Author Topic: Ukraine  (Read 147306 times)


ya

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Russian think tanker
« Reply #1201 on: March 04, 2023, 04:59:06 PM »
Here's a great interview with a prominent Russian think tanker, to get the Russian perspective if interested.

https://youtu.be/g0oNvmonEG0
« Last Edit: March 06, 2023, 06:33:28 AM by Crafty_Dog »


Crafty_Dog

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Who is the fascist here?
« Reply #1203 on: March 08, 2023, 08:54:51 AM »


‘Who is The Fascist Here?’ Ukrainian Chief Rabbi Attacks Russian-Iranian Military Alliance
avatar
by Ben Cohen


https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/03/06/who-is-the-fascist-here-ukrainian-chief-rabbi-attacks-russian-iranian-military-alliance/?fbclid=IwAR0XkChubINOOR2g3TrFaWANR8Zqk5dAEbjPuYgtH8AWaFDdjTs6Cye_X6w

Rabbi Moshe Azman is seen at the dedication of a symbolic synagogue at Babyn Yar, site of a World War II Nazi massacre of Jews, in May 2021. Photo: Reuters/Gleb Garanich

Ukraine’s chief rabbi on Monday issued a blistering attack against Russia’s ongoing claims that the purpose of its invasion is to “denazify” its southern neighbor.

In an extensive interview with the Voice of America’s Ukrainian-language service, Rabbi Moshe Reuven Azman insisted that Ukraine was “a normal country where all nationalities are treated with respect.”

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Russian propaganda has frequently charged that Ukraine’s democratic government is run by “neo-Nazis.” Azman accused Moscow of having “privatized” the Allied victory over Nazi Germany in World War II.

“Now they decide that they can call anyone who disagrees with them ‘fascists,'” Azman said.

MARCH 7, 2023 5:11 PM0
Current and Former New Hampshire Legislators Issue Call to Support Anti-BDS Bill
Two New Hampshire political leaders on Monday called for pubic support of an anti-BDS (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions) bill that...

“Most people in the world understand this, and to those who do not, I say: ‘Look who Russia is with today,'” the rabbi continued. “Iran, which openly declares that its goal is the destruction of Israel, Syria, North Korea. And with Ukraine there is the whole free world. Who is the fascist here? It cannot be that the whole world are fascists, only Russia and Iran are not fascists.”

Azman painted a bleak picture of the political atmosphere in Russia under President Vladimir Putin.

“It is very scary that people did not learn from the experience of the 1930s, when millions of people were shot for denunciations, and some were happy, pointing fingers,” he argued. “Therefore, I do not see any future there.”

Azman echoed the Ukrainian government’s plea for Israeli military assistance in its confrontation with Russia.

“I understand that Israel itself is in a difficult situation, that Russia is constantly blackmailing Israel, because there are Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran on different sides. Therefore, I cannot condemn Israel for this,” he said. “But I explained that the situation has now changed – Iran, which is trying to develop nuclear weapons and threatens to destroy Israel, has started supplying Russia with drones, which they are testing there and will use against Israel. And in return, they receive technology, aircraft, and nuclear specialists from Russia. Therefore, I think Israel should support Ukraine even in its own interests.”

Azman also discussed the Jewish community’s efforts to bring humanitarian aid to Ukraine during the first year of the invasion.

“We brought aid from Israel — backpacks with first aid, everything needed for emergency care. We saw that in many places water pipes were destroyed, so we are bringing water purification systems. We bring medicines from Israel, we bring rehabilitation equipment for the wounded from the Baltic countries,” he said.

G M

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Re: Who is the fascist here?
« Reply #1204 on: March 08, 2023, 10:28:31 AM »
https://cne.news/article/2206-zelensky-takes-further-steps-against-ukrainian-orthodox-church

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/08/1110577439/zelenskyy-has-consolidated-ukraines-tv-outlets-and-dissolved-rival-political-par

How many Ukrainian Christian refugees has Israel allowed to settle in Israel?



‘Who is The Fascist Here?’ Ukrainian Chief Rabbi Attacks Russian-Iranian Military Alliance
avatar
by Ben Cohen


https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/03/06/who-is-the-fascist-here-ukrainian-chief-rabbi-attacks-russian-iranian-military-alliance/?fbclid=IwAR0XkChubINOOR2g3TrFaWANR8Zqk5dAEbjPuYgtH8AWaFDdjTs6Cye_X6w

Rabbi Moshe Azman is seen at the dedication of a symbolic synagogue at Babyn Yar, site of a World War II Nazi massacre of Jews, in May 2021. Photo: Reuters/Gleb Garanich

Ukraine’s chief rabbi on Monday issued a blistering attack against Russia’s ongoing claims that the purpose of its invasion is to “denazify” its southern neighbor.

In an extensive interview with the Voice of America’s Ukrainian-language service, Rabbi Moshe Reuven Azman insisted that Ukraine was “a normal country where all nationalities are treated with respect.”

GET THE BEST OF THE ALGEMEINER STRAIGHT TO YOUR INBOX!

SIGN UP!
Russian propaganda has frequently charged that Ukraine’s democratic government is run by “neo-Nazis.” Azman accused Moscow of having “privatized” the Allied victory over Nazi Germany in World War II.

“Now they decide that they can call anyone who disagrees with them ‘fascists,'” Azman said.

MARCH 7, 2023 5:11 PM0
Current and Former New Hampshire Legislators Issue Call to Support Anti-BDS Bill
Two New Hampshire political leaders on Monday called for pubic support of an anti-BDS (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions) bill that...

