Author Topic: Ukraine  (Read 224008 times)

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1400 on: June 28, 2023, 01:49:40 PM »
Putin was Soviet KGB and now the "president for life" of Russia.

You make a distinction without much difference.

G M

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1401 on: June 28, 2023, 02:05:11 PM »
Putin was Soviet KGB and now the "president for life" of Russia.

You make a distinction without much difference.

Putin is a product of that, but he isn’t a marxist.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/how-vladimir-putin-helped-resurrect-the-russian-orthodox-church/article16361650/

If he was, the GAE would love him.

He is hated because he defends Christianity and opposes pedo-groomers.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1402 on: June 28, 2023, 02:07:57 PM »
Might there be some additional reasons?

G M

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1403 on: June 28, 2023, 02:11:06 PM »
Might there be some additional reasons?

Well, Ukraine is where our Oligarchs like to do a lot of their criminal acts and launder money.





Crafty_Dog

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FA: Zelensky's fight after the War
« Reply #1408 on: July 04, 2023, 07:58:31 AM »
If that meme accurately summarizes the facts of the case, then that is a very bad thing.

If inconvenient facts are left out, if is a very dishonest thing. 

In these times, who the hell knows?

Anyway, this is from Foreign Affairs, which definitely is a Trilateral Commission-Globalist outfit, but nonetheless whether we read it forwards or backwards, it raises considerations worth contemplating.

=======================

Zelensky’s Fight After the War
What Peace Will Mean for Ukraine’s Democracy
By Henry E. Hale and Olga Onuch
July 4, 2023
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/zelenskys-fight-after-war

Russia’s war against Ukraine has transformed Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s image. Before Russia launched its full-scale invasion on February 24, 2022, many regarded him as an untested figure whose former career as an actor and comedian did not inspire much confidence. After it began, however, he became—in former U.S. President George W. Bush’s judgment—“the Winston Churchill of our time.”

In the war’s first days, many Western observers assumed that Zelensky would buckle, flee, surrender, or die. Instead, he stayed in Kyiv and led Ukraine with resolve. His popularity skyrocketed. A July 2022 poll conducted by the authors and the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology found that 65 percent of people in unoccupied Ukraine believed Zelensky to be the best man to lead the country to victory. The second most popular choice, former president Petro Poroshenko, had the support of five percent. Another 19 percent either said there was no difference between the politicians or declined to answer. More than 80 percent of respondents described Zelensky as intelligent, strong, and honest.

But when the war finally ends, Zelensky will face major challenges. Wartime leadership requires very different skills and capacities than does leadership during peacetime. Notably, Ukrainians are less confident in Zelensky’s leadership when they are asked to consider the future. In the same July 2022 poll, 55 percent identified Zelensky as the best person to lead the country’s postwar reconstruction, and the share saying there was no difference between him and the alternatives or that refused to answer was 28 percent. To overcome these potential misgivings, Zelensky will have to rebuild and fortify not only Ukraine’s cities and infrastructure but also its democracy. He will have to end the country’s tendency to shape government around personal patronage networks, which are prone to corruption, and craft an inclusive conception of patriotism. He will also need to respect the rules and the spirit of the Ukrainian constitution. Zelensky’s ability to meet these challenges will determine his country’s fate and the future of its democracy.


The Russian invasion rallied Ukraine’s vibrant, inclusive civic nation and strengthened an associated sense of duty and commitment to democracy. Data collected in February 2023 by the MOBILISE Project, showed that approximately 80 percent of Ukraine’s civilian population is involved in the war, through volunteering, protest action, or giving financial support. Others are putting partisan differences aside, uniting in support of the reforms that will be required by EU accession. These positive developments are threatened by Ukraine’s long-standing tradition of what is known as patronalism, which is the feeling that personal connections are necessary to get almost anything done, feeding distrust in the rule of law. This reliance on patrons cultivates deep personal connections among those in one’s own network, but it also spawns nepotism, reliance on bribes, and often violence when trust breaks down. Those in power have repeatedly taken advantage of this situation to create their own political machines that accumulate wealth and suppress opposition. Although the people have repeatedly risen up to thwart Ukraine’s most notorious power grabs, the country’s political class is still prone to corruption and the tendency to favor personal connections over democratic institutions. As long as there is a perception that “everybody does it,” these practices are likely to continue.

