Author Topic: Abortion & Life  (Read 167311 times)

ccp

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Crafty_Dog

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #301 on: December 29, 2021, 01:35:59 AM »
Obvious once stated, but it had not occurred to me.

ccp

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #302 on: December 29, 2021, 07:13:02 AM »
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/11/30/how-americans-really-feel-about-abortion-the-sometimes-surprising-poll-results-as-supreme-court-weighs-overturning-roe-v-wade/?sh=106b8f8836c9

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/05/06/about-six-in-ten-americans-say-abortion-should-be-legal-in-all-or-most-cases/

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-11-17/americans-support-the-right-to-abortion

I understand there are moral , practical , and political implications of abortion

With regard to political ,  if the Republicans are looking for a way to change a winning political strategy to a losing one

THIS IS THE WAY

DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE HOW MUCH THIS WILL DRAW OUT THE BABE VOTE !

DO NOT.

Morally the strategy is correct.
At least to limit abortion .

but politically this is a huge mistake.

Here we go again .....


 :-o

G M

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #303 on: December 29, 2021, 07:31:36 AM »
How was slavery polling in the antebellum south? How was the final solution looking in 1930’s Germany?

How does abortion poll with the majority of dead dem voters and 4AM vote counters?

ccp

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #304 on: December 29, 2021, 07:39:56 AM »
GM

not sure what point you are making; 
you can ask many questions

like how is Trump polling in Massachusetts or in DC , or how does Gay marriage poll in Montana etc ......

you think this will not give the Dems a  rallying cry in '22 or '24?

This will be the # 1 issue for many babes

just the reality of the situation


G M

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #305 on: December 29, 2021, 07:49:07 AM »
GM

not sure what point you are making; 
you can ask many questions

like how is Trump polling in Massachusetts or in DC , or how does Gay marriage poll in Montana etc ......

you think this will not give the Dems a  rallying cry in '22 or '24?

This will be the # 1 issue for many babes

just the reality of the situation

People tend to assert that they would have stood up to various historical injustices. Someday, people will look at the atrocities of abortion the way slavery or the Holocaust is looked at now.

ccp

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #306 on: December 29, 2021, 08:03:34 AM »
".People tend to assert that they would have stood up to various historical injustices. Someday, people will look at the atrocities of abortion the way slavery or the Holocaust is looked at now."

Maybe,
but I think we are heading in the opposite direction.

In the future people will be able to pick and choose what kind of babies they have down to the genes.

More over the counter abortion , pregnancy termination meds etc.

Who said you can make abortion illegal but not unpopular?




DougMacG

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Re: Dershowitz : on Roe/Wade and effect on the elections
« Reply #307 on: December 29, 2021, 03:33:55 PM »
https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/republicans-roev-wade-abortion-supremecourt/2021/12/28/id/1050260/

I am afraid so as I have posted

In the first place, this starts with a great legal mind giving a political opinion.  The question for Deshowitz is, is this a wrongly decided case?  Are we deciding Supreme Court cases now by what the political consequences will be?  If so, most likely your party is Democrat.

They cite polling data that is all over the map, mostly pro choice.  For one thing, these STATE issues won't be decided by a national popular poll on an intentionally vague question.

Yes, overturning Roe v Wade involves a lot of political risk for Republicans, number one, overplaying their hand, like trying to restrict abortions in the case of rape.  It's not a good argument to tell rape victims to be more careful who you have sex with. Second, many of those aborted would have grown up to be Democrats.

The two extreme choices that won't fly politically in swing states after Roe is overturned, banning all abortions and banning all restrictions on abortions. The issue will be a test for compromise on both sides.

What happens when you push-poll abortion instead of just asking vague questions:
Knowing that black unborn babies are consistently being killed at five times the rate of white babies, do you fully support doing that?
Knowing that an unborn has a full functioning heartbeat, can feel pain, has DNA totally separate and distinct from the mother, do you still support the right to end this life at any time for any reason?
Do you support the current law that the father has absolutely no say whatsoever in killing what is at least partly his own offspring?
After this watching time lapse video of the fetus growing gradually into a baby narrated with milestones of when different organs are functioning, with that process interrupted by the brutal killing by the abortion doctor on video, are you still fully in support with no reservations?
Knowing that abortions are done 99% for convenience reasons by Planned Parenthood's own numbers, do you still believe no restrictions on killing the unborn can be allowed?
Knowing that very likely we will soon be able to identify gay unborn for "choice" or elimination, not just Down syndrome, do you still favor the unrestricted ability to do that?
And so on.  The issue is brought into the campaign, not just voted on. 

