Author Topic: American History  (Read 184264 times)

Crafty_Dog

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ccp

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work badges for Blacks early 1800s
« Reply #452 on: July 26, 2023, 09:49:14 AM »
with regard to the made up controversy about Florida education curriculum

"Florida's new school curriculum about slavery, which suggests African Americans benefited from slavery"

I was reminded of badges worn by slaves or freed men or escaped slaves
There was an auction some yrs back of these badges , the earliest I recall ~ 1803 up to the 1830s or 40s

This is what they were like :

https://relicrecord.com/blog/charleston-slave-badges/

This was not the auction which I could not find in archive to post here

but I do recall "porter", "carpenter", "servant" , "fisher", "farmer", and I think hunter or gamer .
There were others but these came to mind

As a history buff I thought about bidding , but then thought it was a bit creepy and horrible at the same time.

It is true that some slaves learned skills that they may have benefitted for themselves to some degree later on.

Of course they would usually be paid at a lower rate then whites and might have to pay a portion to sponsors so the benefit would not be a full benefit from what I gleaned
« Last Edit: July 26, 2023, 09:52:28 AM by ccp »

ccp

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Octavius Catto
« Reply #453 on: July 29, 2023, 07:49:53 AM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octavius_Catto


born free in South Carolina - mixed race

"became known as a top cricket and baseball player in 19th-century Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. A Republican, he was shot and killed in election-day violence in Philadelphia, where ethnic Irish of the Democratic Party, which was anti-Reconstruction and had opposed black suffrage, attacked black men to prevent their voting for Republican candidates."

worked with Frederick Douglass
recruited Black regiments that fought at the front.
educator

murdered trying to help Blacks vote Republican - murdered by Irish Democrat

helped organize the first Black baseball teams




ccp

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Did FBI take Civil War gold from site in PA?
« Reply #456 on: August 06, 2023, 08:25:14 AM »
https://www.wsj.com/articles/civil-war-gold-treasure-hunters-fbi-7533544e

rather mysterious.

some questions:


why would they not let the man watch rather than tell him to go sit in the car?

what does FBI claim the suggestion of a mass consistent with gold density was found really was if not gold?

if gold coins were really found the value of the gold itself is one thing but the value of the gold as collectable coins would be worth more and probably many times more

so if gold coins were found the Feds would be wiser to sell to collectors rather than store in a vault




Crafty_Dog

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Oracle of Lost Causes
« Reply #457 on: September 14, 2023, 09:24:36 AM »
‘Oracle of Lost Causes’ Review: The Making of a Myth
After the Civil War, a prolific Missouri author glorified the Southern cause and made heroes of Confederate generals and guerrilla fighters.
By Gerard Helferich
Sept. 10, 2023 3:02 pm ET



When any war ends, a new battle begins, the so-called memory war waged by political partisans over how the conflict will be remembered. After the Civil War, Confederate apologists claimed that the struggle had been over states’ rights and Northern aggression, not slavery; that slaveholding was just and benevolent; and that the South was morally and socially superior to the North. Meant to ease the sting of defeat and defend Southern honor, this mythology, known as the Lost Cause, would serve as a pretext for the racial terror perpetrated over the next century and more.

In the postbellum decades, a Missouri-based author and newspaperman named John Newman Edwards emerged as an influential advocate of the Lost Cause, rewriting history and promoting a reactionary political agenda. Along the way, he launched the legends of (among others) former rebel leader Gen. Joseph Shelby; the notorious Confederate guerrilla raider William Quantrill; and the bushwhackers-turned-bandits Frank and Jesse James. In “Oracle of Lost Causes,” Matthew Christopher Hulbert argues that it is time for Edwards to step out of his role as star-maker and “command top billing.”



Oracle of Lost Causes: John Newman Edwards and His Never-Ending Civil War


John Newman Edwards was born in 1838, to a Virginia family of ample pedigree but limited means. As a boy, he devoured romantic tales of Greek heroes, Roman emperors and medieval knights, developing a lifelong nostalgia for an idealized past. He also concluded, Mr. Hulbert writes, that “the royals, nobles, and aristocrats of the Old World and the American South’s elite planters and intellectuals shared timeworn traits that affirmed their right to rule.”

When he was 17, Edwards left Virginia to seek his fortune in the political cauldron of western Missouri, arriving as violence erupted between pro-slavery partisans there and Free-Staters in neighboring Kansas. In the town of Lexington, Edwards found work on a pro-slavery newspaper. He also befriended the dashing Joseph Shelby, the transplanted scion of one of Kentucky’s first families and a slaveholder who had already led mounted raids across the Kansas border. To the admiring Edwards, eight years his junior, Shelby was “the epitome . . . of cavalier sophistication,” Mr. Hulbert writes, “the closest thing John had ever seen to one of his Round Table idols in the flesh.” The friendship would endure, to both men’s advantage, for the rest of Edwards’s life.

