Author Topic: The Politics of Health Care  (Read 781017 times)

Crafty_Dog

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1500 on: December 17, 2016, 11:29:15 AM »
An interesting articulation of the problem.  I will need to think more on this:


ccp

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same problem it has always been; good NRO article
« Reply #1501 on: January 04, 2017, 05:05:31 AM »
We all want world class health care.  And at the same time we want someone else to pay for it.

There appears no way to get around the fact that to pay for pre existing conditions all of us will have to pay.  Hence reason for the "mandate"

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/443502/republicans-obamacare-repeal-plan-preexisting-coverage-problem
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 08:36:29 AM by Crafty_Dog »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1502 on: January 04, 2017, 08:36:01 AM »
Good article.

The final paragraphs get to what I have been saying here for a very long time.  Prices need to be knowable.

I would like to explore the notion that prices need to be the same for everyone, be they insured or uninsured.


G M

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1503 on: January 04, 2017, 01:50:02 PM »
Good article.

The final paragraphs get to what I have been saying here for a very long time.  Prices need to be knowable.

I would like to explore the notion that prices need to be the same for everyone, be they insured or uninsured.



If I as the seller of a good or service decide to set the price differently for different customers, who is to tell me otherwise?


Crafty_Dog

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1504 on: January 04, 2017, 07:11:26 PM »
A fair question, but let me bounce it back at you:

As a customer, how would you feel if the supermarket charged you more for a given food item than someone else?

Crafty_Dog

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Morris: Apply the law to Congress as well
« Reply #1505 on: January 04, 2017, 07:24:08 PM »
How To Repeal ObamaCare
By DICK MORRIS
Published on DickMorris.com on January 4, 2017
A recent column by Heather R. Higgins and Phil Kerpen really points the way to how to get rid of this obnoxious program.  Their ideas are similar to ones I have ventured in this space.

Zero fund the fines for failure to buy insurance or offer it to one's workers.  No need to repeal it which would take 60 votes.  Just zero out the penalty and leave the "fine" on the books to rot away.  Zero fund the fines that penalize people for buying healthcare plans that are not as extensive or expensive as the bureaucrats want.  Let folks buy what they want -- or nothing at all -- and let them keep, or revert if they can, to their old policies.  Any state approved plan should be OK under ObamaCare.

Keep the subsidies in place but with less coverage and lower premiums, the subsidies will drop.

Keep coverage of pre-existing conditions and the prohibition against terminating a plan or raising premiums if people become ill.

And then bring under Medicare -- or some other government subsidy -- everyone whose illness is so bad and chronic that they can't meet their needs through insurance.

But Higgins and Kerpen add a new wrinkle -- they ask that Trump rescind the Obama Administration ruling exempting members of Congress and their staffs from ObamaCare requirements.  In practice, this means cutting their premium subsidies that currently pay for up to three-quarters of the cost.  As Higgins and Kerpen point out, "there is nothing as motivating as skin in the game."  By making members and staffers on Capitol Hill pay for more of their insurance, you can bet a sharp reduction of cost will be soon coming.

Republicans can only pass bills that come under the reconciliation procedure that only requires a simple majority in the Senate.  The parliamentarian decides what is kosher for reconciliation and what is an overreach.  But Republicans should feel free to override the parliamentarian's orders if they need to do so.

Don't let the Republicans sell the idea that a full repeal has to wait for years while a meaningless resolution signaling an intention to repeal takes effect.  This dodge and evasion would leave millions of people with plans they can't afford or deductibles that bar access to services. 

By a combination of executive orders and legislation that would not require 60 votes (because it is passed under reconciliation), get rid of this law now!
 

G M

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1506 on: January 04, 2017, 08:17:07 PM »
A fair question, but let me bounce it back at you:

As a customer, how would you feel if the supermarket charged you more for a given food item than someone else?


Can I go to another supermarket?

Crafty_Dog

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1507 on: January 04, 2017, 09:57:06 PM »
In this case of health care, thanks to government meddling no you can't.

DougMacG

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1508 on: January 04, 2017, 11:11:49 PM »
GM:  If I as the seller of a good or service decide to set the price differently for different customers, who is to tell me otherwise?


I believe the criteria for determining legal discrimination is 'rational basis'.  

If the provider can collect sooner or with greater certainty, say with cash or guaranteed payment, the price might be lower.  There still can be prices published, easy to access that can also list available discounts and surcharges.

Yesterday I had the vocation of 'medical coding' explained to me.  CCP likely knows more.  The medical coder goes through the doctor's notes and writes down the codes and from that the computer bills it out - based on the doctor's handwriting!

