Author Topic: Insurrection (Including J6) and the Second American Civil War  (Read 200305 times)


Crafty_Dog

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AMcC
« Reply #1601 on: July 16, 2022, 01:01:48 PM »
GM's annoyance notwithstanding  :-D  as usual we come away from AMcC knowing more about the legal issues than we did before:

January 6 Committee’s Bid to Prove Trump Criminally Liable for Violence Falls Short

By ANDREW C. MCCARTHY
July 16, 2022 6:30 AM

If anything, the panel has bolstered Trump’s defense rather than undermining it.
The January 6 committee seemed to hit the point of diminishing returns this week. The Democrat-controlled panel is straining to establish that its target, former president Donald Trump, is not just morally and politically but criminally culpable for the deadly Capitol riot, but it can’t make the case. Its evidence of criminal intent is too weak, and its tactic of conflating Trump’s state of mind with the unhinged words of extremists who reacted to his rhetoric is sleight-of-hand.

Plus, Trump has an intent defense: He was trying to ratchet up political pressure on Congress, not provoke a forcible uprising. And the committee is not only ignoring that defense but bolstering it (however inadvertently).

To be clear, I am speaking here narrowly about crimes involving the intent to use force, a necessary element of such offenses as seditious conspiracy, with which the Justice Department has charged several rioters. Trump’s liability for other potential crimes arising out of the events that culminated in the Capitol riot remains an open question. The committee is correct that Trump orchestrated a raucous rally on the National Mall on January 6, 2021. But the evidence that he intended the rally to turn lethally violent, as the committee implies, is slim.

To draw the committee’s conclusion, one must pretend, as the panel mulishly does, that Trump never said, during his speech at the rally that preceded the riot, “I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.” (Memo to the Committee: In real criminal proceedings, which, unlike scripted political presentations, have cross-examination and the right to present a defense, your case gets laughed out of court when you get caught burying the exculpatory evidence. Competent prosecutors confront the exculpatory evidence head-on. Rather than signaling fear of it, they try to persuade the fact-finder that it’s trumped by other, more compelling evidence. Being persuasive involves playing it straight to maintain your credibility.)

The committee’s theory also indulges a presumption of guilt, the opposite of what Trump would be entitled to if charged with a crime. The committee would have you believe that when Trump used common political rhetoric, such as telling people they must “fight like hell” for their country, he meant it literally — whereas, when former community-organizer and “direct action” devotee Barack Obama told his fellow progressives, “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” or Joe Biden told black people that Republicans “want to put y’all back in chains,” they were just employing well-intentioned metaphors.


The committee’s contention is shallow. Searching through Trump’s speech, I found 20 invocations of the word fight. In all of them, it makes sense that Trump was using the word metaphorically to convey the concept of political opposition; and in many of them it would be irrational to conclude that he meant the use of physical force (e.g., his lawyers are fighting, his House Republican allies are fighting, we have to primary RINOs who don’t fight, he fights with the media, we need to fight big donors and big tech). The fact that people got physical after Trump urged them to “fight” does not prove that he intended for them to get physical.

This brings us back to the “dog that hasn’t barked” point I made prior to Tuesday’s committee session. The Justice Department conducts criminal investigations for a living, and has more expertise and legal tools at its disposal than the January 6 committee has. A battalion of DOJ prosecutors had been intensively probing the Capitol riot for months before the committee was even formed. The DOJ has thus far charged over 800 people with crimes related to the riot. Yet, despite all the proof it has amassed (far more than the committee has), the DOJ has not even portrayed Trump as an unindicted coconspirator. To the contrary, prosecutors have fought to preclude riot defendants from using Trump’s rhetoric — both the rhetoric from his speech specifically and the rhetoric he used throughout the fraudulent “stop the steal” campaign more broadly — as a defense. It is not enough to say that the Biden Justice Department has not charged a violent-crime case against Trump. If, as the committee seems to be urging, the DOJ were to reverse course and indict Trump for the riot itself, defendants who’ve already been prosecuted for crimes arising from it would cry foul, and prosecutors would have a lot of explaining to do. So I would not hold my breath waiting for that to happen.


Again, that is not to say that Trump is in the clear. There are potential penal offenses on the DOJ’s radar that don’t hinge on Trump’s being criminally culpable for the riot. I think that there are other problems with those offenses, and that the DOJ would be making a profound mistake if it charged a former president with an iffy, non-violent crime. But that’s a topic for another day.

When law-enforcement officials realize that they can’t make a case because they can’t prove criminal intent beyond a reasonable doubt, the matter is quietly dropped, and we never learn what the investigation turned up. By contrast, the January 6 committee is a political body with an unabashed anti-Trump agenda. So it is doing what pols do when they’ve insisted their adversaries are guilty of serious crimes: substituting smoke and mirrors for the hole in its case and hoping nobody notices.

