Author Topic: Organized & Disorganized Religion and anti-religion  (Read 48778 times)

Crafty_Dog

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Doing well by doing good
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2014, 04:34:03 PM »
http://www.examiner.com/article/joel-osteen-s-church-theft-opens-can-of-worms-jaws-drop-as-folks-do-the-math

BTW, when I am travelling in the South, sometimes I run into this guy's sermons on Sunday mornings.  Not bad.  Does seem he believes in doing well by doing good , , , ,

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Organized & Disorganized Religion and anti-religion
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2014, 10:43:46 AM »
To all my good friends of that break-away faction of Judaism known as Christianity my warmest good wishes and prayers on this Good Friday-Easter weekend.

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LDS: Act for Themselves
« Reply #55 on: August 06, 2014, 09:35:48 PM »

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Of Hobbits, Narnia, and Postwar Belief
« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2014, 10:24:09 AM »
Of Hobbits, Narnia and Postwar Belief
Tolkien and Lewis served in World War I—and emerged with faith intact.
By Joseph Loconte
Aug. 7, 2014 7:20 p.m. ET

This month marks the 100-year anniversary of the start of World War I, the conflict that introduced industrial-scale slaughter to the world. Never before had science and technology—the mortars, machine guns, tanks, barbed wire and poison gas—conspired so effectively to destroy man and nature. The Great War savaged popular beliefs about progress, morality and religion.

Yet for two extraordinary authors and friends, J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, the war deepened their moral and spiritual convictions. Both fought in the trenches on the Western Front and used their experiences to shape their Christian imagination.

The pair met in 1926 as young scholars at Oxford University and went on to produce epic stories of heroism. Tolkien wrote "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" trilogy. Lewis earned fame for "The Chronicles of Narnia," a series of children's books now considered classics. Their tales are fundamentally about a cosmic struggle between good and evil—a theme radically out of step with the spirit of their age.

Many of the 400 postwar memoirs and novels from the 1920s and 1930s are profoundly pessimistic, focusing on the cruelty and senselessness of World War I. Erich Remarque, in his novel "All Quiet on the Western Front," spoke for many: "Now if we go back we will be weary, broken, burnt out, rootless and without hope."

Tolkien and Lewis, however, believed war could be fought for noble purposes. In "The Lord of the Rings," a band of hobbits, a king born as Aragorn and the Wizard Gandalf embark on a quest to destroy the evil Ring of Power. In "The Chronicles of Narnia," the Pevensie children are magically transported from London to Narnia and given a great task by Aslan the Lion: to rescue Narnia from despotism and restore the throne to its rightful line of kings.
Enlarge Image

English novelist and scholar C.S. Lewis in 1950 Getty Images

The authors' use of fantasy is often dismissed as an attempt to forget the wretched realities of postwar Europe. But a careful reading reveals a steely realism that captures the human predicament. Even the most heroic figures feel like modern characters: uncertain, filled with fear and prone to the lust for power.

Near the narrative heart of Tolkien's trilogy is this sobering fact: Not even the central hero, Frodo Baggins, can resist the lure and power of the Ring. When Frodo finally has the chance to destroy the Ring at Mount Doom, he struggles. "I will not do this deed. The Ring is mine," he exclaims. Just so: Every combatant nation in World War I abandoned moral qualms and used any weapon at hand to obliterate the enemy.

The war also dealt a blow to the notion of free will. The utter helplessness of the soldier on the Western Front—mutilated, bombed and bayoneted without mercy—was a recurring postwar theme. Yet the fate of Middle-earth and Narnia depends upon the choices of individuals. In Narnia, Aslan commands the young Jill to seek the lost prince until she has found him "or else died in the attempt." Likewise, Lady Galadriel, the fairest of the elves of Middle-earth, warns the hobbits: "Your Quest stands upon the edge of a knife. Stray but a little and it will fail, to the ruin of all."

Perhaps most controversially, Tolkien and Lewis did not regard war as an unmitigated evil. The experience of the fellowship of combat taught them the great gift of friendship—especially when it was forged for a high and humane purpose.

Where did Tolkien get his idea for the hobbits? Like Lewis, he acquired a profound respect for the ordinary British soldier, having witnessed his remarkable determination under fire. In a letter written after his trilogy was published, Tolkien acknowledged that Sam Gamgee, one of the story's central figures, "is indeed a reflection of the English soldier, of the privates and batmen I knew in the 1914 war, and recognized as so far superior to myself." These creators of myths remind us that real life—torn by sorrow and suffering—has a mythic and heroic quality.

What Tolkien and Lewis saw on the battlefield made it easy for them to imagine worlds ravaged by evil. Nevertheless, fortified by their Christian faith—Tolkien a Catholic, Lewis an Anglican—they believed that God and goodness were the deepest truths about the human story. In Middle-earth and Narnia, the ruin or redemption of every person depends on what side he or she has chosen in the conflict.

Is this so unlike our own world? Think of the Nigerian girls kidnapped by Boko Haram; the civilians caught in the genocidal storm of the Syrian regime; the courageous Malala Yousafzai, shot by the Taliban for wanting Pakistani girls to go to school.