If the computer knows the codes and all the rates, why can't the consumer?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CCP:
We all want world class health care.  And at the same time we want someone else to pay for it.
There appears no way to get around the fact that to pay for pre existing conditions all of us will have to pay.  Hence reason for the "mandate".



This question seems to be stumping everyone.  It seems to me that to qualify for the pre-existing conditions benefit you have to do a few things, sign up for coverage, pay extra, keep coverage as long as you have income, etc.  If it is subsidized, that subsidy should come out of general revenues and not drive up the rates for others making healthcare costs further out of reach for more and more people.

The federal budget already spends 1 trillion a year on healthcare.  We don't need to instantly or ever hit a zero number.  We can subsidize some healthcare and some people will still get healthcare for free.  The point of reform is to get more and more people, hundreds of millions of them, to be choosing and paying for their own private sector healthcare and for the government to be paying for less and less of it, at least as a proportion of the economy.  Within that privatization movement, the government can require better and better disclosure on services and prices, IMHO.

Crafty_Dog

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Pravda on the Beach: Ocare working
« Reply #1509 on: January 05, 2017, 06:21:53 AM »
How do we answer the charts and attendant assertions herein?

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-obamacare-charts-20170104-story.html

DougMacG

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Re: Pravda on the Beach: Ocare working
« Reply #1510 on: January 05, 2017, 09:50:05 AM »
How do we answer the charts and attendant assertions herein?

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-obamacare-charts-20170104-story.html

Good question and we can add to this with data but the simple answer is that the piece is deceptive by its omissions.  For example my plan was lost due to Obamacare.  I am switching doctors a second and third time due to Obamacare.  My cost has roughly doubled each year due to Obamacare.  The plan I choose to be on is illegal due to Obamacare.  I went from self-sufficient to subsidized due to Obamacare.  I am a ward of the state and disgusted by the thought of it.  (Yet I pay more than 100% of my take home income in taxes.)  Government subsidized healthcare is a concern and an extremely high marginal tax rate that faces each low to mid-income worker wishing to increase their income.  In other words, it keeps poor people poor, cripples the growth in the economy, and Democrats love that? Converting to subsidy is not lowering the cost.  On their charts I count as 'insured' and presumably satisfied with Obamacare - because I signed up for a lousy policy that has paid none of my actual expenses as opposed to breaking the law and paying penalties in addition to the cost of self-paid, over-priced healthcare.  

The last article published in Harrisburg (the political center of) Pennsylvania on healthcare before the election was that premiums are going up another 33% per year, in addition to all the other increases we had while Obama and Democrats were losing the House, Senate, state Houses and Governorships largely due to government over-reach and Obamacare.  Republicans hadn't carried PA (or MI or WI) in a Presidential election since Reagan's 49 state win in 1984.  Trump carried Pennsylvania by a greater margin, 67,000 votes, than Hillary had in NH, MN, NV and ME.  And it wasn't because of his high approvals!  People hate Obamacare and all it symbolizes in our government-run lives.  Club for Growth Republican Pat Toomey won reelection in (formerly) blue PA, by a wider margin than Trump.  Conservative Marco Rubio won Florida by eight times the margin of Trump, a combined margin of well over 2 million in a swing state over the nearest Democrat in 2 races since Obamacare.  Democrats lost 90% of their Presidential margin in MN in 8 years from 2008 to 2016.

The insurance companies failed and are pulling out of states and markets.  The risk corridors failed.  People are given fewer and fewer choices, less competition.  The system is broken.  It was broken before Obamacare.  Obamacare was sold on lies, rammed down our throats and made things worse.  If the charts don't show that, it's time for new and better charts.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 10:04:20 AM by DougMacG »

G M

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1511 on: January 05, 2017, 10:04:26 AM »
I stopped paying for health insurance and broke out my Tribal ID card and went to the local tribal health clinic. The prescription I used to pay 30 bucks a month for now costs one dollar.

Indians are exempted from Obamacare!

Crafty_Dog

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1512 on: January 05, 2017, 11:48:33 AM »
This is POTH, but it makes clear the wisdom of Trump's tweets of yesterday about making sure the Dems own the disaster.  At the moment it looks like the Reps are about to step in to take the blame.  Stupid party once again?

