Author Topic: Ukraine  (Read 271680 times)

ccp

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1650 on: February 04, 2025, 07:45:22 AM »
" Do I remember correctly that at the time some of us on this forum (e.g. me?) were rather sympathetic to this line of thought? "

I dunno.  But I recall I had been skeptical from day 1.   :-D :wink:

I do also remember the experts thought Russia would crush Ukraine but then we got something don't send Z a plane to escape but send me weapons.


DougMacG

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1651 on: February 04, 2025, 10:47:18 AM »
"Two fellows who purport to speak for America but didn't ever win any national elections."

Do I remember correctly that at the time some of us on this forum (e.g. me?) were rather sympathetic to this line of thought?

Me too. I was definitely sympathetic to helping Ukraine stand up to Russia.

My point above being that two members of the party out of power who both had failed presidential attempts are telling the Ukranian crowd that they have the full support of America behind them, when in fact they have the divided support of America behind them.

We had differing opinions on the Forum, as I recall, of the degree to which the Russian invasion was triggered by US and NATO words and actions.

There were also differences about how much of our support does Ukraine deserve.
--------------
Replying to another point on the thread...

"BREAKING: President Trump just announced that he is demanding Ukraine to give its rare earth minerals to the United States as payment for all the aid."

   -In the debates of the Iraq War, the US was accused of just wanting Iraq's oil. But we didn't want their territory and we didn't take their oil.

That made our motives more pure. We were righting a wrong, not trying to profit or benefit from it.

It also made us more broke.

In the case of rare earth elements in Ukraine, are we selling our military capabilities to the highest bidder or are we taking sides for our own security interest?

If this is reduced to being transactional, why not sell to Russia in exchange for the minerals in Siberia?

And what about European countries who in total I think have given more than the US has?

Did we pay back France and the Netherlands for their help with our independence?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2025, 10:54:07 AM by DougMacG »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1652 on: February 04, 2025, 12:17:26 PM »
I can see reframing this as any further Russian fukkery with Ukraine after a deal would also be direct fukkery with American strategic interests-- and as such be an implicit but not explicit reassurance to the Ukes.

ccp

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1653 on: February 04, 2025, 12:59:45 PM »
"Did we pay back France and the Netherlands for their help with our independence?"

Well I did go to a college named after Marquis de Lafayette in the 70s.

 :wink:


Crafty_Dog

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"Msyterious disappearance"
« Reply #1655 on: February 11, 2025, 09:39:54 AM »

Crafty_Dog

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Simplicius
« Reply #1656 on: February 13, 2025, 06:07:56 AM »
« Last Edit: February 13, 2025, 06:13:11 AM by Crafty_Dog »

Crafty_Dog

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Crafty_Dog

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Demographic death spiral
« Reply #1658 on: February 13, 2025, 04:29:05 PM »
Third:

I'm not finding it at the moment, but the Ukes are in a demographic death spiral.

DougMacG

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Re: Demographic death spiral
« Reply #1659 on: February 13, 2025, 09:14:15 PM »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1660 on: February 14, 2025, 08:33:54 AM »
Thank you.


Body-by-Guinness

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Peace Talks Supposedly Sans Ukraine
« Reply #1662 on: February 17, 2025, 04:45:28 AM »
It appears the talking point du jour in Dem circles is that Ukraine peace talks began without the Ukraine, as though speaking to one side and then the other as a prelude to something further is unprecedented. Some of the stretches made by the MSM to ding Trump—stretches they would have spared Biden—are sights to behold. Note, additional asshattery also available at the same link:

Morning Report — Trump is starting Ukraine peace talks — without Ukraine
The Hill News / by Alexis Simendinger / Feb 17, 2025 at 6:28 AM
In today’s issue: 

U.S. prepares for Russia talks without Ukraine
Congress upheaval over DOGE
Trump czar denies mayor got a DOJ deal
Gaza ceasefire shaky but in place
Close
The latest in politics and policy. Direct to your inbox. Sign up for the Morning Report newsletter
The Trump administration will meet this week with Russian officials to discuss an end to Russia’s three-year invasion of Ukraine — but no delegation from Ukraine is scheduled to take part.

The meetings, hosted in Saudi Arabia, will feature a cadre of high-ranking U.S. officials — including Secretary of State Marco Rubio, national security adviser Mike Waltz and Middle East envoy Steve Witkoff — working to fulfill President Trump’s long standing campaign pledge to end the war in Ukraine. Rubio landed in Saudi Arabia today, and Kremlin officials confirmed they will be arriving today for talks beginning tomorrow, focusing on restoring ties, Ukraine and preparing a meeting between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Trump.

