Author Topic: Abortion & Life (Read 145787 times)

DougMacG · « **Reply #150 on:** October 22, 2013, 08:10:43 PM »

Quote from: G M on October 22, 2013, 02:47:28 PM

Do a search on Sanger at discover the networks.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1816

Margaret Higgins Sanger was a radical feminist, eugenicist, Marxist, and the founder of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America.
...
According to her New York Times obituary, she sought to encourage birth control and/or abortion among “subnormal children.”
...
(1939) Sanger turned her attention specifically to the reproductive practices of black Americans. She selected former ABCL director Clarence J. Gamble (of the Procter and Gamble company) to become BCFA's southern regional director. That November, Gamble drew up a memorandum titled "Suggestion for Negro Project," whose ultimate aim was to decrease the black birth rate significantly. Anticipating that black leaders would be suspicious of anyone exhorting African Americans to have fewer children, Gamble suggested that BCFA place black leaders in high positions within the organization, so as to give the appearance that they were in charge of the group's agendas. BCFA presented birth control as a vehicle for the upward economic mobility of blacks.
---------------------------------------

More relevant today than racism in the previous century is the way abortion hits black babies now, killing them at a rate three times that of the white ones. Imagine if that was a Republican policy! What liberal over at Planned Parenthood or DNC or MSM has ever expressed concern much less outrage over that?

DougMacG · « **Reply #151 on:** October 23, 2013, 07:16:26 AM »

http://www.twincities.com/crime/ci_24355935/attorneys-apple-valley-man-charged-killing-wife-unborn?source=hottopics

Attorneys for Apple Valley man argue fetus' death was an abortion
10/21/2013

When an Apple Valley woman died in March, her 15-week-old fetus, too young to survive outside the womb, died with her.

Margorie Holland's husband, Roger Holland, is charged with murder in the deaths. But with his trial scheduled for Monday, his attorneys are making a novel argument: The death of the fetus was an abortion, not a murder, and the only person whose rights that such an act could have violated -- the mother -- already was dead.

DougMacG · « **Reply #152 on:** January 14, 2014, 07:33:05 AM »

It seems to me that the longer you wait and the more you need to mull the decision over as the fetus develops, the more you admit there is another life involved. At some point this goes from women's rights, rape victim, mistake etc. to ending an innocent life. Can we all at least agree on that?

The answer, according to the Supreme Court and this NY Times editorial, is NO:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/14/opinion/abortion-rights-a-good-ruling-stands.html?ref=opinion&_r=1

Crafty_Dog · « **Reply #153 on:** January 14, 2014, 08:29:46 AM »

Thanks to the judicial imperialism of SCOTUS in 1973, this issue has been dividing America ever since. 20 weeks seems quite a reasonable legal compromise to me. That after all this time and societal turmoil SCOTUS cannot agree to even 20 weeks is profoundly discouraging. The standard of survivability makes no sense at all because the point of reference changes as technology improves. Surely even by the logic of the Choicers' argument the standard must have reference to the state of development of the zygote/fetus/baby?

Crafty_Dog · « **Reply #154 on:** January 21, 2014, 05:58:23 PM »

http://www.equip.org/articles/peter-singers-bold-defense-of-infanticide/#christian-books-2

Crafty_Dog · « **Reply #155 on:** February 04, 2014, 05:34:59 AM »

http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/a_slow_slog_toward_success

http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/teasing_out_the_facts_in_the_latest_abortion_report

DougMacG · « **Reply #156 on:** February 05, 2014, 07:44:55 PM »

It's called the 'Roe effect'. A lot of the women that would be likely to abort at this point in time were themselves aborted under the rights established in the Roe decision.

Crafty_Dog · « **Reply #157 on:** February 05, 2014, 09:40:15 PM »

OUCH!!!