I agree with G M.  This horribly brutal practice will someday make the past acceptability of slavery look reasonable and humane in comparison.

Do political opinions ever change and change rapidly?  Barack Obama ran for President believing (he said) that marriage can only be between a man and a woman.  Wow, that fell fast.  He would kicked off social media today, since he was somewhere to the right of Dick Cheney.

The science and imagery has come a long way since the last time we fought over abortion.

How about we just do the right thing and let the politics take care of itself?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2021, 01:04:47 PM by DougMacG »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #308 on: December 29, 2021, 06:39:56 PM »
"How about we just do the right thing and let the politics take care of itself?"

THIS.

ccp

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #309 on: December 29, 2021, 07:27:07 PM »
"How about we just do the right thing and let the politics take care of itself?"

THIS."

noble yes

political mistake  - we will see
I hope not

" The two extreme choices that won't fly politically in swing states after Roe is overturned, banning all abortions and banning all restrictions on abortions. The issue will be a test for compromise on both sides."

I can see the jockeying on these points up to our necks prior to the elections

after will be too. late... I fear


G M

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G M

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Re: If the USG was willing to do this in Pittsburgh…
« Reply #312 on: March 09, 2022, 08:33:12 AM »
https://thefederalist.com/2022/03/09/bidens-nih-refuses-to-answer-questions-about-university-of-pittsburgh-experiments-on-aborted-babies/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=bidens-nih-refuses-to-answer-questions-about-university-of-pittsburgh-experiments-on-aborted-babies&utm_term=2022-03-09

What Mengele-esque horrors would they be willing to do In someplace like Ukraine?

“This report fails to address our concerns that Pitt’s research may have involved fetal tissue harvested from babies who were born alive or where the abortion methods were altered. This type of research is not only unethical and completely repulsive, but contrary to federal law. We need answers.”

What sort of monster looks down at baby struggling for life, picks up a scalpel and starts “harvesting tissue”? In my professional career, I have dealt with violent sociopaths/psychopaths. I wonder how many of them would be able to do that.

DougMacG

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Abortion, slip of the tongue, she's carrying a what?
« Reply #313 on: March 10, 2022, 06:00:08 AM »
Solicitor General defending Roe Wade and trying to strike down Mississippi law under questioning by Justice Thomas:

"The right is grounded in the liberty component of the Fourteenth Amendment, Justice Thomas," she said, "but I think it promotes interest in autonomy, bodily integrity, liberty, and equality. And I do think that it is specifically the right to abortion here, the right of a woman to be able to control, without the state forcing her to continue a pregnancy, whether to carry that baby to term."

   - Carry that WHAT??!!

https://cnsnews.com/commentary/terence-p-jeffrey/slip-tongue-supreme-court
-----
Justice Breyer famously slipped, called the woman a mother.  Mother of what?  Previous children?

It takes amazing discipline to speak the language of the Left and not slip and mention the truth in front of you.

Or the truth inside of you in this case.  It's alive.  It's a life.  Its a developing human.  Science can identify the species is (same as) human if logic doesn't work for you.  And this life has separate and distinct DNA from the mother and the father.  If it is not a "person" under the 14th amendment, entitled to life, liberty and equal protection under the law, then it still most certainly is a competing life interest, worthy of legislative protection in state statute.

Read at the link for full context.

A dog isn't a person either but the state regulates what you cannot do to it.

To the Left, a "fetus" ranks beneath a dog and a chicken. Even though the ones we kill are 5 times more likely to be Black.

Small aside, I thought Justice Thomas didn't ask questions.  Someone got blindsided.

If the politics were reversed on this, the practice would be called genocide and we would be destroyed.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2022, 06:08:48 AM by DougMacG »

ccp

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abortion illegal at 15 weeks in Kentucky
« Reply #314 on: April 14, 2022, 02:54:21 PM »
« Last Edit: April 14, 2022, 03:01:46 PM by ccp »

ccp

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DougMacG

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« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 08:04:40 AM by DougMacG »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #317 on: May 03, 2022, 04:17:59 AM »
Very bad juju that this got leaked.