The heroic figure is the one who resists evil, who is willing to lay down his life for his friends. Perhaps the character of Faramir in "The Lord of the Rings" expresses it best: "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." That may be the vision of humanity that our present world needs most.

Mr. Loconte is an associate professor of history at The King's College in New York City and author of the forthcoming "A Hobbit, a Wardrobe, and a Great War: How J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis Rediscovered Faith, Friendship, and Heroism in the Cataclysm of 1914-18" (HarperCollins, 2015).

Crafty_Dog

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G M

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DougMacG

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Organized & Disorganized Religion, Wisdom from Walter Russel Mead
« Reply #61 on: January 05, 2016, 01:21:39 PM »
A Christmas inspired column by Walter Russel Mead well worth your time to read, IMHO, embodying the largest issues humankind faces today.  (read it all)

One for All
WALTER RUSSELL MEAD
The Christmas story suggests that we can somehow try both to be loyal members of our nations, our families, our tribes—and also to reach out to the broader human community of which we are also a part.
http://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/01/01/one-for-all-4/

... People seem pulled in two directions. On the one hand, we form strong group identities and these identities are the basis of our political loyalties; on the other, we recognize universal values and acknowledge a duty, at least in the abstract, to help people everywhere regardless of their race, language, color, or creed.
It’s a puzzle. Human beings need roots in a particular culture and family and those roots shape them; at the same time, human beings have values (like freedom and democracy) and ideas (like the Pythagorean theorem and the laws of thermodynamics) that demand to be recognized as universal. ...


Crafty_Dog

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Monotheism
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2016, 07:06:43 AM »
Moving CCP's post to here:

I was reading Life's magazine on King Tut and was surprised to learn that his father tried to change the multi deity worship of Egypt to a single sun God.  I always thought the Jews were the first to do this.

His father lived and ruled around 1332 to 1322 BC - before Abraham. Ater his death Egypt went right back to a pagan society.  On Wikipedia, reading on monotheism it mentions this but concludes it is not clear if the sun God worship was more a worship of the sun God or meant to mean worshiping of the pharaoh by way of this.

It also mentions that Sigmund Freud tried to link this to the Jews of Egypt having been there and that may have been a factor in the monotheism of the Jews.  This is doubtful because # 1 this would be at least 100 even before Abraham, and certainly long before any Jews might have been in Egypt (which is unclear if and what they were doing there - various theories holding that they were slaves, they were not slaves but workers, perhaps indentured, or were never there in the first place.).  Also the evidence seems to suggest that Egyptians were very unhappy with this renegade pharaoh doing this and quickly reverted back to the old ways after his short reign.  So it doesn't seem logical to think there was any influence on Abraham:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mystery-surrounding-king-tuts-dad-solved/


Crafty_Dog

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The report on the Catholic Church in PA
« Reply #67 on: August 15, 2018, 05:42:01 AM »
I saw on the news that a major decades long study in PA came out showing that literally THOUSANDS of children (and this number excludes the diocese of Philadelphia), mostly boys, were raped and molested by some 300 Catholic priests and very higher ups in the Church and that there was massive cover up by the various levels of the Church, including up to and including Cardinals.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/us/catholic-priests-pennsylvania-church-jury.html

This is far from the first time we have read of such things both in the US and elsewhere in the world, but the depth and thoroughness of the study, MADE WITH THE CHURCH'S OWN RECORDS, raises deep questions about the moral and spiritual validity of the Catholic Church.

G M

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Re: The report on the Catholic Church in PA
« Reply #68 on: August 15, 2018, 11:40:28 AM »
I saw on the news that a major decades long study in PA came out showing that literally THOUSANDS of children (and this number excludes the diocese of Philadelphia), mostly boys, were raped and molested by some 300 Catholic priests and very higher ups in the Church and that there was massive cover up by the various levels of the Church, including up to and including Cardinals.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/us/catholic-priests-pennsylvania-church-jury.html

This is far from the first time we have read of such things both in the US and elsewhere in the world, but the depth and thoroughness of the study, MADE WITH THE CHURCH'S OWN RECORDS, raises deep questions about the moral and spiritual validity of the Catholic Church.

Yes it does.

DougMacG

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Catholic Church scandal
« Reply #69 on: August 27, 2018, 06:14:00 AM »
This scandal has been front page since 2002. People have known about it far longer than that. What they didn't fix when it was first known locally in hundreds and thousands of places, and what they didn't fix when the whole world found out will now bring down the church. What a lousy, rotten shame.

Sex with the child is a crime. Being a priest or in any position of power doesn't make it right, it makes it worse. The institutional side of it makes it organized crime. Now it comes out that this Pope allegedly new and covered it up. Covering up a crime is a crime. Covering up hundreds or thousands of crimes against children allows it to continue which means you are complicit in crimes that destroy lives. In this religion, that is a rot in hell level offense, not just call for a resignation.