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/04/us/affordable-care-act-congress-repeal-plan.html?emc=edit_th_20170105&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=49641193

ccp

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1513 on: January 13, 2017, 05:54:21 AM »
I get this stuff in the mail and while I agree health care has needed changes I don't agree with the government taking over all of it which the ACA was to be the first step in that direction:

https://www.acponline.org/advocacy/acp-advocate/issue/article/718592

ccp

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medical academia
« Reply #1514 on: January 16, 2017, 07:07:10 AM »
Just as liberal as the rest of academia.   In medical journals , other non medical magazines, Smithsonian, National Geographic they are all being overwhelmed with agenda driven liberals.   I quit my NEJM subscription some years ago for this reason.  Any moe Nat Geo stuff like last months ( *cover to cover* - not an article of even 2 but the entire magainze in my face diatribe on LBGTQ and 40 other letters) and that will be cancelled as well. 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/443876/public-health-crisis-gun-violence-debunked

ccp

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We will see
« Reply #1515 on: January 17, 2017, 07:27:16 AM »

ccp

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Crafty_Dog

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Cash Based Care
« Reply #1517 on: January 27, 2017, 05:05:57 PM »
One facet of the dynamic of knowable prices that I have been talking about here for quite some time:

http://time.com/4649914/why-the-doctor-takes-only-cash/

DDF

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1518 on: January 27, 2017, 06:37:48 PM »
I stopped paying for health insurance and broke out my Tribal ID card and went to the local tribal health clinic. The prescription I used to pay 30 bucks a month for now costs one dollar.

Indians are exempted from Obamacare!

I have never paid a dime and refuse to.

I don't know how true it is, but I read today, that the Don just signed an executive order, eliminating the IRS fines for not purchasing that polished t.rd.

EDIT: Yep... he's only signed one order thus far, but here it is....

"Sec. 2. To the maximum extent permitted by law, the Secretary of Health
and Human Services (Secretary) and the heads of all other executive departments
and agencies (agencies) with authorities and responsibilities under
the Act shall exercise all authority and discretion available to them to
waive, defer, grant exemptions from, or delay the implementation of any
provision or requirement of the Act that would impose a fiscal burden

on any State or a cost, fee, tax, penalty, or regulatory burden on individuals,
families, healthcare providers, health insurers, patients, recipients of
healthcare services, purchasers of health insurance, or makers of medical
devices, products, or medications. "

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2017-01-24/pdf/2017-01799.pdf
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 06:43:01 PM by DDF »

ccp

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Dental Cost Calculator
« Reply #1519 on: January 28, 2017, 09:26:57 AM »
https://www.dentaloptimizer.com/dental-cost-calculator/

Dentists mostly don't accept insurance except for minor things like cleanings and a few other things.

It is interesting to see the range of prices.  And the huge differences between states.  Of course like anything else price does not always guarantee quality.  Paying less does not mean one would get less and paying more does not mean it is worth the extra amount.

As Mark John Geragos stated on cable news some years back something to the effect, "being successful in law is all sales".

Medicine is now that way.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 09:56:42 AM by Crafty_Dog »

ccp

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ACP
« Reply #1520 on: February 07, 2017, 08:48:49 AM »
More medical organizations getting into raw politics that in my view they should stay out of.  Wow *2* residents who are members are inconvenienced by Trump's travel ban.  Thus it is an infringement on their rights and religion yada yada.  The travesty and the inhumanity of it.   :roll:

(And next will be the comparisons to Nazi Germany.)

https://www.acponline.org/acp-newsroom/acp-comprehensive-statement-us-immigration-policy


ccp

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1521 on: February 08, 2017, 02:13:54 PM »
I don't disagree to take more time.  The AHA took decades to formulate.  Replacing it with something that works better is no cinch.  For sure no matter what any one comes up with will have some body some where bitching about it.

https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/08/white-house-objects-to-drudge-criticism-gop-needs-time-to-replace-mammoth-obamacare/

Crafty_Dog

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WSJ: The Reps' Health Care Offensive
« Reply #1522 on: February 10, 2017, 05:51:37 AM »
The GOP’s Health-Care Offensive
A new coalition aims to pitch Republicans’ ObamaCare overhaul to the wider public.
Photo: Getty Images
By Kimberley A. Strassel
Updated Feb. 9, 2017 7:45 p.m. ET
149 COMMENTS

When Dave Hoppe recalls his first big health-care fight, one memory stands out. It was the summer of 1994, and Sen. George Mitchell, the Democratic majority leader, had canceled August recess to force a debate over his party’s health-care monster: HillaryCare.

Senators weren’t happy about losing their break, remembers Mr. Hoppe, who at the time was an aide. “And yet, Republican senators were lining up in the cloakroom; they couldn’t wait to get to the floor,” he says. “They knew this issue. They’d studied it. They were better informed than Democrats about HillaryCare. There was such an esprit de corps. It was energizing.”