It is possible that the sense of unity the war sparked may dissipate when it ends. Of course, the Ukrainian government could replace it with a new sense of national purpose provided by Ukraine’s application to join the EU, which will give new impetus to much-needed reforms. But these reforms could generate enough opposition to drive the country back toward patronalism. EU membership, for example, will require a major adjustment for Ukraine’s businesses, for they will have to become aligned with EU regulations. It will also oblige Kyiv to take steps to eliminate corruption, necessitating extensive reforms of the Ukrainian judicial system. These reforms will put pressure on both ordinary citizens and elites, challenging the latter’s vested interests. Opposition from ordinary people whose businesses will be affected, and from elites whose interests will be threatened, is likely. Thus, the dangers of a return to patronal politics as usual are real. It cannot be guaranteed that the democratic gains the country has made will be sustained. It is possible, although not highly probable, that Ukraine may shift from the patronal democracy it has typically been in recent years—in which a significant amount of corruption has been leavened by a general commitment to democratic transfers of power when incumbents lose elections—to a more authoritarian or centralized system.

When wider political opposition to Zelensky’s government reemerges, as it is likely to do once the war ends, it is possible that Zelensky and his supporters may be tempted to protect their leadership by amassing power for themselves—even if the initial aim is only to push through reforms or rebuild the country. Such justifications have been used by leaders seeking to strengthen their rule in eastern Europe, Latin America, and elsewhere time and again. This kind of ramped-up “presidentialism” could set in motion processes that might undermine reforms. Already, some of Zelensky’s critics have interpreted his removal of the mayor of Chernihiv, Vladyslav Atroshenko, on abuse-of-office charges as a threat to local government. The same critics have charged that the Zelensky administration’s weakening of the country’s oligarchs masks an effort to gain this power for itself. And while it is too early to tell whether this interpretation of his moves is well grounded, the possibility must nonetheless be guarded against.


Zelensky’s far-reaching popularity itself could pose a threat to Ukrainian democracy.

Some of the actions that Zelensky’s government has taken to prosecute the war could also threaten Ukrainian democracy when peace is restored. For example, the February 2022 decision to consolidate most private television channels into a single state broadcaster was arguably necessary at the start of the war as the country struggled for survival. Such an action would be unjustifiable in peacetime. Zelensky’s critics in parliament—the leaders of the European Solidarity party in particular—as well as think tanks and NGOs such as Opora, Chesno, and the Democratic Initiatives Foundation, have publicly and privately voiced concerns that the president may be unwilling to give up this control when the war ends. No leader, after all, relishes being criticized or—as they see it—vigorously attacked and ridiculed, as happens in open societies. But if Ukraine is to continue to deepen its already vibrant democracy, these measures will have to be reversed when the war ends and the threat of Russian aggression is gone.

It is also possible that Zelensky’s far-reaching popularity itself could pose a threat to Ukrainian democracy. There is no one in Ukraine who has anything close to his stature and public support as a political leader. If this level of popularity is sustained, it could lead Zelensky to conclude that he needs to stay in power, effectively denying others the chance to gain the needed stature. Perhaps the greatest thing that U.S. President George Washington ever did, greater even than leading his forces to victory in the Revolutionary War, was to step away from the presidency at a time when he was still revered as a war hero and was far and away the country’s most prominent leader. He thereby set a precedent for the peaceful transfer of power. Shortly before being elected in 2019, Zelensky declared that a president should only serve a single five-year term. A strong case can be made that breaking this particular promise would not harm Ukrainian democracy, and could even bring stability in wartime. But if Zelensky wins re-election, the future trajectory of Ukrainian democracy may come to depend on whether he will abide by the country’s two-term limit. There is currently no indication that he would consider violating it.

POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE NATIONALISM

The rise of civic national identity in Ukraine, an identity that places civic duty and attachment to the country above all else, is one of the great achievements of Ukrainian independence. This identity has been elevated and nurtured by Zelensky and consolidated by the war. Nevertheless, it has been consistently challenged by other visions of what it means to be a Ukrainian. One extreme alternative vision connects national identity solely to ethnocultural identity, according to which the concept of being a good and reliable citizen depends on speaking the right language, holding the right view of the country’s history, and revering the right cultural figures. To adherents of this view, those who do not share these ethnocultural traits are often regarded as a threat. The more nationalist proponents of this exclusive ethnocultural identity are a small minority. And those who could be considered liberal nationalists but who still promote a more ethnoculturally flavored patriotism in parliament, such as those in the European Solidarity party, are quick also to highlight the importance of civic national duty and the centrality of the state. In fact, for most politicians, even right-wing ones, civic and ethnocultural identities can be complementary much as they are in France.

Nonetheless, some politicians may seek political gain by capitalizing on or seeking to exacerbate these divides. There are many historical examples of countries that have been traumatized by brutal wars resorting to more exclusive definitions of the nation in an effort to wall off foreign influence. This happened among some of Ukraine’s western neighbors following World War II and the fall of communism. Such moves can lead to division, oppression, and internal conflict, weakening the country and opening up opportunities for exploitation. In Ukraine’s case, the risk, albeit very small, is that an illiberal nationalist movement can gain renewed support and push for the hardening of more extreme views of Ukrainian identity, according to which true national security and prosperity can only be achieved through some kind of ethnic purification.

Fortunately, there is no indication so far that such exclusivist forms of nationalism are gathering force. Rather, the war seems to have strengthened Ukrainians’ commitment to liberalism and to inclusive ideas of the nation. This has happened even as a strong grassroots shift has occurred toward speaking Ukrainian (many people in Ukraine speak Ukrainian and Russian). Indeed, bilingual citizens are increasingly distancing themselves from other “Russian” aspects of their identities. In fact, there is some evidence this shift is particularly pronounced among southeastern Russophone Ukrainians who are seeing this shift to Ukrainian language practice as an element of their civic duty to the state.

It will be essential for the Ukrainian government to sustain broad national unity as it pursues reform efforts, and Ukrainian reformers can look cautiously to Georgia for inspiration. In 2003, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili successfully capitalized on the optimism generated by the Rose Revolution to immediately and dramatically eliminate petty corruption throughout the government, including in the previously notorious traffic police as well as basic state services. Saakashvili’s brilliance was not so much to propose a technically impressive anticorruption plan as to convince millions that things would actually change, thereby setting in motion a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course, Georgia’s history is also a cautionary tale, with other, high-level corrupt practices continuing. Ukraine needs an even more far-reaching reform effort. What Georgia shows, though, is that it is only when people are convinced that change is coming that they will alter their own behavior and adapt to the new expected reality. Formulating attractive proposals is relatively easy; convincing people that things will change is much more difficult.

The end of the war, whenever it comes, may offer Zelensky and the rest of the country just such a moment. The president will need to find a way to translate the population’s will to fight into an equally strong conviction that the old approach to running the country is no longer possible. And he must then follow through on his promises. The moment will come, and it must be hoped that he lives up to it

ccp

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1409 on: July 04, 2023, 08:23:43 AM »
sounds exactly what Democrat President Woodrow Wilson did during WW1

almost never reported in MSM


G M

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Re: Watch the whole video
« Reply #1411 on: July 04, 2023, 09:33:20 AM »
If the Uke soldier survives, as he sits in a wheelchair in the shattered rump state of what was Ukraine, at least he can take solace in all the westerners who put Ukraine’s flag on their social media accounts!