I hate to cheapen the severity of this by mentioning the Pope's economic views, but we have established over and over and over again on this board that it hearing to leftist views requires a level of either ignorance, dishonesty, or cognitive dissonance. It should be no surprise that this Pope has his brain and his morals  conflicted.

http://m.ncregister.com/daily-news/ex-nuncio-accuses-pope-francis-of-failing-to-act-on-mccarricks-abuse#.W4PzXSVOk0M

ccp

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Re: Organized & Disorganized Religion and anti-religion
« Reply #70 on: August 28, 2018, 09:25:19 AM »
I am saddened by the spectacle of the extent of and likely the extant of this .

I have learned that evil is not obvious with horns sticking out of  heads.

Even many priests.......... :cry:

Crafty_Dog

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We all knew , , ,
« Reply #71 on: September 02, 2018, 05:56:11 AM »
I could be wrong, but this has the feeling of a tipping point for the Catholic Church for me.


https://www.nationalreview.com/news/bishop-we-all-knew-of-mccarricks-abuse/

None dare speak its name
https://www.weeklystandard.com/mary-eberstadt/the-elephant-in-the-sacristy
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 08:06:31 AM by Crafty_Dog »

G M

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Re: We all knew , , ,
« Reply #72 on: September 02, 2018, 01:21:35 PM »
I could be wrong, but this has the feeling of a tipping point for the Catholic Church for me.


https://www.nationalreview.com/news/bishop-we-all-knew-of-mccarricks-abuse/

None dare speak its name
https://www.weeklystandard.com/mary-eberstadt/the-elephant-in-the-sacristy

Luke 17:2

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

Crafty_Dog

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DougMacG

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Re: Pope Benedict defrocked 400 priests
« Reply #74 on: September 04, 2018, 06:21:58 AM »
http://www.thejournal.ie/pope-benedict-abuse-1270319-Jan2014/

As the first commenter asks, did any of these Priests get prosecuted, go to prison?

Child abuse is a matter for law enforcement, not the church. Unfortunately, very difficult to get accurate testimony and prosecute.

I don't understand how they let the opportunity continue. Why is a priest ever alone with a child anyway but especially after/during this long public record of horrible crime and exploitation.

I realize a lot of this happened elsewhere but under US law Rico racketeering law applies where there is organized crime conspiracy, and cover up is most certainly part of the crime.

Current Pope is certainly not larger-than-life than life after he entered the political fray with his economic opinions that reveal naivety and ignorance. Either weak or complicit in trying to clean up a crime ring and has done and will do little or nothing to help the people. Out he goes or down goes the whole organization, and maybe both. What a horrible human tragedy.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 07:53:26 AM by DougMacG »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Organized & Disorganized Religion and anti-religion
« Reply #75 on: September 04, 2018, 09:33:35 AM »
I could be wrong, but all this seems like the beginning/acceleration of a death spiral for the Catholic Church.

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Pope bends forward for Xi
« Reply #76 on: September 15, 2018, 12:20:21 PM »
The Vatican’s China Syndrome
Rome gives Beijing the power to select its slate of bishops.
52 Comments
By The Editorial Board
Sept. 14, 2018 7:12 p.m. ET
A Catholic church in Youtong village, Hebei province, Chi

Imagine if Donald Trump insisted that the Catholic church give him the right to choose the list of men from which Rome would select American bishops. Ridiculous. So why does it make more sense for the Vatican to concede that right to Communist leaders in China?

That’s the key Catholic concession in a far-reaching deal between Rome and the Vatican announced Friday. The Vatican has agreed to recognize as legitimate seven Chinese priests who had been excommunicated by Rome for accepting their bishop hats without Vatican approval. Two bishops who had remained faithful to Rome will retire to make room for bishops more to Chinese President Xi Jinping’s liking. In exchange, Beijing will officially recognize the pope as head of the Catholic church in China, something it has resisted for decades.

Give China credit for shrewdness. It understands that bishops are at the heart of the Catholic hierarchy as heirs to the early apostles. Over its history the church has sometimes been coerced into deals giving governments a veto over the appointment of a particular bishop, but letting a hostile regime come up with the entire candidate pool puts Rome in the junior role. If Rome vetoes one of China’s choices, the seat goes empty. Why would China care?

This deal has been long in the making and comes as Mr. Xi is in the midst of a crackdown on Christianity and other organized religions and is closing or tearing down churches and mosques. Perhaps the Vatican calculated that with oppression getting worse, even a bad agreement might carve out some breathing room for its faithful on the Chinese mainland.

The deal at least doesn’t include the restoration of diplomatic relations, and thus it doesn’t require the Vatican to break its ties to Taiwan. But this may be only a matter of time. To have any credibility with rank-and-file Catholics, the church would have to settle its religious disputes with Beijing before it granted the favor of diplomatic recognition.

Many Westerners over the centuries have gone to Beijing and come home claiming they had negotiated a great deal—only to find later they’d been had. On the evidence so far, the Vatican is joining this unfortunate list.