When Shelby raised a Confederate cavalry company at the beginning of the Civil War, Edwards eagerly enlisted. Promoted to adjutant, he was charged with writing his commander’s official reports, always with an eye to future historians as well as his Confederate superiors. By war’s end, Edwards had been promoted to major. In 1867 he published his first book, “Shelby and His Men.” It was meant, he wrote in the preface, as an “offering” laid “upon the altar of Southern glory and renown.”

Five years later, Edwards released his second book, “Shelby’s Expedition to Mexico.” In the summer of 1865, the ex-general and a few hundred of his men, including Edwards, had marched into Mexico and offered their services to Emperor Maximilian, the Habsburg prince whom the French had installed after deposing reformist president Benito Juárez. To Juárez and his followers, Maximilian was a usurping despot, but to Edwards the emperor represented, as Mr. Hulbert puts it, all that “was good about the Old World: royal bloodlines, imperial power, sophistication, chivalry, rigid hierarchy, and order.”

Politely declining their offer of arms, Maximilian settled the former rebels on some farmland near Córdoba, where the “Confederados” began to build a planter society like the one they had lost north of the border. Then, in 1867, after Napoleon III had withdrawn his support of Maximilian, Juárez returned to power, and the Mexican emperor faced a firing squad. Arriving back in Missouri, Edwards worked on several newspapers in the coming years, promoting the Lost Cause and railing against the scourge of Reconstruction.

He also made folk heroes of Frank and Jesse James. During the Civil War, the James brothers had ridden with William Quantrill, whose guerrilla tactics, Mr. Hulbert reminds us, relied heavily on “assassination, torture, arson, . . . rape, and even massacre.” After the war, the Jameses took to robbing banks. But in Edwards’s accounts, the brothers were latter-day Robin Hoods, fighting for justice and forced into a life of crime by corrupt Republican politicians. Befriending the bandits, he published their letters and editorialized on their behalf, spreading their fame and appealing for public sympathy. After Jesse’s death in 1882, Edwards negotiated Frank’s surrender and helped to direct his (ultimately successful) legal defense.

In “Noted Guerillas” (1877), Edwards glorified Quantrill, “Bloody Bill” Anderson and other bushwhackers. But eventually even he had to admit that the Southern cause was lost irrevocably. Disillusioned, depressed, embittered, Edwards turned increasingly to drink and died of alcoholism in Jefferson City, Mo., on May 4, 1889, at the age of 51.

To Mr. Hulbert, an assistant professor of history at Hampden-Sydney College, Edwards’s life is nothing less than “a grand collage of nineteenth-century America.” The author has researched his story deeply, and he tells it well, including the myriad ways in which Edwards twisted the truth in his reactionary harangues. Even so, one can’t help wishing that, in recounting the life of a fervent, lifelong apologist for the Confederacy, Mr. Hulbert had adopted a more critical tone. (Not to imply that he sympathizes with Edwards’s views.) He might have stepped back more often to remind us of the tremendous harm that such mythmakers inflicted; for Edwards’s memory war rages still, as in the controversies surrounding monuments to slaveholders and Confederate leaders. More than 150 years after Appomattox, we can never forget what is at stake.



Mr. Helferich’s most recent book is the historical novel “Hot Time,” published under the pen name W.H. Flint.

Crafty_Dog

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Robert E. Lee on the Lost Cause
« Reply #458 on: September 14, 2023, 03:11:36 PM »
second

“The consolidation of the states into one vast empire, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of ruin which has overwhelmed all that preceded it.”
― Robert E. Lee


ccp

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Newt American Despotism: The Great Upheaval Over Race Begins
« Reply #460 on: September 30, 2023, 10:20:29 AM »
1st of two part history lesson on Race in America by Newt:

https://spectator.org/american-despotism-the-great-upheaval-over-race-begins/

very good read
horrible in retrospect

Crafty_Dog

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Re: American History
« Reply #461 on: September 30, 2023, 11:05:12 AM »
Four essays there-- Newt is a serious historian and I look forward to reading all four of them.


ccp

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The lynching of Leo Frank 1915
« Reply #463 on: October 03, 2023, 09:26:10 AM »
And the resurgence of the KKK and beginnings of the Anti-defamation League

https://www.bing.com/images/search?form=IARRTH&q=leo+frank&first=1

which resulted:

https://www.history.com/topics/early-20th-century-us/leo-frank-lynching

He was convicted of murder of one of his employees, 14 yo employee Mary Phagan in 1912.   The widespread press coverage nationally  helped lead to scrutiny of child labor laws as well.