Twenty-three years later, Mr. Hoppe’s mission is to re-create that energy—only this time for a Republican Party that wants to pass a health-care bill, not stop one. He is helping to assemble a sweeping new alliance—underground until now—called One Nation Health. This “inside-out” coalition—a fast-growing collection of elected officials, staffers, grass-roots groups, think tanks, trade associations, donors and corporations—will serve as the GOP’s voice for selling the country on a “replace/repair” plan for ObamaCare.

One Nation Health is the brainchild of another veteran of the policy wars: David Wilson, the CEO of a Midwestern company called Asset Health. An advocate for individual health empowerment, Mr. Wilson has been in the arena since the Reagan days, and has recently worked on the leading conservative blueprints for reform.

   
Mr. Wilson grew concerned after last fall’s election that Republicans weren’t coordinating to explain what underpinned their ideas. “The right-of-center approach has a set of core principles—with regards to greater access, benefits, choices, health savings, responsibility, rewards to all Americans,” he says. “It is a unifying concept, and one [that] people can understand.”

One of his first calls was to an old friend, Mr. Hoppe, a respected D.C. fixture, both off Capitol Hill (as a consultant) and on (most recently as chief of staff to Paul Ryan). Mr. Hoppe was also concerned by GOP inaction, especially given the depth of determination on the left to thwart reform.

Mr. Hoppe had watched as powerful liberal groups, such as Families USA, launched a save-ObamaCare coalition within 24 hours of the 2016 election. He had seen Democrats begin a full-throated scare campaign about the risks of ending the health law. He had heard that deep-pocketed donors were committing to fund a massive PR effort. He had even witnessed President Obama sojourn to Capitol Hill to exhort Democrats to do whatever necessary to defend his signature law. Mr. Hoppe knew that the right needed its own campaign, and he agreed to help Mr. Wilson set up One Nation Health.

The umbrella group isn’t a policy shop. It isn’t a vehicle to push one GOP health plan over another. And it isn’t a lobbying outfit intended to corral votes in a legislative debate.

Instead, One Nation Health is a clearinghouse, a place for conservatives to meet, share notes, craft messages for the public, and unite on talking points. It will facilitate progress between Congress and the White House. The model was used successfully in 1993-94 by former Sens. Phil Gramm and Paul Coverdell in the fight against HillaryCare, leading to moments, like the Harry and Louise ads, that tipped the scale.

Mr. Hoppe spends every day on calls, and he held the group’s first big meeting two weeks ago. The coalition includes everyone from health policy gurus like the American Enterprise Institute’s James Capretta and the Heritage Foundation’s Bob Moffit to advocacy groups like the American Action Network, which is already running $1 million worth of TV ads, in 15 House districts, arguing for an ObamaCare replacement. Congressional leadership is on board. Rep. Kevin Brady, chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, addressed the group’s inaugural session. Mr. Hoppe says people are joining so fast that his biweekly conference calls are ballooning.

What they all understand: “We’ve got to explain to Americans that the end of ObamaCare doesn’t mean going back to the old system,” Mr. Hoppe says. “It’s about creating a whole new, better system.” That message might help buy Republicans some time to get a reform in place.

Another thing One Nation Health is: an experiment. The right is great at opposing things. It isn’t so great at unifying in support of ideas. Can the GOP flip the HillaryCare model on its head? The One Nation Health umbrella is a first big attempt to answer that question. The hope is that the very act of focusing conservatives on shared themes will remind them how much they have in common. If it works, it could be a model for other big reform efforts.

If it fails, Mr. Hoppe doesn’t like to consider the consequences. “Not everyone is going to get what they want in any reform effort,” he says. “But we’re here to remind people that this is an opportunity of a generation. And if we aren’t successful now, it’ll be generations before we get another shot.”

Write to kim@wsj.com.

ccp

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From the latest Journal of the American Medical Association
« Reply #1523 on: February 16, 2017, 08:32:52 AM »
"Hate is both deadly and contagious. Now is the time to engage the medical profession in eradicating it."

Those who are intolerant are medically ill.  I suppose this is aimed at the deplorable people who are "intolerant":

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2601506

G M

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Re: From the latest Journal of the American Medical Association
« Reply #1524 on: February 16, 2017, 02:18:46 PM »
"Hate is both deadly and contagious. Now is the time to engage the medical profession in eradicating it."