WSJ

Crafty_Dog

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The Rajneesh
« Reply #77 on: January 12, 2019, 11:37:43 PM »
I know someone who was part of this but split away:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=Gwx9nqknu-c




Crafty_Dog

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Swedish Church removes LGBT alter for fear it is anti-trans
« Reply #81 on: December 17, 2019, 01:59:46 PM »


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Jordan Peterson
« Reply #83 on: July 04, 2020, 05:20:29 AM »

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Joseph
« Reply #84 on: December 25, 2020, 07:44:50 PM »


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Slavery in the Bible
« Reply #86 on: December 18, 2021, 12:00:44 PM »

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New Bible translation raises questions about ancient Greek word
« Reply #88 on: January 10, 2022, 01:51:02 AM »
New Bible translation raises questions about ancient Greek word

Change accused of ‘gaywashing’

BY MARK A. KELLNER THE WASHINGTON TIMES

An update to the Bible translation used by many mainline Protestant churches has stirred accusations of “gaywashing” over how an ancient Greek word is translated.

At issue: Does arsenokoitai, the ancient Greek word used only twice in the New Testament, mean all same-sex relations or only illicit ones?

The question of how the Bible treats homosexuality, in terms of sexual orientation and conduct, has become a hot-button topic. Gay rights activists say socalled clobber verses condemning same-sex relations refer to temple prostitution and forced sex, not committed partnerships. Evangelicals and others with more orthodox views reject that position. They say the Bible clearly prohibits homosexual acts of any kind.

The New Revised Standard Bible Updated Edition, called “NRSVue” for short, appeared in digital form last month. Printed versions are expected from a range of Protestant and Roman Catholic publishers in May. The updated NRSV is the product of the National Council of Churches, which last revised the text in 1989.

The 2021 update translates arsenokoitai in 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10 as “men who engage in illicit sex” — a change from the 30-year-old NRSV edition’s translation of “sodomites.”

Jennifer Knust, the general editor for the 2021 edition’s New

Testament and professor of religious studies at Duke University, told The Washington Times that “sodomite” was an “anachronism” and was “seriously misleading.”

“The terms’ sodomite’ and ‘sodomy’ were first used in English in the 11th century and have nothing to do with the term arsenokoitai, an obscure Greek term coined from other terms meaning ‘man’ and ‘bed,’” she said via email. “1 Corinthians 6:9 in no way refers to Sodom (the biblical city).”

Michael L. Brown, who hosts the Christian radio talk show “The Line of Fire” and holds a doctorate in Near Eastern languages and literatures from New York University, said Ms. Knust is partially correct. He said the final translation of arsenokoitai in the NRSVue is deficient.

“While the translation of ‘sodomites,’ is anachronistic,” Mr. Brown said in an emailed statement, “translating arsenokoitai as ‘men who have sex with men’ is accurate while rendering it [as] ‘men who engage in illicit sex’ is meaningless. … This new translation, virtually unknown before now in the history of Bible translations, is as misleading as it is misguided, and it must be recognized as a capitulation to culture and a rejection of the authority of Scripture.”

Laura Nasrallah, Yale Divinity School’s Buckingham professor of New Testament criticism and interpretation, was the update’s translator for 1 Corinthians, a message to believers in the ancient city of Corinth written by the Apostle Paul. Speaking with The Times via telephone, she said someone else suggested the “illicit sex” translation.

“I did not suggest that translation. They evidently rejected my translation,” Ms. Nasrallah said.

She said she didn’t know about the change until a reporter emailed questions.

“That’s all fair game,” Ms. Nasrallah said. “There’s a larger editorial board that’s trying to make translations consistent and reconcilable across multiple texts. And I don’t know the inner workings of that editorial board other than to express my deep respect for those editors,” she said.

Ms. Knust said, “I do not remember precisely who proposed this change.”

Friendship Press, the publishing arm of the National Council of Churches, says on its website that it “commissioned the Society of Biblical Literature (SBL), a diverse and learned group of biblical scholars, to direct the revision.”

John F. Kutsko, the society’s executive director and an affiliate professor of biblical studies at Emory University’s Candler School of Theology, said he and Ms. Knust were part of a team that reviewed the work of book editors such as Ms. Nasrallah. Without singling out any individual, he said the panel made the change to the text.

Mr. Kutsko said the team’s consultations were “really pretty robust” and there was no agenda to “produce a political-social” revision of Scripture.

Whoever made the change has done readers a disservice, said Robert A.J. Gagnon, a professor at Houston Baptist University.

The word “sodomites,” Mr. Gagnon said, was “not the most felicitous translation, but at least it had the benefit of making clear to readers exactly what Paul was making clear to his readers: that the behavior has to do with male homosexual practice.”

He said the new interpretation makes Paul’s meaning “so obscured in their new so-called updated translation that nobody has any inkling that it has any reference at all to homosexual practice. That’s intellectually dishonest or intellectually ignorant.” Mr. Gagnon, who has offered to debate Ms. Knust online or in person, wrote “The Bible and Homosexual Practice: Texts and Hermeneutics,” a 2001 analysis of biblical texts relating to homosexuality. Asked whether he had an agenda in opposing the “illicit sex” translation, he replied, “The agenda I have is to arrive at what the biblical text originally means.”