G M

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #318 on: May 03, 2022, 04:30:23 AM »
Very bad juju that this got leaked.

How else can the left get it’s state sanctioned paramilitaries mobilized to intimidate the court into reversal?

DougMacG

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #319 on: May 03, 2022, 05:14:21 AM »
Very bad juju that this got leaked.

Yes.  One more great institution infiltrated.

ccp

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this could be the leaker
« Reply #320 on: May 03, 2022, 05:41:35 AM »
https://theancestory.com/who-is-amit-jain/

had ties to Gerstein and Politico

he is raising 2.8 billion fund for a company he is CEO something India

so if he is disbarred he won't give a hoot

will have every lib in the country donating to his fund

(my theory from what I can deduce)




ccp

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DougMacG

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https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/02/supreme-court-abortion-draft-opinion-00029473

update, fixing my subject line. 

The case "Casey" paradoxically honored the principle of stare decisis to uphold Roe in part and simultaneously over-ruled it - in part.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 09:11:17 AM by DougMacG »

DougMacG

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Based on polling, it was the opinion of many that returning this issue to the states and our divided politics will favor the Democrats.

I beg to differ.

Also, it is widely presumed that the leaker wants to sabotage the decision, energize the Left and especially to break the bad news cycle that the Democrats currently face.  To the contrary, this will be an old news story by the time it come out July 3 or so and on election day..  It does nothing to change the reality that gas prices more than doubled, inflation is worst in 40 years, interest rates are increasing, food and other supply shortages are widening, the economy is stagnating or shrinking and real wages are declining - at a record pace.

Against all that, a red-state liberal with an unwanted pregnancy might have to exercise her
 constitutionally protected right of travel in order to legally kill and remove her unborn. 

It's a good thing we still have a constitution.

On the Dem Left side of it, this politically undesirable decision was made possible by the un-democratic Senate and Electoral College, both strange, undesirable relics of our racist, outdated constitution. 
« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 11:51:28 AM by DougMacG »

G M

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The left threatens violence
« Reply #324 on: May 03, 2022, 12:33:38 PM »
Very bad juju that this got leaked.

How else can the left get it’s state sanctioned paramilitaries mobilized to intimidate the court into reversal?

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/05/burn-democrats-leftists-call-violence-following-leaked-scotus-abortion-ruling/

Why? Because they face no penalty.



ccp

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #325 on: May 03, 2022, 02:34:34 PM »
"based on polling, it was the opinion of many that returning this issue to the states and our divided politics will favor the Democrats.

I beg to differ.

Also, it is widely presumed that the leaker wants to sabotage the decision, energize the Left and especially to break the bad news cycle that the Democrats currently face.  To the contrary, this will be an old news story by the time it come out July 3 or so and on election day..  It does nothing to change the reality that gas prices more than doubled, inflation is worst in 40 years, interest rates are increasing, food and other supply shortages are widening, the economy is stagnating or shrinking and real wages are declining - at a record pace."

I AM NOT SO SURE:
my suspicions is this WILL knock off some of the crossover independents.
Polls will be out, but of course as GM points out, we have to wait for the few that are not manipulated

such as Trafalgar  I think is most accurate and does not fudge the data to the LEFT agenda



DougMacG

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Abortion, 13-17% and one major political party favor late term abortion
« Reply #326 on: May 04, 2022, 07:09:03 AM »
Polling is all over the map because many don't understand the Supreme Court role in it and many are deceived.  I wonder how many think Roe struck down means no one can get an abortion for any reason.  65 percent of Americans said they oppose reversing Roe.  Same survey found that respondents were perfectly split on whether abortion should be legal, tied at 49 percent.

Less than one third of DEMOCRATS agree abortion should be legal at any time in pregnancy for any reason.

More polling data:
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/what-americans-really-think-about-abortion/

Only 28 percent of Americans favor allowing abortion in the second trimester, and only 13 percent of Americans favor allowing it in the last three months of pregnancy — compared to 60 percent who would allow it in the first trimester.

[Different poll] Nearly three-quarters of Americans would allow abortion only in the first trimester or in the so-called hard cases of rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother, if they would permit abortion at all. A mere 17 percent of respondents told Marist abortion should be legal at any time in pregnancy for any reason, and less than a third of Democrats agreed.