The trip follows a recent phone call between Trump and Putin,in which Trump said the two leaders “agreed to have our respective teams start negotiations immediately.” The call upended years of U.S. policy, ending Moscow’s isolation over its February 2022 invasion. Trump spoke separately with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

Notably absent from the meeting roster: U.S. special envoy to Ukraine Keith Kellogg, as well as Ukrainian officials. A Ukrainian official said a delegation from Kyiv is in Saudi Arabia to pave the way for a possible visit by Zelensky. Trump on Sunday told reporters Zelensky “will be involved” but did not elaborate on the role he’d play in the talks. The Ukrainian president on Sunday traveled to Abu Dhabi, where his agenda was not immediately clear.

Rubio told CBS’s “Face the Nation” on Sunday “we have a long ways to go” before commencing any potential peace talks with Russia aimed at ending the war, adding that “nothing has been finalized” regarding upcoming meetings.

“We stand ready to follow the president’s lead on this and begin to explore ways, if those opportunities present itself, to begin a process toward peace,” Rubio said.

▪ The Wall Street Journal: Russia’s advance in Ukraine is slowing. Here’s what’s happening and why.

▪ Reuters: The U.S. has asked its European allies what they would need from Washington to participate in Ukraine security arrangements.

During a Saturday speech at the Munich Security Conference, Zelensky said Ukraine must be involved with any negotiations to end the war.

“Ukraine will never accept deals made behind our backs,” he said. “No decisions about Ukraine without Ukraine, no decisions about Europe without Europe.”

Senior administration officials, including Vice President Vance, Rubio and Kellogg had huddled in Munich last week, where the Russia-Ukraine war was a critical topic of discussion. On Wednesday, Zelensky rejected an offer by the Trump administration to relinquish half of the country’s mineral resources in exchange for U.S. support. Zelensky said he rejected the deal because it did not tie resource access to U.S. security guarantees.

As Ukraine remains iced out of the Trump administration’s peace talks, Europe is scrambling to respond. French President Emmanuel Macron will host European leaders today for an emergency summit on the Ukraine war after U.S. officials suggested Europe would have no role in any talks on ending the conflict.

Macron’s office said the “consultation talks” would address the tumultuous change in the U.S. approach to Ukraine and the attendant risks to the security of the European continent.

In a Sunday interview on Fox News, Waltz said U.S. negotiators “will bring everyone together when appropriate,” while specifying that the Europeans will be expected to “provide long-term military guarantees.”

▪ CNN: An isolated Europe worries the U.S. will negotiate on Ukraine badly without it.

▪ NPR: European leaders scramble ahead of Trump's Ukraine summit with Putin.

▪ The Guardian: British Prime Minister Keir Starmer — who raised the possibility of sending troops to Ukraine — will discuss the views of European leaders when he visits Trump at the White House at the end of this month.

▪ The Hill: The foreign minister of Poland, Radosław Sikorski, said that a united European army “will not happen.”

New targets: On NBC’s “Meet The Press,” Zelensky said his country has intelligence that Putin plans to target Russia-friendly Belarus and warned against the weakening of NATO.

“And at that moment,” Zelensky continued, “knowing that he did not succeed in occupying us, we do not know where he will go. There are risks that this can be Poland and Lithuania because we believe — we believe that Putin will wage war against NATO.”

SMART TAKE with NewsNation’s BLAKE BURMAN

Blake Burman, who hosts “The Hill” weeknights, 6p/5c on NewsNation, is off for President’s Day and returns Tuesday.

https://thehill.com/newsletters/morning-report/5148844-morning-report-trump-is-starting-ukraine-peace-talks-without-ukraine/


« Last Edit: February 17, 2025, 10:17:45 AM by Body-by-Guinness »

DougMacG

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Re: Peace Talks Supposedly Sans Ukraine
« Reply #1663 on: February 17, 2025, 10:13:19 AM »
Don't we already know Ukraine's side of the story? They want their country back.

ccp

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https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/volodymyr-zelenskyy-money-ukraine/2025/02/18/id/1199612/

"Zelensky doesn't want peace, he wants money and power," the X user posted, to which Musk replied with a "100" emoji, signifying his agreement."

This is a bit slanderous frankly.  How many Ukes have perished?