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/06/27/ukraine-recaptures-donbas-territory-from-russia/

https://www.theburningplatform.com/2023/06/26/extermination/

https://twitter.com/BowesChay/status/1673825546218663939

This could have been avoided, but we must protect Hunter's sweet, sweet Burisma checks and make the world safe for Drag Queen Story Hour!



ccp

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ya

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1416 on: July 16, 2023, 08:52:40 AM »
Different perspective than what the media and NATO is saying

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/incredible-shrinking-nato

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1417 on: July 16, 2023, 09:40:51 AM »
Zero Hedge usually is :-D

Just skimmed it. Intriguing, though a red flag for me the assertion that the Stingers/Javelins did not work.  I thought they took out an excrement load of Russki tanks?

Edited to add:

"headed by a barely functioning senile old man whose furious outbursts are causing his cabinet members to shy away from the Oval Office"

Actually the stories I read had it as "aides", not cabinet members-- exactly the sort of error that I associate ZH with making.  I am signed up on its email list, and regular read its missives, but I do not assume it to be a paragon of journalistic precision.  Definitely pro-Russian.

Here is Zeihan on similar issues:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXE3dM0ZAB0
« Last Edit: July 16, 2023, 08:54:27 PM by Crafty_Dog »

Crafty_Dog

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D1: Crimea bridge damaged
« Reply #1418 on: July 17, 2023, 08:09:04 AM »
July 17, 2023   
         
Russia's bridge to occupied Ukrainian Crimea was attacked overnight, triggering traffic jams that threatened to slow Moscow's efforts to resupply its military in the 17th month of Vladimir Putin's Ukraine invasion.

Location: The Kersh Bridge. The Associated Press calls the $3.6 billion bridge the longest in Europe and a "conspicuous symbol" of Russia's illegal annexation of the Crimean peninsula when Putin initially invaded Ukraine with a covert force in 2014.

Until it's repaired, "Russia will only have one ground supply line—the [coastal] highway on the Sea of Azov—to sustain (or evacuate) its tens of thousands of troops in occupied Kherson and Crimea if [Ukraine] manages to degrade/destroy the bridge," said George Barros of the Washington-based Institute for the Study of War, writing Sunday evening on social media.

Ukrainian officials have not officially confirmed their involvement. Ukrainian Security Service spokesperson Artem Degtyarenko said in a statement Monday, "We are watching with interest as one of the symbols of Putin's regime once again failed to withstand the military load."

Another Kyiv official was similarly coy in response. "The peninsula is used by the Russians as a large logistical hub for moving forces and assets deep into the territory of Ukraine," Andriy Yusov, a spokesperson for Ukraine's military intelligence department, said Monday. "Of course, any logistical problems are additional complications for the occupiers," he added.
=====================================

GPF:

By: Geopolitical Futures
Black Sea activity. Two drone boats exploded under the Kerch Strait Bridge early Monday morning, damaging one section and forcing Russia to close the bridge to traffic. The bridge links Russia to Crimea and is a vital supply route for Russian forces in southern Ukraine. Meanwhile, the Black Sea grain corridor, which since July 2022 had enabled the safe export of Ukrainian grains by ship, expired on Monday after Russia refused to extend it. A Kremlin spokesperson said Moscow would return to the agreement when its demands on Russian fertilizer exports and the removal of sanctions are met. Russia’s Foreign Ministry said in a statement that Russia had withdrawn its guarantees for safe navigation in the northwestern section of the Black Sea.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2023, 10:38:49 AM by Crafty_Dog »

DougMacG

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Crafty_Dog

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Crafty_Dog

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Hmmm
« Reply #1422 on: July 21, 2023, 08:29:49 AM »


China and Ukraine. China’s vice commerce minister held talks with Ukraine’s deputy economy minister in Beijing. They expressed interest in expanding trade, including Ukrainian exports of grain, edible oil, minerals and industrial products and Chinese electronics exports. The Chinese minister also urged Kyiv to protect the rights and interests of Chinese companies in the country.


ccp

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1424 on: August 14, 2023, 10:33:29 AM »
I keep haring from pro Ukranian hawks "expert" analysts hat we could have won this if only we handed out what Ukraine really needs in weapons "to win this"

first it was tanks

then jets

then advance jets

now what?

yet I never hear them with specifics

weren't the same experts expecting Russian forces to trample over Ukraine ?

endless know it alls on cable

we should do this , we should do that......

do what ?  what in tarnation should be do - end them our whole stockpile of most advanced weapons they are not trained to use?

here we go again .  always underestimating the enemy when it is communists.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1425 on: August 14, 2023, 03:58:48 PM »
Tragically, it looks like we here we right that it was feckless stupidity to mess with Rusia on its border.