Crafty_Dog · « **Reply #158 on:** April 25, 2014, 06:35:49 AM »

http://www.glennbeck.com/2014/04/24/aborted-babies-incinerated-as-part-of-waste-to-energy-plant-in-the-united-states/

Crafty_Dog · « **Reply #159 on:** May 13, 2014, 07:09:57 AM »

http://blog.heritage.org/2014/05/13/kermit-gosnell-anniversary-late-term-abortion/?utm_source=heritagefoundation&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=morningbell

DougMacG · « **Reply #160 on:** May 13, 2014, 08:09:31 AM »

Imagine this with the politics reversed and you would have a story. What if liberals cared about protecting the weakest and most innocent among us. What if tea partiers supported widespread use of a procedure that was killing off African-American unborn at 3 times the rate of that for Caucasian-Americans. What if the Koch brothers were caught paying $1.2 Billion, financing the equivalent of 2.7 million abortions, killing the unborn of the poor and non-white disproportionately. And what if the Supreme Court wouldn't let even a majority of good caring liberals stop them, in any state, for any reason...

"... liberal billionaire Warren Buffett has donated more than $1.2 billion to abortion organizations from 2001 to 2012. That’s equal to the cost of roughly 2.7 million first-trimester abortions – more than twice the number of abortions that occur in an entire year in the United States.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/05/13/warren-buffet-donates-12-billion-to-abortion-groups/

DougMacG · « **Reply #161 on:** May 13, 2014, 09:34:19 AM »

Quote from: Crafty_Dog on May 13, 2014, 07:09:57 AM

http://blog.heritage.org/2014/05/13/kermit-gosnell-anniversary-late-term-abortion/?utm_source=heritagefoundation&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=morningbell

Note to the bloody Dr. Gosnell, former Speaker of the House Nanacy Pelosi and former State Senator from Iliinois, Barack Obama: If the baby is flopping on the table, it isn't a late term abortion that you are performing, NO MATTER the wishes of the mother.

From Crafty's link: "Poll after poll shows the majority of Americans support [a limit on abortions after 20 weeks] and women are more in favor of a 20-week limit than men."

Note to all current and future tea party candidates: There isn't a political possibility of forcing rape victims to carry pregnancy to full term. If you oppose abortion, then focus on what is politically possible - where we have wide and deep political agreement - which is to place a limit on late term abortions, the most human-like of all the fetuses.

G M · « **Reply #162 on:** May 25, 2014, 06:11:59 PM »

My wife was reading a Chinese website and saw an article on how some Chinese were eating late term aborted fetuses. I wish I could unsee the photos from the article.

Horror.

Crafty_Dog · « **Reply #163 on:** June 19, 2014, 09:16:04 AM »

http://fineartamerica.com/featured/the-wait-and-the-reward-anna-bain.html

DougMacG · « **Reply #164 on:** July 02, 2014, 07:09:55 AM »

Seen on a bumper sticker yesterday:

"If it isn't a baby, you aren't pregnant."

DougMacG · « **Reply #165 on:** September 23, 2014, 08:36:06 AM »

Liberal groups push poor women and black women into abortion.
Gender selection abortions are killing girls by the tens of millions.
12 out of 12 recent studies link Abortion to Breast Cancer.
But Republicans are prosecuting a war on women by trying to slow all of that.

http://www.presentation-r2l.org/twelve-out-of-twelve-recent-studies-show-abortion-linked-to-breast-cancer/

Abortion box score: one dead, one injured.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Gender selection abortions are not just in Asia!

"...among American families of Chinese, Korean and Indian descent, the likelihood of having a boy increased to 1.17 to 1 if the first child was a girl, according to the Columbia economists. If the first two children were girls, the ratio for a third child was 1.51 to 1 — or about 50 percent greater — in favor of boys."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/15/nyregion/15babies.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

No wonder Asian American women vote Democrat. You wouldn't want to lose a woman's right to gender select by killing off your own baby girls. It's legal if you make that choice early enough. And this offends no one?