“I’m not interested in lying for the Bible in order to suit my ideology. Unfortunately, they appear to be willing to do just that,” Mr. Gagnon said. “If the evidence for the biblical text doesn’t support the conclusion that arsenokoitai homes in on male-male sexual activity, then I don’t want to buttress an erroneous argument. I’m not going to make an argument just to support some prior ideological position that I want to reach.”

The Rev. Jim Winkler, National Council of Churches executive director, said he was aware that changes “were discussed at the committee [level],” but “who discussed what, I don’t know.” He said all updates in the new release grew “out of a group process.”

The National Council of Churches, which has headquarters in Washington, calls itself “an ecumenical partnership” of 38 Christian communities in the United States, including Protestant, Anglican, Orthodox, Evangelical, African-American and “Peace” churches. The council’s current leadership is drawn from the United Methodists, the United Church of Christ, the Christian Methodist Episcopal Church, the Community of Christ and the African Methodist Episcopal Church.


The New Testament has been revised with new translations that have caused a stir among biblical scholars. One member of the panel reviewing the work said consultations were “really pretty robust” but had no political or social agenda. ASSOCIATED PRES


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Pope Francis says criminalizing homosexuality is wrong
« Reply #91 on: January 25, 2023, 01:37:55 PM »
Pope Francis Says Criminalizing Homosexuality Is Wrong
The pontiff said the church should work for the repeal of laws punishing homosexuality

Pope Francis discussed homosexuality during an interview with the Associated Press at the Vatican.
PHOTO: ANDREW MEDICHINI/ASSOCIATED PRESS
By Francis X. RoccaFollow
Jan. 25, 2023 12:29 pm ET

ROME—Pope Francis said that laws punishing homosexuality are unfair and that the Catholic Church should work for their repeal.

The statement, in an interview with the Associated Press published on Wednesday, is the latest in a series of conciliatory gestures by Pope Francis toward gay people.

He said that more than 50 countries have laws against homosexuality and that some of them prescribe the death penalty. “I think it’s unfair,” he said. “Being gay is not a crime. It is a human condition,” the pope said.

“We are all children of God and God loves us as we are,” the pope said, echoing earlier comments, including his famous 2013 statement about gay priests: “Who am I to judge?”

Pope Francis, who has expressed support for same-sex civil unions, made it clear in the interview that he wasn’t changing church teaching on the morality of homosexual acts.

“Being homosexual is not a crime. It is not a crime. Yes, but it’s a sin. Well, first let’s distinguish sin from crime,” the pope said.

A number of countries in the Muslim world and in Africa have laws against homosexuality, sometimes supported by local Catholic bishops. The Ghana Catholic Bishops’ Conference in 2021 expressed its “unflinching support” for a proposed law that would impose prison sentences to punish gay sex.

The Vatican has said previously that homosexuality shouldn’t carry criminal penalties, though Catholic teaching forbids homosexual acts. Pope Francis’ latest comments are the first time that a pontiff has spoken out against antigay laws.

The pope said that bishops who support such laws, “although they are good bishops, are part of the culture and some still have their minds in that culture.” Such bishops must go through a “conversion process,” the pope said.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, an authoritative compendium of doctrine, says that homosexual acts are “intrinsically disordered” and “under no circumstances can they be approved.” But it also says that people with “deep-seated homosexual tendencies…must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.”

In 2008, the Vatican opposed a United Nations resolution calling for the decriminalization of homosexuality, arguing that the resolution was too sweeping and could be used to pressure countries to legalize same-sex marriage. But a Vatican spokesman said at the time that “no one wants the death penalty or jail or fines for homosexuals.”

In 2021, the pope approved publication of a decree forbidding the blessing of same-sex relationships, on the grounds that God “cannot bless sin.”


G M

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Re: Pope Francis says criminalizing homosexuality is wrong
« Reply #92 on: January 26, 2023, 07:09:25 AM »
To criticize homosexuality is to attack the modern catholic church.


Pope Francis Says Criminalizing Homosexuality Is Wrong
The pontiff said the church should work for the repeal of laws punishing homosexuality

Pope Francis discussed homosexuality during an interview with the Associated Press at the Vatican.
PHOTO: ANDREW MEDICHINI/ASSOCIATED PRESS
By Francis X. RoccaFollow
Jan. 25, 2023 12:29 pm ET

ROME—Pope Francis said that laws punishing homosexuality are unfair and that the Catholic Church should work for their repeal.

The statement, in an interview with the Associated Press published on Wednesday, is the latest in a series of conciliatory gestures by Pope Francis toward gay people.

He said that more than 50 countries have laws against homosexuality and that some of them prescribe the death penalty. “I think it’s unfair,” he said. “Being gay is not a crime. It is a human condition,” the pope said.

“We are all children of God and God loves us as we are,” the pope said, echoing earlier comments, including his famous 2013 statement about gay priests: “Who am I to judge?”

Pope Francis, who has expressed support for same-sex civil unions, made it clear in the interview that he wasn’t changing church teaching on the morality of homosexual acts.

