Author Topic: Sen.Ted Cruz  (Read 144479 times)

DougMacG

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #200 on: December 08, 2015, 08:26:50 PM »
They had a side by side comparison of the Reps tonight on Bret Baier with regard to the Middle East.  I confess to being surprised that apparently he only actions Cruz supports are bombing and arming the Kurds and that he opposes US boots leading an alliance.

Ted Cruz foreign policy  =  'Rand Paul-lite'  is meant as a description, not a pejorative.

Ted Cruz foreign policy also gets compared to Pres. Obama's foreign policy based on Cruz's intent to make no significant changes. 

One notable exception, Obama was to the hawk side of Cruz on metadata, for better or worse.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #201 on: December 08, 2015, 09:08:53 PM »
Hmmm , , , I had heard some more definitive statements from him on defeating instead of containing ISIS, but this  , , , gives me cognitive dissonance.  Will have to consider this.



ppulatie

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #203 on: December 10, 2015, 08:27:58 AM »
Love the WAPO showing the money donations.  JEB has spent $50 million plus in the last couple of months on ads, etc. And look at how much that money got him.

4% or less support in many polls.  Keep spending Jeb. Maybe you can match Mrs. Lindsay Graham's support.............0%

Cruz is the Iowa frontrunner?  Uhh, that was only one poll, and since then another poll came out with Trump as the front runner.

Why is WAPO pushing Cruz now?  His Tea Party connections will be easy for the Dems to demagogue. Add in his conservative positions, and he can be easily beat.
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ccp

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #204 on: December 10, 2015, 08:37:57 AM »
" JEB has spent $50 million plus in the last couple of months on ads, etc. And look at how much that money got him."

It is relishing to think these guys spent a huge fortune for nothing.  We shoved it right down their throats.  The darn media loves it though and I am no fan of those phonies.

DougMacG

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz finally says what he will do with illegals
« Reply #205 on: December 16, 2015, 12:17:42 PM »
Designate them as 3/5ths of a person?  Round'em up?

Cruz locks in on being the most conservative running with no chance of being President.

No legal status - for anyone.  Great.  Tough talk, but you have to win the Presidency and hold congress to implement any of it.  Also a flip flop on legal immigration, trying to keep up with his competitor.  His greatest strength was his consistency.

He was asked specifically what he would do with people already established here for 10-12 years of more.  Guess what, they met a couple of voters while they were here, neighbors, family, friends, coworkers.

If he causes Hillary to win, she is committed to going further in the other direction than Obama did.  How does that help illegal immigration - or the Supreme Court?

But let's race to the right as if we live in our own conservative cocoon...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/12/16/ted-cruz-opposes-legal-status-for-undocumented-immigrants/?ref=yfp


DougMacG

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ppulatie

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #207 on: December 16, 2015, 01:01:19 PM »
DMG,

You and I agree on this about Cruz and the Right. He can't win the election as it stands. His conservatism will be endlessly attacked and the Tea Party support will be a part of it.

Purity candidates will not win. The electorate has changed significantly and conservative purity is left behind. Today, people are willing to accept past divisive issues like gays and abortion. Just take me:

Don't care either way about abortion.
Gays - I don't care. Just don't shove it in my face any longer.
Balanced Budget - The government will never change. Just try and reduce the amount of growth.
Close Department like the EPA - Not going to happen. Just try to restrict the ability to make administrative law.

For me, Immigration, Terrorism, and a couple of other items are critical. The rest, you can't change everything at once. Just try stopping drinking, smoking, drugs and overeating all at once. Ain't gonna happen.

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Crafty_Dog

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #208 on: December 17, 2015, 07:20:44 AM »
Does Ted Cruz’s Slipperiness Matter?

There is an easy way to conclude Ted Cruz didn’t lie on the debate stage Tuesday night; conclude that he lied throughout the spring of 2013. The problem with posing as a bill supporter in an effort to insert a poison bill -- and performing the role with great passion, at great length, in front of many audiences -- is that afterwards, people may not be so convinced that it was all an act.

Professor Robert George: The disagreement is about whether they should be granted citizenship, through some mechanism, through some process, not whether they should be moved from illegal status to legal status?

Cruz: The amendment I introduced affected only citizenship; it did not affect the underlying legalization in the Gang of Eight bill.
George: Would your bill pass the House, or would it be killed because it was proposing ‘amnesty’?

Cruz: I believe that if my amendments were adopted, the bill would pass. My effort in introducing them was to find solution that reflected common ground and fixed the problem.”

Now, both then and now, Cruz is one notch to the restrictionist side of Marco Rubio. Rubio supported a Gang of Eight bill that included a path to citizenship; Cruz wanted a path to legalization. Now Rubio wants an eventual path to legalization; Cruz opposes it.

(One of the arguments against a path to legalization is that once it’s enacted, the goalposts will move; the Left will claim that the 11 million new legal permanent residents are second-class citizens and denied the rights of their “fellow Americans.” Legal status is just a technicality in their minds; Obama declared the DREAMers “are American by any other name except for their legal papers.” Cruz proved his point about the Democrats’ real priorities with his amendment. They see immigration reform as a way to find a big box of 11 million new voters under the Winter Solstice tree.)

But Rubio can fairly point out that Cruz ripping him over a path to legalization is like Obama ripping gay-marriage critics. You’re denouncing people for holding the same opinion you held just a few years ago.

Here’s Cruz, explaining himself to Fox News Channel’s Bret Baier last night:

BAIER: One of the big back-and-forth moments between you and Senator Marco Rubio was on immigration. Many people said you scored some points against Marco Rubio there. You also said though, and it has been checked today, at the debate, that you denied that you’ve ever supported legal status for undocumented immigrants. You said quote, I’ve never supported illegal immigration. But back in 2013 you did support an amendment and back when you were making the case, this is what you said.

