Author Topic: Money/inflation, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, BTC, crypto, Gold  (Read 671337 times)

ya

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GBTC

DougMacG

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Re: WSJ: Pay attention to 10 year Treasury bills
« Reply #2651 on: October 10, 2023, 12:41:04 AM »
From the article, Kevin Warsh, former member Federal Reserve,

"Economics is the business of making choices amid uncertainty. But with long-term bond rates so low for so long, there has been nothing but a nagging conscience to keep many policy makers from acting irresponsibly. Don’t choose between A and B—choose both. That’s why we are in this fix.The U.S. is courting trouble. The federal government is 43% larger than it was four years ago, and its reach is expanding mightily."



(Doug). Regarding excess spending and the resulting rise in inflation, what did policy makers think would happen?

Rep Jim Clyburn answered that," all of us knew... "

What happened politically to coincide with those four years?

Democrats took the House, Jan 2019.  Then took the Senate and the White House.  Republican President Donald Trump left with Covid, March 2020, in terms of policy, replaced with DemocraticPresident Donald Trump. Not one constraint on spending or supply side growth policy happened after that time. Republicans took the House back Jan of this year with no power (or will) to reverse any of it.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2023, 04:20:37 AM by DougMacG »

Crafty_Dog

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RANE: Dollarization for Argentina?
« Reply #2652 on: October 12, 2023, 07:34:30 AM »
Considering Dollarization in Argentina, Part 1
undefined and Global Economy Analyst at RANE
Markus Jaeger
Global Economy Analyst at RANE, Stratfor
6 MIN READOct 12, 2023 | 14:15 GMT





Editor's note: This is the first installment of a two-part series on the impacts of Argentina's potential dollarization under Javier Milei, should he win the country's presidential election. The first part examines the way dollarization affects emerging economies, and the second will analyze challenges specific to Argentina.

Popular economic frustration has increased sharply in Argentina in recent years against the backdrop of rising inflation and fears of a renewed external default. This sentiment has led Javier Milei, a libertarian who will contest in the first round of the presidential election on Oct. 22, to propose replacing the peso with the U.S. dollar as Argentina's national currency. This "dollarization" is so appealing to voters that polls suggest Milei will win the presidency.

Argentina appears to be coming full circle. A little more than 30 years ago, the government of former Argentine President Carlos Menem established a so-called currency board, which closely tied the peso to the dollar and can be thought of as a lesser form of dollarization. While Argentina abandoned the regime in the wake of its 2001 financial default, Milei appears to have returned to this dollar-forward mindset with a vengeance.

Fixed exchange rates over time
Three decades ago, fixed exchange rates were very popular among emerging economies. They provided a monetary anchor to establish and maintain domestic price stability, and they kept the value of the currency stable vis-a-vis an anchor currency, typically the dollar, thereby facilitating international trade and cross-border capital flows. Fixed-exchange rate pegs — or, in the case of Argentina, a currency board — helped countries overcome high inflation and economic instability following the developing market debt crises of the 1980s when many governments resorted to printing money to manage their financial problems.

Currency pegs have since gone out of fashion, at least among the top-tier emerging economies. Oftentimes, crises forced governments to abandon their rigid exchange rate regimes and embrace more adjustable ones to give policymakers greater macroeconomic flexibility. Most Asian economies were forced off their pegs in the 1997 financial crisis, while Mexico was pushed off its peg in 1994-95, Brazil in 1998-99 and Russia in 1998. Today, most major emerging economies have moved toward more flexible exchange rate arrangements by establishing sufficiently credible institutions, including independent central banks, that enable them to maintain price and general economic stability.

To be sure, there are some outliers. Oil-exporting Gulf countries and many small Caribbean island economies have not loosened their exchange rate regimes due to their economic dependence on the dollar through oil exports or close ties with the U.S. economy. Even so, most of these countries have pursued the sort of stability-oriented macro-policies required to maintain their dollar pegs, unlike Argentina.

Dollarization constrains macroeconomic flexibility
Under a fixed exchange rate system, a country foregoes control over monetary and exchange rate policy. Domestic interest rates must be changed in lockstep with the interest rates of the country to whose currency the local currency is pegged, unless controls limit capital inflows and outflows; if the domestic interest rate is lower than in the anchor country, capital outflows will lead to a loss of foreign exchange reserves and ultimately currency devaluation. Therefore, a fixed exchange rate that is pegged to the dollar under an open capital account forces a country to set its short-term interest rates by the U.S. Federal Reserve, sharply constraining central bank monetary policy. Under dollarization, the policy rate is similarly set by the Federal Reserve, and there is no possibility of adjusting the exchange rate, short of de-dollarizing.

By constraining macroeconomic flexibility and a government's ability to respond to external shocks, fixed exchange rate regimes increase the risk of a loss of investor confidence in times of high debt and slow economic growth. This risk is even higher under full dollarization because the central bank only has a limited amount of dollars to address liquidity crises in case investors are reluctant to finance the government or the financial system comes under pressure. A loss of investor confidence jeopardizes government debt sustainability and the stability of the financial system.

To combat this danger, countries with fixed exchange rate regimes must preserve their fiscal policy flexibility. If, for example, a country suffers an external shock, as Argentina did in the late 1990s following Brazil's currency devaluation and lower export revenues due to lower commodity prices, economic growth slows. Unable to cut interest rates or devalue the currency, an expansionary fiscal policy gives policymakers in a country with a fixed exchange rate the best option to support the economy. But if a high debt burden limits the ability of a country to run an expansionary fiscal policy, the economy will run below potential, at least temporarily. In fact, if public debt is high and investors worry that low growth and high interest rates will lead to a rapid increase in government debt, a country may be forced to pursue a restrictive fiscal policy instead of an expansionary one, further slowing economic activity. Interest rates may even rise as the risk premium demanded by investors increases, even though the economy is in the doldrums. Additionally, political imperatives can make disciplined fiscal policy very difficult to execute, particularly if the government is forced into a pro-cyclical fiscal policy tightening during economic downturns on account of investor concerns about debt and financial stability.

No more printing under dollarization
Under full dollarization, a country loses seigniorage, the income that is generated through currency issuance. Denying the government seigniorage is, of course, a big part of the rationale for dollarizing the economy in the first place, namely to remove policymakers' incentive and ability to generate extra revenue by way of higher inflation. In addition to the ongoing loss of seigniorage, dollarization also generates significant one-off costs. These are tied to the need to acquire the dollars necessary to dollarize the economy and replace the monetary base. One can call this negative seigniorage because it involves repurchasing previously issued currency (peso) with newly acquired dollars.