On that score, Tuesday’s proceeding can be summed up in one snapshot. Committee member Jamie Raskin of Maryland, who partnered with fellow Democrat Stephanie Murphy of Florida in leading the presentation, called attention to Trump’s infamous tweet in the wee hours of the morning on December 19, 2020: “Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!” Raskin then pivoted to an Internet message board frequented by right-wing extremists, where immediately after the president’s tweet, one fanatic had written, “Trump just told us all to come armed.”

There it is . . . the call to violent insurrection!

Except, Trump hadn’t said anything about “coming armed.” In fact, in a real hearing, a judge or an adversary would slam Raskin over a stunt like this. The committee doesn’t have a shred of evidence that the former president was asking anyone to come to Washington armed or to commit violence upon arriving. So instead, the panel projects images of what zealots said in reaction to Trump’s rhetoric on its big movie screen, flashes some blood-curdling video of zealots assaulting police and breaking into the Capitol days later, and invites us to conclude that Trump intended a violent attack, Q.E.D. But that’s not how the criminal law works.

The committee has not only failed to prove Trump had criminal intent to cause violence. It has not even confronted, much less disproved, his intent defense.

What appears to have happened here is that Trump summoned what he hoped would be a boisterous throng to Washington in order to influence Pence and congressional Republicans to execute his strategy for keeping power during the January 6 joint session of Congress. Based on John Eastman’s loopy legal theory, congressional Republicans would object to the counting of electoral votes certified by key states won by Biden (i.e., states that had Republican-controlled legislatures, which Trump hoped to then pressure into substituting slates of Trump electors for the already-certified slates of Biden electors, using his unsubstantiated claims of massive election fraud as a pretext). Pence would then have to sustain these objections and purport to either rule the votes invalid or remand the question back to the state governments for recertification. This plan, which fantasized that virtually all Republicans would toe the line, and that Democrats would meekly roll over and play dead, had zero prospect of success. It was also lawless. But that it was lawless does not mean it was a call to violence.

More from
ANDREW C. MCCARTHY
 

The committee is not just failing to refute this intent defense; the evidence presented at Tuesday’s hearing actually supported it.

Raskin and Murphy played portions of Trump’s speech in which he explicitly said that the point of marching to the Capitol was “to try and give our Republicans — the weak ones, because the strong ones don’t need any of our help — we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.” This, mind you, was after Trump had said the objective was to give Vice President Pence the spine to do “the right thing” by executing the strategy Eastman had devised.

Note that, in prior sessions (including the one at which former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson testified), the committee implied that, because Trump knew some people in the crowd were armed, he must have intended a violent uprising. But that doesn’t necessarily follow. Remember, we’re talking now about criminal intent, not recklessness. On the other hand, encouraging a “wild” crowd — including some Trump supporters who might be armed — to “make your voices heard” at the Capitol is completely consistent with trying to ratchet up pressure on political officials.

Now, I want to be clear: If the subject at hand were impeachment, rather than criminal prosecution, that would be a different matter. I have long maintained that, without admitting as much, the January 6 committee is conducting the impeachment investigation that House Democrats failed to conduct 18 months ago. What the committee illustrated Tuesday, and what it has shown in its previous sessions (six other ones in recent weeks, and one last year featuring police who were battered by the rioters), is that there were abundant bases for impeaching Trump, removing him from office, and disqualifying him from future office. And since removal was not on the table because the riot occurred just two weeks before Trump’s term ended, there was no reason to rush the impeachment investigation.

That is why many of us at National Review (myself included) urged that the House conduct a thorough investigation and draft articles of impeachment that matched Trump’s indefensible derelictions of duty during the two-month period beginning on Election Day and lasting through the riot. House Democrats didn’t do that, opting instead for an “Incitement to Insurrection” article, which was so poorly conceived and shoddily investigated that it gave Senate Republicans easy resort to the pretext that it was unconstitutional to subject a non-incumbent to an impeachment trial. (Putting aside that this GOP premise was legally dubious, it would have been much more difficult politically for Senate Republicans to ignore a well-constructed case of shocking presidential misconduct.)

It would not be merely appropriate but imperative to impeach, remove, and disqualify a president who recklessly instigated a rally of potentially tens of thousands of people against Congress, particularly when he knew, or should have known, that the rally could turn violent and overwhelm security forces. It wouldn’t matter whether such a president didn’t actually call for or intend violence to ensue. It would especially be Congress’s duty to impeach, remove, and disqualify if the rally-run-amok was the culmination of a course of behavior in which the president, who is sworn to uphold the Constitution, (a) willfully undermined the Constitution’s commitment of elections to state control; (b) willfully undermined the constitutionally mandated process by which Congress accepts and tallies state-certified electoral votes, and thus determines which candidate has won the presidency; and (c) once a riot at the Capitol had broken out, willfully failed to use his manifest influence to have the rioters stand down, protecting the vice president, members of Congress, security personnel, and the public.

