Author Topic: The Pope  (Read 8812 times)

ccp

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The Pope
« on: May 30, 2014, 07:45:18 PM »
The Pope's correction of Netanyahu's point about Jesus speaking to other Jews in Hebrew and Pope Francis 'correction' of him claiming it was Aramaic didn't really offend me much but his all too easy and convenient populist criticism of capitalism and the wealthy rather did offend me.  What about the responsibility of the poor to better themselves?  What about their responsibility to not live off handouts?   This is not virtuous living.   It is not the job of the successful to spend their lives working to support others. 

It is reasonable to say a job of the powerful is to provide as level a playing field as possible so everyone can have a chance. 

[BTW, I also hope I didn't offend anyone in my short but succinct diatribe against the Pope the other day.   If I did I apologize.]
 
In any case one persons interpretation of the Pope:

****The Pope's Criticism Of Capitalism Has One Wealthy Donor Very Upset
 
CNBC    | By Michelle Caruso-Cabrera 
   Posted:  12/31/2013 8:45 am EST     
           
  Pope Francis' critical comments about the wealthy and capitalism have at least one wealthy capitalist benefactor hesitant about giving financial support to one of the church's major fundraising projects.

At issue is an effort to raise $180 million for the restoration of St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York being spearheaded by billionaire Ken Langone, the investor known for founding Home Depot, among other things.

Langone told CNBC that one potential seven-figure donor is concerned about statements from the pope criticizing market economies as "exclusionary," urging the rich to give more to the poor and criticizing a "culture of prosperity" that leads some to become "incapable of feeling compassion for the poor."

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Langone said he's raised the issue more than once with Cardinal Timothy Dolan, archbishop of New York, most recently at a breakfast in early December at which he updated him on fundraising progress.

"I've told the cardinal, 'Your Eminence, this is one more hurdle I hope we don't have to deal with. You want to be careful about generalities. Rich people in one country don't act the same as rich people in another country,' " he said.



 
Some of the statements in question are from Francis' first teaching, or "exhortation," a 224-page document issued in late November. In it, the pontiff criticizes what he calls "an economy of exclusion and inequality," blaming ideologies that "defend the absolute autonomy of the marketplace and financial speculation."

Dolan told CNBC that he had heard from Langone and said, " 'Well, Ken, that would be a misunderstanding of the Holy Father's message. The pope loves poor people. He also loves rich people.' ... So I said, 'Ken, thanks for bringing it to my attention. We've gotta correct to make sure this gentleman understands the Holy Father's message properly.' And then I think he's gonna say, 'Oh, OK. If that's the case, count me in for St. Patrick's Cathedral.' "

Neither Langone or Dolan revealed the name of the potential donor. The cardinal said he didn't know the person's identity, and Langone declined to name him, saying only that the individual was upset about the pope's comments about the rich being insensitive to the poor.

In a speech in Brazil in July, Francis appealed "to those in possession of greater resources," saying that they should "never tire of working for a more just world, marked by greater solidarity. No one can remain insensitive to the inequalities that persist in the world."

It was unclear when Dolan may speak with the individual donor.

Langone, who describes himself as a devout Catholic who prays every morning, said he has told the cardinal that "you get more with honey than with vinegar." He said he also wants to make clear that wealthy Americans are some of the biggest donors in the world.

"There is no nation on earth that is so forthcoming, so giving," he said, adding that he hopes the pope can "celebrate a positive point of view rather than focusing on the negative."

The United States ranks No. 1 in the Charities Aid Foundation's most recent World Giving Index, with proportionally more Americans giving than the population of any other country.

Dolan said that the pope has expressed gratitude for American philanthropy.

"In the one long sit-down that I had with him, the Holy Father told me that he has a lot of gratitude for the generosity of the Catholic Church in the United States. He's aware of our help to the missions, to the poor of the world, to international development, to peace and ... justice," he said. "So, I know that he's very grateful for the ... legendary generosity of the Catholic Church in the United States."

Langone said he is also on a campaign to explain "the vast difference between the pope's experience in Argentina and how we are in America."

Francis is from Argentina, a country that suffered tremendous economic upheaval in early 2001 in what was then the largest sovereign default in history. Poverty rates skyrocketed overnight when the country refused assistance from the International Monetary Fund.