“Most people in the world understand this, and to those who do not, I say: ‘Look who Russia is with today,'” the rabbi continued. “Iran, which openly declares that its goal is the destruction of Israel, Syria, North Korea. And with Ukraine there is the whole free world. Who is the fascist here? It cannot be that the whole world are fascists, only Russia and Iran are not fascists.”

Azman painted a bleak picture of the political atmosphere in Russia under President Vladimir Putin.

“It is very scary that people did not learn from the experience of the 1930s, when millions of people were shot for denunciations, and some were happy, pointing fingers,” he argued. “Therefore, I do not see any future there.”

Azman echoed the Ukrainian government’s plea for Israeli military assistance in its confrontation with Russia.

“I understand that Israel itself is in a difficult situation, that Russia is constantly blackmailing Israel, because there are Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran on different sides. Therefore, I cannot condemn Israel for this,” he said. “But I explained that the situation has now changed – Iran, which is trying to develop nuclear weapons and threatens to destroy Israel, has started supplying Russia with drones, which they are testing there and will use against Israel. And in return, they receive technology, aircraft, and nuclear specialists from Russia. Therefore, I think Israel should support Ukraine even in its own interests.”

Azman also discussed the Jewish community’s efforts to bring humanitarian aid to Ukraine during the first year of the invasion.

“We brought aid from Israel — backpacks with first aid, everything needed for emergency care. We saw that in many places water pipes were destroyed, so we are bringing water purification systems. We bring medicines from Israel, we bring rehabilitation equipment for the wounded from the Baltic countries,” he said.

G M

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Ukraine will lose
« Reply #1205 on: March 08, 2023, 07:24:21 PM »

ya

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1206 on: March 12, 2023, 09:07:31 AM »

ccp

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1207 on: March 12, 2023, 09:11:57 AM »
well didn't he make a few business trips to Congress?

last time the honorable Joe Biden actually visited him though

 :-D

Crafty_Dog

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GPF: Upcoming Xi-Zelensky phone call
« Reply #1208 on: March 14, 2023, 11:19:56 AM »
Ukraine, China: Xi Plans to Speak With Zelensky for First Time Since Start of Russia-Ukraine War
2 MIN READMar 13, 2023 | 18:57 GMT





What Happened: Chinese leader Xi Jinping plans to speak with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky for the first time since the start of the Russia-Ukraine war in February 2022, The Wall Street Journal reported on March 13. The call will likely take place soon after Xi reportedly visits Moscow, Russia, during the week of March 20 to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Why It Matters: Xi's upcoming communication with Zelensky will constitute an adjustment of Beijing's previous approach to the conflict, and the call's likely timing after Xi's visit to Moscow reflects Beijing's effort to play a more active role in mediating an end to the war in Ukraine (or at least appear willing to do so). Zelensky will likely use the call to attempt to establish more regular contact with Chinese officials and ensure that Kyiv's views on the war are accessible and understood in China, though progress toward these goals is doubtful.

Background: On Feb. 24, China's Foreign Ministry released a 12-point "peace plan" for the Russia-Ukraine war, which, among other points, urged an immediate cease-fire and peace talks, respect for sovereignty, no expansion of defense blocs, no use or threat of use of nukes or chemical or biological weapons, and reliable global supply chains for energy and grains.

G M

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ya

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1211 on: March 15, 2023, 04:48:21 AM »

ccp

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1212 on: March 15, 2023, 06:08:00 AM »
it seems like a game of chicken

for the Russian pilots :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_(game)

or kind of like "Russian roulette":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_roulette

I sense the Russian pilots  will celebrate the winner with a bottle of vodka

Crafty_Dog

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Mustache Boltono: What to do in Ukraine
« Reply #1213 on: March 15, 2023, 07:03:19 PM »
Why Won’t the West Let Ukraine Win Against Russia?
Its defense would be more effective if it didn’t have to fight with one hand behind its back.
By John Bolton
March 15, 2023 3:43 pm ET


New intelligence suggesting that a “pro-Ukraine group” sabotaged the Nord Stream pipelines in September triggered surprising political blowback in Europe. Spurred by potential economic disruption, speculation arose that Ukrainian involvement, direct or indirect, would undercut support for Kyiv’s resistance to Russia’s 2022 invasion. Ukraine denied any responsibility. German authorities suggested it might be a Kremlin “false flag” operation, scripted to throw suspicion on Kyiv.

But even if Ukraine masterminded the raid, why would successfully disrupting Nord Stream imperil foreign assistance? Such a potentially harmful reaction exposes a larger problem, which has repeatedly manifested itself since Russia’s unprovoked aggression. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization has been spooked by Moscow’s threats to “escalate” the conflict if Ukraine isn’t kept on a tight leash. Although President Biden failed, indeed barely tried, to deter Russia’s war, Vladimir Putin has masterfully deterred NATO from responding robustly enough to end the conflict promptly and victoriously. Time to solve this problem is growing short.

Moscow’s successful intimidation highlights Washington’s failure to state clear war objectives and forge a strategy to achieve them. Mr. Biden wants Russia to “lose,” but seems afraid of Ukraine actually “winning.” If he believes America’s official position—restoring Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity—he should reaffirm it, and craft a plan to do so. If not, he should say so. We can then at least have an intelligible debate.

Instead, ambiguous goals and fear of Russian escalation have led to today’s military gridlock. Just before the invasion, Mr. Biden ruled out U.S. military force, with no reciprocal Kremlin response. Days later, he said “no one expected the sanctions to prevent anything from happening.” In May 2022, his defense secretary and national security adviser asked their Russian counterparts to consider a cease-fire, signaling weakness and irresolution.