(video)

CRUZ: I don’t want immigration reform to fail. I want immigration reform to pass. And so I would urge people of good faith on both sides of the aisle, if the objective is, to pass common-sense immigration reform, that secures the borders, that improves legal immigration and that allows those illegally to come in out of the shadows, then we should look for areas of bipartisan agreement and compromise to come together.

BAIER: Now that amendment would have allowed undocumented immigrants to remain in the U.S. permanently and obtain legal status. So how do you square that circle?

CRUZ: Actually, Brett, it wouldn’t have. What was happening there is that was the battle over the Gang of Eight, the Rubio/Schumer amnesty bill, which was a massive amnesty bill proposed by Senator Rubio, by Chuck Schumer and Barack Obama and I was leading the fight against amnesty. I was standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Jeff Sessions, I was standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Steve King. Leading the fight to secure the borders and what I did in that amendment was an amendment I introduced to remove citizenship to say those who are here illegally shall be permanently ineligible for citizenship. Now the fact that I introduced an amendment to remove part of the Gang of Eight bill doesn’t mean I support the rest of the Gang of Eight bills. The Gang of Eight bills was a mess. It was a terrible bill --

BAIER: That’s not what you said --

CRUZ: The Rubio campaign is trying to claim, ‘gosh --

BAIER: That’s not what you said at the time. Yahoo dug up these quotes, saying ‘if this amendment were to pass, the chance of this bill passing into law would increase dramatically.’ A few weeks later during a debate on the Senate floor Cruz repeated his belief that ‘this amendment is the compromise that can pass.’ And you repeated later in Princeton that ‘if my amendment were adopted, this bill would pass.’ It sounds like you wanted the bill to pass.

CRUZ: Of course, I wanted the bill to pass, my amendment to pass. What my amendment did-

BAIER: You said the bill.

CRUZ: What my amendment did is take citizenship off the table. What it doesn’t mean, what it doesn’t mean is that that I supported the other aspects of the bill, which was a terrible bill and Brett, you’ve been around Washington long enough, you know how to defeat bad legislation, which is what that amendment did, is it revealed the hypocrisy of Chuck Schumer and the Senate Democrats and the establishment Republicans who were supporting it because they all voted against it. And listen I’ll give you the simplest proof why this notion that my fighting amnesty, somehow made me a supporter of amnesty -- Jeff Sessions voted with me on my amendment to eliminate citizenship. Now is anyone remotely suggesting that Jeff Sessions support amnesty?

BAIER: Of course not. The problem, though, Senator--

CRUZ: We were fighting side by side to defeat Marco Rubio’s amnesty and we succeeded, we defeated it.

BAIER: The problem is at the time you were telling people like Byron York with the Washington Examiner that this was not a poison pill. You said ‘my objective is not to kill immigration reform.’ You said you wanted it to pass at the time. So my question to you is, looking back at what you said then and what oar saying now, which one should people believe?

CRUZ: What the amendments I introduced, I introduced five amendments, a whole series of amendments, what they did is they illustrated the hypocrisy of the Democrats. They showed it was a partisan effort and they succeeded in defeating the Rubio/Schumer amnesty bill.

Some are asking why make a big deal about Cruz’s slipperiness here; surely no one thinks he’s a closet amnesty supporter. Surely, Rubio offered a bigger and more consequential lie while defending the Gang of Eight bill in April 2013: “What I said throughout my campaign was that I was against a blanket amnesty. And I was, and this is not blanket amnesty,” (No, he didn’t add the ‘blanket’ qualifier at any point in his 2010 Senate campaign.)

It’s like “I didn’t have an involvement with Mannatech . . . It is absolutely absurd to say that I had any kind of a relationship with them,” or “I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down . . . It was on television. I saw it,” or touting “the power and value of the Constitution” while giving a “Liberty medal” to Hillary Clinton.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #209 on: December 17, 2015, 08:25:15 PM »
Worth remembering is the Cruz is the only candidate other than Trump that opposes TPP.

ppulatie

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #210 on: December 18, 2015, 07:45:11 AM »
And worth remembering that Cruz wife is:

1. Works for Goldman Sachs in real life.

2. Previously, she was an investment banker at JP Morgan Chase.

3. Work on the Dubya campaign in 2000.

4.  Served in the Dubya Admin as Economic Director for the Western Hemisphere on the National Security Council.

5.  Director at Treasury.

6.  Special Policy Assistant to Robert Zoellick, Chief US International Trade Negotiator. javascript:void(0)

7. Term member on Council for Foreign Relations.

8. Co-author of Building a North American Community, a paper for the CFR. 

http://www.cfr.org/canada/building-north-american-community/p8102   Can be downloaded here....

From the paper:

 
Quote
Our economic focus should be on the creation of a common economic space that expands economic opportunities for all people in
the region, a space in which trade, capital, and people flow freely.

The strategy needs to be integrated in its approach, recognizing the extent to which progress on each individual component enhances
achievement of the others. Progress on security, for example, will allow a more open border for the movement of goods and people;
progress on regulatory matters will reduce the need for active customs administrations and release resources to boost security. North
American solutions could ultimately serve as the basis for initiatives involving other like-minded countries, either in our hemisphere or more
broadly.

Read the above, and isn't that what is happening now? This is the EEU.

Do ya think that Cruz is against wifey on this?
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DougMacG

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #211 on: December 18, 2015, 08:33:41 AM »
Very interesting.  Yes, politicians are affected by the views of their spouses.