These are complicated issues of life and death.  In America, a constitutional republic, should people in robes [49 years ago] lay down vague arbitrary rules or should the people today through their elected representatives sort it out?

ccp

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #327 on: May 04, 2022, 07:24:54 AM »
Thanks for clarification from latest polls

understanding the complexities of the issues
and how polls can be manipulated by the way questions are asked etc

hope you right

we all want to smash the Dems coming November

Trump candidates all won
in primaries I read - impressive


ccp

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G M

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Re: leak probably not "illegal"
« Reply #329 on: May 04, 2022, 08:57:29 AM »
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/supreme-court-roe-v-wade-leaker/2022/05/03/id/1068352/

Only because it was a leftist operative that did it.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1503

The release was clearly done with the intent to influence the court in this case.

We know that the leftist legal standard will be applied.

G M

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Re: leak probably not "illegal"
« Reply #330 on: May 04, 2022, 09:36:16 AM »
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/supreme-court-roe-v-wade-leaker/2022/05/03/id/1068352/

Only because it was a leftist operative that did it.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1503

The release was clearly done with the intent to influence the court in this case.

We know that the leftist legal standard will be applied.




DougMacG

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Re: Abortion, The Atlantic?!
« Reply #331 on: May 04, 2022, 10:03:21 AM »
 Caitlin Flanagan:

What I can’t face about abortion is the reality of it: that these are human beings, the most vulnerable among us, and we have no care for them. How terrible to know that in the space of an hour, a baby could be alive—his heart beating, his kidneys creating the urine that becomes the amniotic fluid of his safe home—and then be dead, his heart stopped, his body soon to be discarded.

The argument for abortion, if made honestly, requires many words: It must evoke the recent past, the dire consequences to women of making a very simple medical procedure illegal. The argument against it doesn’t take even a single word. The argument against it is a picture. (Source: theatlantic.com)
-----------------
(Doug)
Picture shows image of the small human in the "fetal position".  Hard to deny what it is. 

Science knows what it is.  Religion knows what it is. Common sense knows what it is. 

The procedure used past a certain number of weeks is known as barbaric.  98% of abortions are for convenience reasons.  Even an atheist knows that once it becomes an alive, 'independent existence, killing it is morally wrong.  What the law should say about it is up to the people and their representatives.

I hope Republicans in all states don't overplay their hand.  Exceptions can be made, rape, incest, life of the mother and even for very early term.

« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 10:06:17 AM by DougMacG »

ccp

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Barr: special councel for Grand Jury
« Reply #332 on: May 04, 2022, 02:30:19 PM »

G M

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Re: Barr: special councel for Grand Jury
« Reply #333 on: May 04, 2022, 02:37:19 PM »
which could be used to make the leak criminal:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/spencerbrown/2022/05/03/former-ag-bill-barr-suggests-special-counsel-and-grand-jury-to-probe-scotus-leak-n2606716

time leakers are held to account
for once

See my post from above that states the applicable federal statute.

Nothing will happen.

Crafty_Dog

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« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 08:56:56 PM by Crafty_Dog »


DougMacG

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Re: RBG on Roe
« Reply #336 on: May 05, 2022, 06:04:18 AM »
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/why-justice-ruth-bader-ginsburg-disapproved-of-roe-v-wade?fbclid=IwAR3EakuDg_X1jnm2xW0bg49G0KgeL-ldQZhqjflDLzMbh-fQu-dRNKze8NI

Excellent to see truth.  It was a badly and wrongly decided case, no matter how you feel about abortion.  Same is true with Casey, 1992, which attempted to cure the flaws in Roe.

DougMacG

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Re: Biden on Abortion in 1994
« Reply #337 on: May 05, 2022, 06:07:26 AM »

Crafty_Dog

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Tucker nails it
« Reply #338 on: May 05, 2022, 08:40:53 AM »

G M

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Re: Biden on Abortion in 1994
« Reply #339 on: May 05, 2022, 10:43:24 AM »
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6127592-biden94letter.html

Joe in 1994, 'I voted 50 times against taxpayers funding abortions'.

Why?

He has no idea.

Joe has always been at war with eastasia!

DougMacG

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Biden on Abortion in 1994, and 1973, and 1982
« Reply #340 on: May 05, 2022, 02:59:59 PM »
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6127592-biden94letter.html

When he was more coherent, 1973, he spoke out against Roe v Wade as a new senator. 