Crafty_Dog · « **Reply #166 on:** October 11, 2014, 11:04:23 AM »

http://www.capoliticalreview.com/capoliticalnewsandviews/this-alabama-judge-has-figured-out-how-to-dismantle-roe-v-wade/

DougMacG · « **Reply #167 on:** December 10, 2014, 08:21:35 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q04-l2cm1oQ&index=33&list=UUvC6KqMFj7ifnd-JH7hYtQA

Please see if this link works. Very powerful video. A nice woman apparently has a hidden camera and asks the clinic staff a lot of innocent questions about what is happening in a late term abortion.

What is human?

By the end, one might ask, what is inhuman? Merriam-webster.com says, inhuman is a: lacking pity, kindness, or mercy : savage <an inhuman tyrant> b : cold, impersonal. Sound more like the abortionist than the fetus.

Crafty_Dog · « **Reply #168 on:** March 26, 2015, 01:54:41 AM »

http://www.lifenews.com/2015/03/25/new-york-house-passes-bill-allowing-shooting-babies-through-the-heart-with-poison-to-kill-them/

DougMacG · « **Reply #169 on:** July 18, 2015, 09:25:04 PM »

Big story, Planned Parenthood has been selling fetal organs.

This goes also have under cognitive dissonance of the left.

The left and the media would have us believe the problem with this is the profit motive. Capitalism is what's wrong they say, not the cutting up of innocent life.

But that misses the point. The problem is this proves that blob of unviable matter has organs. Usable, functional HUMAN organs. Who f'ing knew? Everyone knew. It's a baby growing in the there. This changes everything.

G M · « **Reply #170 on:** July 18, 2015, 09:40:54 PM »

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/black-lives-matter-so-its-time-to-outlaw-abortion/&ved=0CCgQFjADahUKEwiznKPlr-bGAhVIkg0KHd6KCjM&usg=AFQjCNG4eujenzm8VluBc2RrU_SWg20r5w

So outlaw abortion.

I'm sure professional journalist Martha Raddatz will be sure to ask all the dems about this topic.

Crafty_Dog · « **Reply #171 on:** July 18, 2015, 11:07:41 PM »

Doug's point about the selling of fetus organs is correct.

DougMacG · « **Reply #172 on:** July 19, 2015, 06:52:57 AM »

"So outlaw abortion."

Like banning guns, that oughtta stop it. (?)

No. Before you pass laws against the will of the people, you must change minds and mindsets. Can't we get consensus of 98% of scientists (like we hear on other matters) that it is alive and identified as belonging to the human species.

Secondly, you would need a newfound respect for human life, even for helpless, innocent ones, even for black babies - slaughtered at more than 3 times the rate of white babies.

That new acknowledgement and respect would have to reach all the way over to atheists and liberals, against all they've been taught.

Instead of the above, outlaw the most obvious and egregious where people already agree, late term and 'abortions'.

Then define late term to match the 'settled science' recognizing basic things like feeling pain or having functional, marketable organs and tissue.

Let the left fight against this slippery slope they so fear.

There doesn't need to be an endgame of banning all abortions.

G M · « **Reply #173 on:** July 19, 2015, 07:02:48 AM »

Actually I was just pointing out another obvious bit of leftist hypocrisy. Abortion is the left's holy sacrament. Black lives only matter to the left when they can use them to advance their agenda.

DougMacG · « **Reply #174 on:** July 19, 2015, 04:43:01 PM »

Agree. The left's silence on the disparate impact of abortion promotion on black families is deafening.

Another aspect is that legal abortion requires only the consent of the mother, not from the one being killed, sliced up into parts and sold. I'm sorry but that logic is analogous to slave trading being legal with the consent only of the slave owner. But this is worse (killing and butchering versus mistreatment and depriving of liberty) and we and sending taxpayer money into black neighborhoods specifically to promote how good it is.

Somebody on our side ought to be able to make the case that those policies along with greater than 50% dropout and unemployment rates should not earn 98% of the votes.

G M · « **Reply #175 on:** July 19, 2015, 06:37:51 PM »

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/421352/planned-parenthood-body-parts

Choice.

