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Politics & Religion / Communication with Moslems
« on: June 29, 2006, 06:22:15 AM »
Hi everybody!
First I'm not going to comment on the last reply in this discussion as I think that everybody here is grown up enough to make up his own opinion.
All I want to share here are a few experiences I personally had with moslems, making absolutely no reference to the media or political actions done by any government.
I am aware that what I write here is generalized, simplified and, of course, subjective.
I live in a place where it?s easy to meet many Moslems (Berlin in Germany) as well as people of other religions. Most moslems are Turks, Kurds, Arabians and North Africans. I had many conversations with several of these people on a variety of subjects, including religion.
One commonality was that none (of the men) considered they could ever be of any other religion, which is fair enough in my eyes since I as both, an infidel in the moslem sense and heathen in the christian sense, feel the same about my own religion. But what kind of bugs me is that many, but not all, expressed opinions that Islam is the only true religion and everybody should be part of it to make the world a better place. The first two who said so did by themselves while others just agreed when I brought it up myself. Two (not the first two) took that as an opinion to try and convert me. One I recall as being an Egyptian actualy threatened me with Allah to judge me when I die and send me to hell for eternal punishment if I don?t follow the only true way. The other, who was a Saudi, tried to discuss it and convince me.
Another thing is that when politics come up, pretty much everybody seems willing to condemn violence in general but when we?re talking about terrorism in the name of Islam most react in an evasive way while a few even go as far as claiming that the West, especially the US and Israel, leave the islamic world with no other choice.
Very few would discuss the actual contents of Islam. Why that is I?m not sure but I got the impression that many don?t really know much about it and Islam is something like a habit. I might be wrong there.
Perhaps an explanation can be given by a Turkish father I know who wouldn?t send his children to islamic school for (quote:) ? there they only get taught to hate everybody else?.
One of the almost-fights I had was with an asumed Turk who had an argument with his girlfriend and threatened to beat her. That happened in the underground train and I only include it here because he called me an ?unbelieving pig? who shouldn?t interfere when he?s arguing with ?his? (yes, he repeatedly stressed that word in the pronunciation) woman.
One Tunesian I met had am interesting conspiracy theory concerning 9/11, because "Moslems would never do such a thing". He was convinced that it was the Germans and the attack was not against the US but against the Jews and their economic power represented by the world trade center. All evidence for Moslems being behind it was faked later.
These are just a few of my experiences with Moslems. I have also had good experiences, which have nothing to do with Islam, but the overall picture I get is the following:
I rather don?t trust them when it?s about their fellow believers or when there is an argument between ?them? and ?us?, even when I?m not convinced that ?we? are right. (I am aware that this sentence is extremely generalizing and simplifying.)
I could write so much more but I don?t know why I should and want to keep this brief.
I also hope I didn?t offend anybody but if so there is nothing I can do about it. I won?t appologize for my experiences or the conclusions I draw from them.
As a final word for this entry I want to say, that I will stick to treating everybody as an individual first and a member of a group second.
Nuff? said
Blain
First I'm not going to comment on the last reply in this discussion as I think that everybody here is grown up enough to make up his own opinion.
All I want to share here are a few experiences I personally had with moslems, making absolutely no reference to the media or political actions done by any government.
I am aware that what I write here is generalized, simplified and, of course, subjective.
I live in a place where it?s easy to meet many Moslems (Berlin in Germany) as well as people of other religions. Most moslems are Turks, Kurds, Arabians and North Africans. I had many conversations with several of these people on a variety of subjects, including religion.
One commonality was that none (of the men) considered they could ever be of any other religion, which is fair enough in my eyes since I as both, an infidel in the moslem sense and heathen in the christian sense, feel the same about my own religion. But what kind of bugs me is that many, but not all, expressed opinions that Islam is the only true religion and everybody should be part of it to make the world a better place. The first two who said so did by themselves while others just agreed when I brought it up myself. Two (not the first two) took that as an opinion to try and convert me. One I recall as being an Egyptian actualy threatened me with Allah to judge me when I die and send me to hell for eternal punishment if I don?t follow the only true way. The other, who was a Saudi, tried to discuss it and convince me.
Another thing is that when politics come up, pretty much everybody seems willing to condemn violence in general but when we?re talking about terrorism in the name of Islam most react in an evasive way while a few even go as far as claiming that the West, especially the US and Israel, leave the islamic world with no other choice.
Very few would discuss the actual contents of Islam. Why that is I?m not sure but I got the impression that many don?t really know much about it and Islam is something like a habit. I might be wrong there.
Perhaps an explanation can be given by a Turkish father I know who wouldn?t send his children to islamic school for (quote:) ? there they only get taught to hate everybody else?.
One of the almost-fights I had was with an asumed Turk who had an argument with his girlfriend and threatened to beat her. That happened in the underground train and I only include it here because he called me an ?unbelieving pig? who shouldn?t interfere when he?s arguing with ?his? (yes, he repeatedly stressed that word in the pronunciation) woman.
One Tunesian I met had am interesting conspiracy theory concerning 9/11, because "Moslems would never do such a thing". He was convinced that it was the Germans and the attack was not against the US but against the Jews and their economic power represented by the world trade center. All evidence for Moslems being behind it was faked later.
These are just a few of my experiences with Moslems. I have also had good experiences, which have nothing to do with Islam, but the overall picture I get is the following:
I rather don?t trust them when it?s about their fellow believers or when there is an argument between ?them? and ?us?, even when I?m not convinced that ?we? are right. (I am aware that this sentence is extremely generalizing and simplifying.)
I could write so much more but I don?t know why I should and want to keep this brief.
I also hope I didn?t offend anybody but if so there is nothing I can do about it. I won?t appologize for my experiences or the conclusions I draw from them.
As a final word for this entry I want to say, that I will stick to treating everybody as an individual first and a member of a group second.
Nuff? said
Blain
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