“Being homosexual is not a crime. It is not a crime. Yes, but it’s a sin. Well, first let’s distinguish sin from crime,” the pope said.

A number of countries in the Muslim world and in Africa have laws against homosexuality, sometimes supported by local Catholic bishops. The Ghana Catholic Bishops’ Conference in 2021 expressed its “unflinching support” for a proposed law that would impose prison sentences to punish gay sex.

The Vatican has said previously that homosexuality shouldn’t carry criminal penalties, though Catholic teaching forbids homosexual acts. Pope Francis’ latest comments are the first time that a pontiff has spoken out against antigay laws.

The pope said that bishops who support such laws, “although they are good bishops, are part of the culture and some still have their minds in that culture.” Such bishops must go through a “conversion process,” the pope said.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, an authoritative compendium of doctrine, says that homosexual acts are “intrinsically disordered” and “under no circumstances can they be approved.” But it also says that people with “deep-seated homosexual tendencies…must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.”

In 2008, the Vatican opposed a United Nations resolution calling for the decriminalization of homosexuality, arguing that the resolution was too sweeping and could be used to pressure countries to legalize same-sex marriage. But a Vatican spokesman said at the time that “no one wants the death penalty or jail or fines for homosexuals.”

In 2021, the pope approved publication of a decree forbidding the blessing of same-sex relationships, on the grounds that God “cannot bless sin.”

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Organized & Disorganized Religion and anti-religion
« Reply #93 on: January 26, 2023, 01:55:57 PM »
Some would say not just the modern church , , ,

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Falun Gong
« Reply #94 on: January 29, 2023, 05:29:07 AM »
https://www.theepochtimes.com/falun-gong-founder-li-hongzhi-publishes-why-do-human-beings-exist_5000952.html?utm_campaign=gv-2023-01-28&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Goodevening

By Li Hongzhi
January 21, 2023Updated: January 27, 2023

Mr. Li Hongzhi is the founder of the spiritual discipline Falun Gong. The practice combines meditation and gentle exercises with a moral philosophy centered on the tenets of truthfulness, compassion, and tolerance.

After Mr. Li introduced the practice to the public in China in the early 1990s, an estimated 100 million people started practicing. Since then, the practice has spread to more than 100 countries around the world.

Despite this, in China, the practice has been subjected to extreme persecution by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). This includes a campaign of hate propaganda and censorship by the CCP, both in China and in the West. The Epoch Times, on the occasion of the Chinese New Year, is honored to provide a platform to Mr. Li.

Mr. Li is a four-time Nobel Peace Prize nominee and was nominated by the European Parliament for the Sakharov Prize for Freedom of Thought. He is also the recipient of Freedom House’s International Religious Freedom Award.

The following is the article “How Humankind Came to Be” by Mr. Li, translated from Chinese.

***

How Humankind Came To Be
I would like to first pass along my greetings to everyone on the advent of the Chinese New Year.

New Year’s would normally be a time for sharing a few pleasant remarks about the occasion. But I am seeing imminent danger approaching humanity, and have been called upon by divine beings to pass along, for this reason, several things to everyone in this world. Each of what I am about to disclose is a higher, closely guarded secret, and these are being shared to provide a true picture of affairs, and to give people another chance at salvation.

First is the question of how humankind came about. From the dawn of its creation to its final days, the universe has gone through an exceptionally long passage of time consisting of four stages: Formation, Stasis, Degeneration, and Destruction. When the final point of the Destruction stage is reached, the complete obliteration of everything in the greater cosmic body—which includes the universe in which we exist—takes place instantaneously, and all living things perish!

When a person dies, it is just a matter of his physical body declining and breaking down, while his true soul (which is who he really is, and which does not die with the passing of his physical body) will continue on in a next life, being reborn. So just as the universe goes through formation, stasis, degeneration, and destruction, so too do human beings go through birth, aging, illness, and death. These are laws of the universe, to which even higher beings are subject, only the time span is longer, with the process being more drawn out in proportion to how great the beings are. Life and death are not painful for them, and they remain cognizant throughout these processes—to them, it is as if but changing outfits. Put differently, normally, lives do not really die. But when the universe and the cosmos disintegrate at the final stage of the Formation-Stasis-Degeneration-Destruction process, however, lives will not be reborn, and there will be no more existence of life or matter, with all turning to dust and there being only emptiness. Currently, the human world is experiencing the last period in the Destruction phase of the Formation-Stasis-Degeneration-Destruction progression. Everything has changed for the worse in these end times, as fated, and destruction is thus imminent. And it is for this reason that the world is so troubled. Good thoughts are rare, people’s minds have become twisted, debauchery and drug abuse are rampant, and people subscribe to atheism. These are inevitable in the last stage of the cosmos, and bespeak of the time at which we have arrived!