Those who are intolerant are medically ill.  I suppose this is aimed at the deplorable people who are "intolerant":

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2601506

The Soviet Union did a lot of the pioneering work on using mental health facilities for treating counterrevolutionary badthink.

ccp

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1525 on: February 16, 2017, 04:41:12 PM »
As a doctor I resent colleagues suggesting I use my position to enforce liberal propaganda

And the LEFT has the nerve to tell us we are closed minded.

All the while how they are recruiting armies of propagandists who are telling us how to think speak and behave and conform to their ideals.

G M

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Re: From the latest Journal of the American Medical Association
« Reply #1526 on: February 16, 2017, 07:44:34 PM »
"Hate is both deadly and contagious. Now is the time to engage the medical profession in eradicating it."

Those who are intolerant are medically ill.  I suppose this is aimed at the deplorable people who are "intolerant":

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2601506

The Soviet Union did a lot of the pioneering work on using mental health facilities for treating counterrevolutionary badthink.

http://jaapl.org/content/jaapl/30/1/136.full.pdf



ccp

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Crafty_Dog

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Crafty_Dog

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1530 on: March 08, 2017, 11:14:30 PM »
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/323092-trump-courts-former-foe-ted-cruz

Paul Ryan got a lot of time on Tucker Carlson tonight and did a good job of explaining/defending the House's bill.

DougMacG

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1531 on: March 10, 2017, 11:57:31 AM »
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/323092-trump-courts-former-foe-ted-cruz
Paul Ryan got a lot of time on Tucker Carlson tonight and did a good job of explaining/defending the House's bill.

This bill is part one of a three-part plan. Only what can go through reconciliation is included.  Otherwise willl be filibustered. 

Part 2 goes through the full Senate process, includes things like selling across state lines.

Part 3 is the executive branch implementing the law.

Amazing how this issue is splitting the right.  Hard to know who to believe. One negative indicator is Paul Krugman saying positive things about it today (?). 

Crafty_Dog

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1532 on: March 10, 2017, 01:44:47 PM »
IIRC you have Parts 2 and 3 reversed.




DougMacG

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Re: Interesting analysis of the CBO analysis
« Reply #1536 on: March 14, 2017, 03:03:42 PM »
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2017/03/14/believe-it-or-not-cbos-score-of-house-gop-obamacare-replacement-is-better-than-expected/#3f1488f75951

Interesting - for as far as it goes.  CBO is scoring part one of a three part plan. 

"[AHCA cuts taxes, cuts spending, cuts the deficit...] And that’s before you take into account the macroeconomic effects that those tax cuts would have on economic growth, and thereby on greater tax revenues."

It's 2017 and a multimillion dollar study cost and they can't even attempt dynamic scoring?

Score part of a plan without considering the benefits of the legislation?  Yes, that is their mission, incomplete and therefore false scoring. 

Obamacare was written to score under one trillion in cost over ten years.  Is there one honest observer who believes that was true?

Repealing 24 Obamacare taxes on the economy will grow the economy and increase employment and incomes, all not considered in the numbers.   Removing the largest shackle in the economy on employment won't increase jobs and incomes?  Increased income is not a factor in affordability?  I thought it was the denominator.  To CBO, it margin of error, or in this case, just error.

The cost to be covered will not go down when simpler, catastrophic plans are legalized?  Other reforms will also not have downward pressure on prices, such as allowing plans sold across state lines, malpractice reform, etc.?  Cost of plans is not a factor in affordability?  I thought it was the numerator.  Who that is working a good, full time job would not choose to pay a small or reasonable and affordable amount for coverage against an unaffordable health catastrophe?  The more you make, the more you save, the more you are worth, the more likely you are to insure against a severe financial setback, I would think.  Oddly, not figured in the numbers.

If you are CBO, increasing incomes, increasing the size of the workforce, increasing per capita incomes and lowering the costs of coverage, these are not factors of significance when calculating how many people will purchase healthcare policies.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1537 on: March 14, 2017, 03:10:52 PM »
My understanding is that as part of its "nonpolitical" mission, CBO as a matter of policy does not do dynamic scoring.


DougMacG

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1538 on: March 14, 2017, 03:30:36 PM »
My understanding is that as part of its "nonpolitical" mission, CBO as a matter of policy does not do dynamic scoring.

Deniers of science.  CBO will tell you they do figure in dynamic, macroeconomic effects,
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/50919
yet they understate the real effects every single time.

Crafty_Dog

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DougMacG

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Re: CBO says Obamacare not in death spiral?
« Reply #1540 on: March 15, 2017, 11:50:01 AM »
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/14/14921594/obamacare-implosion-ahca

That is the fake news story of the day, Obamacare isn't failing.  "Trump can fix Obamacare ... by doing nothing".  Good luck with that.  I'm not sure Vox is pulling for his success.

