accounts of what it was like to be waterboarded.
Also note that these accounts came from our own service men and my friends.

GM, have you ever been waterboarded or do you know anyone who has?
                                                                                       TG
For those who don't know the Navy's SERE school: Survive Escape Resist and Evade......Usally pilots -aircrew -Seals-EOD and the types attend this school

40
Politics & Religion / Re: Iraq
« on: August 29, 2007, 06:58:30 AM »
A slightly different version of Crafty's previous post........This one openly talks about Sadrs Milita attacking U.S. troops ect.
I view Sadr as being a huge part of the Problem andhes done this before onely to come back and cause more carnage.....I just can't understand why we allow him to continue......He's a huge reason why I have a probelm with how we are fighting a "war" in Iraq.
What ever happend to Sistani(sp) I thought he was Sadr's superior? :|
                                                                               TG

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Al-Sadr suspends militia activity in Iraq By DAVID RISING, Associated Press Writer
21 minutes ago
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070829/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

BAGHDAD - Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr has ordered a six-month suspension of activities by his Mahdi Army militia in order to reorganize the force, and it will no longer attack U.S. and coalition troops, aides said Wednesday.

ADVERTISEMENT
 
The aide, Sheik Hazim al-Araji, said on Iraqi state television that the goal was to "rehabilitate" the organization, which has reportedly broken into factions, some of which the U.S. maintains are trained and supplied by Iran.

"We declare the freezing of the Mahdi Army without exception in order to rehabilitate it in a way that will safeguard its ideological image within a maximum period of six months starting from the day this statement is issued," al-Araji said, reading from a statement by al-Sadr.

In Najaf, al-Sadr's spokesman said the order also means the Mahdi Army will no longer launch attacks against U.S. and other coalition forces.

"It also includes suspending the taking up of arms against occupiers as well as others," Ahmed al-Shaibani told reporters.

Asked if Mahdi militiamen would defend themselves against provocations, he replied: "We will deal with it when it happens."

T

41
Politics & Religion / Re: Media Issues
« on: August 28, 2007, 10:01:32 AM »
Buzwardo, Not sure a copywrite would help, but this guy bears some similarites, that may lead one to beleive it to be you....like him being a English lit. major and also from  a similar, general  geographic location  as well as a percieved general personality similar to yourself. (as I percieve it).
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=67149053
Sorry for the case of mistaken identity......imagine two Buzwardos in the world :-o
                                                                                 TG

42
Politics & Religion / Re: Media Issues
« on: August 28, 2007, 06:48:16 AM »
Buzwardo, My first inclination is to not respond to your post, after all I've already ridden off into the sunset.
However I just don't want you to feel sorry for me, and my inferior vocabulary and my inablity to translate it across the computer key board.
I do feel my best attributes may be as a orator....Also I may be somewhat uninformed and often post on personal opinon....I may over argue my points....but also feel myself a big enough man to be willing to admit "I was wrong"

As for learning the English language....While I may never have the same mastery as yourself, if ever I feel a need to improve on it, I will consult my mother who was a English major.......As I did mention in a previous post I prefer to communicate in a way that transcends all levels...therefore not excluding anyone from conversation.
Neither am I overly concerned about my abilitys to learn nor attain knowledge, as I'am quite proud of my education having made it through Nursing school and currently working as a nurse in a "in" patient Hospice facility, I have no problem communicating with doctors or other medical professionals on a regular/daily baisis......
So....please don't feel sorry for me.....I'am pretty confortable where I'am at :wink:
                                                                   TG
By the way, I found all I care to know about you on  your "my space page" Pretty intresting pictures :wink:

43
Politics & Religion / Re: Media Issues
« on: August 27, 2007, 03:31:31 PM »
Buzwardo, You seem to bear a little to the defensive side....As I said its all I good. I will not pursue, you conversation further after all as you so handly show I'am by no means in your league.
Well Iam off to slay dragons else where......I think to make my pursuit.....white, Buddhists living on the East coast...named Chuckie :roll:
I bid you ado.......
Rides off into the sunset gathering bread crumbs as he goes :wink:
                                     TG

44
Politics & Religion / Re: Media Issues
« on: August 27, 2007, 02:40:32 PM »
Buzwardo, I won't lose any sleep because you refuse a little transparency. Though it was nice of you to apologise to SB Mig.
Which was part of the reason for my asking you to share a little of yourself...since you seem to have no problem criticizing others.
Its all good......
I actaully did take a look at your posting record, to find that you posted less than 2% on the martial arts threads......any chance you might actaully share your martial arts experiences....Or is the question somthing you would rather not share....anyway....
I'am just kinda wondering whats your attraction to a martial arts forum.
Please post on a more apropriate thread if your so inclined.
                  TG