Most of that is fluff and idealistic.  The EEC was supported by a lot of good people.  Robert Mundell, who designed the path out of stagflation here set up the original framework for the euro and a lot of good came out of it.  Also the EEC was set up with the idea of copying the success of the free flow we have here with the 50 states.  Of course now we have Chicago murders in Minneapolis and Mexico City in LA.  Then there are these things that went wrong in Europe.  Is it racist or bigoted to notice that Muslim immigration and the failure of the new people to assimilate was a big part of their downfall.  Also the race to the bottom in work rules, welfare etc.  Those two phenomena are not unrelated, immigration and free cash and services just for existing.  People come for the goodies instead of coming to contribute.

A number of years back our 'thread manager' here gave me a hard time for putting a video of an Islamic riot in Sweden in the health care thread as we were considering national healthcare.  The connection that this is what happens when you do that was clear to me.

Trump and Rubio have wives who are mostly not in politics.  I don't know if Heidi Cruz is good or bad for his positions, candidacy or chances of winning.  I'm sure you see the CFR connection and others will obsess on the Goldman connection.  Hillary has a spouse problem too...

ppulatie

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #212 on: December 18, 2015, 09:16:16 AM »
I don't like the Goldman relationship in the least,  not to say the CFR relationship.  But if you look at the actual working paper, it spends excessive effort talking about free flow of labor across borders, lessened controls and other things. 

Hell no to that.
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Crafty_Dog

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My doubts about Cruz continue to grow
« Reply #213 on: December 18, 2015, 01:51:53 PM »
 By Bret Stephens
Dec. 14, 2015 7:09 p.m. ET
734 COMMENTS

Not everything in Ted Cruz’s foreign policy speech on Thursday at the Heritage Foundation was awful. There was enough intellectual heft in there to suggest that the senator from Texas is too smart to believe the ideological contrivances and strategic impostures by which he seeks to gain the GOP nomination.

The central foreign-policy challenge facing the next president is how to re-establish American credibility with friends who no longer trust us and enemies who no longer fear us. Mr. Cruz gets this, just as he gets that the purpose of U.S. foreign policy cannot be to redeem the world’s crippled societies through democracy-building exercises. Foreign policy is not in the business of making dreams come true—Arab-Israeli peace, Islamic liberalism, climate nirvana, a Russian reset, et cetera. It’s about keeping our nightmares at bay.

Today those nightmares are Russian revanchism, Iranian nuclearization, the rise and reach of Islamic State and China’s quest to muscle the U.S. out of East Asia. How to deal with them? Mr. Cruz has thoughts on these and other important matters, but first he wants you to know that he intends to finish the wall along the border with Mexico. And triple the border patrol. And quadruple the number of aircraft patrolling the border.

Why? Because “when terrorists can simply swim across the Rio Grande, we are daring them to make the journey.”

By now, illegal immigration is to the GOP what global warming is to the Democrats: the all-purpose bugaboo that is supposed to explain nearly every problem and whose redress must be part of every solution. But immigration policy is not foreign policy, much less a counterterrorism strategy. And there are probably larger pools of would-be jihadists in Montreal and Vancouver than in Monterrey or Veracruz. Shouldn’t Mr. Cruz call for a wall from Quebec to British Columbia?

Similarly depressing—because he surely knows better—are Mr. Cruz’s efforts to paint himself as a champion of civil liberties when it comes to his recent success in gutting the National Security Agency’s bulk telephony metadata collection program.

Mr. Cruz must feel politically vulnerable on this score, especially after the San Bernardino massacre and the sense that the pool of libertarian-leaning GOP voters is fast drying up. But he’s decided to double down on his objections to the (now lapsed) NSA program. “Hoarding tens of billion of records of ordinary citizens,” he said last week, “didn’t stop Fort Hood, it didn’t stop Boston, it didn’t stop Garland, and it failed to detect the San Bernardino plot.”

All true—nobody ever said intelligence is foolproof. But here’s another plot the NSA program failed to stop. “Telephony metadata,” wrote Judge William H. Pauley III of New York’s Southern District in a 2013 ruling affirming the constitutionality of the program, “would have furnished the missing information and might have permitted the NSA to notify the Federal Bureau of Investigation of the fact that [9/11 hijacker Khalid] al-Mihdhar was calling the Yemeni safe house from inside the United States.”

At this point, readers may sense that Mr. Cruz is closer to President Obama when it comes to fighting terrorism than he lets on. His views on metadata collection are identical to those of James Clapper, the incompetent and dishonest Director of National Intelligence whom Mr. Cruz cites approvingly in his speech. He excoriates the Obama administration for hollowing out the military but fails to note that he was one of just two Republican votes (the other was Rand Paul) against the latest National Defense Authorization Act, opposition he justifies on obscure civil-liberty grounds. He cites Libya as a case study in why not to intervene in a Middle Eastern civil war. But he may also have noted that his anti-interventionist instincts precisely track those of Mr. Obama, who was reluctantly dragged into a war he led from behind.

As for Syria, Mr. Cruz insists “we do not have a side in the Syrian civil war” and endorses Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s view that nonintervention allows two evil sides to exhaust themselves in the fighting. But this is indistinguishable from Mr. Obama’s hands-off approach to the conflict, notwithstanding the administration’s flaccid efforts to arm a credible opposition and bomb ISIS.

If your aim is to bomb ISIS until the “sand glows in the dark,” you are taking a side in the conflict. Mr. Cruz knows this. If you want to destroy ISIS without strengthening the Assad regime and its backers in Tehran, you have to target the regime, too. The truth about Syria isn’t that we have no dog in the fight. It’s that we’ve got to fight two dogs. The alternative is the endless chaos in which ISIS incubates and desperate refugees come knocking on our doors.

Again, Mr. Cruz knows this. Again, he’s too smart not to. Intelligence is never in question when it comes to the junior senator from Texas. Character is.