Russia’s deterrence and NATO’s lack of strategy are further evidenced by internal NATO debates about what weapons to supply Ukraine, whether Polish MiGs, Himars rocket artillery, Abrams tanks, ATACMS munitions, or F-16s. Such disputes over weaponry, when it is needed and where, and Ukraine’s own capabilities, reflect a disjointed strategy, which leads to confusion (or worse) on the battlefield, pretty much where we are. And, to say the quiet part aloud, a prolonged military stalemate can only benefit the much larger aggressor, aided by China and others, as the West aids Ukraine.

Much of NATO’s wrangling over weapons tracks Washington’s insistence that Kyiv not attack targets inside Russia or even Crimea, notwithstanding U.S. recognition of Crimea as sovereign Ukrainian territory. Under this bizarre reasoning, NATO pressures Ukraine not to strike inside Russia, and to spare key assets like Nord Stream, whereas the Kremlin can strike anywhere within Ukraine. Observers, recalling America’s catastrophic Afghanistan withdrawal, could conclude Washington either doesn’t know its own mind or is eager to avoid pressing Moscow too hard militarily. Russia’s deterrence works.

Today, White House policy is essentially: We support Ukraine’s defending itself, but not enough to be too effective. This formula for protracted, inconclusive war ignores risks to America as well as Ukraine. Critical U.S. munitions supplies are being depleted, and our current capacity to restock is insufficient, mirroring concerns about replacing our aging nuclear-powered submarine fleet while also supplying Australia under the Aukus deal. Although it is better we experience these problems now, before America itself comes under fire, shortfalls in U.S. stockpiles buttress isolationists who don’t want to assist Ukraine in the first place.

One thing is plain: Fears of Russian escalation are unwarranted. Our prewar intelligence vastly overestimated Russian combat-arms capabilities, and the passing months show those capabilities steadily diminishing. Where is the hidden Russian army that threatens NATO? If it exists, why isn’t it already deployed in Ukraine? Mr. Putin’s nuclear saber-rattling also has deterred NATO, but for no good reason. Moscow’s threats to date have been bluffs. Only in the most extreme circumstances—total Russian battlefield collapse, or Mr. Putin’s own regime on the verge of ouster—would using nuclear weapons realistically be an option. Accordingly, we should focus on deterring Mr. Putin in those scenarios, including threatening his own demise, rather than let his bluffing deter us.

The Biden administration may not intend it, but its doubt and hesitation both impede the war effort and open the door politically to those who oppose U.S. aid entirely. Hence the urgent need to state our war objectives clearly. Failure to do so exposes Ukraine’s supporters to claims they are granting Kyiv a “blank check” or that we are in another “endless war” (after 13 months and no U.S. casualties). While this is a domestic political problem, it also reflects national-security leadership failures. Mr. Biden needs to get his act together.

Mr. Bolton is author of “The Room Where It Happened: A White House Memoir.” He served as the president’s national security adviser, 2018-19, and ambassador to the United Nations, 2005-06.

G M

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Re: Mustache Boltono: What to do in Ukraine
« Reply #1214 on: March 15, 2023, 09:08:50 PM »
Intellectually and morally bankrupt.



Why Won’t the West Let Ukraine Win Against Russia?
Its defense would be more effective if it didn’t have to fight with one hand behind its back.
By John Bolton
March 15, 2023 3:43 pm ET


New intelligence suggesting that a “pro-Ukraine group” sabotaged the Nord Stream pipelines in September triggered surprising political blowback in Europe. Spurred by potential economic disruption, speculation arose that Ukrainian involvement, direct or indirect, would undercut support for Kyiv’s resistance to Russia’s 2022 invasion. Ukraine denied any responsibility. German authorities suggested it might be a Kremlin “false flag” operation, scripted to throw suspicion on Kyiv.

But even if Ukraine masterminded the raid, why would successfully disrupting Nord Stream imperil foreign assistance? Such a potentially harmful reaction exposes a larger problem, which has repeatedly manifested itself since Russia’s unprovoked aggression. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization has been spooked by Moscow’s threats to “escalate” the conflict if Ukraine isn’t kept on a tight leash. Although President Biden failed, indeed barely tried, to deter Russia’s war, Vladimir Putin has masterfully deterred NATO from responding robustly enough to end the conflict promptly and victoriously. Time to solve this problem is growing short.

Moscow’s successful intimidation highlights Washington’s failure to state clear war objectives and forge a strategy to achieve them. Mr. Biden wants Russia to “lose,” but seems afraid of Ukraine actually “winning.” If he believes America’s official position—restoring Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity—he should reaffirm it, and craft a plan to do so. If not, he should say so. We can then at least have an intelligible debate.

Instead, ambiguous goals and fear of Russian escalation have led to today’s military gridlock. Just before the invasion, Mr. Biden ruled out U.S. military force, with no reciprocal Kremlin response. Days later, he said “no one expected the sanctions to prevent anything from happening.” In May 2022, his defense secretary and national security adviser asked their Russian counterparts to consider a cease-fire, signaling weakness and irresolution.

Russia’s deterrence and NATO’s lack of strategy are further evidenced by internal NATO debates about what weapons to supply Ukraine, whether Polish MiGs, Himars rocket artillery, Abrams tanks, ATACMS munitions, or F-16s. Such disputes over weaponry, when it is needed and where, and Ukraine’s own capabilities, reflect a disjointed strategy, which leads to confusion (or worse) on the battlefield, pretty much where we are. And, to say the quiet part aloud, a prolonged military stalemate can only benefit the much larger aggressor, aided by China and others, as the West aids Ukraine.