Impeachment, of course, pertains to abuses of power that demonstrate unfitness for the privilege of public office; it doesn’t require proof of a penal crime. By contrast, the question the committee pressed this week is whether there are grounds for a criminal prosecution of former President Trump specifically for the riot. Unlike impeachment, a penal crime entails being subject to imprisonment — i.e., the deprivation not of a privilege, but of the fundamental right to liberty. Criminal prosecution is thus a legal process, not a political one. The government must overcome the accused’s right to be presumed innocent by proving every element of the crime, including intent, beyond a reasonable doubt.

In its attempts to prove Trump’s criminal — as opposed to political and moral — culpability for the Capitol riot, the January 6 committee has thus far come up short.

G M

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Re: AMcC
« Reply #1602 on: July 17, 2022, 07:38:33 AM »
We don't anything more about what AMcC knows about the FBI/DOJ operation on J6. he seems to be avoiding that topic for some reason.



GM's annoyance notwithstanding  :-D  as usual we come away from AMcC knowing more about the legal issues than we did before:

January 6 Committee’s Bid to Prove Trump Criminally Liable for Violence Falls Short

By ANDREW C. MCCARTHY
July 16, 2022 6:30 AM

If anything, the panel has bolstered Trump’s defense rather than undermining it.
The January 6 committee seemed to hit the point of diminishing returns this week. The Democrat-controlled panel is straining to establish that its target, former president Donald Trump, is not just morally and politically but criminally culpable for the deadly Capitol riot, but it can’t make the case. Its evidence of criminal intent is too weak, and its tactic of conflating Trump’s state of mind with the unhinged words of extremists who reacted to his rhetoric is sleight-of-hand.

Plus, Trump has an intent defense: He was trying to ratchet up political pressure on Congress, not provoke a forcible uprising. And the committee is not only ignoring that defense but bolstering it (however inadvertently).

To be clear, I am speaking here narrowly about crimes involving the intent to use force, a necessary element of such offenses as seditious conspiracy, with which the Justice Department has charged several rioters. Trump’s liability for other potential crimes arising out of the events that culminated in the Capitol riot remains an open question. The committee is correct that Trump orchestrated a raucous rally on the National Mall on January 6, 2021. But the evidence that he intended the rally to turn lethally violent, as the committee implies, is slim.

To draw the committee’s conclusion, one must pretend, as the panel mulishly does, that Trump never said, during his speech at the rally that preceded the riot, “I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.” (Memo to the Committee: In real criminal proceedings, which, unlike scripted political presentations, have cross-examination and the right to present a defense, your case gets laughed out of court when you get caught burying the exculpatory evidence. Competent prosecutors confront the exculpatory evidence head-on. Rather than signaling fear of it, they try to persuade the fact-finder that it’s trumped by other, more compelling evidence. Being persuasive involves playing it straight to maintain your credibility.)

The committee’s theory also indulges a presumption of guilt, the opposite of what Trump would be entitled to if charged with a crime. The committee would have you believe that when Trump used common political rhetoric, such as telling people they must “fight like hell” for their country, he meant it literally — whereas, when former community-organizer and “direct action” devotee Barack Obama told his fellow progressives, “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” or Joe Biden told black people that Republicans “want to put y’all back in chains,” they were just employing well-intentioned metaphors.


The committee’s contention is shallow. Searching through Trump’s speech, I found 20 invocations of the word fight. In all of them, it makes sense that Trump was using the word metaphorically to convey the concept of political opposition; and in many of them it would be irrational to conclude that he meant the use of physical force (e.g., his lawyers are fighting, his House Republican allies are fighting, we have to primary RINOs who don’t fight, he fights with the media, we need to fight big donors and big tech). The fact that people got physical after Trump urged them to “fight” does not prove that he intended for them to get physical.