DougMacG · « **Reply #176 on:** July 20, 2015, 02:35:08 PM »

Williamson also uses the term butcher, pretty descriptive. Also harvest but that sounds more like cutting up a plant.

It is not really a choice if you are the baby, the father, or the taxpayer.

In China they kill little girls after they are gender identified. I remember Hillary fighting against this mysogynal genocide as First Lady and as Sec of State. Wait, I guess she never did.

G M · « **Reply #177 on:** July 20, 2015, 05:22:42 PM »

Quote from: DougMacG on July 20, 2015, 02:35:08 PM

Williamson also uses the term butcher, pretty descriptive. Also harvest but that sounds more like cutting up a plant.

It is not really a choice if you are the baby, the father, or the taxpayer.

In China they kill little girls after they are gender identified. I remember Hillary fighting against this mysogynal genocide as First Lady and as Sec of State. Wait, I guess she never did.

If she ever mentioned it, I'm sure a quick donation to the Clinton crime family slush fund could make it go away.

Crafty_Dog · « **Reply #178 on:** July 21, 2015, 08:25:31 AM »

https://www.facebook.com/JoeJudt/posts/10153526426739516

DougMacG · « **Reply #179 on:** July 26, 2015, 03:09:22 PM »

We've been through this before and I'm surprised and disappointed that Rachel doesn't jump back in with the topic front and center.

The fetus (Latin for 'little one') is:

a) alive

b). of the human species

...and a crucial point so often ignored by abortion advocates and apologists,

c). the fetus has UNIQUE DNA, distinct from the mother (and from the father and from everyone else.)

Choice and women's rights are great cliches and misnomers, but whose choice is it? The mother has separate DNA, is very directly related, is in close proximity, is presumed to be looking out for the best interests of her baby, and has complete control only when she acting in that role and capacity. She has no more right to kill her daughter than Adrian Peterson has to whoop his son.

It is a separate and distinct being. Make no mistake, the science is settled.

Liberals including our own express more concern for the comfort of a chicken raised in captivity for food than they do for the most vulnerable and innocent human life.

On Mother's Day, we are thankful for all the things she did for us. Among them, what was more valuable and irreplaceable than struggling through a successful pregnancy and giving live birth?

Was there a life inside the mother before live birth or not? Science knows; certain political factions deny. But then they get caught selling live, functional organs and tissue from that live, human, distinct being.

These body parts are used for research and someday will save lives... ?

If stranded on an island with no food, and help is too far away, would you kill, cut up and eat your friends? Worst case, I hope you would say, only if you had to. 98% of these killings are out of convenience, not due to the mainvreasons they argue, rape, incest or a threat to the mother's life.

Do the research some other way.

G M · « **Reply #180 on:** July 26, 2015, 07:06:34 PM »

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122355/many-manipulations-planned-parenthood-attack-videos

Ah, this is how you are wrong, Doug. These people aren't trading in baby body parts, it is tissue from products of Conception.

Because science!

G M · « **Reply #181 on:** July 26, 2015, 07:55:16 PM »

As we have a serious problem with hunger in this country, despite the awesome economiç recovery of the last 6.5 years, can we use the "products of conception" to make food for the poor?

If not, why not?

DougMacG · « **Reply #182 on:** July 26, 2015, 08:13:05 PM »

Quote from: G M on July 26, 2015, 07:06:34 PM

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122355/many-manipulations-planned-parenthood-attack-videos

Ah, this is how you are wrong, Doug. These people aren't trading in baby body parts, it is tissue from products of Conception.
Because science!

Gallows humor but funny to see them squirm.

Fetus isn't a born baby obviously, it is the "little one". Yes, one day after conception it doesn't look like a baby and one day before birth it does.

"a ten to twelve week fetus looks nothing like a term baby—and is medically incorrect."

That being their view, maybe we can all agree to ban abortion after 10-12 weeks rather than growing them out for harvesting and profits.