We just have to fund the "risk corridors".  And it's already Republicans fault:  http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/7/1592247/-How-the-GOP-Broke-Obamacare  
Republicans have been undermining it from the start!

Premiums are going up 25-70% PER YEAR, your plan is gone, your doctor is gone, your premiums and deductibles are higher than ever before, and you went from self-sufficient to becoming a ward of the state if you are a median income earner, but the program IS NOT FAILING or in a death spiral.  Good grief.

The article begins:  "Beyond its eye-popping findings on higher premiums and large-scale coverage loss..."   Sorry, but they already got me there.  What is beyond screwing up the system and the economy?  More static numbers - based on assumptions already known to be false.

What the hell was the purpose of the ACA again?  Higher premiums and large scale coverage losses??  Costs far beyond what were promised?  Competition lost and "risk corridors' created that mean insurance companies aren't insuring us at all?
http://dailysignal.com/2016/07/26/16-obamacare-co-ops-collapsed-heres-how-the-rest-are-faring/
http://hotair.com/archives/2016/09/12/coming-risk-corridors-bailout-obamacare/
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/309902-obamacares-risk-corridor-corruption-never-ends

What they miss goes back to the (lack of) dynamic scoring question.  This largest ever new entitlement is already keeping our economy from growing; it's not just a healthcare system or insurance issue.  As the economy stagnates or shrinks and fewer employers go out and hire and fewer and fewer people go out and earn their own way and more and more people become dependent on the government for their largest and fastest growing expense and vote for more and more benefits and larger and larger subsidies, the whole economy goes down, not just the healthcare system.  And then you go in needing surgery and there is a 270 day wait, you know why they called it a death spiral.

That's the kind of small thing one might miss with static analysis.  MHO.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 12:03:04 PM by DougMacG »

DougMacG

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Politics of Health Care, dr. Krauthammer on Healthcare replace
« Reply #1541 on: March 17, 2017, 07:44:09 AM »
Some interesting points in here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-real-world-of-obamacare-repeal/2017/03/16/cba55228-0a71-11e7-b77c-0047d15a24e0_story.html?utm_term=.101fbfef8b8a

The real world of Obamacare repeal

By Charles Krauthammer. March 16

The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, but for governments it’s not that easy. Once something is given — say, health insurance coverage to 20 million Americans — you take it away at your peril. This is true for any government benefit, but especially for health care. There’s a reason not one Western democracy with some system of national health care has ever abolished it.

The genius of the left is to keep enlarging the entitlement state by creating new giveaways that are politically impossible to repeal. For 20 years, Republicans railed against the New Deal. Yet, when they came back into office in 1953, Eisenhower didn’t just keep Social Security, he expanded it.

People hated Obamacare for its highhandedness, incompetence and cost. At the same time, its crafters took great care to create new beneficiaries and new expectations. Which makes repeal very complicated.

The Congressional Budget Office projects that, under House Speaker Paul Ryan’s Obamacare replacement bill, 24 million will lose insurance within 10 years, 14 million after the first year.

Granted, the number is highly suspect. CBO projects 18 million covered by the Obamacare exchanges in 2018. But the number today is about 10 million. That means the CBO estimate of those losing coverage is already about 8 million too high.

Nonetheless, there will be losers. And their stories will be plastered wall to wall across the media as sure as night follows day.

That scares GOP moderates. And yet the main resistance to Ryan comes from conservative members complaining that the bill is not ideologically pure enough. They mock it as Obamacare Lite.

For example, Ryan wants to ease the pain by phasing out Medicaid expansion through 2020. The conservative Republican Study Committee wants it done next year. This is crazy. For the sake of two years’ savings, why would you risk a political crash landing?

Moreover, the idea that you can eradicate Obamacare root and branch is fanciful. For all its catastrophic flaws, Obamacare changed expectations. Does any Republican propose returning to a time when you can be denied health insurance because of a preexisting condition?

It’s not just Donald Trump who ran on retaining this new, yes, entitlement. Everyone did. But it’s very problematic. If people know that they can sign up for insurance after they get sick, the very idea of insurance is undermined. People won’t sign up when healthy, and the insurance companies will go broke.

So what do you do? Obamacare imposed a monetary fine if you didn’t sign up, for which the Ryan bill substitutes another mechanism, less heavy-handed but still government-mandated.

The purists who insist upon entirely escaping the heavy hand of government are dreaming. The best you can hope for is to make it less intrusive and more rational, as in the Ryan plan’s block-granting Medicaid.