When the Geoargia governor reviewed all the details he could not convince himself 'beyond a reasonable' doubt that Frank and not another employee had done the dastardly deed.

So, he commuted his sentence from execution to life imprisonment.  White Southerners outraged at what they perceived was injustice kidnapped Frank from his jail cell and strung him up on a tree limb.  Included in the gang that murdered him was a judge a mayor and many prominent townspeople.

Much of the evidence was based on testimony
since this of course was before good forensic technigues, video evidence  etc.

After reading the story in more detail myself I am not sure if Frank was innocent or set up by the real culprit Jim Conley:

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=jim+conley+frank+image&qpvt=jim+conley+frank+image&form=IGRE&first=1

Hard to know who told the truth .  Frank was no angel it sounds like, but it sounds likely Conley set him up to be the fall guy.




DougMacG

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American History, Reagan v. Carter
« Reply #464 on: October 23, 2023, 08:03:20 PM »
I wanted to post this in the 2024 thread for it's parallels and relevance.

https://youtu.be/BTIfGFJqLko?si=vRh9MMY03xkCsbOG

Workout 'podcast'.

Nobody knew he would win 489 electoral votes less than a week later.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_United_States_presidential_election
« Last Edit: October 23, 2023, 10:27:36 PM by DougMacG »

ccp

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Will Smith disparages Lincoln?
« Reply #465 on: November 01, 2023, 11:14:48 AM »
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/5-ugly-facts-about-abraham-lincoln/ar-AA1dGF5v?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=00ae5e9ef5284f958d4c2b3acc23d384&ei=14

These "facts" are not new.

Here we go again; teach Lincoln was a bigoted white man!

heavy on sarcasm.

 :roll:

Margeau Sippell dumb ass chick.
Lincoln lost his life due to emancipation
Blacks voted R for a 100 yrs .


Fred Douglass came to appreciate and admire him

750,000 died in the Civil War
due to slavery (which was reason South broke off with North in case you didn't know)


DougMacG

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Re: Will Smith disparages Lincoln?
« Reply #466 on: November 01, 2023, 02:52:41 PM »
Right.  What a bunch of BS.

Not only kept slavery from spreading across the frontier, he ended the ugly, centuries old practice of on a good part of the planet.  Can't say single-handedly, but it wouldn't have happened without him.

And what were his opponents, ironically the Democrats, the Left, doing at the time?  Owning slaves and fighting to keep them.

The "myth" is that the parties ever flipped. The KKK was the Democrats and the racists left among us still are the Democrats.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2023, 02:55:03 PM by DougMacG »

ccp

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Re: American History
« Reply #467 on: November 01, 2023, 08:53:33 PM »
I have no plans to see Will Smith's "documentary"

wonder if he included anything about the Texas Democrat LBJ:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-voting-democratic/

Though Dem historians would like to downplay this about a Democrat (LBJ) I don't recall anyone quoting Lincoln saying anything like this.


ccp

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The unknown soldier
« Reply #468 on: November 03, 2023, 09:24:15 AM »
I am thinking that DNA technology the way it is today it might be possible to identify these individuals who gave the last full measure for America:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/11-facts-about-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier/ar-AA1jipnd?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=d64683b5bafe40ab90eca954fb31708f&ei=11

ccp

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Crafty_Dog

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Re: American History
« Reply #470 on: November 16, 2023, 07:21:13 PM »
Far out!

ccp

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survivors of the Alamo
« Reply #471 on: November 20, 2023, 09:50:50 PM »
son of Jose Gregorio Esparza who fought for Texas and had a brother who fought for Santa Ana though not at the Alamo and later found Jose shot and stabbed and buried his body .
His wife and 6 children stayed with him rather then run when they had a chance.
They woke early March 6 and realized the Mexicans breached the walls and were in the fort.  Jose left the buildoing they

His son Enrique who was 8 years old at the time provides the story he remembers burned into his memory in 1902 at age 74:

http://www.sonsofdewittcolony.org/adp/archives/newsarch/esparza.html

Susanna Dickenson's would give oral accounts as she could not read or write:

https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Susanna%20Dickinson.pdf

of particular note:  She confirms William Travis DID indeed draw a line in the sand and no one crossed it.