How about this, try telling a late term pregnant woman with a knife in her hand that it's not a baby in there and see who gets hurt.

G M · « **Reply #183 on:** July 28, 2015, 09:21:42 PM »

http://ace.mu.nu/Windows-Live-Writer/1b78eef04737_10182/tumblr_ns43bhO02u1qz4s6ho1_1280_2.jpg

G M · « **Reply #184 on:** August 01, 2015, 06:44:23 AM »

http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2015/07/30/guilt-as-power/#undefined

DougMacG · « **Reply #185 on:** August 04, 2015, 08:08:55 AM »

On a billboard I saw in Brainerd MN this weekend:

Abortion
Would it bother us more
if they used guns

Crafty_Dog · « **Reply #186 on:** August 04, 2015, 05:56:58 PM »

https://www.lifesitenews.com/pulse/breaking-blocked-stem-express-videos-may-prove-babies-were-born-alive-befor

DougMacG · « **Reply #187 on:** August 05, 2015, 04:55:34 AM »

Quote from: Crafty_Dog on August 04, 2015, 05:56:58 PM

https://www.lifesitenews.com/pulse/breaking-blocked-stem-express-videos-may-prove-babies-were-born-alive-befor

It is revealing that even the strongest abortion supporters recognize there is only a small, technical point of difference between late term abortion and first degree murder.

Crafty_Dog · « **Reply #188 on:** August 11, 2015, 02:27:32 PM »

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/10/i-don-t-know-if-i-m-pro-choice-anymore.html

Crafty_Dog · « **Reply #189 on:** August 19, 2015, 12:47:59 PM »

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/08/19/planned-parenthood-cut-through-babys-face-to-get-his-intact-brain/?utm_source=e_breitbart_com&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Breitbart+News+Roundup%2C+August+19%2C+2015&utm_campaign=20150819_m127011017_Breitbart+News+Roundup%2C+August+19%2C+2015&utm_term=More

Crafty_Dog · « **Reply #190 on:** September 30, 2015, 02:05:34 PM »

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/29/graphic-content-carly-fiorina-was-right-group-releases-full-abortion-video-mentioned-in-gop-debate/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

ppulatie · « **Reply #191 on:** September 30, 2015, 02:58:51 PM »

The whole abortion issue is just pure manipulation by each side to keep the people divided. Here is why I say that:

1. Roe v Wade settled the issue once and for all. It will never be overturned. And there will never be a constitutional amendment barring it.

2. Pro abortion forces can use the threat of Roe v Wade being overturned so as to generate fund raising and to enhance their own bank accounts.

3. Pro Life forces use Planned Parenthood and other issues to generate fund raising as well.

Meanwhile, it keeps the focus off the other things that government does that is much more important for worrying about.

G M · « **Reply #192 on:** September 30, 2015, 06:13:45 PM »

Quote from: ppulatie on September 30, 2015, 02:58:51 PM

The whole abortion issue is just pure manipulation by each side to keep the people divided. Here is why I say that:

1. Roe v Wade settled the issue once and for all. It will never be overturned. And there will never be a constitutional amendment barring it.

2. Pro abortion forces can use the threat of Roe v Wade being overturned so as to generate fund raising and to enhance their own bank accounts.

3. Pro Life forces use Planned Parenthood and other issues to generate fund raising as well.

Meanwhile, it keeps the focus off the other things that government does that is much more important for worrying about.

Murder is kind of a big deal.

ppulatie · « **Reply #193 on:** September 30, 2015, 06:47:07 PM »

My point was simply that Abortion will never be banned, and that the government uses it to divide and conquer.

G M · « **Reply #194 on:** September 30, 2015, 07:00:57 PM »

Quote from: ppulatie on September 30, 2015, 06:47:07 PM

My point was simply that Abortion will never be banned, and that the government uses it to divide and conquer.

I agree with the second part. Did you view the recent PP sting videos? Did they not make you sick to your very core?