Or instituting a more realistic age-rating system. Older patients use six times as much health care as their younger counterparts, yet Obamacare decreed, entirely arbitrarily, that the former could be charged insurance premiums no more than three times that of the latter. The GOP bill changes the ratio from 3-to-1 to 5-to-1.

Premiums better reflecting risk constitute a major restoration of rationality. (It’s how life insurance works.) Under Obamacare, the young were unwilling to be swindled and refused to sign up. Without their support, the whole system is thus headed into a death spiral of looming insolvency.

Rationality, however, has a price. The CBO has already predicted a massive increase in premiums for 60-year-olds. That’s the headline.

There is no free lunch. GOP hard-liners must accept that Americans have become accustomed to some new health-care benefits, just as moderates have to brace themselves for stories about the inevitable losers in any reform. That’s the political price for fulfilling the seven-year promise of repealing and replacing Obamacare.

Unless, of course, you go the full Machiavelli and throw it all back on the Democrats. How? Republicans could forget about meeting the arcane requirements of “reconciliation” legislation (which requires only 51 votes in the Senate) and send the Senate a replacement bill loaded up with everything conservative — including tort reform and insurance competition across state lines. That would require 60 Senate votes. Let the Democrats filibuster it to death — and take the blame when repeal-and-replace fails and Obamacare carries on and then collapses under its own weight.

Upside: You reap the backlash. Downside: You have to live with your conscience.

ccp

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1542 on: March 17, 2017, 08:27:52 AM »
Dr. Kruathmmer writes:

"People hated Obamacare for its highhandedness, incompetence and cost. At the same time, its crafters took great care to create new beneficiaries and new expectations. Which makes repeal very complicated.

One doctor who had a hand in "crafting" the AHA said quite explicitly less then on year ago is it "won't get repealed".  It would be political suicide because of the people now on it who had no insurance otherwise.
The game of chicken absolutely was part of the calculation.   We dare your!!

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2nd post
« Reply #1543 on: March 17, 2017, 08:50:40 AM »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/woman-confronts-trump-health-secretary-at-town-hall-over-defunding-planned-parenthood-134609221.html

Hillary's adoring friend in the press , named Dana Bash points out that 105 counties in the US only have planned parenthood to provide full spectrum of BCP in US

First there are over 3000 counties in the US so 105 is a small fraction ~ 3 % .
Second what stops a person from simply driving over to the next county?

I thought HHS sec Price did very well with his answer. 

DougMacG

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1544 on: March 17, 2017, 09:16:26 AM »
Democrats, for all their flaws, are geniuses at framing the argument.  The repeal of Obamacare issue has been framed by the question of, what are you going to do with the 20 million that got their healthcare through the program?

CBO raises the number to 24 million who will lose that healthcare.  Krauthammer says it's really 10 million:

"The Congressional Budget Office projects that, under House Speaker Paul Ryan’s Obamacare replacement bill, 24 million will lose insurance within 10 years, 14 million after the first year.
Granted, the number is highly suspect. CBO projects 18 million covered by the Obamacare exchanges in 2018. But the number today is about 10 million. That means the CBO estimate of those losing coverage is already about 8 million too high."


It's a trap.  While we fight their false numbers and they never concede, it is taken as admitting that 10 millions will be left out, still too many.

But of course it's a false argument.  Healthcare was getting unaffordable before Obamacare and last 8 years made it a national crisis.  The program IS in a death spiral.  You can't effectively compare a new proposal to something that can't be sustained anyway and we can't compare anything  accurately with static analysis.  And what about the 20 million and more that lost their plans over Obamacare?  That gets lost in the other arguments.  Liberals framed the issue.

Affordability has two components, cost and income.  Big government in general and Obamacare in particular make it impossible to grow incomes.  Look at the stagnation in median incomes or listen to a Bernie Sanders speech.  That has to end.  Incomes have to grow if we are ever going to able to afford all the treatments for all the ailments that will ail an aging population.  The first point of affordability is grow the economy.  Excess regulations look like they are getting disrupted fast, but we kicked tax reform down the road.  Bad choice, it should ALL be on the table.

On the cost side, no one seems to be able to point to the one reason why healthcare costs go up and up and up.  Maybe that's because there isn't just one reason!  Why need to go after all the causes and come up with the best solutions possible.  In a nutshell that answer is to return the free market discipline that other industries have to healthcare.  I hate to be a pessimist, but my thought at the moment is, good luck doing that.