This brings us back to the “dog that hasn’t barked” point I made prior to Tuesday’s committee session. The Justice Department conducts criminal investigations for a living, and has more expertise and legal tools at its disposal than the January 6 committee has. A battalion of DOJ prosecutors had been intensively probing the Capitol riot for months before the committee was even formed. The DOJ has thus far charged over 800 people with crimes related to the riot. Yet, despite all the proof it has amassed (far more than the committee has), the DOJ has not even portrayed Trump as an unindicted coconspirator. To the contrary, prosecutors have fought to preclude riot defendants from using Trump’s rhetoric — both the rhetoric from his speech specifically and the rhetoric he used throughout the fraudulent “stop the steal” campaign more broadly — as a defense. It is not enough to say that the Biden Justice Department has not charged a violent-crime case against Trump. If, as the committee seems to be urging, the DOJ were to reverse course and indict Trump for the riot itself, defendants who’ve already been prosecuted for crimes arising from it would cry foul, and prosecutors would have a lot of explaining to do. So I would not hold my breath waiting for that to happen.


Again, that is not to say that Trump is in the clear. There are potential penal offenses on the DOJ’s radar that don’t hinge on Trump’s being criminally culpable for the riot. I think that there are other problems with those offenses, and that the DOJ would be making a profound mistake if it charged a former president with an iffy, non-violent crime. But that’s a topic for another day.

When law-enforcement officials realize that they can’t make a case because they can’t prove criminal intent beyond a reasonable doubt, the matter is quietly dropped, and we never learn what the investigation turned up. By contrast, the January 6 committee is a political body with an unabashed anti-Trump agenda. So it is doing what pols do when they’ve insisted their adversaries are guilty of serious crimes: substituting smoke and mirrors for the hole in its case and hoping nobody notices.

On that score, Tuesday’s proceeding can be summed up in one snapshot. Committee member Jamie Raskin of Maryland, who partnered with fellow Democrat Stephanie Murphy of Florida in leading the presentation, called attention to Trump’s infamous tweet in the wee hours of the morning on December 19, 2020: “Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!” Raskin then pivoted to an Internet message board frequented by right-wing extremists, where immediately after the president’s tweet, one fanatic had written, “Trump just told us all to come armed.”

There it is . . . the call to violent insurrection!

Except, Trump hadn’t said anything about “coming armed.” In fact, in a real hearing, a judge or an adversary would slam Raskin over a stunt like this. The committee doesn’t have a shred of evidence that the former president was asking anyone to come to Washington armed or to commit violence upon arriving. So instead, the panel projects images of what zealots said in reaction to Trump’s rhetoric on its big movie screen, flashes some blood-curdling video of zealots assaulting police and breaking into the Capitol days later, and invites us to conclude that Trump intended a violent attack, Q.E.D. But that’s not how the criminal law works.

The committee has not only failed to prove Trump had criminal intent to cause violence. It has not even confronted, much less disproved, his intent defense.

What appears to have happened here is that Trump summoned what he hoped would be a boisterous throng to Washington in order to influence Pence and congressional Republicans to execute his strategy for keeping power during the January 6 joint session of Congress. Based on John Eastman’s loopy legal theory, congressional Republicans would object to the counting of electoral votes certified by key states won by Biden (i.e., states that had Republican-controlled legislatures, which Trump hoped to then pressure into substituting slates of Trump electors for the already-certified slates of Biden electors, using his unsubstantiated claims of massive election fraud as a pretext). Pence would then have to sustain these objections and purport to either rule the votes invalid or remand the question back to the state governments for recertification. This plan, which fantasized that virtually all Republicans would toe the line, and that Democrats would meekly roll over and play dead, had zero prospect of success. It was also lawless. But that it was lawless does not mean it was a call to violence.

More from
ANDREW C. MCCARTHY
 

The committee is not just failing to refute this intent defense; the evidence presented at Tuesday’s hearing actually supported it.

Raskin and Murphy played portions of Trump’s speech in which he explicitly said that the point of marching to the Capitol was “to try and give our Republicans — the weak ones, because the strong ones don’t need any of our help — we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.” This, mind you, was after Trump had said the objective was to give Vice President Pence the spine to do “the right thing” by executing the strategy Eastman had devised.

Note that, in prior sessions (including the one at which former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson testified), the committee implied that, because Trump knew some people in the crowd were armed, he must have intended a violent uprising. But that doesn’t necessarily follow. Remember, we’re talking now about criminal intent, not recklessness. On the other hand, encouraging a “wild” crowd — including some Trump supporters who might be armed — to “make your voices heard” at the Capitol is completely consistent with trying to ratchet up pressure on political officials.

Now, I want to be clear: If the subject at hand were impeachment, rather than criminal prosecution, that would be a different matter. I have long maintained that, without admitting as much, the January 6 committee is conducting the impeachment investigation that House Democrats failed to conduct 18 months ago. What the committee illustrated Tuesday, and what it has shown in its previous sessions (six other ones in recent weeks, and one last year featuring police who were battered by the rioters), is that there were abundant bases for impeaching Trump, removing him from office, and disqualifying him from future office. And since removal was not on the table because the riot occurred just two weeks before Trump’s term ended, there was no reason to rush the impeachment investigation.