45
Politics & Religion / Re: Media Issues
« on: August 26, 2007, 01:46:19 PM »
Buzwardo, I don't recall saying or infering that you need to or should write down to me. I just see no reason to read through all your self flattery just to have you write at the end quotes like this:
Quote
Bottom line is I've no qualms with your checklist, but ask if you should add yourself to it.
After all isn't that pretty much what your saying all along?
Evidently you've got plenty of time on your hands........but...... Please by all means continue to impress!
I asked you what bunny slippers you bow to... You refrenced a above post.  I can't seem to locate that list you lead me to believe is so clearly communicated......maybe if you could help me out with that "list".
As for the martial arts refrence. It has been my experience that the simple techniques is most often the ones that yield the best result.
The cute eloquent ones are merly for show........I'am sure though if your as good a fighter as you are internet whiz kid then you may disagree....though I must confess to not seeing a lot of your postings on the martial arts threads. :roll: Have you ever made any?
Feel free to move this to another thread and eloquently tell me all about your fighting/martial arts experiences.
Hey....its the internet......you can be king if you like :wink:
                                                                                    TG
Actually I thought my previous post simple enough.........All I asked was what you stand for......all I got in response was more BS.......
                                                                               

46
Politics & Religion / Re: Media Issues
« on: August 25, 2007, 01:54:21 PM »
Buzwardo, Your last post was very elequently worded and quite cute.You do have quite a way with words. I'am  quite a bit simplier and to the point....I see no need to drag out a message in a flowery vocab. :roll: Though I feel you think quite highley of yourself as is evident by your postings :|
Which brings me to my point/ question........You seem to have no problem Bashing everyone under the sun and appear to stand for .......well....not much....or take no particular side.......that in its self is fairly safe....but anyway.....I'am just curious as to what Bunny slippers you bow to? I DO POSE THIS AS A SERIOUS QUESTION.
Hopefully not self....that would be just sad....
                                                                                        TG
Guro Crafty......no tempeture rising here :-D.....Just trying to get a feel for a guy who appears to take no side.

47
Politics & Religion / Re: Freedom of religion...
« on: August 24, 2007, 05:24:48 PM »
Knowing that Guro Crafty won't allow a religon discussion to take place on the media thread(at least not for long :-D)
Lets move this to a more appropriate thread.
I think in a realsitic context when it comes to extremism......One fundimental consideration should be, What are the teachings of the particular religon.
I for one am a pretty devout, born again Christian. One who actually reads the Bible.
No where in scripture could you point to any thing remotely condoning Bombing abortion clinics or any such acts of taking life.
Besides the modle of a Christian is Jesus Christ and I just don't see him blowing up an abortion clinic. :roll:
As for the Muslim religon adn the teaching of the Koran......I make no claim to knowing what it says to any degree....but the actions of a lot of Muslims tend to give much to consider.
                                                                          TG
Bear in mind if anyone wants to debate Christianity that old and new testament are two totally different convenants and we are now in the day of grace. The law being old testement.

48
Politics & Religion / Re: Media Issues
« on: August 24, 2007, 11:47:49 AM »
 GM, Having watched 1.5 parts of the 3 part series (not able to stomache finishing the Christain part3) I find this article to be pretty much on the mark.
The points of the article are well taken.
I also thik this quote from SB-Mig to make good sense also....regarding a LOT off issues :
Quote
I have to admit that a truly objective film on the subject matter seems like an impossibility at this point in the game.

Unfortunatly I think there is no middle ground any longer.......Or objectivity.
                                                                          TG

49
Politics & Religion / Re: Iraq
« on: August 24, 2007, 07:33:09 AM »
GM, If you read my posts concerning Iraq, you will see my gripe is on strategy/ doing what it takes to win the war and the will to stick to it or adapt.
Like Crafty said in his Stratfor post Bush has sat on strategy since 2003 not made neccassary changes,and worn the tolerance of the American people,the American people have
had enough andregardless of what transpires in the surge.....It may already be too late.....
That also will affect our global war on terror in the next presidential election....Becuase if the American people want us out of Iraq bad enough they will be sure to elect someone who will get it done.....of course that will probably also translate to someone who is soft on the war on terror.
Cut and Run.....nah I'am not for that......though I may also be willing to conceed this war is lost.....esp if we dont change our ways and get real serious about what were doing.(I don't see that happening)
My view on the surge is that its a dog and pony show...with no real sustained effort and already talk of discontinueing it.....not sure whats the point of a two week surge(sarcasm).
I just don't think  were willing to do what it takes to win in Iraq......and possibly the whole of the globe war on terror.
My opinon were fighting half assed.......
That I have some difficulty supporting.
                                                                   TG

50
Politics & Religion / Re: Media Issues
« on: August 23, 2007, 06:56:40 PM »
Guro Crafty, I don't intend to beat this into the ground but.......My feeling is...When the the Palestinian gov. was the PLO...Hammas was its gaurd dog.......and most often left off leash, and ran loose unrestrained. We may have from time to time put up a feeble protest...which mostly went unheard by the PLO.
I think it wrong to assert that it was ok to fund the PLO just because they signed the Oslo accords.....but I do understand that When Palestine showed its true colors by voting in Hammas it gave us a easy out on funding the Palestinians.
                                                                 TG
Kinda the baisis of my orginal argument towards the CNN/ CA article.....

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