What we have instead is Republicans fighting with Republicans over different proposals that will never pass and become law.  Our side needs to come together and put it all on the table - now - with the best, compromise solution possible.  Or be governed by their policies.  Like when Republicans continued CRAp into the financial crisis, Obamacare is still the law of the land and so is the Democrats convoluted tax plan.

This doesn't get easier later.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 09:25:09 AM by DougMacG »

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Re: The Politics of Health Care - A Health Care Reform Plan
« Reply #1545 on: March 21, 2017, 07:43:02 AM »
I am a humble person but I remember that after reading three thousand pages of NAFTA in 1993, I bragged that I could write an international free trade agreement on the back of a cocktail napkin.

Then came the complexities of Hillarycare (see chart):


The people rose up against that federal monstrosity but fast forward 16 years and along came Obamacare, and the people rose up against that and along came Trump or Ryan Care.

Before we criticize others for taking on the most difficult task of designing a healthcare system that meets all the requirements for all the peope, we should each answer the question of what our own proposal would look like.  With that in mind, today I release my US Government federal healthcare proposal as follows, hat tip to the authors of the 10th amendment. 


Doug's Federal Healthcare Reform Proposal, March 2017:
"Powers, such as anything to do with the people's individual and family healthcare, that are not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1546 on: March 21, 2017, 08:09:04 AM »
Doug's Federal Healthcare Reform Proposal, March 2017:
"Powers, such as anything to do with the people's individual and family healthcare, that are not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

How are the various political entities supposed to wet their beaks with this? I see no opportunity for graft or rentseeking. This is madness!

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1547 on: March 21, 2017, 10:15:16 AM »
"How are the various political entities supposed to wet their beaks with this? I see no opportunity for graft or rentseeking. This is madness!"


Imagine the economic energy that could be generated if the massive industry of lawyers, lobbyists and rent-seekers seeking favor with the government had to produce something of value instead of feed off of the efforts of others.  
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 10:19:38 AM by DougMacG »

ccp

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1548 on: March 22, 2017, 05:08:43 PM »
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/biden-defends-obamacare-hill-republican-leaders-hunt-votes-n737086

The problem is with the Republicans

major majority and still probably can't get bill passed .  OF course *every single crat* is against.

I would like for it to pass for the sake of the party .  i don't love the bill but we need to get this first step passed.

As far as my point of view as a physician I have no care one way or another though .  It is all back and forth BS with me plodding on.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 05:19:20 PM by ccp »

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Re: The Politics of Health Care
« Reply #1549 on: March 22, 2017, 07:38:38 PM »
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/biden-defends-obamacare-hill-republican-leaders-hunt-votes-n737086

The problem is with the Republicans

major majority and still probably can't get bill passed .  OF course *every single crat* is against.

I would like for it to pass for the sake of the party .  i don't love the bill but we need to get this first step passed.

As far as my point of view as a physician I have no care one way or another though .  It is all back and forth BS with me plodding on.



There sure are a lot of "Republicans" (cough)... from Blue (or almost Blue) states in the list of 29 who don't support the rest of the GOP.

Here are the House Republicans who are either against the bill or leaning against it. NBC News will update this list:

Jim Jordan (R-OH)

Mark Meadows (R-NC)

Justin Amash (R-MI)

Dave Brat (R-VA)

Raul Labrador (R-ID)

Mo Brooks (R-AL)

Rob Wittman (R-VA)

Thomas Massie (R-KY)

Tom Garrett (R-VA)

Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL)

Leonard Lance (R-NJ)

Mark Amodei (R-NV)

Jim Bridenstine (R-OK)

Louie Gohmert (R-TX)

John Katko (R-NY)

Brian Fitzpatrick (R-PA)

Walter Jones (R-NC)

Ted Budd (R-NC)

Mark Sanford (R-SC)

Rick Crawford (R-AR)

Ted Yoho (R-FL)

Scott DesJarlais (R-TN)

Warren Davidson (R-OH)

Paul Gosar (R-AZ)

Rod Blum (R-Iowa)

Andy Harris (R-MD)

Dan Donovan (R-NY)

Frank LoBiondo (R-NJ)

David Young (R-IA)

Bold being solidly BLUE, Underlined being generally Blue except for the last presidential election, and italicized being true battleground states, showing at least 14 very problamatic people on that list that are either bold or underlined.

Edit: Extra Credit - I've seen brie cheese that wasn't as white as this list is.... kind of shoots the Democrat's "racist, Republican party" garbage, down in flames. There's not a miniority on that list...

Also... Ileana Ros-Lehtinen.... looks like Matt Farley's twin sister... maybe she "live(s) in a van down by the river."




« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 08:02:18 PM by DDF »