That is why many of us at National Review (myself included) urged that the House conduct a thorough investigation and draft articles of impeachment that matched Trump’s indefensible derelictions of duty during the two-month period beginning on Election Day and lasting through the riot. House Democrats didn’t do that, opting instead for an “Incitement to Insurrection” article, which was so poorly conceived and shoddily investigated that it gave Senate Republicans easy resort to the pretext that it was unconstitutional to subject a non-incumbent to an impeachment trial. (Putting aside that this GOP premise was legally dubious, it would have been much more difficult politically for Senate Republicans to ignore a well-constructed case of shocking presidential misconduct.)

It would not be merely appropriate but imperative to impeach, remove, and disqualify a president who recklessly instigated a rally of potentially tens of thousands of people against Congress, particularly when he knew, or should have known, that the rally could turn violent and overwhelm security forces. It wouldn’t matter whether such a president didn’t actually call for or intend violence to ensue. It would especially be Congress’s duty to impeach, remove, and disqualify if the rally-run-amok was the culmination of a course of behavior in which the president, who is sworn to uphold the Constitution, (a) willfully undermined the Constitution’s commitment of elections to state control; (b) willfully undermined the constitutionally mandated process by which Congress accepts and tallies state-certified electoral votes, and thus determines which candidate has won the presidency; and (c) once a riot at the Capitol had broken out, willfully failed to use his manifest influence to have the rioters stand down, protecting the vice president, members of Congress, security personnel, and the public.

Impeachment, of course, pertains to abuses of power that demonstrate unfitness for the privilege of public office; it doesn’t require proof of a penal crime. By contrast, the question the committee pressed this week is whether there are grounds for a criminal prosecution of former President Trump specifically for the riot. Unlike impeachment, a penal crime entails being subject to imprisonment — i.e., the deprivation not of a privilege, but of the fundamental right to liberty. Criminal prosecution is thus a legal process, not a political one. The government must overcome the accused’s right to be presumed innocent by proving every element of the crime, including intent, beyond a reasonable doubt.

In its attempts to prove Trump’s criminal — as opposed to political and moral — culpability for the Capitol riot, the January 6 committee has thus far come up short.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Insurrection and the Second American Civil War
« Reply #1603 on: July 17, 2022, 08:39:59 AM »
Maybe he is just staying in his lane i.e. legal issues?

G M

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Re: Insurrection and the Second American Civil War
« Reply #1604 on: July 17, 2022, 08:59:48 AM »
Maybe he is just staying in his lane i.e. legal issues?

He had no problem criticizing Tucker for raising the topic a while back. I don't know he has ever walked back that criticism since a mountain of evidence now clearly demonstrates J6 was a fed op.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Insurrection and the Second American Civil War
« Reply #1605 on: July 17, 2022, 09:22:41 AM »
Fair enough.

DougMacG

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The Trump Insurrection (Jan 6) that never was
« Reply #1606 on: July 21, 2022, 10:37:04 AM »
https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-ivanka-trump-biden-entertainment-elections-3e3dc618ed8cee37147cf6a792c0c0fa

WASHINGTON (AP) — The House Jan. 6 committee aims to show in its final hearing Thursday that Donald Trump’s lies about a stolen election fueled the grisly U.S. Capitol attack, which he did nothing to stop but instead “gleefully” watched on television at the White House.

[Doug]  Lies?  Isn't the truth still in dispute, plus if they admit he believed it true, it isn't a lie, right? 
He watched "gleefully" as his election was stolen, he believed.  That's hard to believe.


The prime-time hearing will dive into the 187 minutes that Trump failed to act on Jan. 6, 2021, despite pleas for help from aides, allies and even his family. The panel intends to show how the defeated president’s attempt to overturn Joe Biden’s election victory has left the United States facing enduring questions about the resiliency of its democracy.

“A profound moment of reckoning for America,” said Rep. Jamie Raskin, D-Md., a member of the committee.

With live testimony from two former White House aides, and excerpts from its trove of more than 1,000 interviews, the nearly two-hour session will add a closing chapter to the past six weeks of hearings that at times have captivated the nation.

[Doug] Two more aides we hadn't heard of - until they turned on Trump.

Returning to prime time for the first time since the series of hearings began, the panel aims to show just how close the United States came to what one retired federal judge testifying this summer called a constitutional crisis.

[Doug]  "Returning to prime time" indicates show trial, not investigation?

The events of Jan. 6 will be outlined “minute by minute,” said the panel’s vice chair, Rep. Liz Cheney, R-Wyo.