and finally

Joe Travis - Travis' slave was spared - by Santa Anna. he had an exceptionally sad life and continued to be a slave before and after the Alamo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Travis

Crafty_Dog

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PT 109
« Reply #472 on: December 09, 2023, 01:46:07 PM »

With today being the Army-Navy game, I found myself remembering my father introducing me to President Kennedy at the half-time of the Army-Navy game.
While chatting briefly with an Army friend today, it came out that he did not know this story about Kennedy when he was in the Navy in WW2.

https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/about-jfk/jfk-in-history/john-f-kennedy-and-pt-109

ccp

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First African American to win a world boxing title - 7 yrs before Jack Johnson
« Reply #473 on: December 16, 2023, 08:16:55 AM »
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=joe+gans+youtube&mid=FFC4E7B7135E54884861FFC4E7B7135E54884861&FORM=VIRE

I love these antique boxing films

Interesting how they describe him holding opponents arms at times when in a clinch to prevent them from fighting back after and attack.

I recall seeing Jack Johnson do the same thing.
Mohammud Ali did this all the time and it would annoy the hell out of me.
Not clear to me why this was not cheating really.


ccp

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Re: American History
« Reply #475 on: December 23, 2023, 07:29:13 AM »
The history of the Gettysburg Address:

48 minutes and long winded but amazing insights into the 272 words
I never knew that if effect Lincoln took his whole life of learning to be able to make such a relatively short speech packed with so so much in plain English that changed political speech in the US.
Additionally I did not realize how much was derived from Biblical scriptures:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?530940-1/160th-anniversary-lincolns-1863-gettysburg-address


ccp

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slave hire badges from Charleston
« Reply #476 on: December 29, 2023, 10:18:11 AM »
SC slave badges with trades on them
1800 to 1864

Nikki's state.  Look at pages 5 to 45 from this auction catalogue 1/2006:

https://media.stacksbowers.com/VirtualCatalogs/CatalogLibrary/americanacolonia2006stac.pdf

I think collecting these is a bit creepy.  Like collecting Stars of David's that Jews had to wear in Hitler's Germany.

They best belong in a National museum in my view.

One could thus say slaves did "benefit" from a trade they learned while a slave
since they could provide their services for a fee when freed but a lower rate than white's with the same skills.

Yet DeSantis made an error pointing this out as such.

Since of course this is revolting any way you look at it.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2023, 10:20:34 AM by ccp »

Crafty_Dog

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Watergate vs. Russiagate
« Reply #477 on: January 17, 2024, 04:46:03 AM »
Pasting CCP post here as well:

=========================

Nixon to Trump
the corrupt media and DC :

https://spectator.org/trump-should-learn-from-watergate/

personally, I always felt that Nixon was railroaded by a bunch of partisan dirtballs
and never quite accepted their 'story'.
I was annoyed by their hypocrisy and virtue signaling then and more so now.

Especially when everyone but Nixon stood to benefit.


DougMacG

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« Last Edit: February 19, 2024, 07:57:35 PM by DougMacG »


ccp

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LBJ remembered
« Reply #481 on: February 25, 2024, 09:28:48 AM »
Legacy from Wikipedia:

Scholars have viewed Johnson through the lens of both his legislative achievements and his lack of success in the Vietnam War. His overall rating among historians has remained relatively steady, and his average ranking is higher than any of the eight presidents who followed him, although similar to Reagan and Clinton.[293] In public polling of presidential favorability of Johnson and the presidents who succeeded him Johnson tends to appear more towards the bottom of lists, typically excepting George W. Bush and Richard Nixon, and sometimes Gerald Ford.

Historian Kent Germany explains:

The man who was elected to the White House by one of the widest margins in U.S. history and pushed through as much legislation as any other American politician now seems to be remembered best by the public for succeeding an assassinated hero, steering the country into a quagmire in Vietnam, cheating on his saintly wife, exposing his stitched-up belly, using profanity, picking up dogs by their ears, swimming naked with advisers in the White House pool, and emptying his bowels while conducting official business. Of all those issues, Johnson's reputation suffers the most from his management of the Vietnam War, something that has overshadowed his civil rights and domestic policy accomplishments and caused Johnson himself to regret his handling of "the woman I really loved—the Great Society."[294]

------------------------

I would also like to know what an objective historian, such as Newt Gingrich would make of the value of his legislative "accomplishments" in a retrospective historical analysis.

Did his legislation, for example do what it was supposed to or make some things worse as some historians now believe?

For example, the destruction of the Black family.