Write bstephens@wsj.com

Crafty_Dog

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Sen.Ted Cruz promo clip
« Reply #214 on: December 19, 2015, 08:15:14 AM »

Crafty_Dog

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Cruz cornered?
« Reply #215 on: December 19, 2015, 08:35:58 AM »
Second post:

One of the notions coming out of the most recent debate is that Cruz was "cornered" by Rubio into doubling down on his commitment to deport over 12 million illegals.

I caught Cruz last night being interviewed by Greta Van Sustern (God! What a moron!  Remarkable that Cruz could remain unflappable) and this is is construct.

1) Get a hold of true control of the border (walls, manpower, true intent, monitor visas for overstay, etc)
2) Enforce the Law

The choice of "Enforce the Law" I think to be pretty shrewd.  Cruz then cleverly pointed out that Clinton deported 12 million and Bush 10 million (yes, he is conflating actual deportations with turn backs at the border, but then that is what the Manchurian Mole has done for the past seven years) but that with the border a sieve they just came back in.  He goes on to discuss how all other countries e.g. Mexico, enforce their laws in this regard, why should not the US?

DougMacG

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Re: Cruz cornered?
« Reply #216 on: December 19, 2015, 10:05:08 AM »
"One of the notions coming out of the most recent debate is that Cruz was "cornered" by Rubio into doubling down on his commitment to deport over 12 million illegals."

Yes, he has doubled down with a stronger commitment to this than Trump which I think puts a new ceiling on his general election support.  Yes you can talk around it but the question will come up with specificity, what are you going to do with the 1 1 or 12 million, what ever number we are throwing around.  Rubio put it even clearer, what are you going to do with people who are productive, otherwise law abiding and have been here 10-12 years or more.  If his answer is anything other than round em up and send em back, he has just flipped again, making him at best a typical politician.

Trump has left himself a whole lot more wiggle room by saying all kinds of things he doesn't really mean anyway.  His general election stance will be to suddenly sound reasonable and compassionate after winning the nomination by pretending to take the hardest line.
-----------------------

Cruz had a funny line in the debate.  He was asked about Muslims being terrorists and he said his Grandfather told him that all horse thieves are Democrats but not all Democrats are horse thieves.
-----------------------

The Bret Stephens piece is important; thank you for posting it.  He is very critical of Cruz.  I find that Rubio has a far better mastery of foreign affairs than Cruz.  In principle I am more with the Cruz approach, crush threats and then get out, but in Syria and with ISIS it is more complicated than that.  We will need someone who can organize and lead a wide coalition on a complicated mission.  Easy answers aren't going to get us there.  Leaving our Middle East policy to Putin and Russia (Trump's plan) isn't going to solve it either. So my approach is somewhere between Rubio and Cruiz and Rubio is the best one to do it.  Rubio will eat Hilllary's lunch over Libya using his mastery of the facts and details about how it was done wrong.   Polenty to work with there even though he favored the mission in concept.   Hillary will be caught up in defending both her ideas and Obama's failed policies, always trying to make her split with them delicately without pissing off the Obama administration.  She can't win without the full support of the Obama get out the vote machine.  This isn't 1996.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 10:22:32 AM by DougMacG »

ccp

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #217 on: December 19, 2015, 11:09:50 AM »
Doug,

"Rubio is the best one to do it.  Rubio will eat Hilllary's lunch over Libya using his mastery of the facts and details about how it was done wrong."

Maybe, but most people don't care about Libya.   That is not going to win him a general election IMHO.

"She can't win without the full support of the Obama get out the vote machine."  

What makes you say that?

"I caught Cruz last night being interviewed by Greta Van Sustern (God! What a moron!"

I couldn't agree more.  Greta's shows are totally boring.  Who cares about some legal technicality of some unimportant trial etc.
Plus there is no doubt in my mind she is a flaming liberal who just keeps it toned down.  She will certainly vote for her fem fatale Hillary.

Additionally I am concluding that Rubio probably is the best all around candidate with his big flaws, particularly on immigration, noted.  But I can bear voting for him a GREAT DEAL more than Bush who I would have stayed home.   Rubio is establishment friendly which is a big problem but it is better than losing to Hillary.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 11:13:33 AM by ccp »

DougMacG

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #218 on: December 19, 2015, 12:22:42 PM »
"Maybe, but most people don't care about Libya.   That is not going to win him a general election IMHO."

   - Right.  My point is that Cruz and others see that as a Rubio's blunder, but it is not a weakness Hillary can attack.  He can point to plenty of differences.  SHe went in without congressional authorization and in the end, let it burn.

"She can't win without the full support of the Obama get out the vote machine."    What makes you say that?

   - Romney won 59% of the white vote in 2012 and whites were 72% of the electorate - and he lost it all in the other 28%.  There was something magical about the Obama turnout machine.  I have argued it was illegal and corrupt, but extremely effective nonetheless.  Suffice it to say, the incumbent administration and thuis the Obama machine knows where the government checks are sent.  She has to set up a normal amount of separation from him and he has to accept that.  But when she crosses the line about disrespecting his record or policies and pisses them off, they can leave her out to fight it on her own.  They also have plenty of dirt on each other. He could have her indicted with the snap of a fingers, plenty of evidence to support it.  Obviously they aren't headed that direction now but she knows not to mess with him.

 I said don't underestimate her but still she is an old, fat, corrupt, white lady whose husband was a popular (impeached) President back when they were the younger generation and Fleetwood Mac, Don't stop thinkin' about tomorrow, was a hip song.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 12:24:46 PM by DougMacG »

Crafty_Dog

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Jack Welsh on Cruz
« Reply #219 on: December 27, 2015, 10:35:39 AM »

DougMacG

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Re: Jack Welsh on Cruz
« Reply #220 on: December 27, 2015, 11:44:05 AM »
https://www.facebook.com/tedcruzpage/videos/10153763139162464/

Good defense of Cruz.  The questioner was more aware of the weaknesses than Welsch was.  Cruz would be the right person for President if the center of America is to the right of all the other elected politicians.  If not, he won't win and couldn't govern effectively if he did win I am afraid.  He acted in the Senate as Welsch says, doing what he said he would do, but is running a campaign aimed only at the people already as conservative as he is. 