“You will hear that Donald Trump never picked up the phone that day to order his administration to help,” Cheney said.

“He did not call the military. His Secretary of Defense received no order. He did not call his Attorney General. He did not talk to the Department of Homeland Security,” Cheney said. “Mike Pence did all of those things; Donald Trump did not.”

   [Doug]  Another Liz Cheney string of what Trump didn't do, without mentioning fderal help turned down previously.  Who did Mike Pence work for, BTW?

The hearing will also show never-before-seen outtakes of a Jan. 7 video that White House aides pleaded for Trump to make as a message of national healing for the country. The footage will show how Trump struggled to condemn the mob of his supporters, who violently breached the Capitol, according to a person familiar with the matter and granted anonymity to discuss it ahead of its public release. Trump reluctantly condemned the riot in a three-minute speech that night.

Testifying Thursday will be former White House aides who had close proximity to power.

Matt Pottinger, who was deputy national security adviser, and Sarah Matthews, then press aide, both submitted their resignations on Jan. 6, 2021, after what they saw that day.

[Doug] Jan 2021 resignations don't mean very much when you are already packing up.

Thank God it's (soon) over.  Now can we investigate those drop boxes and their tie to the Left Vote industry?  The arson summer of 2020.  Antifa is not an insurrectionist organization?   And when HRC and Stacey Abrams admitted their election defeats were legitimate?  Or were THOSE the Big Lies?

DougMacG

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Re: Insurrection and the Second American Civil War
« Reply #1607 on: July 23, 2022, 05:44:04 AM »
Final prime time hearing, Trump poured gasoline on the fire (with his alleged inaction).  Wait.  No he didn't.  There was no fire.  No gasoline. Just hateful politician using bad metaphors. Bad metaphors that point to real violence, the George Floyd overreaction violence that destroyed thousands of buildings including the Minneapolis Police precinct station, never to reopen.

Will the Capitol ever recover?  Didn't it reopen that same day?  No fire.  No gasoline.  (No handcuffs on AOC.)  Just politicians doing what politicians do best.  Lying to their constituents.

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/january-6-prime-time-hearing-july-21-2022-panel-probes-trumps-actions-capitol-riot

Maybe the gas on the fire was the cheating in the election.  Investigate THAT.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 09:03:16 AM by DougMacG »

ccp

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18 million viewers saw 1/6 hearing
« Reply #1608 on: July 23, 2022, 07:16:35 AM »
posted on never Trump website
drudge

but not mentioned is I had 16 (yes I counter) stations
on my cable that carried the TV produced show

there was a lot less to watch

so yes the choreographed program was watched by a decent number of people partly through default

I am still not sure what we learned we did not already know or read about in the news

we knew Trump's personality caused him to wait some time to finally come out with a statement

we already knew some staff resigned due to this etc.

we already knew many including Hannity McCarthy Ivanka were pleading with him to speak sooner

I don't think there was a. single thing I did not already know.

for God's sake we all saw it on TV when it happened

and we all read and saw what happened during the '20 election too.

The stories have not changed
 
just told in one sided ways to try to brainwash us into thinking a certain way about it.

G M

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When the Republic died
« Reply #1609 on: July 23, 2022, 04:00:13 PM »
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1534161245686874114.html

I am going to post a note here I received this morning from a January Sixther. I will post it without comment. Feel free to read it and then come to your own conclusions:

"I listen to your podcast and I follow @julie_kellyz. It’s every bit as bad as she describes. I am a husband and father who has zero criminal history…. And I am looking at years in prison AFTER I took a plea.

"You may ask why would people take a plea if they are innocent? Innocent has nothing to do with this as my lawyer has told over and over again. This is payback. There are only a handful of representatives in DC that care about us. The vast majority couldn’t care less.

"They secretly despise Trump and anyone on the 6th as well. The DOJ knows this. There will be no reform of this government. There will be no going back. All there is now is the path ahead. But that path will never lead back to the country we once were.

"I watched for 4 years as our government that I pay taxes for, try to impeach and even oust our president with sheer impunity. Hillary’s smearing stunt morphed into a coup that lasted Trumps entire term. Then I watched the election get stolen from the American people.

"So I went to DC to support the way I thought best. I wasn’t violent, I didn’t break anything, I didn’t steal anything and that doesn’t matter. I lost my 6 figure income, friends, and my family is a wreck. I had the FBI in my home, I was brought before a judge in shackles.

"And I am a lucky one. I got to remain free till sentencing. So this is the country that I now live in. Where the powerful few can attack an elected president attempting to removing him for 4 years and where elections no longer matter.

"We are no longer free. And this country WAS taken without firing a single shot. Guns are meaningless at this point. It was the First Amendment that people should have been fighting for the most.