DougMacG

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Re: LBJ remembered
« Reply #482 on: February 25, 2024, 08:53:20 PM »
"Did his legislation, for example do what it was supposed to or make some things worse as some historians now believe?

For example, the destruction of the Black family."

-----------------------------------------------------

He was a bad man.  That historian paragraph was just a sampling.  He cheted on way more than his wife.  Whatever "good accomplishments there were", they were more than negated by the bad.

Is it fair to blame him - that we continued his policies for 60 years and counting, destroying our families, our cities and our nation?  Yes.  He gets more than partial credit for the whole mess.

An ad running from a black conservative group in Minneapolis says 4 out of 5 black kids in Minneapolis live right now without a father in the home.  (Do  you think other once great American cities are any better?)  There are Thomas Sowell writings that show the black family was more intact than white families before that time, and were making good economic progress before government turned the whole thing upside down.

As far as civil rights legislation in the 60s goes, (IIRC) a majority of Republicans in Congress voted for it.  A majority of Democrats voted against it.  So much for Johnson being the leader.  'Whipping votes' is what he did but not on that one.  And the parties didn't 'flip'.  That is a left myth.  One Senator switched sides and it was for other reasons.

How many trillions sent down that rat hole building dependency on government and thwarting self sufficiency?
https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/report/the-war-poverty-after-50-years

Our entire deficit and debt can be attributed to horribly misguided policies of which LBJ started it and Democrats year after year continued and expanded it and far too many Republicans went along with it. 

Even Reagan who never had a House of Representatives controlled by his own party went along with the domestic spending freight train.

We spend more paying people and paying people's personal expenses than we do governing.  And as pointed out once or twice, we spend 40% more than we take in. No one in power or leadership seems to care.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: American History
« Reply #483 on: February 26, 2024, 02:45:15 AM »
Doug:

Glad to see you make the point about the real meaning and consequences of LBJ.

Body-by-Guinness

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Re: LBJ remembered
« Reply #484 on: February 26, 2024, 11:02:51 AM »
"Did his legislation, for example do what it was supposed to or make some things worse as some historians now believe?

For example, the destruction of the Black family."

-----------------------------------------------------

He was a bad man.  That historian paragraph was just a sampling.  He cheted on way more than his wife.  Whatever "good accomplishments there were", they were more than negated by the bad.

Is it fair to blame him - that we continued his policies for 60 years and counting, destroying our families, our cities and our nation?  Yes.  He gets more than partial credit for the whole mess.

An ad running from a black conservative group in Minneapolis says 4 out of 5 black kids in Minneapolis live right now without a father in the home.  (Do  you think other once great American cities are any better?)  There are Thomas Sowell writings that show the black family was more intact than white families before that time, and were making good economic progress before government turned the whole thing upside down.

As far as civil rights legislation in the 60s goes, (IIRC) a majority of Republicans in Congress voted for it.  A majority of Democrats voted against it.  So much for Johnson being the leader.  'Whipping votes' is what he did but not on that one.  And the parties didn't 'flip'.  That is a left myth.  One Senator switched sides and it was for other reasons.

How many trillions sent down that rat hole building dependency on government and thwarting self sufficiency?
https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/report/the-war-poverty-after-50-years

Our entire deficit and debt can be attributed to horribly misguided policies of which LBJ started it and Democrats year after year continued and expanded it and far too many Republicans went along with it. 

Even Reagan who never had a House of Representatives controlled by his own party went along with the domestic spending freight train.

We spend more paying people and paying people's personal expenses than we do governing.  And as pointed out once or twice, we spend 40% more than we take in. No one in power or leadership seems to care.

I was a TA for Roger Wilkins, a frequent foil in his various classes and, so he stated, the only student that had earned an "A" in every class he offered, and indeed spent a lot of time hanging out in his office until he retired, alas, due to dementia back in 2013 or so. Roger worked as an Assistant Attorney General for LBJ, often was dispatched to bigoted hellholes to confront misbehaving state officials (something that took serious stones, though he never said so) and noted he turned more than one corner in the White House to hear LBJ dropping N-bombs, only to sheeplishly apologize later when most had left the room. He clearly had regard for LBJ and the Civil Rights Act Johnson helped champion, though was also more than aware of the pathologies the black community suffered due to various political efforts.

Indeed, one of the reason I adored him was his willingness to directly confront unintended consquences, unmitigated failures, and other results of the sundry do-gooding efforts that were subverted by the pemanent political class. Kinda glad he's not around today to see what "Progressives" have done to what he considered his political home and party.

ccp

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Periods of time we had NO VP
« Reply #485 on: March 29, 2024, 06:19:59 AM »