Finally, dollarization sharply curtails the central bank's ability to act as a lender of last resort. Under dollarization, the central bank cannot "print" money or offer unlimited amounts of liquidity in case of systemic instability. This increases default risk in terms of sovereign debt and the risk of a systemic banking sector crisis. Even if the central bank requires banks to hold a liquidity reserve, the fact that there is a limit to how much the central bank can lend to the sovereign or the banking sector during a crisis will increase the risk of a financial crisis turning systemic. Under a fixed exchange rate regime, the country would be forced off the currency peg if it provides significant amounts of local-currency liquidity. In a dollarized regime, the government and the banking sector would be forced into default in the event of a severe financial shock due to the limited ability of the government to provide liquidity and financial support.

ccp

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Jamie Dimon
« Reply #2653 on: October 13, 2023, 09:15:38 AM »

Crafty_Dog

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Question for YA
« Reply #2654 on: October 13, 2023, 10:23:21 AM »
YA:  You had hopes for Oct 12 being a big day for crypto.

What happened?

Crafty_Dog

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RANE: Dollarization for Argentina? Part Two
« Reply #2655 on: October 14, 2023, 02:29:42 AM »
Considering Dollarization in Argentina, Part 2
undefined and Global Economy Analyst at RANE
Markus Jaeger
Global Economy Analyst at RANE, Stratfor
Oct 13, 2023 | 18:52 GMT





A supporter of Argentine presidential candidate Javier Milei, who has pledged to dollarize the country's economy, holds up a gigant fake U.S. dollar bill with Milei's face on it during a rally in Buenos Aires on Sept. 25, 2023.
A supporter of Argentine presidential candidate Javier Milei, who has pledged to dollarize the country's economy, holds up a gigant fake U.S. dollar bill with Milei's face on it during a rally in Buenos Aires on Sept. 25, 2023.
(Tomas Cuesta/Getty Images)

Editor's note: This is the second installment of a two-part series on the impacts of Argentina's potential dollarization under Javier Milei, should he win the country's presidential election. The first part, which can be found here, examines the way dollarization affects emerging economies, and the second analyzes challenges specific to Argentina.

In Argentina, presidential candidate Javier Milei — a libertarian who has promised to overhaul the country's economic system, including by replacing the Argentine peso with the U.S. dollar — is currently leading the polls ahead of the Oct. 22 presidential election, fueling fears that the country could soon be ''dollarized.'' In light of Milei's expected victory, it's important to look at the unique challenges dollarization would pose in Argentina, given the country's history of hyperinflation, economic crises and political instability.

The Importance of Trade Structures
Dollarization is most practical for countries that are highly integrated in terms of international trade and financial flows, particularly those of the economy whose currency they adopt. For example, European countries' economic interdependence facilitated their adoption of the euro, which has been broadly successful. Similarly, countries that conduct a large share of their trade with dollar-based economies may find that a fixed exchange rate improves access to their markets by creating exchange rate stability.

However, less than 10% of Argentine exports go to the United States. Thus, if Argentina dollarizes and the dollar appreciates by a significant percentage against all other currencies, Argentina's exports will become less competitive. Moreover, the prices of most of Argentina's exports (such as agricultural products, energy and metals) tend to fluctuate more frequently and more widely than those of manufactured goods. This makes Argentina even more vulnerable to real exchange rate misalignment and large commodity shocks resulting from decreased export revenue.

One way countries with fixed exchange rates try to adjust their economies to such external shocks is by a so-called ''internal devaluation'' by way of domestic prices and lower wages, thereby raising the competitiveness of their exports. This strategy works best for countries whose trade makes up a large part of their economy. However, Argentina is a very closed economy, with trade accounting for only one-third of gross domestic product. This means the primary strategy that Argentina could use to protect itself from shocks caused by lower export revenues would be difficult to execute and could cause significant harm at home.

Operational Challenges
Operationally, Argentina would need to acquire sufficient dollars to dollarize its economy. However, the government is a net foreign currency debtor, as well as a net international debtor, meaning it does not have enough dollar assets to finance a major dollar purchase. In fact, the government just repaid the International Monetary Fund in yuan rather than dollars. Even the Central Bank, typically a net foreign currency creditor, sits on a negative net dollar position. Argentina may be on the verge of yet another default, which would make it even more unrealistic to borrow the dollars required to replace the peso. Finally, a recent ruling by a New York court that awarded $16 billion worth of damages to a plaintiff to compensate it for financial losses incurred in the context of Argentina's expropriation of state-run energy company YPF a decade ago will further complicate Argentina's attempt to raise dollars, whether it defaults or not in the coming months.

To get around this challenge, Argentina could nationalize private-sector dollar assets, but this would be politically controversial and could scare off future foreign investment. It may not even help Argentina make dollar purchases because few foreign investors might be prepared to enter a transaction where such assets are pledged as collateral or where they would be expected to purchase them outright, given that they could become subject to litigation. In short, it is not clear where Argentina would find the dollars to dollarize its economy.

Adding to these challenges is that political risk could rise and a bank run could quickly emerge. First, it is important to consider that the Ecuadorian president who decreed dollarization in 2000 was ousted within a few weeks of his decision. So regardless of the economic-financial effects of a conversion, political risk might increase independently. In addition, if depositors were to withdraw their funds in order to try to convert them into dollars, it could trigger a banking crisis.

While a new government could impose a bank holiday to try to mitigate this risk, Javier Milei, Argentina's leading presidential candidate, has made dollarization a key part of his campaign. While Milei has more recently slightly backtracked on his radical proposals due to pushback from the private sector, citizens will not wait for him to take office and will increasingly start to pull their deposits if his victory looks likely. Current polls suggest that no presidential candidate will reach the threshold needed to win outright in the first round on Oct. 22. The period between then and the likely runoff race on Nov. 19 could thus be particularly precarious as depositors get nervous about an eventual Milei victory.

But Argentines who withdraw their deposits will find that the black market exchange rate has already adjusted in anticipation of dollarization, with dollars likely to become increasingly scarce — putting further pressure on the peso exchange rate and inflation. They may then quickly realize that they'd prefer to keep their funds in interest-bearing bank deposits instead of moving their money under mattresses, particularly given Argentina's very high inflation. But just because depositors may not be able to purchase the dollars after emptying their bank accounts does not mean they won't initially do so; after all, fear often outweighs complex economic logic during times of crisis. Instead, history has repeatedly shown that depositors, even if they are unlikely to benefit, will rush to remove their funds — meaning Argentina's banking sector could come under severe liquidity pressure, unless the government steps in forcefully.