“I don’t think that a woman has the sole right to say what should happen to her body,”   - Sen Joe Biden, 1973

He voted against Roe v Wade, 1982.  He signed a constitutional amendment that would allow individual states to overturn Roe v. Wade and make their own decisions about abortions, as the current expected ruling would do.

https://nypost.com/2022/05/04/biden-once-voted-to-overturn-roe-v-wade/
« Last Edit: May 05, 2022, 05:31:36 PM by DougMacG »

G M

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DougMacG

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Re: Abortion, Who should set policy?
« Reply #343 on: May 06, 2022, 01:55:06 PM »
About 11% of the country that believes the Supreme Court should be setting abortion policy.  - YouGov latest poll

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/alitos-ruling-is-what-most-americans-want-on-abortion
------------------
Of the 44% who thinks the federal govt should set abortion policy, 24% of those thought the judicial branch was the best one to do it. 

5 guys in robes that all went to the same law school, or let the people decide, tough choice - if you're an authoritarian.


« Last Edit: May 06, 2022, 04:25:44 PM by DougMacG »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Abortion
« Reply #344 on: May 06, 2022, 02:12:09 PM »
Nice to see the actual data assessed.

DougMacG

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Re: Abortion polling, CNN
« Reply #345 on: May 06, 2022, 06:06:03 PM »
Nice to see the actual data assessed.

More polling, this one CNN.  It's all in how you ask the questions and who you ask.  In summary, people are more pro-choice than pro-life by 58-42 and msm polls can be off in bias by 10-18%, cf Wisconsin 2016, 2020.

More importantly, generic Congressional midterm polling:

"Republicans hold a narrow edge over Democrats on the generic ballot test, 49% to 42% among registered voters, a slight improvement for Republicans compared with the poll conducted immediately before the ruling."
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/06/politics/cnn-poll-abortion-midterms-roe-v-wade/index.html

49-42 isn't a narrow edge; in this case it's insurmountable.  Republicans break even on these polls at -5 and they're up +7.  Registered voter polls skew Dem and CNN tilts Dem, so that lead is a big deal. 

But the BIG, buried story is that the R lead increased after the ruling.  (And this is CNN.)  Who knew??!!

Let's see.  It costs a hundred bucks to fill your tank and go to the lake or to the ocean, to the store and to work and drive the kids.  Mortgage rates doubled if you're buying or selling a house.  Electricity up, heat costs up, food costs through the roof, and now states might tweak the already complicated rules ("due and undue burdens") about when you can or cannot kill your unborn.  So much for a voter to ponder.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2022, 06:18:44 PM by DougMacG »


G M

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ccp

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the only explanation that makes sense is
« Reply #348 on: May 09, 2022, 06:07:47 AM »
it was a conservative who leaked the draft
says Jewish Democrat jurnolister who is going to cash in with a book about knowing Ginsberg for 50 yrs:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/nprs-nina-totenberg-leading-theory-is-conservative-clerk-leaked-abortion-opinion

only a shyster can come up with this theory with the add on :

"it is the only explanation that makes sense "
[Democrats till death - which to me makes NO SENSE - on TOH she gets to call herself a mench]

as for NPR (14% of revenue from Universities ( in other words NPR is one of their propaganda outlets:

In 2010, NPR revenues totaled $180 million, with the bulk of revenues coming from programming fees, grants from foundations or business entities, contributions and sponsorships.[25] According to the 2009 financial statement, about 50% of NPR revenues come from the fees it charges member stations for programming and distribution charges.[25] Typically, NPR member stations receive funds through on-air pledge drives, corporate underwriting, state and local governments, educational institutions, and the federally funded Corporation for Public Broadcasting (CPB). In 2009, member stations derived 6% of their revenue from federal, state and local government funding, 10% of their revenue from CPB grants, and 14% of their revenue from universities.[25][43] While NPR does not receive any direct federal funding, it does receive a small number of competitive grants from CPB and federal agencies like the Department of Education and the Department of Commerce. This funding amounts to approximately 2% of NPR's overall revenues.[25]

ccp

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Just. Alito had to move
« Reply #349 on: May 09, 2022, 07:03:20 AM »
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/05/07/justice-samuel-alito-moved-undisclosed-location/

no surprise
white supremacists are known to be the big terrorist threat in the US   :roll: :|

as per jurnolisters, deep staters (FBI etc.) , and Democrat shysterslisters