Much of NATO’s wrangling over weapons tracks Washington’s insistence that Kyiv not attack targets inside Russia or even Crimea, notwithstanding U.S. recognition of Crimea as sovereign Ukrainian territory. Under this bizarre reasoning, NATO pressures Ukraine not to strike inside Russia, and to spare key assets like Nord Stream, whereas the Kremlin can strike anywhere within Ukraine. Observers, recalling America’s catastrophic Afghanistan withdrawal, could conclude Washington either doesn’t know its own mind or is eager to avoid pressing Moscow too hard militarily. Russia’s deterrence works.

Today, White House policy is essentially: We support Ukraine’s defending itself, but not enough to be too effective. This formula for protracted, inconclusive war ignores risks to America as well as Ukraine. Critical U.S. munitions supplies are being depleted, and our current capacity to restock is insufficient, mirroring concerns about replacing our aging nuclear-powered submarine fleet while also supplying Australia under the Aukus deal. Although it is better we experience these problems now, before America itself comes under fire, shortfalls in U.S. stockpiles buttress isolationists who don’t want to assist Ukraine in the first place.

One thing is plain: Fears of Russian escalation are unwarranted. Our prewar intelligence vastly overestimated Russian combat-arms capabilities, and the passing months show those capabilities steadily diminishing. Where is the hidden Russian army that threatens NATO? If it exists, why isn’t it already deployed in Ukraine? Mr. Putin’s nuclear saber-rattling also has deterred NATO, but for no good reason. Moscow’s threats to date have been bluffs. Only in the most extreme circumstances—total Russian battlefield collapse, or Mr. Putin’s own regime on the verge of ouster—would using nuclear weapons realistically be an option. Accordingly, we should focus on deterring Mr. Putin in those scenarios, including threatening his own demise, rather than let his bluffing deter us.

The Biden administration may not intend it, but its doubt and hesitation both impede the war effort and open the door politically to those who oppose U.S. aid entirely. Hence the urgent need to state our war objectives clearly. Failure to do so exposes Ukraine’s supporters to claims they are granting Kyiv a “blank check” or that we are in another “endless war” (after 13 months and no U.S. casualties). While this is a domestic political problem, it also reflects national-security leadership failures. Mr. Biden needs to get his act together.

Mr. Bolton is author of “The Room Where It Happened: A White House Memoir.” He served as the president’s national security adviser, 2018-19, and ambassador to the United Nations, 2005-06.

ccp

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Bolton big talker
« Reply #1215 on: March 15, 2023, 09:26:04 PM »
"Hence the urgent need to state our war objectives clearly. Failure to do so exposes Ukraine’s supporters to claims they are granting Kyiv a “blank check” or that we are in another “endless war” (after 13 months and no U.S. casualties)"

so how to we win the war in 6 months, John?

send some jets some cruise missiles
or nukes

teach us how to end this without risking escalating to WW3

I hear a lot of bitching but nothing more then tough talk


ccp

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so how many dead are there
« Reply #1216 on: March 15, 2023, 09:32:58 PM »
I keep reading different estimates

one thing that happens a lot is the misunderstanding between
how many killed

vs casualties
even the media seems to get the numbers confused
in many US media I read 200 K Russians killed
in another up to 60 K killed and 200 K casualties

only 100 K Ukrainians killed
I don't believe the Western sources
I have no idea what to believe


Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1217 on: March 16, 2023, 05:47:50 AM »
"I have no idea what to believe"

In these times that is a sign of wisdom.

Regarding Bolton, he has been a major player and is of known conceptual framework.  In other words, he is in the front rank of those qualified to make the case in this moment-- therefore I posted it.


Crafty_Dog

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WSJ on DeSantis
« Reply #1218 on: March 16, 2023, 07:42:03 AM »
Ron DeSantis’s First Big Mistake
The Florida Governor toys with Trumpian retreat on Ukraine.
By The Editorial BoardFollow
March 15, 2023 6:54 pm ET


Ron DeSantis is sketching out a presidential campaign based on his manifest governing success in Florida and as a fearless fighter for principle who ignores the polls. Then how to explain his puzzling surrender this week to the Trumpian temptation of American retreat?

That’s not too strong a way to describe his decision to call the war in Ukraine a “territorial dispute” that isn’t a vital U.S. interest. He told Fox News that giving the Ukrainians long-range weapons and fighter jets ought to be “off the table,” invoking the prospect of nuclear war with Russia. And he called for “peace,” albeit without explaining how to avoid making it a peace of the grave for Ukrainians if the West withdraws its support while Vladimir Putin advances.

***
The argument goes that Mr. DeSantis is reading the political mood: About 40% of Republicans say the U.S. is providing “too much” support for Ukraine, up from about 9% in March last year. Yet some of this is a function of polarized U.S. politics. Many Republicans oppose helping Ukraine because Mr. Biden is doing it, and the mirror image is Democrats from the antiwar left putting Ukrainian flag stickers on their electric cars.


Mr. Biden hasn’t helped public support for Ukraine by tethering his case to bromides about democracy and international “rules,” rather than the U.S. national interest, which for good reason grates on many GOP voters. Mr. Biden hasn’t worked to build coalitions with the hard-power Jacksonians in Congress such as Sen. Tom Cotton. He also hasn’t made a dispassionate case for why keeping an adversary like Mr. Putin off the NATO border and degrading his military power makes the U.S. safer.


Mr. DeSantis has a point that Mr. Biden doesn’t have “defined objectives” in Ukraine—other than giving it enough arms to resist but not enough to drive Russia out of the country. This is a recipe for extended conflict. The Governor also rightly warns about the threat from China and dwindling U.S. weapons arsenals.