How Have Other Dollarized Economies in Latin America Fared?

Dollarization poses plenty of risks, particularly in Argentina. It's thus key to consider how other regional economies fared after dollarizing. In Latin America, Panama adopted the dollar in 1904, Ecuador in 2000 and El Salvador in 2001. Panama has arguably been the most successful of the three, even though it did on occasion experience exogenous shocks and financial instability. But over the past 119 years, Panama has managed to maintain dollarization, low inflation and fair levels of economic growth. Moreover, neither Ecuador nor El Salvador has experienced an economic or financial meltdown since dollarizing, but both countries are currently on the verge of a sovereign default. In fact, Ecuador restructured its debt with China in 2022, highlighting the fact that its dollarized economy is financially fragile. Given its history and current economic situation, Argentina is more likely to follow the path of Ecuador and El Salvador rather than of Panama.

For dollarization to work, governments need to run disciplined fiscal policies and create ample space to respond to economic and financial shocks. If they cannot do this, dollarization will lead to a build-up of financial vulnerabilities, financial instability and sovereign default. And a default in a dollarized regime is extremely messy, economically and politically, as banks are typically government creditors, forcing banks to write their creditors, including depositors.

What to Glean From Argentina's Political History
Argentina's economic and political history gives little reason for optimism that full dollarization will be sustainable in the longer term. Argentina has defaulted nine times in its history and has experienced high or even hyperinflation. The country even managed to default on its IMF loans and may soon do so again. Unless Argentina manages to fundamentally change its politics and maybe political system, the government will be too weak and/or the political-distributional conflict over economic and fiscal resources will be too high for the country to muster the economic discipline needed to maintain dollarization.

Full dollarization will only prove sustainable if policymakers pursue fiscally responsible policies. But in Argentina's case, dollarization is being promoted precisely because the government cannot maintain macroeconomic discipline. Leaving aside operational-political issues (such as whether a new president would be able to slash spending, particularly if he or she lacks sufficient support in Congress), maintaining long-term discipline is crucial for the system to deliver both low inflation and financial stability. If Argentina dollarizes, its economy and financial fate will continue to hinge on the government's ability and willingness to act in a financially responsible way. Otherwise, dollarization will go the way of Argentina's failed currency board, which pegged the peso to the U.S. dollar between 1991 and 2002.

A Risky Option
Since Argentina's economic history casts significant doubt on policymakers' ability to maintain fiscal discipline, the country would likely be better off reforming its economic regime as neighboring Chile, Colombia and Peru have done. These countries have independent central banks and pursue fairly disciplined fiscal policies, which enable them to operate fairly flexible exchange rate regimes and conduct more independent interest rate policies capable of absorbing exogenous shocks. Similar to Argentina, both Chile and Peru are highly susceptible to terms-of-trade shocks on account of their commodity-heavy export structure, showing that Argentina does, in fact, have options if it ever manages to resolve the aforementioned domestic political and structural economic challenges. Even Brazil's economic policy regime suggests that a somewhat less disciplined fiscal policy can be compatible with reasonable levels of inflation as long as the central bank is independent. Unlike Argentina, Brazil benefits from a low level of foreign-currency debt, making it easier for policymakers to let the exchange rate float and target inflation. But if Argentina managed to put in place such a regime, there would be no need to run the greater financial instability risks that come with dollarization.

In this sense, full dollarization is the second-best solution to the inflation and economic instability problem. It is also a solution that is fraught with very substantial risks. Such a regime would limit the monetary policy discretion and translate into lower inflation. But as long as the government is unable to conduct a disciplined fiscal policy, dollarization will not provide anything close to a sustainable solution to Argentina's long-standing economic problems. In short, if the next president decides to dollarize the economy, Argentina's goal of economic and financial stability will remain elusive in the long run.

ya

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Re: Question for YA
« Reply #2656 on: October 16, 2023, 04:53:16 AM »
YA:  You had hopes for Oct 12 being a big day for crypto.

What happened?

Some technical array indicators were showing a big day in light of the expected GBTC ETF decision. Its happening now, as the market digests the news, 2 business days later. This week is important, for news will leak about the SEC GBTC talks. If an ETF is in the cards, BTC will do well as the implication is that the BlackRock and other ETF's will also get approved either this year, or perhaps by Jan 10, 2024, with the latest being March 2024.

Crafty_Dog

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Thank you.

ya

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This was posted on Oct 10, along with a Panic cycle for today. !


ya

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ya

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ya

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ccp

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Ya,

Can you please translate into layman's terms the above entanglement of lines?


Crafty_Dog

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My simple-minded doggy brain sees when red crosses blue to the downside, BTC goes up.

ya

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Ya,

Can you please translate into layman's terms the above entanglement of lines?

BTC is expected to go up for the next 2 years or so (based on past performance). If someone is a holder of BTC and wants to cash out, the minimum target is a 100 K this cycle. Will comment, if we get anywhere near 100 k. :-D

ya

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In the meantime, this is a good article on security practices...This is the reason BTC is still cheap, since institutions still struggle with custody of BTC. These problems are being solved by several custodial services and banks also getting into the business.

https://blog.keys.casa/security-issues-with-browser-based-bitcoin-wallets/

ya

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Here's a timetable of when the BTC ETF's are likely to be approved. I expect all of them to be approved by Jan 10, 2024 at the latest, since that is when the ARK ETF deadline expires. SEC wants to avoid favoritism, so all will be approved at the same time.



DougMacG

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Re: IRS Proposes Rules Severely Limiting Utility of Crypto
« Reply #2668 on: October 24, 2023, 06:37:55 PM »
They also plan to severely limit the use of cash.

Crafty_Dog

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WSJ: After SBF
« Reply #2669 on: November 04, 2023, 05:55:06 AM »
By
Alexander Osipovich
Follow
Nov. 4, 2023 5:30 am ET




Sam Bankman-Fried is gone. And crypto is back to its favorite activity: a wild speculative rally.

The FTX founder’s trial featured a parade of witnesses detailing a multibillion-dollar fraud at the heart of the crypto market. None of it dented the enthusiasm of crypto investors. During the trial, crypto prices surged on optimism that U.S. regulators would allow an exchange-traded fund that holds bitcoin. Bitcoin is up more than 25% since the start of October and recently touched an 18-month high.

Meanwhile, the ambitions of cryptocurrency advocates to remake the traditional financial system remain a distant dream.

Companies that once seemed like pillars of a new digital-asset economy, such as FTX and crypto lender Genesis Global, are bankrupt. Venture-capital investment in crypto has fallen to its lowest level since 2020. Investors have pulled back from previously hot efforts to build the equivalent of banks and exchanges using blockchain technology.