The Creator cherishes all of the heavenly beings that exist as well as all of the lives that are good and kind, and all of the glorious creations in the cosmos. So at the beginning of the Degeneration stage, He led a number of divine beings to the outermost plane of the cosmic body (known generally as “that which is outside the Divine Realm”), a place where there are no divine beings, and created Earth. But Earth hadn’t the capacity to exist independently; it needed for there to be a corresponding cosmic structure with which it could form a circulatory system involving life and matter. For this reason, the Creator made a larger expanse outside of the Earth, which higher beings refer to as the “Three Realms.” Before the final time of salvation arrived, no higher beings, however great, would be allowed to enter this expanse without the Creator’s permission. The expanse of the Three Realms comprises three major realms: the Realm of Desire (yu), which is made up of the lives on this earth, including humankind; a second realm, the Realm of Likings (se), which is above it; and a third realm, further above, known as the Realm Without Likings (wu se). Each successive realm is higher and more glorious than that below it, though none can compare to the Divine Realm or the many heavenly kingdoms still higher. The “heaven” that people normally refer to is in fact within either the Realm of Likings or the Realm Without Likings, within the Three Realms. Each of the Three Realms has 10 planes within it, making for a total of 33 planes in all, if you include the Three Realms themselves. Human beings reside in the Realm of Desire, and this is the lowest of all planes, with the worst environment. Life is painful and short here, but more dreadful still is the fact that in the human world, few of the things people take to be truths are actually valid. What human beings hold to be true is on the whole considered the opposite in the larger universe (but an exception is the higher truths that holy beings have taught to man). For example, the divine does not consider it right for whomever is victorious in battle to become ruler, for territory to be seized by military force, or for the powerful to be seen as heroes, since killing and forcefully taking from others are involved. That is not the way of the universe, nor how higher beings go about things. Yet in the human world, these are inevitable and accepted. Those are the ways of the human world, but they are contrary to the ways of the universe. Thus, if a person wishes to return to heaven, he must follow true, higher laws and work on himself. Some people are content when they are doing a bit better in life than others. But such people are only comparing themselves with other human beings within this human realm, when everyone here is in fact living in what is considered to be the trash bin of the universe. The Three Realms were established at the outermost perimeter of the cosmic body, and everything here is made up of the lowest, crudest, and filthiest of particles—molecules, atoms, and the like. In the eyes of higher beings, this is where the trash of the universe is cast away. They thus regard this plane of molecules as dust or “clay” and see it as the lowliest of places. This is the origin of the belief held in some religions that man was made by the divine out of clay. Man was indeed formed out of matter at the molecular plane.

When divine beings made man, they did so at the Creator’s behest, and He instructed them to each make human beings in their own unique image. For this reason, there are the white, yellow, black, and other races. While their outward appearances differ, the souls within them were given by the Creator. And that is why they have common values. The purpose that the Creator had in directing divine beings to make man was to make use of man in the final times when He would offer all lives of the greater universe—including holy beings—salvation.

But why would the Creator have divine beings create humans in such a lowly and inferior place? It was because, with this being the universe’s lowest plane, it is the most grueling of places, and only when things are trying and painful may a person elevate himself through spiritual practice and shed his or her karma. When a person, amidst painful experiences, still manages to keep kind thoughts, have gratitude, and be a good person, he or she is growing through it. Salvation is a process of ascending from low to high, and so one has to start from the bottom. Life is trying for anyone living here. There are the tensions between people when they are trying to make out better, there is the terrible state of the natural environment, and there is the fact that just getting by in life takes a great deal of thought and effort, to name just a few examples. All of these circumstances provide people with opportunities to develop themselves and lessen their karma. It is certain that going through hardships can help people to atone for their sins and karma. And anyone who manages to stay good-natured amidst painful situations and interpersonal troubles is going to build up merit and virtue and, as a result, will achieve the elevation of his or her soul.

With the arrival of modern times, the Creator had intended to utilize mainly the human body to save the many lives of the universe. And so the souls originally in the majority of human bodies here were replaced by those of higher beings, who incarnated in them. With a human body, they could reduce their karma and sins by enduring hardship. And in this place that is devoid of truth, they could, by holding fast to the higher truths taught by God and persevering in goodness and kindness, achieve the elevation of their souls. The end times are now upon us, and the Heavenly Gate that leads out of the Three Realms has been opened. The Creator has been selecting for deliverance those who have done as I describe.

Everything in the universe had become impure during the Formation, Stasis, and Degeneration phases, and inferior to when creation was begun. And this is why things are heading for Destruction. In other words, everything in the greater universe has gone bad, the lives of creation are no longer as good as they were in the very beginning, are no longer pure, and all of them have accrued karma and sins. And this accounts for Destruction coming about. This kind of sin is what has been referred to in religious contexts as original sin. So that the universe could be saved, the Creator directed a multitude of higher beings and divine sovereigns to descend to the earth and assume human form in this setting, where they would suffer, elevate, atone for their sins, and forge themselves anew—re-ascending to heaven as a result. (The Creator has been re-making the universe at the same time as saving humankind.) The new universe is perfectly pure and simply glorious. If, in a trying setting like this, a person can still keep his thoughts virtuous; if he can hold his ground against the onslaught of modern values and views, and stick to traditional ones; and if he still believes in the divine in the face of assaults from the atheist and evolutionary camps, then that person will fulfill his purpose: to gain salvation and return to heaven. All of the madness now unfolding in the world was planned as such, for the final phase, by divine beings. Their goal was to test the lives here and see whether they were worthy of salvation, and give them a chance to, in the process, work off their sins and karma while going through difficult things. And all of this was done so that people could be saved and gain deliverance back to heaven.