DougMacG

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Re: Interesting read from NRO
« Reply #1428 on: August 31, 2023, 11:11:11 AM »
Very interesting and pulls at the heart strings.

We aren't the ones making the biggest sacrifice.

ccp

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1429 on: August 31, 2023, 11:35:40 AM »
I like the reminder of the Potemkin steps and its history :

https://artsandculture.google.com/story/short-guide-to-the-potemkin-stairs-in-odesa-ministry-of-culture-and-information-policy-of-ukraine/TgXxjAsMz1d_QQ?hl=en

as great a scene in movie history as any other.

I posted once before my grandfather came from Odessa

and escaped the first revolution in '05.

amazing how Russia still dominates this region .

the country with endless strings of strong men leaders .


DougMacG

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1430 on: August 31, 2023, 12:08:32 PM »
Did your grandfather from Odessa see himself as Russian or ukrainian?

Crafty_Dog

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George Friedman disagrees with Gen. Keane
« Reply #1431 on: September 05, 2023, 03:19:40 PM »

September 5, 2023
View On Website
Open as PDF

    
A Shift in Ukrainian Strategy
By: George Friedman
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy announced over the weekend that he replaced his defense minister with someone new – unsurprising, given the exhaustion the minister must have endured since the Russian invasion (and even before). Even so, the move is less about the concern Zelenskyy felt for his defense minister and more about the fact Ukraine has reached a critical stage in the war.

It is so critical, in fact, that a group of senior U.S. generals met with Ukrainian generals on the border with Poland. The meeting was held there to validate the claim that U.S. forces are not involved in Ukraine proper, which is both true and false. U.S. forces are not in Ukraine, but logistical support and strategic advice have been generous. Coupled with the defense minister’s replacement, the message the U.S. delivered was that Ukrainian strategy was going to fail, and a new strategy had to be adopted. Clearly, Zelenskyy listened.

Ukraine’s strategy has been brilliant, especially in the early stages of the war. Rather than attempting to block Russian advances with concentrated forces that Russia could destroy relatively easily, Ukraine distributed its force into small units, each granted a high degree of freedom. The point was to focus on the tactical level rather than create a single, integrated and centrally commanded force. It doomed Russia’s initial invasion. A massed force engaged and slowly attritted by much smaller forces made it impossible for Russia to destroy the Ukrainian army as quickly as it intended. The army’s knowledge and familiarity with the terrain it was fighting on enabled small teams to locate and engage Russian forces and then disappear like phantoms.

The hope was that a discouraged Moscow would simply reconsider its campaign. That didn’t happen; the Russian army instead spent a year trying to capture cities rather than destroying the Ukrainian army. Uncertain as the strategy was, it played to Russia’s strengths in massed forces and artillery. It had the added benefit of, in theory, destroying Ukrainian morale. But given the way the Wagner Group carried the campaign out, the subjugation of the cities took too long, and whatever psychological effects were possible quickly dissipated.

With Wagner now sidelined, the Russian General Staff is now in control, and it has devised a particularly sound, if unimaginative, strategy. In reverting to its earlier strategy, Russia is massing forces in order to force the Ukrainian army to fight and, in theory, lose. Moscow now knows the extent to which Ukraine will fight, and it understands the essence of Ukrainian strategy. The possibilities of a Russian victory are therefore higher, to some extent.

U.S. generals believed they could see things more clearly. To them, the time for diffused defense against massed Russian forces is over. The Ukrainian army is now blooded, equipped and experienced with weapons that are appropriate for the next phase of the war. The U.S. evidently thinks that if Ukraine does not change its strategy, it will be defeated. Washington is arguing for massing forces into one or two powerful thrusts to serve as an effective force. Given that it has access to artillery, drones and excellent intelligence, plus a battle-hardened force, the time has come to break the Russian offensive, drive through any gaps and threaten Russian logistics.