On Rubio, he said, too slick and not deep.  I disagree.

Crafty_Dog

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DougMacG

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #222 on: December 30, 2015, 09:34:45 AM »
Interesting point of trivia that is difficult for his opponents to go after.  Ted Cruz has been in the Senate for 3 years and 11 months.  He had just completed the first half of his first term when he announced for President.

Yet Trump says Rubio rose too fast and thinks Cruz is a Washington politician. 

Crafty_Dog

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Nice try Donald, but Cruz is American
« Reply #223 on: January 06, 2016, 08:33:42 AM »
Classy, Donald, real classy , , , not.

    Trump: Hey, You Know Cruz Is a Canadian Ineligible for the Presidency, Right?

Donald Trump: Warm to Putin, tough on poutine.

Donald Trump said in an interview that rival Ted Cruz’s Canadian birthplace was a “very precarious” issue that could make the senator from Texas vulnerable if he became the Republican presidential nominee.

“Republicans are going to have to ask themselves the question: ‘Do we want a candidate who could be tied up in court for two years?’ That’d be a big problem,” Trump said when asked about the topic. “It’d be a very precarious one for Republicans because he’d be running and the courts may take a long time to make a decision. You don’t want to be running and have that kind of thing over your head.”

Trump added: “I’d hate to see something like that get in his way. But a lot of people are talking about it and I know that even some states are looking at it very strongly, the fact that he was born in Canada and he has had a double passport.”

Sure, Donald, sure. Ted Cruz is the Great Canadian Menace. After all those years of sitting above us, seeming so polite and hockey-obsessed, drinking their Molson’s and eating their Tim Horton’s doughnuts . . . the Canadians have been carrying out their elaborate ruse, lulling us into complacency while their sleeper agent gets into place. We’re on to their tricks! We know their bacon is just ordinary ham! Once President Cruz is in the Oval Office, they’ll take back the Washington Nationals, change Z to “Zed,” ban fourth down, blast Celine Dion from public loudspeakers, give us something to cry aboot! President Cruz will turn us into the “U.S. Eh”!

In case you’re wondering . . .

Most legal experts contend [a “natural born citizen”] means someone is a citizen from birth and doesn’t have to go through a naturalization process to become a citizen.

If that’s the definition, then Cruz is a natural born citizen by being born to an American mother and having her citizenship at birth. The Congressional Research Service, the agency tasked with providing authoritative research to all members of Congress, published a report after the 2008 election supporting the thinking that “natural born” citizenship means citizenship held “at birth.”


DougMacG

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Re: Nice try Donald, but Cruz is American
« Reply #224 on: January 06, 2016, 10:22:44 AM »
Stupid but not surprising, the birther issue was Trump's main case against Obama.  IIRC Obama's mom 'Stanley' (they wanted a boy) was born and raised in Kansas and perhaps never left the country.  The lack of records on Barack Obama was weird but the idea he wasn't a natural born citizen was absurd.  There were so many other obvious ways to attack him.  The election itself served as a referendum on that issue.  No judge, jury, or Supreme Court was going to overturn the 2008 election.  For Cruz, the key facts are identical.  His mother was born in Delaware, a US citizen.  Ted Cruz was an American citizen since birth making him a 'natural born citizen' by any accepted definition.  After 8 years of Obama, no court is going to rule that the next guy with the same facts is ineligible.
http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/03/23/394713013/is-ted-cruz-allowed-to-run-since-he-was-born-in-canada

What this attack says about Trump is troubling.

Real reasons to oppose Cruz: Either he is too conservative for you personally or he is too conservative to get elected nationally.  Other potential weaknesses include that he lacks the directly relevant executive experience that they all lack, or that he has only 3 years Washington experience, a case Trump can't and won't make.  Trump can't tell the base Cruz is too conservative, adheres too much to core conservative and founding principles.  It would only help Cruz and expose his own vulnerability.  Cruz has outsmarted Trump by not taking the bait and attacking back.

Cruz is burdened with high expectations in Iowa.  Either he wins decisively or he took the wrong strategy.  Winning in Iowa makes you as inevitable as Santorum, Bachmann, Huckabee, Pat Robertson and Tom Harkin.  The Iowa caucus means having to come out and listen to speeches on behalf of all the other candidates before you vote.  A very different experience attracting different people than a primary.  Cruz needs to meet expectations in Iowa and exceed his expectations in NH and SC.  If so then he comes into his strength in the south.  If not, someone else quickly becomes the story.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 10:33:18 AM by DougMacG »

ppulatie

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #225 on: January 06, 2016, 11:36:26 AM »
I haven't been commenting on posts because I am tired of going over the same old crap each time. But both of you have taken the Trump comments out of context so I must intervene. Here is what he was pointing out.

1. The Courts have never ruled on the question of what constitutes a natural born citizen and the Constitution is vague about it. In fact, courts have been loath to address this subject.

2. Grayson, the Florida Rep, has already indicated that

Quote
Speaking on Alan Colmes’ radio show last week, Democratic Rep. Alan Grayson let us in on his nefarious plan:

I’m waiting for the moment that he gets the nomination, and then I will file that beautiful lawsuit saying that he’s unqualified for the job because he’s …Call me crazy but I think the President of America should be an American,” he added.

3. There are already at least two lawsuits regarding this in the State Courts right now, Florida and either Vermont or New Hampshire. The allegation is that Cruz and Rubio are not natural born, so they cannot be on the state ballots.

4. If you read comments on the different websites, there are huge numbers of people who state that they will not vote for either because they are not eligible to run for president.