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever."- Thomas Jefferson

Crafty_Dog · « **Reply #195 on:** September 30, 2015, 07:10:55 PM »

I can see ever tighter outer limits on birth control (20 weeks, to 16 weeks, etc) and if we win the White House getting to a 5 or 6 man majority in the SCOTUS.

ppulatie · « **Reply #196 on:** September 30, 2015, 07:51:18 PM »

I saw the videos, but what I said still holds............abortion will never be banned in the US.

SCOTUS screwed up because Roe v Wade should have been a State's Rights decision. SCOTUS overstepped its bounds. Of course, you run into the situation where abortion may be unlawful in one state, but just across the state border, legal in the next state. Kansas City, KS and MO reflect this issue.

There can be some actions taken to limit abortions......a ban on Partial Birth or Late Term abortions, but beyond that, nothing will happen otherwise.

Just another divide and conquer method while the opposing sides reap the monetary benefits.

DougMacG · « **Reply #197 on:** September 30, 2015, 08:35:26 PM »

Yes GM, an innocent life is involved. My personal stories on abortion in case anyone wants to hear them:

At my first political convention I sat next to a guy and at one point asked him about this abortion thing. He told me that when his wife got pregnant a decade earlier, they weren't ready to have children and so she planned to have an abortion. But they didn't and now he has this wonderful daughter. Abortion would have taken her life, but he didn't know that then because he didn't know her. To me, a 32 year old bachelor at the time, that story flew mostly over my head, just words from a guy telling his story sitting next to me. Then just a bit later his wife and daughter walked in and this beautiful little girl ran past me, leaped up and gave her daddy big hug and I melted as his story came to life. That wasn't a growth on the mother; it was a kid!

My own daughter Maya was scheduled to be an abortion statistic. We were unmarried, her mom suffered from ... difficulties, and at one point she was scheduled to be terminated. Had she been terminated my life changing problem of telling my family about an 'illegitimate' child (oxymoron) would have instantly gone away. Instead a baby was born, I won custody, both families came together and 21 years later she has already achieved amazing things, a concert viola player, singing in weddings, straight A student, math major, all conference college tennis player, a truly wonderful and loving, great kid.

My point is that with a little personal experience you can easily know this isn't some convenience issue for the mother the left would have you believe. A life is involved. If you let the life live you will find out that out. The mom who would kill off her own for convenience isn't the more valuable of the two IMHO.

Maya and I in Ireland a year ago:

Now that we know she was alive, human and had separate DNA from the mother and father (didn't we know that then?), is it right or wrong to abort?

Whether or not the issue has touched you, rest assured it has touched a million families a year since 1973. Maybe the ones who survived can tell the story.

G M · « **Reply #198 on:** September 30, 2015, 09:09:50 PM »

This nation is crumbling before us. The embrace of evil by mainstream society shocks me.

ppulatie · « **Reply #199 on:** October 01, 2015, 08:41:56 AM »

Doug,

A beautiful young lady. Congrats...............you made a wise decision.

The subject of abortion is such a personal issue that most discussions become highly charged and emotion. Add to that the "conflict" between government, religion, morality and science, and there is no ready answer.

With the availability of many different contraception devices today, abortions should be greatly reduced. However, so many people decry the use of contraception especially on religious grounds, it remains a problem.

What defines life? When does it begin? When the egg is fertilized, when it attaches to the wall, at a specific time period of development, or when it becomes a viable living entity outside of the womb? Everyone has a different opinion and science or law cannot answer that question yet. So the "conflict" will continue.

As to Planned Parenthood, yesterday proved my point on abortion never being banned. Overwhelmingly, Congress approved continued funding for PP. The consequences of defunding PP was too much for even the Pubbies to consider.

Abortion funding for PP is barred by law. But this is such a joke. One simply changes bookkeeping entries showing that the abortion costs came from sources other than the government, and everything is fine. The politicians know this, but they don't care.

Unfortunately, the abortion divide will continue............and both advocating sides will profit from it.

News:

Author Topic: Abortion & Life (Read 145787 times)