Bankman-Fried was once a major advocate for the idea that crypto would swallow traditional finance. When he was still an industry darling, he mused about acquiring Goldman Sachs. In July 2022 he told The Wall Street Journal of his ambitions to turn FTX into a sort of financial supermarket, offering everything from payments to lending to stock trading.

None of that will happen now. On Thursday, Bankman-Fried was convicted of seven criminal counts of fraud and conspiracy. His lawyer said he would continue to fight the charges.


Crypto’s own ambitions have narrowed since the downfall of FTX.

The furor over ETF approval is largely based on the notion that bitcoin can serve as a store of value—a form of digital gold. Crypto investors have long hoped that regulators will allow a “spot” bitcoin ETF, holding the actual coins instead of futures linked to the price of bitcoin. Much like inflows into gold funds can buoy the price of the precious metal, crypto investors hope that the launch of a bitcoin ETF could spur a rally in bitcoin.

The bitcoin ETF hype shows how far crypto has evolved from its dreams of disrupting Wall Street. Big money managers such as BlackRock and Fidelity Investments stand to earn fees if their bitcoin ETFs get the green light.

A bitcoin ETF would also do little to make crypto a viable form of money, used to purchase goods and services. That was the original vision of bitcoin, laid out by its pseudonymous creator, Satoshi Nakamoto, in a white paper released 15 years ago. Today, using crypto for real-world payments is practically impossible, and ranks as a low priority for crypto companies.



To be sure, hard-core devotees still hope to create a decentralized financial system. They say locking up criminals such as Bankman-Fried will make it easier for honest developers to build innovative projects.

“Next cycle, we need to do better as an industry,” Hayden Adams, creator of decentralized exchange Uniswap, tweeted after Bankman-Fried’s verdict on Thursday. Adams urged his fellow crypto supporters to “focus on the tech + our values, recognize the warning signs, and ignore the personality cult sociopaths.”

Decentralized finance, or DeFi, was among the hottest areas of crypto a few years ago. Its idea was to take traditional financial activities such as trading and lending and put them on the blockchain, cutting out banks and other middlemen. Proponents of DeFi said it could help unbanked populations around the world.

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Such aspirations are far from reality. DeFi today largely consists of projects that compete with each other for a slightly faster, more efficient experience for trading digital tokens—in other words, tools for speculation.

Investors have soured on DeFi. Total value locked, a measure of the funds committed to various decentralized-finance projects, is about $42 billion, down sharply from its peak of nearly $180 billion in November 2021, according to data provider DefiLlama.

Crypto conferences are more subdued. Mainnet, an annual crypto event held in New York City, drew about 2,000 people in September, down from more than 3,000 last year, according to Messari, the conference’s organizer. A spokesperson said the 2023 event attracted “quality people and decision makers.”

Venture-capital firms invested $2 billion in crypto firms in the third quarter, down from a peak of $11.5 billion in the first quarter of 2022, according to PitchBook. Venture capitalists—once a huge source of support for crypto startups—have shifted their focus to buzzier areas such as artificial intelligence.

Crafty_Dog

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WSJ: SEC not needed
« Reply #2670 on: November 04, 2023, 05:59:48 AM »
second

Sam Bankman-Fried and the SEC
The feds can police crypto fraud without new regulatory powers.
By
The Editorial Board
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Nov. 3, 2023 6:47 pm ET


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WSJ Opinion: Hits and Misses of the Week
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Journal Editorial Report: The week’s best and worst from Kim Strassel, Bill McGurn and Dan Henninger. Images: AP/Reuters Composite: Mark Kelly
Sam Bankman-Fried charmed investors and politicians, but he wasn’t so fortunate with a federal jury. On Thursday the former FTX crypto-exchange kingpin was convicted of seven counts of fraud and money-laundering. Note to Chairman Gary Gensler: The Securities and Exchange Commission doesn’t need to regulate crypto markets to police malfeasance.

After FTX imploded last autumn, some $9 billion in customer deposits went missing. Prosecutors showed that Mr. Bankman-Fried used the money to fund risky investment bets and cover losses at his Alameda Research trading house, buy influence in Washington, and acquire real estate in the Bahamas.

While Mr. Bankman-Fried claimed he acted in good faith and made innocent mistakes, testimony by FTX and Alameda employees showed the contrary. Prosecutors provided evidence that Mr. Bankman-Fried ordered code to be built into FTX software that gave Alameda special privileges to borrow unlimited sums from the exchange, which he hid from customers and investors. They also showed he directed that Alameda’s balance sheets be doctored to deceive its lenders. As FTX and Alameda losses mounted, Mr. Bankman-Fried assured customers their deposits were safe.

Mr. Gensler has since spun Mr. Bankman-Fried’s fraud as a cautionary tale of the crypto “wild West.” The SEC chief claims crypto currencies are securities—ergo, exchanges and token developers must submit to agency regulation. But a federal judge this year disagreed, and Congress hasn’t given the SEC authority to regulate crypto.

Mr. Gensler has tried to regulate anyway, even before the FTX collapse. But regulators and prosecutors don’t need new powers to charge fraud under existing U.S. laws. And while Mr. Gensler charged crypto companies for marketing unregistered securities and operating unregistered trading platforms, that didn’t stop Mr. Bankman-Fried’s crimes.

Mr. Bankman-Fried scoffed last November to a reporter at Vox that regulators “don’t protect customers” and “can’t actually distinguish between good and bad.” He may have demonstrated his point. One question for Congress to investigate is whether Mr. Gensler’s preoccupation with expanding his regulatory and enforcement power caused the agency to overlook the FTX fraud in plain sight.

DougMacG

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Re: WSJ: SEC not needed
« Reply #2671 on: November 04, 2023, 08:46:39 AM »
The memes make a point this am, if crypto isn't real money how can there be fraud?

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2672 on: November 09, 2023, 07:32:06 AM »
Observation:

VIX was in the 13s, went up to the low 20s, now back at 14.
Oil now below $80
BTC has been surging strongly, huge up day today-- currently at 37!
Interest rates dropping sharply.   30 year hit 5.1% now at 4.7%?

All numbers filtered through my senility.

ccp

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pros cons central bank digital currency
« Reply #2673 on: November 11, 2023, 07:55:19 AM »

DougMacG

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Re: pros cons central bank digital currency
« Reply #2674 on: November 11, 2023, 09:20:55 AM »
https://www.investopedia.com/us-cbdc-6740586

The problem isn't the new federal digital currency. The problem is when they ban all other forms of payment .  Like a hammer wants to hit a nail, all they want is (complete) control over us.