To me, there seems to be a small but obvious element of desperation in this move. Ukraine is not beaten, and though both sides are tired, one is defending its homeland and that may give it an advantage. I am reminded of the Vietnam War, where there was an element of teaching the Vietnamese to fight like Americans – i.e., massing and moving. But the Vietnamese were not as eager to fight as the Ukrainians clearly are.

I have no idea what the tone of the meeting on the border was. It’s hard to believe, but Americans don’t always resist others. More likely, they didn’t need to be briefed to know how to behave. In any case, with minimal knowledge of the situation on the ground, I think that a shift in the approach to the battle is needed. And I would guess the new defense minister does too.


ya

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1433 on: September 10, 2023, 06:26:40 AM »
So the G20 is over, and the final communique did NOT criticize Russia over the war with Ukr. This suggests that the G20 countries had no consensus, as to whether Russia is to be blamed for the war. Support for Ukr is winding down.

- Agreed to by the US too.

ya

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1434 on: September 10, 2023, 04:00:57 PM »
Zelensky preparing for Biden visit

https://twitter.com/i/status/1700548524100718622

DougMacG

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Who blew up Nordstream?
« Reply #1435 on: September 17, 2023, 03:08:56 PM »
Analysis and new evidence seems to have gone silent amongst all these investigations. 

This is from June.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/who-blew-up-the-nord-stream-pipeline-suspects-and-theories.html

If Ukraine did it, then it can be judged in the context of war.

If the US did it, it seems a bit dishonest to be denying it.  We are in a Presidential campaign, judging and debating Ukraine support policy, and we don't even know one of the most important pieces of it.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/who-blew-up-the-nord-stream-pipeline-suspects-and-theories.html


Crafty_Dog

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Kirby: Uke aid near end of rope
« Reply #1437 on: October 13, 2023, 10:18:46 AM »

DougMacG

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1438 on: October 19, 2023, 08:52:28 PM »
Europe is outpacing the United States in aid to Ukraine. The Kiel Institute, which closely tracks contributions, estimates total European commitments from member states and institutions as of July 2023 to be over $145 billion, nearly double the United States’ total bilateral commitment of almost $77 billion.

https://www.gmfus.org/news/europes-ukraine-contributions-reveal-reliable-partnership-united-states

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1439 on: October 20, 2023, 06:04:29 AM »


I'm all for it being 100%, but that is good to know.

DougMacG

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1440 on: October 20, 2023, 07:49:05 AM »


I'm all for it being 100%, but that is good to know.

A rare area of disagreement.  From my view, aren't we the largest 'country of Europe', the largest member of NATO, largest adversary of Russia, the ones who will bear the highest cost of it spreads outward, etc.  I don't know what the right amounts are for support and the lack of oversight on the money, but I like that these bold, unprovoked (I know we disagree on that) acts, Crimea 2014 and this now, have resulted in resistance, pushback, losses and quagmire for Russia. Next best thing to defeat IMHO.

If Europe is paying twice what we are, this is not a US war, it is not US vs Russia, and we are not being the world's policeman, and that is good.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1441 on: October 20, 2023, 10:57:17 AM »
Well and reasonably argued.

That said, Ukraine is not part of NATO and Europe's economy is as large as ours.  Europe's chosen path of appeasement has much to do with how this war got started AND WE ARE BUSY ELSEWHERE even as some of Europe stabs our back by trading with hostile powers (China, Iran).  Yes I simplify, but sometimes that is a way of cutting to the chase.



Crafty_Dog

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George Friedman: Extreme Thoughts on Ukraine
« Reply #1444 on: October 27, 2023, 06:38:27 AM »
Answering Readers on ‘Russia, Ukraine and Thinking Extreme Thoughts’
Thoughts in and around geopolitics.
By: George Friedman

I normally try to reply to responses to my articles individually. This has become increasingly difficult as our readership increases and the thoughtfulness and complexity of the questions rise. However, in the responses to my recent article on how to end the Russia-Ukraine war, giving individual answers to every reader was impossible. I still need to answer them, so I will occasionally do it in later articles, like this one. I will focus on the most frequent criticisms and novel ideas. Of course, the fewer the criticisms, the more readily I can respond.