But he may regret describing the war in Ukraine as a mere “territorial dispute.” This is flirting with GOP isolationism that has emerged from time to time in history and has usually been an electoral cul-de-sac. The party’s isolationism in the 1930s consigned it to decades in the wilderness, and that naivete was on national display when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. The electoral stigma wasn’t removed until Dwight Eisenhower, the victor of D-Day, rescued the GOP from Republican Robert Taft’s unwillingness to support the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

The modern GOP model is Ronald Reagan, who combined principle with practicality and sold his policy to the public through persuasion. He paired a rapid expansion of U.S. military power with diplomatic efforts to end the Cold War. He saw the struggle against the Soviet Union as moral, but he didn’t hesitate to arm enemies of communism, even unpalatable ones. Aiding Ukraine now is in that Reagan Doctrine tradition.

Reagan also didn’t indulge a false choice between influencing world affairs and managing economic and social problems at home. He saw a roaring economy and cultural cohesion as essential elements of national power. Reagan hated nuclear weapons and wanted to protect against their use. But he didn’t let Soviet threats dictate U.S. actions, as the populist U.S. right is doing now with Mr. Putin.

All of this is captured in a recent Cold War historyfrom William Inboden, and by press reports that Mr. DeSantis recently sat down with Mr. Inboden to discuss foreign policy. Mr. DeSantis is clearly still refining his views, and his remarks on Ukraine left some room to improve them later.

***
Before he joins the campaign in earnest, the Governor may want to consider that the political risks on foreign policy aren’t only from the Trumpian right. Abandoning Ukraine may cost him with GOP voters who think he is bending in fear of Mr. Trump. Mr. DeSantis has sounded more hawkish notes on Russia in the past, and the press will play those up as contradictions. This could become less a policy issue than a matter of character. What does Ron DeSantis believe, anyway?

The politics of Ukraine may also shift as facts on the battlefield do. If Ukraine manages a victory even as Republicans call for retreat, the GOP will have surrendered one of its core selling points as the party voters trust on national security. It would then be all the harder to marshal support and resources for a stronger U.S. military deterrent against China.

And what if Russia swallows all or most of Ukraine? Mr. Putin will then set up shop closer to the Polish border and be even stronger as a malign force in Europe. The U.S. will be drawn deeper into the continent’s problems, not free to focus on the threat posed by China, which in any event will conclude that the U.S. is weaker. Is that the world President DeSantis wants to inherit on Jan. 20, 2025?

***
Reagan is declassé to some on the right, but China and Russia and Iran are combining forces to threaten the U.S. in a way not seen since the 1980s. Still relevant is Reagan’s 1983 warning, in his “evil empire” speech: “Beware the temptation of pride,” the impulse to “blithely” declare “yourselves above it all,” to “ignore the facts of history” and label the contest “a giant misunderstanding” and “thereby remove yourself from the struggle between right and wrong.”

The Gipper’s “peace through strength” remains the benchmark for Republican success in world affairs. Let’s hope there’s still a lane for that kind of candidate in the GOP primary field, or the country and world are in more trouble than we have imagined.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2023, 08:09:41 AM by Crafty_Dog »

ccp

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1219 on: March 16, 2023, 07:46:49 AM »
"Regarding Bolton, he has been a major player and is of known conceptual framework.  In other words, he is in the front rank of those qualified to make the case in this moment-- therefore I posted it."

i do not disagree with you posting him
or even anything he says

but he states we have failed to win in Ukraine via proxy

but I did not see actual specifics on how he would have handled it differently or more importantly now what do we do to win.

what is exactly his strategy
it has to be risky
no ?

I would like to know how he would manage this now
that is all.


G M

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Re: WSJ on DeSantis
« Reply #1220 on: March 16, 2023, 07:47:44 AM »
The WSJoke.

 :roll:

Ron DeSantis’s First Big Mistake
The Florida Governor toys with Trumpian retreat on Ukraine.
By The Editorial BoardFollow
March 15, 2023 6:54 pm ET

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Florida Governor Ron DeSantis makes his first trip in Davenport, Iowa, March 10.
PHOTO: JONATHAN ERNST/REUTERS

Ron DeSantis is sketching out a presidential campaign based on his manifest governing success in Florida and as a fearless fighter for principle who ignores the polls. Then how to explain his puzzling surrender this week to the Trumpian temptation of American retreat?

That’s not too strong a way to describe his decision to call the war in Ukraine a “territorial dispute” that isn’t a vital U.S. interest. He told Fox News that giving the Ukrainians long-range weapons and fighter jets ought to be “off the table,” invoking the prospect of nuclear war with Russia. And he called for “peace,” albeit without explaining how to avoid making it a peace of the grave for Ukrainians if the West withdraws its support while Vladimir Putin advances.

***
The argument goes that Mr. DeSantis is reading the political mood: About 40% of Republicans say the U.S. is providing “too much” support for Ukraine, up from about 9% in March last year. Yet some of this is a function of polarized U.S. politics. Many Republicans oppose helping Ukraine because Mr. Biden is doing it, and the mirror image is Democrats from the antiwar left putting Ukrainian flag stickers on their electric cars.

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Mr. Biden hasn’t helped public support for Ukraine by tethering his case to bromides about democracy and international “rules,” rather than the U.S. national interest, which for good reason grates on many GOP voters. Mr. Biden hasn’t worked to build coalitions with the hard-power Jacksonians in Congress such as Sen. Tom Cotton. He also hasn’t made a dispassionate case for why keeping an adversary like Mr. Putin off the NATO border and degrading his military power makes the U.S. safer.

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Mr. DeSantis has a point that Mr. Biden doesn’t have “defined objectives” in Ukraine—other than giving it enough arms to resist but not enough to drive Russia out of the country. This is a recipe for extended conflict. The Governor also rightly warns about the threat from China and dwindling U.S. weapons arsenals.