Wasn't it supposed to be the other way around?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2023, 09:20:23 PM by DougMacG »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2675 on: November 12, 2023, 04:10:42 AM »


Doug describes the inherent dynamic precisely.   

I suspect that once they establish it alongside of what exists out of their control they will look to make it so easy to use that people with be sleep walke into it.  Alnndside with this they will gradually make anything not under their control ever less convenient to use.

Somehow Americans must understand that with the ease of digital comes the leash of the government/   What is left of Freedom is gone.

ccp

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Cathy Woods speculates
« Reply #2676 on: November 14, 2023, 01:11:44 PM »
 Genslers decision BTC ETF being affected by polit. ambition

Trump is not fan of BTC either.

So I would expect if he were to win (very big if at best) it would not help BTC.

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2677 on: November 14, 2023, 01:22:33 PM »
With the lower than expected CPI number today a big down day for BTC.

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GPF: Yuan in Russia doubles
« Reply #2678 on: November 14, 2023, 02:17:50 PM »
Chinese currency in Russia. Russian banks more than doubled their provision of corporate loans in Chinese yuan in the first 10 months of this year to 7.2 billion yuan ($990 million), according to the head of Russian commercial bank Rosbank.

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Re: GPF: Yuan in Russia doubles
« Reply #2679 on: November 15, 2023, 05:56:09 AM »
Chinese currency in Russia. Russian banks more than doubled their provision of corporate loans in Chinese yuan in the first 10 months of this year to 7.2 billion yuan ($990 million), according to the head of Russian commercial bank Rosbank.

Sanctions have come to mean placating the American public rather than bringing an adversary to its knees.

Hard to put financial sanctions on one of the world's largest oil and gas producers especially when the largest customer is right next door.

Also, like the belt and road, it opened the door for China to be financially intertwined with Russia.

Democrats thought being the world's reserve currency was racist, or something.  Now we're on a path to third world country status. What if WE had to balance our budget to get a loan?

ccp

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Byron York
« Reply #2680 on: November 15, 2023, 08:27:57 AM »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2681 on: November 16, 2023, 06:25:11 AM »
BTC has been very volatile the last few days.

ya

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2682 on: November 19, 2023, 03:21:46 AM »
BTC pre-halving rally (halving in April 2024) target is 39-50 K. If ETF gets approved, targets will need to adjust upwards.


Crafty_Dog

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2683 on: November 19, 2023, 05:06:52 PM »
So happy I have stayed the course.  Thank you YA!

ya

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2684 on: November 23, 2023, 04:05:27 AM »
For those interested, there is a hardware wallet sale going on
https://trezor.io/trezor-model-t

ya

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2685 on: November 23, 2023, 04:38:03 AM »
Two important events occurred last week, that are bullish for BTC.
1. Javier Milei got elected as President of Argentina. Arg has 140 % inflation and Javier is a professional grade austrian economist, who wants to burn down the Central bank, institute the US dollar and is pro-bitcoin. Argentina is also a G20 nation. At this time there is a team from El Salvador visiting his govt, El Salv uses US currency and Bitcoin as legal tender. Javier is also a libertarian and will likely allow his people to use whatever currency they want. Due to the weak peso, they already use Bitcoin to some extent.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1727773336900427894

2. CZ who is CEO of Binance the largest crypto exchange in the world, is stepping down and the DOJ fined Binance 4.3 Billion $. This according to Gensler (SEC Chair) likely removes the last barriers to the approval of a BTC ETF. He has been quite vocal about the manipulation that goes on at non-US exchanges. Of note, while on paper the US govt is not very pro BTC, the DOJ now effectively controls most large exchanges world wide with respect to KYC requirements.

Other very bullish events:

3. BTC ETF approval is near, perhaps in 2 weeks or by Jan 10. The institutions such as BlackRock, Fidelity etc are raring to offer BTC to the common man. Once approved, one should expect the ESG compliant solution!. BTC will now be part of nearly all portfolios and pension funds. Even a 1 % allocation will be huge, due to something known as the multiplier effect. I can post some educational videos about this if needed. Gold is recommended at 5-10 % of a portfolio.

4. BTC halving in April, this will reduce the supply of new BTC by 50 %. With supply down 50 %, demand increasing, BTC should go up.

5. From 2024 FASB regulations change to allow companies to directly  buy BTC. In the past, the record keeping required for purchase of BTC for tax purposes was quite tricky. It is now greatly simplified. This is actually quite huge and not very well recognized by the lay public.

I expect 2024-2025 to be very bullish. This may be the first time in history that lay people could get into BTC before wall street. Experts are calling BTC a new asset class.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2023, 12:29:04 PM by ya »

ya

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2686 on: November 23, 2023, 05:04:47 AM »
Change of narrative

ya

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2687 on: November 23, 2023, 05:54:21 AM »
Veblen goods




Crafty_Dog

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2688 on: November 23, 2023, 07:07:44 AM »
How best to invest now in BTC ETF?

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2689 on: November 23, 2023, 07:38:53 AM »
Wait for it to be approved, then buy it like any of the thousands of ETF's through a brokerage acct. Buying a SPOT ETF gives you the price appreciation of BTC, but is inferior to buying BTC directly. ETF's have fees, say 0.8 % per year, and you cannot buy a coffee or a house with an ETF. You would have to sell it to $ and then buy. BTC is money that you control, it is permissionless what you do with it. You can send BTC in a few minutes anywhere around the world, for minimal cost, no permission needed.

In my opinion, the ETF's are suitable for 401K or pension plans where you cannot directly hold BTC, or for individuals who are concerned by the relative complexity of holding BTC in self custody.


DougMacG

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2690 on: November 23, 2023, 10:41:19 AM »
Veblen goods



It's true.  I was noticing the same phenomenon of investor psychology.  The picture points out that irony perfectly.  What the pic doesn't show is that at 17 you had an investment product headed downward, maybe to zero, and at 60 you had one headed upward, with almost no limits.  And it's the same Bitcoin.

In hindsight it's simple. You can't buy at the exact low but there were opportunities to buy in the low 20s most of this year.  Now it's at 37.  You made 50% in short order if you bought in the low 20s (and sold now), (with taxes owing).  But of course you didn't sell now because you believe in its future, and on it goes.

If you buy a coffee or a house with it, won't you owe a capital gains tax with every transaction (assuming it's up)?  And if you buy more with every paycheck or every time you cash out of another asset, you'll have a new cost basis to keep track of with each accumulation?