To remind you, I proposed a strategy for ending the Ukraine war. Its premise was that, given performance and forces, Russia could not overrun and occupy Ukraine. The second assumption was that Ukraine could not break the Russian army and reoccupy Russian-held territory. The third assumption was that U.S. weapons and sanctions directed at Russia would not have a greater impact on Russia now than in the past. In addition, the United States would not deploy ground forces.

Therefore, I argued that a military end to the war is unlikely. I argued that the war, like all wars, must end and that a non-military solution needs to be found. Given my premises this is obvious. The Ukrainians would not accept an end, as it could mean the loss of their homeland, in whole or in part. The Russians would not accept it because, contrary to several readers’ thoughts, Russia launched the war out of fear that a force in Ukraine would take Moscow. Separated from hostile forces by just 300 miles (480 kilometers), Moscow has not been so exposed in quite a while. Nations that start wars are frequently motivated by fear. Japan prior to World War II feared a U.S. blockade, depriving it of essential resources and enabling the U.S. to defeat it without a fight.

In the present conflict, no side has been able to find a basis for ending the war, but nor can they continue – and in this I include the United States. Obviously, only a radical solution, an extreme solution, is likely to work.

The U.S. needs to continue to block Russia from encroaching on NATO’s border. Ukraine must hold as much of its land as possible. Russia must demonstrate that it wasn’t beaten and take only a small piece of Ukraine. Therefore, Russia is the problem. It cannot agree to simply end the war.

At the end of World War II, Germany and Japan relented partly because of exhaustion, but also because fairly quickly the Allies allowed – even helped – them to rebuild. This was not meant to solve the problem but indicated that the U.S. did not mean to destroy them. Some readers have said this was only because these countries were totally devastated. I don’t agree. In war there is little fear of what you have already survived. There is dread over and hope for what will come, and that is what the Americans played on.

I am far from a bleeding heart, nor do I particularly like the Russians per se. But ending the war within the framework of the U.S. interest is very much in my interest.

The Russian people and the state have faint dreams of fully joining the advanced industrial world. They have been blocked by a lack of resources, lack of expertise and the war. Russia will in time overcome this, but rapid growth would influence public expectations and shift their views of their own government and the United States. After World War II, quite minimal U.S. efforts using native populations had a dramatic impact. A U.S. offer to aid Russia’s economic recovery may draw Moscow into a different policy. If not, then little is lost. But if so, it might bring about the end of this war. It is certainly possible that it will not work, but if it doesn’t, we can continue the war or find another solution. The Russians may welcome a new economic reality over continuing a war with little hope. But if we don’t offer this or something similar, the war will continue, as the Russians have not lost.

So this answers some questions and criticisms. These seem to me the most powerful criticisms of my last article. I will close with this: Beware of gridlock. When it breaks open, it goes all over the place.

DougMacG

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Re: George Friedman: Extreme Thoughts on Ukraine
« Reply #1445 on: October 27, 2023, 07:06:28 AM »
Very interesting.  Marc, what do you think about that?

I am stuck on moral grounds versus practical ones.  As stated previously, there are no good answers, so we must choose one of the bad ones.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1446 on: October 27, 2023, 09:32:06 AM »
As we all have seen from what I have posted here of him over the years, GF is a deep thinker and IMHO this piece penetrates to deep essences.

I do have trouble with this:  "A U.S. offer to aid Russia’s economic recovery may draw Moscow into a different policy
And, I would like to see him connect what he says here with the implications of what he says for our dealings with the Axis of Evil.   Seems to me what he says has serious potential for being taken as weakness.

Should we go down this path, IMHO it needs to have requirements of the Euros to fulfill their 3% of GDP requirements! And that  doing so is a requirement for us to be obliged under Article 5.

Still, his analytical framework very much deserves being part of the national conversation on this.

ccp

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