But he may regret describing the war in Ukraine as a mere “territorial dispute.” This is flirting with GOP isolationism that has emerged from time to time in history and has usually been an electoral cul-de-sac. The party’s isolationism in the 1930s consigned it to decades in the wilderness, and that naivete was on national display when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. The electoral stigma wasn’t removed until Dwight Eisenhower, the victor of D-Day, rescued the GOP from Republican Robert Taft’s unwillingness to support the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

The modern GOP model is Ronald Reagan, who combined principle with practicality and sold his policy to the public through persuasion. He paired a rapid expansion of U.S. military power with diplomatic efforts to end the Cold War. He saw the struggle against the Soviet Union as moral, but he didn’t hesitate to arm enemies of communism, even unpalatable ones. Aiding Ukraine now is in that Reagan Doctrine tradition.

Reagan also didn’t indulge a false choice between influencing world affairs and managing economic and social problems at home. He saw a roaring economy and cultural cohesion as essential elements of national power. Reagan hated nuclear weapons and wanted to protect against their use. But he didn’t let Soviet threats dictate U.S. actions, as the populist U.S. right is doing now with Mr. Putin.

All of this is captured in a recent Cold War historyfrom William Inboden, and by press reports that Mr. DeSantis recently sat down with Mr. Inboden to discuss foreign policy. Mr. DeSantis is clearly still refining his views, and his remarks on Ukraine left some room to improve them later.

***
Before he joins the campaign in earnest, the Governor may want to consider that the political risks on foreign policy aren’t only from the Trumpian right. Abandoning Ukraine may cost him with GOP voters who think he is bending in fear of Mr. Trump. Mr. DeSantis has sounded more hawkish notes on Russia in the past, and the press will play those up as contradictions. This could become less a policy issue than a matter of character. What does Ron DeSantis believe, anyway?

The politics of Ukraine may also shift as facts on the battlefield do. If Ukraine manages a victory even as Republicans call for retreat, the GOP will have surrendered one of its core selling points as the party voters trust on national security. It would then be all the harder to marshal support and resources for a stronger U.S. military deterrent against China.

And what if Russia swallows all or most of Ukraine? Mr. Putin will then set up shop closer to the Polish border and be even stronger as a malign force in Europe. The U.S. will be drawn deeper into the continent’s problems, not free to focus on the threat posed by China, which in any event will conclude that the U.S. is weaker. Is that the world President DeSantis wants to inherit on Jan. 20, 2025?

***
Reagan is declassé to some on the right, but China and Russia and Iran are combining forces to threaten the U.S. in a way not seen since the 1980s. Still relevant is Reagan’s 1983 warning, in his “evil empire” speech: “Beware the temptation of pride,” the impulse to “blithely” declare “yourselves above it all,” to “ignore the facts of history” and label the contest “a giant misunderstanding” and “thereby remove yourself from the struggle between right and wrong.”

The Gipper’s “peace through strength” remains the benchmark for Republican success in world affairs. Let’s hope there’s still a lane for that kind of candidate in the GOP primary field, or the country and world are in more trouble than we have imagined.

ccp

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1221 on: March 16, 2023, 08:04:32 AM »
"Reagan also didn’t indulge a false choice between influencing world affairs and managing economic and social problems at home. "

not false choice
we have mega problems here at home

"The modern GOP model is Ronald Reagan, who combined principle with practicality and sold his policy to the public through persuasion. He paired a rapid expansion of U.S. military power with diplomatic efforts to end the Cold War"

he did not have ccp to contend with
and 30 trill in debt

" And what if Russia swallows all or most of Ukraine? Mr. Putin will then set up shop closer to the Polish border and be even stronger as a malign force in Europe. The U.S. will be drawn deeper into the continent’s problems, not free to focus on the threat posed by China, which in any event will conclude that the U.S. is weaker. Is that the world President DeSantis wants to inherit on Jan. 20, 2025?"

so WSJ thinks sending F 16 s is the magic answer that will win the war for Ukes?
if not then what do we do
send troops from Jamaica Barbados to help us win in Europe?

another big talker short on substance

is it not obvious the Ukes cannot win this this way by now

how does the WSJ propose we keep this from being endless
from sending more billions over with no gain ?




Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1222 on: March 16, 2023, 08:20:13 AM »
All good points , , , AND , , ,

I liked that the editorial readily acknowledged countervailing points and would offer that "our" POV has its own cognitive dissonances.

For example, now that we have told the Ukes we have their back "as long as it takes" and the Uke people (attention GM, note this does not necessarily include Uke leaders) have genuinely shown great courage and commitment to their freedom from Russia-- what will be made of us if we undo our commitment (stupidly made yes, but that is not the point) to them.  Will the conclusion drawn (e.g. by the Philippines, Australia, Japan, India) not be that once again the Americans are feckless fair-weather allies?  Thus will not our vacillation sabotage our need for allies against China?



G M

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1223 on: March 16, 2023, 09:16:14 AM »
All good points , , , AND , , ,

I liked that the editorial readily acknowledged countervailing points and would offer that "our" POV has its own cognitive dissonances.

For example, now that we have told the Ukes we have their back "as long as it takes" and the Uke people (attention GM, note this does not necessarily include Uke leaders) have genuinely shown great courage and commitment to their freedom from Russia-- what will be made of us if we undo our commitment (stupidly made yes, but that is not the point) to them.  Will the conclusion drawn (e.g. by the Philippines, Australia, Japan, India) not be that once again the Americans are feckless fair-weather allies?  Thus will not our vacillation sabotage our need for allies against China?