Each of you argue that the Dems will use anything possible to attack Trump if he is the nominee. Why do you not think that the Dems would use eligibility to attack either Rubio or Cruz?  Of course they will..........as Grayson proves.  (Who cares if he is a nutter? Who needs the distraction?)

It is better to get this out in the open and resolved now, instead of waiting for the General Election for it to come up. 

BTW, from my own reading, I believe that they are eligible. But I also understand how it could be used against them if not countered now. Look at what was done with Obama.

Also, since I am at it, each of you have also stated that the polls are showing that Rubio can beat Hillary but not Trump. Yet you also challenge those same polls by saying when it comes to Trump beating the other GOP candidates, they mean nothing until the primaries have run their course.

You can't have it both ways!  Provide reasons for believing that they are correct in one case, but not the other, especially when Trump is showing such a huge lead in the different states and in the national polls.  (At least I do try and postulate why Rubio might be matching up better against Hillary than Trump.)

nuff said...

PPulatie

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #226 on: January 06, 2016, 12:00:13 PM »
No need to be so contentious with us Pat.

"I haven't been commenting on posts because I am tired of going over the same old crap each time."

No, that Trump brings it up is new.

"But both of you have taken the Trump comments out of context so I must intervene."

WE have not taken anything out of context.  We have quoted sources that in your opinion do so.   

", , ,  It is better to get this out in the open and resolved now, instead of waiting for the General Election for it to come up."

It was tried with McCain, who was born in Panama, not really a question here as far as I can tell , , ,

"BTW, from my own reading, I believe that they are eligible. But I also understand how it could be used against them if not countered now. Look at what was done with Obama."

Which was Obama's doing because of his extreme secretiveness about his past , , ,

"Also, since I am at it, each of you have also stated that the polls are showing that Rubio can beat Hillary but not Trump. Yet you also challenge those same polls by saying when it comes to Trump beating the other GOP candidates, they mean nothing until the primaries have run their course."

I'm not aware of having said that polls showing Trump in the lead in the primaries mean nothing.   The closest I have come to that is when I said that ON LINE polls, which are frequently the result of one candidate's operatives spreading the word to their people to go to the URL in question and vote early and often are not worthy of serious consideration.  Please don't , , , ahem , , , take things out of context.


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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz wouldn't speak on deportations in August 2015
« Reply #227 on: January 07, 2016, 07:02:34 AM »
Isn't this the same policy right now as Rubio?  Secure the border first.  Address the Visa overstays, that's where 40% of the illegals come from.  Implement e-verify, etc.  Act first in the areas where we can find common agreement. 

Cruz like most could not look straight into the camera and tell the general election public that an otherwise law abiding family with two American citizen children will be sent 'back' to where two of them have never lived before, or be faced with having our federal government break up their family.

If you act first on the other areas, secure the border etc., then these kids will be in high school or adults.  Are you going to send them back later if not sooner?  No.

My understanding is that since then, in competition with Trump, Cruz now says send them all back.  What changed, the immigration issue or his poll standing?

Pretending this issue is simple isn't the answer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVCiF10SFdk

(BTW, If I'm elected, I will ask Megyn Kelly to be my press secretary.)

DougMacG

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz, Rubio v Cruz on foreign policy continued
« Reply #228 on: January 08, 2016, 07:17:41 AM »
First, it was odd that Cruz canceled an appearance on the Hugh Hewitt show yesterday without explanation.  Rare for a presidential candidate to make that commitment and then break it.  The eligibility question has hit him and it shouldn't have. (?)
----------------------------------

Comments from Roger I. Zakheim is a visiting fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. He was deputy staff director and general counsel for the House Armed Services Committee from 2011 to 2013.
 http://www.nationalreview.com/article/429430/cruz-rubio-and-national-security

A rejoinder to Ramesh Ponnuru.

Ramesh Ponnuru claims on Bloomberg View that Marco Rubio is trying to “turn Ted Cruz into Rand Paul,” and that attempts to label Cruz as weak on national security won’t work. I disagree. Ponnuru admits that his friendship with Senator Cruz could cloud his judgment, so I’ll state at the outset that I am biased too, inasmuch as I support Senator Rubio’s candidacy. Setting aside for the moment whether this line of argument will resonate politically, there are at least three issues on which Senator Cruz clearly “stands with Rand.” Each of these raises serious questions about Senator Cruz’s true national-security views and his viability as a candidate for Commander-in-Chief.

The first instance was when Senator Cruz entered the Senate chamber to literally “stand with Rand.” Many will recall Senator Paul’s filibuster, in which he stirred up a frenzy over the possible targeting of U.S. citizens in the United States by U.S. military drones. In a bizarre attempt to suggest that a U.S. citizen sitting in a Starbucks café is at risk from the threat of U.S. Hellfire missiles, the senator from Kentucky held up Senate business until the attorney general certified that the president does not have the authority “to use a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on American soil.” What a revelation!

Instead of focusing the Senate on the threat posed by radical jihadists, Senator Cruz chose not only to stand with Rand, but to join him in attempting to stir up libertarian passions and create a false choice between liberty and security. This may have been good politics and a great way to increase his Twitter followers (Senator Cruz, in fact, spent part of his time on the Senate floor reading tweets praising Senator Paul), but it certainly wasn’t the conduct of a credible would-be Commander-in-Chief.

A second example where Senator Cruz aligned with Senator Paul is on the defense budget. At a time when sequestration’s $1 trillion of defense cuts hung over the military — a moment when even President Obama was unwilling to impose additional cuts on the military — Senator Cruz supported Senator Paul’s budget proposal intended to “reduce the size and scope of the military complex, including its global footprint.” In its tone and many of its policy components, this certainly appeared to be an isolationist budget.