I guess that's part of what the 87,000 new armed IRS agents are for. The income scorekeeping, and threat of trouble, taxes, penalties, jail for screwing up is one of worst headaches of (real estate) investing for me.

Big brother is not going to look the other way on crypto.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2023, 10:43:05 AM by DougMacG »

ccp

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2691 on: November 23, 2023, 11:39:40 AM »
I am concerned about it too if Trump is elected for Crypto

He has already stated his view of it.

ya

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2692 on: November 24, 2023, 03:36:41 AM »
Trump will turn around, BTC is digital gold. Not everyone understands BTC is not crypto.


Crafty_Dog

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2693 on: November 24, 2023, 07:03:27 AM »
37, 500 this morning.

I've not measured precisely, but essentially I am back to break even.

Yay!

Crafty_Dog

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WSJ: Qui Bono? Who pays in Argentina's coming dollarization?
« Reply #2694 on: November 24, 2023, 07:26:17 AM »
Dollarization Is About Who Pays to Clean Up Argentina’s Mess
Greece’s experience with the discipline of the euro shows why Milei’s plan might appeal to voters.
Joseph C. Sternberg
By
Joseph C. Sternberg
Follow
Nov. 22, 2023 6:23 pm ET


Javier Milei knows how to create a stir. Not only has Argentina’s president-elect shaken up his own country’s politics. He also has sparked a global debate about inflation, economic reform and dollarization—and, even more unusual, an interesting debate about these things. It’s a Thanksgiving-week miracle.

Critics of Mr. Milei’s pledge to ditch the dysfunctional peso and embrace the almighty dollar have focused on relatively narrow questions: whether Argentina holds enough dollar reserves to implement such a policy, whether it is likely to have the fiscal discipline to sustain it, whether the banks could survive it, and so on.

What those critics miss is the international example that helps explain what’s really going on in Argentina: Greece.

That Mediterranean country hasn’t dollarized, but it did the next best thing when it joined the euro in 2001—it deutsche-mark-ized. The euro constitutes an attempt by the bloc’s membership to piggyback on the monetary stability of the old deutsche mark. In Greece, this first encouraged an overly enthusiastic inflow of investment. Then, triggered by a big dollop of dishonest government accounting, came a crisis.

The most startling development of Greece’s post-2010 crisis period is that the country never left the euro. This despite the fact that the inability to devalue its way out of the hole instead forced Athens to accept punishing policy conditions. Those will be familiar to Argentines coping with their own current International Monetary Fund borrowing, because the conditions always are the same no matter the bailout: deep spending cuts (especially to transfer payments), steep tax increases and promises of supply-side reforms that may or may not ever materialize.

This suite of policies wasn’t any more popular in Greece than it is anywhere else. Greeks in 2015 elected a far-left anti-euro government under Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras and Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis, who developed a detailed plan to return to the old drachma. This would have allowed Athens to devalue the exchange rate to avoid the “internal devaluation” of brutal cuts to wages and consumption.

Foreign commentators cheered on Messrs. Tsipras and Varoufakis in their war against the euro. Greeks even sort of voted in a botched referendum to leave the currency bloc. Yet Greece stayed with the euro in the end, as Mr. Tsipras apparently came to view the drachma plan as too economically destructive and politically toxic to attempt.

Greek voters had figured out that someone always has to suffer when the economy runs off course. The only question is, who? Devaluation and inflation punish savers and the productive private economy while boosting the fortunes of a bloated government, unproductive enterprises and some asset owners. Greeks apparently decided they wanted to apportion the pain of economic adjustment differently.

And while the euro was restraining in one sense, it proved freeing in another. The dirty secret is that the policy conditions imposed by Greece’s three bailouts were Keynesian flops. No one ever restored an economy to health by taxing it more. Yet it transpires that such conditions are not necessarily requirements for membership in a currency bloc. What is required is a credible commitment to economic growth, and as long as global and domestic investors think the economic plan is plausible they’ll finance it.

This is why current Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis, who ousted Mr. Tsipras in the 2019 election, has focused obsessively on regaining an investment-grade credit rating for Greece—a milestone the country achieved this autumn. That accomplishment required a hefty dose of spending discipline, but also policies to boost productive private investment. The euro has provided a stable foundation.

Which brings us back to Argentina. Mr. Milei’s central insight appears to be that any fix for the perverse mix of economic policies that have produced 140% inflation, soaring poverty and anemic growth will be painful. His dollarization gambit isn’t a promise of an easy way out, but rather a promise to voters about whom he will make to pay for the transition.

Forswearing the option of further currency devaluations constitutes a guarantee to Argentines that savers, small entrepreneurs and poor households won’t pay the heaviest price, via inflation, for the government’s policy errors. Instead, bloated and inefficient state-owned companies, the government and politically connected larger firms will bear the brunt of economic adjustment via reforms such as the privatizations that Mr. Milei promises, reforms that are necessary accompaniments to a dollarization policy.

This is the opposite of the manner in which a devalue-and-inflate plan usually distributes the pain of an economic turnaround. Who knows if dollarization will save Argentina. But understand that Argentinian voters haven’t gambled on an outlandish monetary policy. They’ve sent a signal about what they are and aren’t prepared to pay to clean up their economic mess—or rather, who is and isn’t prepared to pay it.

ya

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2695 on: November 24, 2023, 07:51:46 AM »
37, 500 this morning.

I've not measured precisely, but essentially I am back to break even.

Yay!

Yay...

ya

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2696 on: November 24, 2023, 07:53:05 AM »
I think JM is saying burn down the Central Bank


ya

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2697 on: November 24, 2023, 03:33:08 PM »
Bitcoin's hash rate has been exploding. Seems to me, nation state mining might explain this. The other reason is new mining equipment with better computer chips.


ya

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Re: Money, the Fed, Banking, Monetary Policy, Dollar, bitcoin, crypto, Gold/Silver
« Reply #2698 on: November 25, 2023, 03:08:36 AM »
Hopium alert: This is what happened after the previous halvings.


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Monetary Policy, Spend, Ease like there's no tomorrow, IBD
« Reply #2699 on: November 27, 2023, 06:31:47 AM »
How we got here. Spend, ease like there's no tomorrow,

And then tomorrow comes.

What a mess.