Zelensky has the dirt on the Biden crime family and others from the DC Uniparty. Ukraine is where they launder money and Hunter probably raped children while in a blackout state.

The Ukes fighting bravely is like the Gulf Cartel fighting bravely against Los Zetas. It is not our fight and certainly not something we should be risking WWIII over.

It’s a border dispute over a border that has been disputed for ages.

Meanwhile, if anyone trusts the US in any way, except to act in a feckless and stupid manner, they haven’t been paying attention.

ccp

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DougMacG

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Re: Byron York breakdown on DeSantis Ukraine position
« Reply #1226 on: March 17, 2023, 08:05:30 AM »
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/ron-desantis-in-the-mainstream-on-ukraine

Great article ccp.  Too bad we only hear pundit and opponent characterisations of his view when it is so easy to just publish his own words and context.

I thought he was trying to thread a political needle but instead he is presenting the most reasonable approach to a very complicated (and dangerous) situation.

I was also led to believe his view on the Russia vs Ukraine war is opposed to mine when in fact he is articulating my view far better than I can.

These aren't statements that will come back to bite him, like a Governor who knows nothing about foreign policy. These are statements that will guide him well in debates and in future governance.

ccp

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1227 on: March 17, 2023, 08:30:15 AM »
welcome back !

 :wink:


Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1228 on: March 17, 2023, 11:46:11 AM »
WWWOOOFFF!!!

Crafty_Dog

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G M

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Re: Ukraine's secret weapons
« Reply #1230 on: March 19, 2023, 11:52:17 AM »


G M

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Hersh: The cover up
« Reply #1232 on: March 22, 2023, 06:49:49 AM »

ccp

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the silence over the pipeline sabotage is just so peculiar
« Reply #1233 on: March 22, 2023, 07:42:03 AM »
all very strange
how no reports the German government is not saying much about this
and are either being lied to by US Biden
or are in cahoots with the cover up

just all so strange

as for the US MS media to be saying nothing - not surprising since their party is in the WH

if it is a big deal in Germany then why are there (to my knowledge ) reports of their outrage mentioned in US?

clearly there is a cover up of immense proportions here







G M

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Re: the silence over the pipeline sabotage is just so peculiar
« Reply #1234 on: March 22, 2023, 07:44:17 AM »
all very strange
how no reports the German government is not saying much about this
and are either being lied to by US Biden
or are in cahoots with the cover up

just all so strange

as for the US MS media to be saying nothing - not surprising since their party is in the WH

if it is a big deal in Germany then why are there (to my knowledge ) reports of their outrage mentioned in US?

clearly there is a cover up of immense proportions here

The German government knows.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1235 on: March 22, 2023, 08:09:32 AM »
My read on it:

The Germans have been duplicitous in this way for a very long time. 

Nord Stream 1 and 2 are but current incarnations of a well established dynamic-- witness e.g. their backstabs of the embargo against Saddam Hussein, Bush 43's efforts to nip the Iranian nuke program-- in order to do business through the back door.

The precise purpose of NS 1-2 was to enable the Germans to cut a separate deal with Russia, instead of linking their well being to that of Eastern Europe (NATO, Ukraine.)

Erroneous as the policy to move into Ukraine was, now that the fight is underway, at its core removing the Germans of the option of backstabbing was not a stupid idea-- analogous to Cortes burning his ships as he set off to conquer the Aztecs because he did not want his men to change the mind if/when the going got tough.





ccp

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1236 on: March 22, 2023, 08:32:59 AM »
".Erroneous as the policy to move into Ukraine was, now that the fight is underway, at its core removing the Germans of the option of backstabbing was not a stupid idea

you mean by US blowing up the pipeline?

but what has that got to do with the near total media blackout on the matter
(at lease here is US- I don't know about Deutsch land media)

and why is not Germany pissed ?


G M

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1237 on: March 22, 2023, 10:29:03 AM »
".Erroneous as the policy to move into Ukraine was, now that the fight is underway, at its core removing the Germans of the option of backstabbing was not a stupid idea

you mean by US blowing up the pipeline?

but what has that got to do with the near total media blackout on the matter
(at lease here is US- I don't know about Deutsch land media)

and why is not Germany pissed ?

Hersh's story was leaking into German awareness, thus prompting the malignant retards at Langley to come up with the "Ukes on a sailboat" story.


Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1238 on: March 22, 2023, 11:44:10 AM »

"you mean by US blowing up the pipeline?"

Well, a cut out would be a good idea , , ,

"but what has that got to do with the near total media blackout on the matter
(at lease here is US- I don't know about Deutsch land media)"

Nothing, but that was not the point I was addressing.

"and why is not Germany pissed?"

Because to assert being pist would require admission of the backstabbers that they have been.

ccp

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1239 on: March 22, 2023, 12:58:52 PM »
"Because to assert being pist would require admission of the backstabbers that they have been."

well the pipeline was there before Putin invaded Crimea and then the rest of Ukraine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream

so not sure .....

You may be right, but somehow I think something else is going on ......




G M

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In vino veritas
« Reply #1240 on: March 23, 2023, 01:35:02 PM »

ya

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1241 on: March 23, 2023, 05:37:37 PM »
The world is changing, US hegemony is likely over.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1638908528969797632


Crafty_Dog

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Chinese drones coming next month?
« Reply #1243 on: March 27, 2023, 03:57:05 PM »
The Real Reason China is Arming Russia in Ukraine
by Con Coughlin  •  March 26, 2023 at 5:00 am

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Just as Iran has used Ukraine's brutal war to test the effectiveness of its drone and missile technology, so China's emerging industrial-military complex is reportedly looking for opportunities to conduct a rigorous evaluation of its new weapons systems; Chinese arms manufacturers are reportedly keen to test the effectiveness of their new weapons systems in Ukraine.