Arthur Brooks, head of the American Enterprise Institute, a think tank that promotes free markets, said he agrees that the pope's beliefs are likely informed by his Argentine heritage.

"In places like Argentina, what they call free enterprise is a combination of socialism and crony capitalism," he said.

Brooks, also a practicing Catholic who has read the pope's exhortation in its original Spanish, said that "taken as a whole, the exhortation is good and right and beautiful. But it's limited in its understanding of economics from the American context." He noted that Francis "is not an economist and not an American."

"For American Catholics and Americans in general, we have a moral responsibility to the poor to spread the word of true free enterprise around the world," Brooks said. "By doing that, we have the best shot of meeting the Holy Father's objectives, which are good objectives."

He also thinks some of the English translation of the exhortation is inaccurate. For example, in one of its most talked-about passages about trickle-down economics, the Spanish version is softer than the English-language one.

The quote in English reads, "In this context, some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably [italics CNBC's] succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world."

A better translation, Brooks said, would be "economic growth, encouraged by a free market alone, will succeed in bringing about greater justice." (This author speaks Spanish and agrees.)

"Of course a free market alone won't do the trick," he said.

A number of people, from Republican Sen. John McCain to conservative radio commentator Rush Limbaugh, have weighed in on Francis' statements, with the latter calling it "pure Marxism."

Dolan calls the Marxist label "hyperbole," telling CNBC that the pope thinks "money in itself is morally neutral. Money, our wealth, is a gift from God. And the morality comes in the way we use it.

"If it becomes a god, if it becomes an idol, Pope Francis is saying, then it's wrong. Because there is only one God. If we use it for our own selves and our families, for a secure and a safe present and future, if we use it to reinvest in the community, to help others, and if we share with the poor, then it's morally good," Dolan said.*****
« Last Edit: May 12, 2025, 09:22:29 AM by Crafty_Dog »

ccp

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Marxist Pope
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2016, 05:43:11 AM »
The problem that I have with this guy is his incessant harping on capitalism.  Nothing wrong to remind us about hunger and and poor and the rest of it.  But the constant harping about the big evil is capitalism (rather than Muslims burning human beings alive) is what bothers me. 

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/pope-says-christmas-hostage-materialism-god-shadows-222557049.html

BTW if it wasn't for the industrial revolution and the great scientific discoveries the vast majority of which were made as a result of capitalism we would all be living from day to day off the land and hunting and gathering.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Pope
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2016, 07:11:38 AM »
Please post that here  http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=1094.0 and I will modify the name of the thread suitably.



Crafty_Dog

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ccp

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democrat pope
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2021, 02:14:36 PM »
well yeah

I read today there will be funding for illegals

which means ....

and they are trying to keep Ice from churches
just think of the increase in membership rolls

DougMacG

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Re: democrat pope
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2021, 04:54:34 PM »
I try to speak well of the Catholic faith but... 
This guy is a politician.
He is a politician of the opposite view to mine.

He is a Marxist, self described, completely ignorant on successful, free market capitalism, the force that raised more people out of poverty than all of other economic systems in world history. 

Wouldn't you think a man of his importance, who addresses poverty everyday, would know that?

https://www.realclearreligion.org/articles/2015/07/15/is_pope_francis_a_marxist_prophet.html#!

G M

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Re: The Woke Pope Francis
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2021, 05:13:23 PM »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Pope
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2021, 05:32:37 PM »
 :evil: :evil: :evil:



Crafty_Dog

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Mark Tapsan: Pope Leo
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2025, 08:09:00 AM »