IBD is a pretty prominent source to find a financial doom and gloom article. Loaded with dates, facts and amounts.
-----------------------
https://www.investors.com/news/economy/federal-reserve-broke-the-budget-what-budget-deficits-mean-for-the-economy-and-sp-500/

The Federal Reserve Broke The Budget. Buckle Up For What Comes Next.
Federal Reserve policy concept
The Federal Reserve's years of enabling big budget deficits by keeping interest rates ultralow are over. But the long-term costs are just becoming clear. (© Gary Neill)

JED GRAHAM 07:00 AM ET 11/24/2023
The 10-year Treasury yield set off roaring alarms about the U.S. budget when it surged to 5% last month. Now those warnings look like a fire drill. Federal Reserve rate hikes seem to be over for now, giving the bond market a reprieve and allowing a powerful S&P 500 rally to resume.

Enjoy it while it lasts. The next debt scare may be the real thing, and it could rock the U.S. economy and stock market.

Here's why: The Fed's historic turnabout, from enabling massive budget deficits to directing the sharpest rate hikes in 40 years, has seemingly broken the budget. Treasury market stress is almost certain to return.

The era of Fed quantitative easing and near-zero interest rates promoted carefree fiscal policies that led the U.S. to rack up $20 trillion in federal debt since the 2008 financial crisis.

Federal Reserve Fuels Red Ink
Exhibit A in the case of the broken federal budget is the deficit's surge in fiscal 2023, which ended Sept. 30. Unemployment was near a record low and GDP growth was strong. Under those conditions, the budget deficit usually shrinks. But it essentially doubled to $2 trillion, if you ignore accounting for Biden's student loan forgiveness that was struck down by the Supreme Court.

The Federal Reserve's fingerprints are all over the red ink. After the Fed sent more than $100 billion in interest on its bond portfolio to the Treasury in fiscal 2022, it had to halt those payments last year as bond prices fell. Having let inflation get out of the bag, an 8.7% cost-of-living adjustment stoked a $134 billion increase in Social Security checks.

Another roughly $100 billion went to FDIC bailouts, as banks like Silicon Valley Bank that loaded up on Treasuries when rates were ultralow became insolvent when Treasury yields surged. To top it off, the Fed hiking its key rate past 5% forced Uncle Sam to pony up an extra $177 billion in interest on the debt. That problem is destined to keep growing by leaps and bounds.

Debt Service Costs Skyrocket
With the Federal Reserve reversing its easy-money policies, the expense of servicing the national debt is exploding. Interest on the debt vaulted to $711 billion in fiscal 2023. That's up from $534 billion in 2022 and $413 billion in 2021. This month, debt service is running at an $825 billion rate. That's about what the U.S. spends on national defense.

US debt servicing costs chart

"The misjudged confidence that we had entered a brave new era of low interest rates is costing us dearly now — first through a period of high inflation and now through persistent pressure on a government budget that already has precious little room for maneuver," wrote Sonal Desai, chief investment officer at Franklin Templeton Fixed Income.

While a debt spiral isn't inevitable, almost no one thinks that Washington will act to avoid one. Fitch Ratings, in August's U.S. credit rating downgrade, bemoaned "a steady deterioration in standards of governance." When Moody's cut its U.S. rating outlook to negative this month, it warned of "rising political risk to the US' fiscal position and overall sovereign credit profile" as political polarization thwarts budget deficit reduction.

The catalyst for another bond-market rout — and possibly another U.S. credit-rating downgrade — could be the coming debate over the $3.3 trillion cost over 10 years to renew parts of the 2017 Trump tax cuts. Those cuts are due to expire at the end of 2025.

Bond Vigilantes
That tax debate won't get serious until after the 2024 election. But you can expect to hear plenty from "bond vigilantes" — a term coined by Wall Street strategist Ed Yardeni in the 1980s for the bond traders who made Washington pay for fiscal excess by driving up Treasury yields.

"At that point we can have renewed pressure on the bond market to the extent that nothing is being done to alleviate the reckless path the deficit is on," Yardeni, president of Yardeni Research, told IBD.

The "unsettling" thing, Yardeni said, is that "the bond vigilantes may be more powerful than ever because there's more debt than ever and it's compounding at a faster rate because of higher interest rates."

The Congressional Budget Office's latest projections show that under current law — meaning all of those 2017 tax cuts sunset on schedule — public debt as a share of the U.S. economy would rise from 98% to 119% by 2033. The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates that extending all of the tax cuts would raise that share by 10 percentage points. Under that scenario, the projected annual budget deficit in 2033 would exceed $3 trillion, or 8% of GDP. That's unheard of, except during war or in the wake of a recession.

No Plan To Rein In Budget Deficits
For reserve-currency countries like the U.S., for which default isn't a real risk, Moody's is less concerned about a high debt-to-GDP burden. Instead, it's focused on another metric reflecting its willingness to take action to curb escalating debt costs.

US budget gap chart

In 2022, the government spent 10 cents of every dollar in tax revenue on servicing the national debt. CBO projections show interest expense doubling to 20 cents on the dollar by 2033. But Moody's sees that as too optimistic. It sees 26 cents of each dollar in taxes going to debt service. Moody's says that would be the kind of fiscal stewardship consistent with a C-type credit rating.

America's unique strengths, including the central role of the dollar, solid productivity growth and technological leadership, afford Washington more leeway, Moody's says. But the lack of any plan to improve the fiscal outlook "is fundamentally different" from most "Aaa"-rated peers, such as Germany and Canada.

A credit-rating downgrade, if it comes to that, would signal that fiscal weakness will erode Treasuries' "preeminent safe-haven status."

Wall Street barely flinched after Moody's shot across the bow on Nov. 10 because the bond market had already flashed its own warning.

"The Bond Vigilantes may be saddling up," Yardeni wrote Aug. 3, heralding their return after a 16-year hiatus.

Federal Reserve QE Era
Bond vigilantes' long absence was marked by ultralow rates, low inflation and tepid demand ushered in by the 2008 financial crisis.

The Fed began its quantitative easing as an emergency market stabilization tool in late 2008. The central bank bought up government-backed mortgage securities to keep housing finance flowing. Yet with its key interest rate already at zero and the recovery unusually subdued, the Federal Reserve announced a second round of asset purchases — this time Treasuries — and then a third.

Joseph Gagnon, senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, argues that the Fed "really should have been even more aggressive," saying it took too long to achieve its full-employment mandate. The unemployment rate wouldn't fall to 5% until late 2015.

'Crazy' Not To Swell Budget Deficits
Yet QE, which held market interest rates low despite massive federal deficits, made a mockery of fiscal responsibility.

Conventional wisdom came to hold that "governments would be crazy not to deficit-spend more, since they could borrow pretty much for free," wrote Franklin Templeton's Desai. And for a while, it seemed to work.