Chinese drones, which reports say are due to be delivered to the Russian Defence Ministry next month, would enable the Russians to deliver warheads weighing between 35 and 50 kilograms.


Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1245 on: March 28, 2023, 12:42:29 PM »
Hoisted on our globalist petard , , ,

ccp

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forget the F 16s
« Reply #1246 on: March 28, 2023, 01:36:19 PM »
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023/03/28/exclusive-pentagon-tells-senators-it-opposes-sending-f-16s-ukraine-citing-costs-time-constraints/

not as simple as sending 50 F 16 to ukraine and the war is won.

who would have thunk. this ?

I will hold off listening to Mark Levin who will be screaming and ranting about this for days....just kidding

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1247 on: March 28, 2023, 02:15:05 PM »
OTOH if what I reported the other day about China sending lots of drones to Russia some time next month is born our, THAT likely would be a real game changer.

PS:  IMHO the Abrams tank promise was both weak (given under threat from the Germans that they would not send Leopold's otherwise) and stupid (very complex piece of equipment- tricky to keep running and lots of training is required, requires jet fuel for the engines, etc.)

 


Crafty_Dog

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Karl Rove makes the case for the Uke War
« Reply #1249 on: April 02, 2023, 08:20:54 AM »
Put America First by Aiding Ukraine
Besides being moral, it’s in our strategic and economic interest to help stop Putin.
By Karl RoveFollow
March 29, 2023 5:51 pm ET

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Vladimir Putin at the Novo-Ogaryovo residence outside Moscow, March 29.
PHOTO: GAVRIIL GRIGOROV/POOL SPUTNIK KREMLIN/ASSOCIATED PRESS

Neo-isolationists on the right and left dismiss Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as of little consequence to the U.S. To them, it’s a territorial dispute between faraway countries. Some even allege that America is largely responsible for the war: By encouraging democracy’s spread in Eastern Europe, the U.S. unnerved Vladimir Putin. It’s understandable, they say, that the dictator then unleashed his military to subjugate Ukraine.

That’s claptrap. Mr. Putin could have lived in peace with a democratic Ukraine just as Russia has coexisted for decades with neighboring democracies Finland and Norway. And the latter was one of the founding members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. The blame for this war’s death and destruction lies squarely with the man in the Kremlin. It was Mr. Putin’s ambition to reconstruct Russia’s imperial empire that led Russia to seize Crimea in 2014 and invade the rest of Ukraine more than a year ago.

Well either way, the neo-isolationists argue, sending weapons and economic assistance to Ukraine takes away America’s ability to meet our own needs. And, besides, we won’t be affected by the war’s outcome.

More claptrap.

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Ukraine’s heroic resistance to Russia, a power hostile to the U.S., has dramatically improved America’s strategic position world-wide. The Kremlin has become far weaker, while NATO, which includes many of our most trusted allies, has become far stronger and more united than it has been since the Cold War. But if Russia prevails in the war, that progress would be reversed.

A Putin victory would also embolden some very nasty characters on the world stage, including North Korea’s Kim Jong Un, Iran’s mullahs and China’s Xi Jinping. As NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg argues, “Beijing is watching closely and learning lessons that may influence its future decisions. So, what happens in Europe today could happen in Asia tomorrow.”

And Mr. Putin has made clear he’d prefer his bloody adventurism in Europe not to end in Ukraine. In addition to asserting in his July 2021 essay, “On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians,” that the “true sovereignty of Ukraine is possible only in partnership with Russia,” Mr. Putin suggested Lithuania, Moldova, Belarus, and parts of Poland and Slovakia were once integral parts of Russia. The strongman told us he wants to grab more territory, and several of his targets are NATO allies, which the U.S. has pledged by treaty to aid with our armed forces if they’re attacked. Neo-isolationists worry about what weapons and aid to Ukraine are costing America, but pulling our support risks American lives down the road.

There’s more than our strategic interests at stake. A Europe threatened by an aggressive, resurgent and hostile Russia isn’t in our economic interests, either. The European Union bought $349 billion of U.S. goods in 2022; our bilateral trading and investment relationship with the EU is the largest in the world. If Mr. Putin conquers Ukraine and demands fealty from European nations, it will result in fewer purchases of American exports.

You can bet Europe won’t be importing much liquefied natural gas from Louisiana if Mr. Putin conquers Ukraine. The Continent will get its energy from the unchecked dictatorship to the east. And rather than Europe buying everything from computers and farm machinery to consumer goods and business services from the U.S., China and Russia would likely use their “no limits” partnership to pressure Europe to buy from them instead. That would all cost American jobs and economic growth.

A Putin victory in Ukraine would also raise questions in Asia about America’s resolve. Our allies there would likely strengthen trade and investment ties with China at America’s expense. And if China invades Taiwan, say goodbye to the $43.7 billion in goods America sold the island nation in 2022 and our imports of $91.8 billion, mostly chips and electronic components. Remember when the Covid pandemic squeezed semiconductor supplies in 2020? This would be far worse.

And sending military assistance to Ukraine is good for our economy to begin with. Washington is largely paying for American workers to make the weapons, bullets, missiles and equipment we send.

If the U.S. abandons Ukraine after all its courage and sacrifice, it would be a strategic, economic and moral catastrophe that would reduce our influence around the world and damage our economy. Aiding Ukraine is putting America’s interests first.

Mr. Rove helped organize the political-action committee American Crossroads and is author of “The Triumph of William McKinley” (Simon & Schuster, 2015).