"I am now barely making a living doing manual labor for just over minimum wage until my sentencing is over. I was threatened with 20 years in prison, something only murderers face. We couldn’t change the venue and none of the motions to dismiss were accepted.

"So, at the pleading of my wife, the extreme bias of DC and it’s “jury pool of my peers” and advice from my lawyer, I destroyed a part of me and signed a paper full of exaggerations, lies and more importantly a narrative that fits what they want.

"I am a Christian and somehow I feel damned. I lied to save my family. My pastor tells me about rehab but it doesn’t help. I don’t look at myself in the mirror anymore. A part of me is dead now. I now wake up longing for the Lord to take me.

"January 6th was a dark day. There was violence by some, that’s reprehensible. No one should have broken anything or stolen anything or hurt anyone. Having said that, January 6th should be remembered as the last outburst from people who were sick of the coups against Trump...

"The lies about Russia gate, the double standard of the Bidens and how they obtained their wealth compared to the treatment of Trump, the double standard of BLM rioters and everyone else...

"The forced LGBTQ pumped into our children minds at school while trying to shut out God at every corner, the endless wars, the celebrations of abortions, the government spending that has put children not even born into life long debt, the list goes on…

"This was the last cry out for the death of a nation. I don’t know what’s going to happen to my family while I’m gone for years. My wife has depended on me our whole marriage. She is the only woman I have ever been with, the only woman I have ever loved.

"I hope she and my kids can make it without me. I am a J6er and I am going to prison."
« Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 09:25:33 PM by Crafty_Dog »

G M

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A very legalistic denial
« Reply #1610 on: July 25, 2022, 07:08:20 AM »

G M

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Crafty_Dog

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Re: Insurrection and the Second American Civil War
« Reply #1612 on: July 25, 2022, 08:30:32 AM »
Let's keep an eye for more on this.

ccp

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Merrick is fullest advocate for rule of law
« Reply #1613 on: July 26, 2022, 02:09:58 PM »
"Look, we pursue justice without fear or favor," Garland told NBC News' Lester Holt,"

right ........... :roll:

to the 77 million who voted Trump - > up yours, in a round about way.

« Last Edit: July 26, 2022, 02:12:42 PM by ccp »

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Re: Multiple bomb threats on AL colleges
« Reply #1616 on: July 27, 2022, 10:35:33 PM »
When the threat is guns they want gun control, ban guns.  When the threat is bombs, do we want bomb control legislation?  How many bombs does a person need? Maybe small ones for hunting, see Bill Murray in Caddieshack.  But only the government should have big bombs.  Ban the rest and this problem goes away, right?

G M

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Re: Multiple bomb threats on AL colleges
« Reply #1617 on: July 27, 2022, 10:49:02 PM »
When the threat is guns they want gun control, ban guns.  When the threat is bombs, do we want bomb control legislation?  How many bombs does a person need? Maybe small ones for hunting, see Bill Murray in Caddieshack.  But only the government should have big bombs.  Ban the rest and this problem goes away, right?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50339977

I blame the Swedish Grenade Association!

Swedish police do not record or release the ethnicity of suspects or convicted criminals, but intelligence chief Linda H Straaf says many do share a similar profile.

"They have grown up in Sweden and they are from socio-economically weak groups, socio-economically weak areas, and many are perhaps second- or third-generation immigrants," she says.

Diversity is our strength!




G M

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Lyin’ Ted vs. Lyin’ Wray
« Reply #1621 on: August 04, 2022, 10:35:00 AM »

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Turly : conservative state NATO
« Reply #1623 on: August 09, 2022, 08:13:52 AM »
« Last Edit: August 09, 2022, 08:15:37 AM by ccp »

G M

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How the Trump raid worsens Low Intensity Conflict
« Reply #1624 on: August 09, 2022, 10:04:06 AM »
The Trump Raid and Domestic Conflict
 

BOTTOM LINE UP FRONT: I address the rise in social media discussions of domestic conflict following yesterday's FBI raid on Mar-A-Lago. In short, this is an accelerator and not a trigger.

 

Yesterday, the Federal Bureau of Investigation raided Mar-A-Lago, the home of former President Donald Trump.

 

I've seen numerous predictions, concerns, and questions about how the Mar-A-Lago raid affects the ongoing Low Intensity Conflict, or encourages violence or domestic conflict.

 

When analyzing low intensity conflicts, we have to look at structural fault lines, accelerators, and triggers.

 

A structural fault line is a rift or "cleavage" that divides people. Fault lines can be political, ideological, religious, racial or ethnic, class-based, or based on any other issue. This is a dividing line that pits one group of people against another.