Meet the New PopeSame as the old Pope?May 9, 2025 by Mark TapsonWhite smoke billowed from the Sistine Chapel chimney today and the bells of St. Peter’s rang out, signaling that the conclave was concluded after only 24 hours, and that 133 cardinals had elected a successor to the recently deceased Pope Francis.Robert Francis Prevost, 69, who has chosen the name Leo XIV, is the 267th pope and the first from the United States – Chicago, to be precise. But lest you get your hopes up that the world’s 1.4 billion Roman Catholics will now be headed by a MAGA patriot, it’s telling that one Vatican insider describes Prevost as “one of the least ‘American’ of the American cardinals.” Having served for two decades in Peru, where he was a missionary, parish priest, teacher and bishop and became a naturalized citizen, he has spent much of his life outside the United States.In fact, earlier this year Prevost took to social media to declare that Vice President JD Vance, a devout Catholic, was “wrong” to assert that God wants us to embrace “ordo amoris,” or a sort of hierarchical, “ordered” love. “You love your family. Then you love your neighbor. And then you love your fellow citizens… THEN prioritize the rest of the world,” Vance said. That statement sparked a major Catholic debate, with political conservatives generally siding with Vance. Prevost made his position clear by sharing an article online titled, “JD Vance is wrong: Jesus doesn’t ask us to rank our love for others.”Many Catholics (and non-Catholics, for that matter) were praying for a more traditional, conservative choice after twelve years of the globalist progressive, Pope Francis. During his pontificate, Francis made landmark declarations that encouraged the Left, including allowing the blessing of people in same-sex unions and calling for more mass migration into already overwhelmed Western nations. One conservative Catholic author even persuasively argued several reasons “Why We Need a Pope From Africa” such as Guinean Cardinal Robert Sarah, a defender of the embattled, traditional Latin mass (but who, at 80, was a long-shot pick).Just prior to today’s revelation that a pope had been chosen, Sheryl Collmer at Crisis Magazine online, a publication on Catholic issues, wrote that Francis’ tenure was “tragic” and nearly “destroyed” the church. She asked, “Will we have the heart and courage to rebuild the Church after the devastation of the recent past?”Perhaps not, because Prevost’s career was apparently closely observed, if not steered, by Francis himself. According to GB News, “Francis clearly had an eye on him for years.” To summarize from The College of Cardinals Report profile of Cardinal Prevost: in 2014, Pope Francis appointed him apostolic administrator of the Diocese of Chiclayo in Peru, then Bishop of Chiclayo in 2015. Francis appointed him to one of the most influential Vatican posts in January 2023, running the office that selects and manages bishops globally. He held that post until Pope Francis died late last month. On September 30, 2023, Francis elevated Prevost to the rank of Cardinal.It’s also notable that only those cardinals under the age of 80 are eligible to vote in the papal conclave; there are currently 135 of these – the largest number in the church’s history – and Pope Francis appointed about 80% of them. Considering this, did a more traditionalist candidate ever have a chance?On social issues, Prevost is viewed as progressive, particularly in his embrace of “marginalized” groups such as the migrants Pope Francis championed. The New York Times notes that Prevost “resembles Francis in his commitment to the poor and migrants, and to meeting people where they are,” whatever that last bit means.He also supported Pope Francis’ change to allow divorced and civilly remarried Catholics to receive Holy Communion. It’s too soon to tell how willing Prevost will be to curry favor with the Alphabet lobby, or how woke he may or may not be (he has rejected, for example, the idea of ordaining women as deacons, stating that “clericalizing women” doesn’t necessarily solve a problem, and might even create new problems).There is no question, however, that he aligns closely with Pope Francis’ progressive environmental priorities. Prevost has been outspoken about the need for urgent action on climate change. He recently stressed that the Church must move “from words to action,” warning against the “harmful” consequences of unchecked technological development.Progressives are already throwing their support behind Prevost, rejecting the idea of Catholic unity, and eager to marginalize the conservative faithful. In an appearance on CNN News Central, Left-wing Catholic writer Michael Sean Winters of National Catholic Reporter told conservatives who are less than thrilled with a pope who may prove to be Francis 2.0 that “if he’s teaching the gospel in a way that doesn’t cohere with your politics, as a Catholic, you have to ask yourself if your politics need to change.”Winters then dismissed those “very well funded and very well organized” conservatives as really “a minuscule part of the population and they have to do some soul searching, now.” He gloated, “I think they thought this archconservative was going to come in and role everything back. And clearly, the cardinals of the worldwide church said, no, we’re moving ahead.”So, despite President Trump jokingly sharing online an AI image of himself as the new pope, it appears that conservative Catholics aren’t getting the anti-Francis they longed for. Until that day comes, it may be up to the rank-and-file faithful themselves to be “the ones we have been waiting for” and to press for “hope and change” – from the bottom up.As Sheryl Collmer put it in Crisis, “Now we have work ahead of us. We have to rebuild the walls of the Holy City, consecrate what has been desacralized, and bring back the hope that comes with Truth—and only with Truth.” Whether Pope Leo XIV will lead that movement, or clash with it, remains to be seen.