Federal Reserve's 'Massive Mistake'
Even as public debt nearly tripled as a share of the U.S. economy from 2007 to 2021, net interest outlays actually dipped. That's because the average interest rate on debt held by the public fell from 4.7% of GDP to 1.4%.

US Treasury yields chart

Then came the Federal Reserve's "massive mistake," as Gagnon sees it, of keeping its pedal to the metal in 2021, despite gargantuan fiscal stimulus to speed Covid recovery. The biggest inflation outbreak in 40 years ensued, spurring rapid-fire Fed rate hikes to stem it. The interest rate hikes steadily lifted the Treasury's average borrowing rate to 2.3% by the end of 2022 and 3.1% as of October.

About $8 trillion worth of debt held by the public is set to mature over the next year. The Treasury will have to reissue that sum. The key question is at what interest rate.

Fed Rate Cuts Won't Be Enough
Following soft recent jobs and inflation data, markets expect the Federal Reserve to cut its key rate a full point in the coming year to 4.25%-4.5%. That would reduce the risk of a near-term fiscal derailment over runaway debt-service costs.

Yet it won't take sky-high rates to blow up the budget. Moody's projection of soaring debt-service costs assumes that the 10-year Treasury yield will settle back to around 4%. But the high stock of national debt is only about half the reason the budget deficit may hit 8% of GDP in a decade. The other half is a structural fiscal gap, with tax revenue insufficient to pay for the rising cost of Social Security and Medicare.

National defense, income-security and health care programs will continue to take up close to 100% of tax revenue, CBO 10-year projections show. That's even if most Trump tax cuts expire. Almost all the rest of federal spending will go on the government's credit card. That includes government salaries, veterans' health, border security, Pell Grants, National Institutes of Health research, infrastructure projects and more.

Fiscal Responsibility? Not Yet
Could fiscal responsibility make a comeback, now that the bond vigilantes have awakened? Not as long as big budget deficits are a realistic alternative to tax hikes on the right and spending cuts on the left. That will take significantly higher 10-year Treasury yields than we have today.

Consider this litany of reasons not to worry about the deficit from Dean Baker of the liberal Center for Economic and Policy Research. The inflation surge is fading. Addressing climate change will do a lot more for future generations than cutting the budget deficit while ignoring climate change. Japan has a far higher debt load than the U.S. and it's getting by OK. And artificial intelligence could ignite a productivity boom that spurs faster growth and makes our debt more manageable.

Treasury Yield Fire Alarm
The 10-year Treasury yield's surge to 5% in October — up 1.5 percentage points over three months — set off alarm bells that the scale of government debt issuance was overtaking the market's willingness to absorb it. That seemed to raise a risk of still-higher yields ahead.

News that Treasury will borrow less than expected in Q4 and further signs of easing inflation pressures have sent government bond yields tumbling over the past month. Yet it appears that the bond vigilantes are biding their time, rather than going back into hibernation.

Real Treasury Yields At Pre-2008 Levels
Confirmation of bond vigilantes' return came in September. That's when the yield on 10-year TIPS, or Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities, made a clear break above 2% for the first time since 2007. Though off its October high of 2.5%, the 10-year TIPS yield is holding at 2.20%. That's after spending most of the QE era below 1% — and below 0% for some of it.

The TIPS yield subtracts the inflation rate, making it synonymous with the real 10-year interest rate. The challenge the federal government will face in paying its bills is that real Treasury yields have largely reverted to pre-financial-crisis levels.

A number of factors help explain the reversion. Federal Reserve bond buying that squelched market signals has given way to reducing its assets. Baby boomers have gone from saving for retirement to living off their savings. Offshoring of production has turned to onshoring, with massive investment in chip manufacturing, electric vehicle supply chains, artificial intelligence and more. In general, funding has been scarcer relative to the demand for it.

What's unknown is where real interest rates will settle. Franklin Templeton's Desai thinks the neutral Fed policy rate — neither accommodative nor restrictive — may be at least 4%. That implies at least a 2% neutral real rate.

The term premium for holding bonds longer could add another 1 percentage point to the 10-year Treasury yield, putting it around 5%, she says.

If that's right, then the fiscal outlook is even worse than Moody's thinks.

'Choppier Seas' For U.S. Economy, S&P 500
What does all this mean for the U.S. economy, Fed policy and the S&P 500?

Jurrien Timmer, Fidelity's director of global macro strategy, envisions a scenario in which U.S. Treasury yields stretch, not to the breaking point, but enough to create "choppier seas" for the economy and financial markets.

Over the past several decades, the ongoing fall in interest rates and inflation, with little volatility, produced "elongated cycles, with a recession every 10 years, if that," Timmer told IBD.

The Federal Reserve could pivot quickly and pull out all the stops, if needed, without worrying too much that inflation would take off.

Federal Reserve May Not Ride To Rescue
But going forward, Timmer says, the Fed "might have to be much more muted in its reaction" to economic weakness. Higher rates might be quicker to choke off growth, leading to shorter expansions.

What if the 10-year Treasury yield shoots to 6%, threatening runaway interest costs and an economic slump, as bond vigilantes rebel?

In that case, Wall Street shouldn't necessarily expect the Fed to ride to the rescue with rate cuts, Gagnon says. That's especially true if massive and growing fiscal deficits prove inflationary, as he expects they will.

"The bottom line is inflation is going to be at 2% and the Fed is going to make sure that happens. It doesn't matter what interest rate Treasury has to pay," said Gagnon, who served in various Fed roles over two decades.

Even if the economic toll from a rise in Treasury yields sends inflation below 2%, the Federal Reserve might not be quick to roll out the heavy artillery. The Fed's modus operandi still treats QE as a last line of defense — after interest rates are cut to zero. In the new old normal, in which a 4% fed funds rate is neutral, that might take a while.

Fed End Game?
Still, some see that QE end game as inevitable, with the Federal Reserve essentially carrying some of the debt it enabled. "We will need QE in some form again, and in big size, in the future to control the rise in debt," Deutsche Bank strategist Jim Reid said.

Others think the Fed might eventually resort to yield curve control, dictating interest rates on the debt rather than influencing them with bond purchases. That's the approach it used to finance World War II, before the Fed got its independence in 1951. It's what the Bank of Japan uses today.

"The real acid test will only come if Treasury bond prices fail to rally on bearish economic data, such as a sudden collapse in payrolls or, for that matter, a stock market crash," wrote Jefferies strategist Christopher Wood. "This is the context where it becomes much more likely that Washington will end up resorting to Japanese-style yield curve control policies."
« Last Edit: November 27, 2023, 06:48:44 AM by DougMacG »