All of this is to say that the purpose of people’s lives on this earth isn’t to accomplish something in the world. All of the intense efforts and attempts people make in life, and their drive to get what they want, which can even involve resorting to unscrupulous means, only make people immoral in the end. The reason people came to this world and became human was to atone for their sins and karma, and to make significant spiritual progress. People came to this world to gain salvation. They came and assumed human form to await the Creator and his salvation back to their heavenly kingdom. And while they waited, they built up merit over their many past lives, and that was the purpose of people’s rebirths. The troubled nature of this world is meant to make something great of these lives. Of course, there are some people who, when seeking divine help in times of duress, haven’t been satisfied with the outcome and started to loathe God—even turning against Him as a result. Some have even turned to the demonic, dark side, and committed still further sins and made yet more karma. Those whom this applies to had best quickly come around and beg God for forgiveness, if they are still to have a chance of reaching safety. Everything that happens in one’s life—whether it seems warranted or not—is, in reality, the karmic consequence of what one did in one’s past lives, for better or for worse. The amount of blessings and virtue that one built up in one’s past lives determine what fortune is in store in this lifetime, or perhaps the next. If one lives a blessed and virtuous life now, perhaps it will translate in one’s next lifetime into a high position and salary, or it might translate into different kinds of wealth and fortune. And this would also include whether one has a happy family, or even how one’s children turn out, and so on. This is the fundamental reason why some people are wealthy and others poor, why some hold positions of high rank while others are destitute and homeless. It’s nothing like the diabolical nonsense that sinister communism spouts about equality between rich and poor. The universe is fair. Those who do good are blessed for it, while those who do bad things will face payback—if not in this life, then in the next. For this is an immutable law of the universe! Heaven, Earth, the Divine, and the Creator alike are compassionate toward all lives. Heaven and Earth, just as was man, were made by the Creator, and it is never the case that He plays favorites with some lives and shortchanges others. The reason some people lead happy lives and others do not all comes down to rewards and retribution for past deeds.

When you see people winning or losing in life, it appears to come about in a normal way from things in this world. But it is ultimately the karmic consequences of those people’s past doings. Whether people have something or not, or are winning or losing in life, is going to play out in ways that accord with this world. So no matter whether you are rich or poor in life, you should be sure to do good, refrain from doing bad things, stay good and kind, be spiritual and devout, and be happy to help others. And by doing so, you will build up blessings and virtue, and reap their rewards in the next life. In the past, the older generation in China would often talk about things like not lamenting your lot in life when things are hard and about earning a better next life by gaining virtue through good deeds. And the point was that it’s useless praying to God for help if you didn’t do good things in your former life and earn blessings. The universe has its laws, and even higher beings must obey them. Even they will be punished if they do things they shouldn’t. So things are not as simple as people take them to be. Should people expect higher beings to give them whatever they pray for? The prerequisite is that one has to have built up the blessings and virtue for it over past lifetimes. And so the things that come to you are on account of the blessings and virtue you have! This is what the laws of the universe dictate. But speaking on a fundamental level, getting what you want is not the ultimate goal of accumulating blessings and virtue. The real purpose of building those up is to pave the way for you back to heaven. And that is what’s most crucial, not the brief round of happiness that they can bring you in this lifetime!

Teacher Li Hongzhi

Jan. 20, 2023

***

Editor’s Note
Falun Gong is practiced by more than 100 million people worldwide. Yet despite the scale of this cultural phenomenon, it has largely been underreported. The Epoch Times, as a media organization that cherishes religious freedom, is honored to be the first media to publish this article by Falun Gong’s founder. We welcome feedback; however, we expect comments to be civilized and respectful. We were forced to disable the comment section on this article because some debate fell short of this expectation. We also need to protect our content from attacks by the Chinese Communist Party. As always, we would still love to hear your thoughts; to contact us, please click here and fill out the contact form.


Crafty_Dog

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Mike Tyson and Bill Burr
« Reply #96 on: May 15, 2023, 03:31:26 PM »
The world retains its ability to surprise:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2242N5NJPUw

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Re: Queer woman vs. Church
« Reply #97 on: May 15, 2023, 04:21:23 PM »
https://washingtonstand.com/commentary/queeridentifying-woman-challenges-churchs-biblical-sexuality-statement-at-open-mic-night-after-media-criticism

That is dead on accurate. You must serve someone. Either you really believe and try to actually live by the rules 7 days a week or you are a CINO. It's Christianity, not Churchianity.

We are all flawed sinners, but embracing your sin and making it your identity is turning your back on God. That is a decision with eternal consequences.

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Re: Organized & Disorganized Religion and anti-religion
« Reply #98 on: May 16, 2023, 10:11:56 AM »
That is a fine article, I just posted it on my FB page.

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