 

An accelerator of conflict is any condition or event that increases social tensions. Accelerators inflame social bases and make violence a possibility, but they don't cause 'the pot to boil over'.

 

A trigger is any event that moves belligerents to violence. This can be a lone wolf carrying out planned violence or seeking opportunistic violence, or "organized political violence" which is coordinated among numerous individuals.

 

As of this morning, there's been no comment or explanation from federal officials. An expected forthcoming statement will go a long way in guiding where the country goes from here.

 

A "slam dunk" justification might assuage fears the the FBI was further weaponized against a political opponent. Trump supporters will continue to grumble, but a credible justification -- or one seen as credible by Middle America -- will likely reduce most tensions.

 

Alternatively, any appearance that the raid was politically-motivated (i.e., for something related to political but not criminal matters) will further tarnish the FBI and Justice Department, and create substantial social backlash.

 

In my view, this is an accelerator of domestic conflict, but not a trigger.

 

One possible outcome is that the FBI's response is seen as "weak," which will confirm perceptions that federal law enforcement continues to be weaponized against political opponents.

 

Another possible outcome is that the FBI announces an end of their investigation, or that no criminal charges will be filed because no evidence of wrongdoing was uncovered.

 

Yet another possibility is that criminal charges are eventually filed, and federal prosecutors seek prison time. I do believe this will be a trigger for political violence, which will justify further crackdowns against the dissident Right. I think this could, unfortunately, lead to a spiral of worsening violence.

 

For me, this is another reason to do your Area Study and identify elements on all sides of the political spectrum that may be capable of political violence.

 

And, as always, we'll continue to track Low Intensity Conflict at Forward Observer. I've hired a new analyst to help me compile data and update an Early Warning matrix, which we'll be unveiling later this month.

 

Don't be left in the dark on what comes next.

 

Our daily Early Warning intelligence brief helps readers anticipate future events and conditions, whether that's domestic political violence, military conflict with China, or any other disruption to food/agriculture, energy, or the economy.

 

We report on what matters.

 

You can get these vital briefings here: https://forwardobserver.com/subscribe

 

Until next time, be well and stay out front.

 

Always Out Front,

Mike Shelby

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Re: How the Trump raid worsens Low Intensity Conflict
« Reply #1625 on: August 09, 2022, 11:08:03 AM »
"Alternatively, any appearance that the raid was politically-motivated (i.e., for something related to political but not criminal matters) will further tarnish the FBI and Justice Department, and create substantial social backlash."


    - Any appearance it was politically-motivated?  Joking, right?

"The man's name should not be allowed to appear on a ballot ever again."
    - That is a direct quote - of every member of the 'committee'.

G M

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What are you prepared to do?
« Reply #1626 on: August 11, 2022, 10:41:56 PM »
Don't answer here. Just something to contemplate.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPZ6eaL3S2E

I have a thread on surviving what is coming. This is not that thread.

Fighting tyranny doesn't just mean death. It means suffering, inprisonment, torture and then a brutal death in some cases.

Walking the path of the warrior means embracing the above outcomes. The machine will destroy you in every way possible.

http://www.holidayhouse.com/docs/WashValleyForge.pdf

Bloody footprints in the snow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXBswFfh6AY

There is no place to run to. No one is coming to rescue us.

Plan accordingly.

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/34738-and-how-we-burned-in-the-camps-later-thinking-what

« Last Edit: August 11, 2022, 11:08:44 PM by G M »



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Crafty_Dog

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Nice chronological summary
« Reply #1636 on: August 19, 2022, 12:57:23 AM »
Looks like the writing style was designed to end run censorship

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They hate us and want us dead
« Reply #1637 on: August 19, 2022, 08:07:14 AM »





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Kathy Hochul reads forum
« Reply #1642 on: August 26, 2022, 07:10:32 AM »
She reiterates GMs strategy :

https://nypost.com/2022/08/25/kathy-hochuls-call-for-5-4m-republicans-to-leave-new-york-is-dangerous/

I am trying to figure out what she has done to her face
botox or surgery to tighten it up

if 5.4 million Republicans were to leave NY
only the rich limo Democrats would be paying all the bills - good idea actually

 :-D

G M

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Re: Kathy Hochul reads forum
« Reply #1643 on: August 26, 2022, 07:16:47 AM »
We need to ship more illegals up there to stimulate their economy!


She reiterates GMs strategy :

https://nypost.com/2022/08/25/kathy-hochuls-call-for-5-4m-republicans-to-leave-new-york-is-dangerous/

I am trying to figure out what she has done to her face
botox or surgery to tighten it up

if 5.4 million Republicans were to leave NY
only the rich limo Democrats would be paying all the bills - good idea actually

 :-D

G M

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