Moreover, the proposal was anything but mainstream among Republicans. Paul Ryan’s budget, for example, provided $400 billion more for defense than the Paul/Cruz budget. While Senator Cruz earlier in the year supported Senator Rubio’s budget proposal to rebuild the military (at a time when ISIS and national security were top issues in the minds of voters), it’s significant that Cruz failed to stand with the military at a pivotal moment when our leaders were trying to prevent our national security from being put at risk. Again, even if one were to set aside the charge that his record reflects an isolationist philosophy, it’s clear that Senator Cruz was not on the side of policies tailored to rebuild American strength.

The last example is Senator Cruz’s voting record on the defense-policy bill, known as the National Defense Authorization Act. Although this bill has enjoyed bipartisan support in Congress every year for over 50 years, Senator Cruz has opposed its passage each of his three years in the Senate. This is legislation that authorizes pay increases for our troops, invests in their training and equipment, and cares for their families. The Heritage Foundation called last year’s NDAA “one of the biggest defense reform bills in decades.” But Ted Cruz voted no. And he has done so amid drastic defense cuts, when our military needed Congress’s support the most. As John McCain, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, has said of Cruz’s opposition to the NDAA, “I view that as a slap in the face to the men and women who are serving.”

Senator Cruz says he has voted against the NDAA because he sees a legal ambiguity that would allow a president to indefinitely detain American citizens and deprive them of their rights (as alleged in the Rand Paul filibuster). The Wall Street Journal labeled this “paranoia” and “woefully uninformed.” Once again, Senator Cruz’s record places him adrift from the national-security arm of the party. If we are to judge candidates by their actions, it’s fair to question whether Senator Cruz is truly the hawk on national security he claims to be.

So if we are to judge candidates by their actions, it’s fair to question whether Senator Cruz is truly the hawk on national security he claims to be. In fact, neither in the Senate nor on the presidential-campaign trail has Senator Cruz put forward a serious program that would promote American strength and rebuild our military. Ramesh Ponnuru seems to believe that Cruz won’t let any daylight “come between him and conservative Republican primary voters” and that the effort to portray him as weak on national security is doomed to fail. That remains to be seen. But here’s what we do know: At the moment, no issue is more important to Republican primary voters than national security, and Marco Rubio is running his campaign on a national-security message. The latest poll out of New Hampshire suggests his message is resonating with voters.

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #229 on: January 08, 2016, 10:41:23 AM »

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #231 on: January 08, 2016, 12:04:06 PM »
BD: 

That looks to be a really excellent article on TC's eligibility AND it's really long :-D  Would you be so kind as to give us a summary?

DougMacG

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #232 on: January 08, 2016, 01:30:37 PM »
BD: 
That looks to be a really excellent article on TC's eligibility AND it's really long :-D  Would you be so kind as to give us a summary?
What I found in a glance:  "Sen. Cruz is not eligible to be president"  ...  but could be made so if province of Alberta were "to secede from Canada and be admitted as a state of the U.S. before the term of presidency would begin [and] for the duration of the term in office."

I am okay with that.  We could trade them NY or CA.

This looks like an opinion piece written by someone opposing Pres. Obama's eligibility, although I thought constitution.org is a definitive site.  I wonder what BD's personal/professional judgement of the Cruz question is...

The author(s) here make a complete distinction between citizen when born and natural born.  I don't believe the constitution does.

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ccp

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #234 on: January 10, 2016, 02:16:39 PM »
This is to my knowledge the first time anyone except for Trump did not back down to the leftist pulling at the heart strings shame game.

His answer could include also that hundreds of thousands go through a legal process which exists to have people apply and gain citizenship in our country.


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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz to DACA girl: "Yes I would deport you"
« Reply #236 on: January 10, 2016, 02:48:58 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdK7a8EuUPc

Fcuking awesome!

1.  He did a great job of explaining it, something the big tough bully frontrunner has never done.

2.  Is this policy position electable?  (How is Pete Wilson's party doing in California?)

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz to DACA girl: "Yes I would deport you"
« Reply #237 on: January 10, 2016, 02:51:08 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdK7a8EuUPc

Fcuking awesome!

1.  He did a great job of explaining it, something the big tough bully frontrunner has never done.

2.  Is this policy position electable?  (How is Pete Wilson's party doing in California?)

2. How is California doing these days?

DougMacG

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #238 on: January 10, 2016, 03:09:20 PM »
A no-win situation.


If Cruz is the nominee, I won't have to hold my nose to vote.  But I will have to hold my breath for the results.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 03:24:03 PM by DougMacG »

ccp

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #239 on: January 11, 2016, 04:36:56 PM »
Apart from Mark Levin's yelling and hollering this makes sense to me:

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/01/11/2746384/

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #240 on: January 11, 2016, 04:52:05 PM »
But wouldn't the Equal Rights Amendment include Jus Sanguinis in its purview?

ccp

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #241 on: January 12, 2016, 09:29:16 AM »
Jus sanguinis

I just looked this up.  This is the right to citizenship by since one or both parents are citizens.

But the professor quoted in the article states this was not (at least in his opinion) the 'intent' of the founders.

Except through the father's side (which sort of makes sense in the 18th century when women did not have the right to vote) but not the father's side.
If his interpretation is correct than Cruz would not be a natural born citizen with regard to the original intent of the writers of the Constitution.

I don't know if the amendments specifically address this.

I haven't heard Levin's take on this interpretation.   As much as I like him he does sound a bit hypocritical on this.   Our side should not be blindly hypocritical.

If valid questions can be brought up about McCains or Obamas or anchor babies citizen status than the same goes for "our" guys.

DDF

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #242 on: January 12, 2016, 09:40:15 AM »
Obama is Kenyan and Muslim.

People still don't care. They've come right out and admitted it, "America needed a Black president, and if he isn't American, I don't care."

Who gives a da.m.n at this point? If he wasn't American, congress wouldn't do squat unless it served their wallets, which brings up an interesting point.

American politics are wholly unnaccountable for anything (look at Hilary, Obama, Holder....add another 100 names here), and who gets punished? Not a f ing one of them. Obama smoking weed, Bush jr doing coke.... and they're for sale, and half of the US could care less....because "they need a Black president," and "let's congratulate North Korea on getting hydro-nuclear weapons."

This country is f.ed.....but hey....you can grow your own pot.

That tree needs to be watered, and the more it does, the more I want to see Babylon fall.

No one, of any walk of life, is anything, without principles and values.

DougMacG

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #243 on: January 12, 2016, 09:54:28 AM »
ccp,  It seems to me that a natural born citizen is a person who doesn't have to go through some process other than being born to become a citizen.

The idea that both parents need to be American is interesting but not written in the constitution nor did it become the law of the land later that I know of.  The constitution is a document written in plain English for all to understand, not just Supreme Court Justices.  The idea that a candidate could have an American mother and a foreign father and still be President was 'adjudicated' by the American people in 2008 and 2012.  There were plenty of challenges to that and it went nowhere in the courts.  The idea that an American mother cannot travel outside the US while pregnant because of risk of losing citizenship for her newborn is not the case anyone is arguing. On the flip side, the idea that these foreign travel babies with no citizenship claim other than being born here is absurd and not what the 14th amendment says or means.  Where does it say that birth location divides a family?

OTOH, the master of controlling the news cycle has everyone talking about this instead of everything we should be addressing at this critical juncture.  Like playing with a lead in football, sit on the ball and run the clock out.

DDF

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #244 on: January 12, 2016, 10:23:20 AM »
 The idea that a candidate could have an American mother and a foreign father and still be President was 'adjudicated' by the American people in 2008 and 2012.  

No it wasn't.

The last I checked, he barely eeked in and there was plenty of noise about his parents. It might be ok by you, but certainly not to a large portion of the US.

The country needs to be segregated.

DougMacG

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #245 on: January 12, 2016, 10:49:14 AM »
Obama as President was NOT okay by me - for reasons of his ideology.

Proposing to break up the country is another way to keep losing elections, though fun to ponder on a forum. 

Our ideas are better.  Why don't we try persuading people of that?  Their ideas result in failure and that has never been easier to prove.

Who communicates our ideas best, to the widest audience?

DDF

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #246 on: January 12, 2016, 12:08:28 PM »
Obama as President was NOT okay by me - for reasons of his ideology.

Proposing to break up the country is another way to keep losing elections, though fun to ponder on a forum. 

Our ideas are better.  Why don't we try persuading people of that?  Their ideas result in failure and that has never been easier to prove.

Who communicates our ideas best, to the widest audience?

I almost agree, with the exception that I'm serious about breaking the country up into zones, because.... other than fear of iminent death, there is no persuading the laziness, sense of entitlement, or hatred out of someone....at least that I've ever seen.

I'm confident that a US, led not so much by states, but by zones, liberal, conservative, and one where anything goes, is by far the best way to go.

I agree with a wide swath of what I see here, other than the fact that some think I shouldn't be armed....which I will never bow to....so....I'm liking the anything goes zone and I'll put out my own fires, and forego the speeding tickets and background checks. Others, may live as they please.

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http://harvardlawreview.org/2015/03/on-the-meaning-of-natural-born-citizen/

Here is the flavor of it-- seems pretty strong to me:

We have both had the privilege of heading the Office of the Solicitor General during different administrations. We may have different ideas about the ideal candidate in the next presidential election, but we agree on one important principle: voters should be able to choose from all constitutionally eligible candidates, free from spurious arguments that a U.S. citizen at birth is somehow not constitutionally eligible to serve as President simply because he was delivered at a hospital abroad.

The Constitution directly addresses the minimum qualifications necessary to serve as President. In addition to requiring thirty-five years of age and fourteen years of residency, the Constitution limits the presidency to “a natural born Citizen.”
1. U.S. Const. art. II, § 1, cl. 5.
All the sources routinely used to interpret the Constitution confirm that the phrase “natural born Citizen” has a specific meaning: namely, someone who was a U.S. citizen at birth with no need to go through a naturalization proceeding at some later time. And Congress has made equally clear from the time of the framing of the Constitution to the current day that, subject to certain residency requirements on the parents, someone born to a U.S. citizen parent generally becomes a U.S. citizen without regard to whether the birth takes place in Canada, the Canal Zone, or the continental United States.
2. See, e.g., 8 U.S.C. § 1401(g) (2012); Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, Pub. L. No. 82-414, § 303, 66 Stat. 163, 236–37; Act of May 24, 1934, Pub. L. No. 73-250, 48 Stat. 797.

While some constitutional issues are truly difficult, with framing-era sources either nonexistent or contradictory, here, the relevant materials clearly indicate that a “natural born Citizen” means a citizen from birth with no need to go through naturalization proceedings. The Supreme Court has long recognized that two particularly useful sources in understanding constitutional terms are British common law
3. See Smith v. Alabama, 124 U.S. 465, 478 (1888).
and enactments of the First Congress.

4. See Wisconsin v. Pelican Ins. Co., 127 U.S. 265, 297 (1888).
Both confirm that the original meaning of the phrase “natural born Citizen” includes persons born abroad who are citizens from birth based on the citizenship of a parent.

As to the British practice, laws in force in the 1700s recognized that children born outside of the British Empire to subjects of the Crown were subjects themselves and explicitly used “natural born” to encompass such children.
5. See United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 655–72 (1898).
These statutes provided that children born abroad to subjects of the British Empire were “natural-born Subjects . . . to all Intents, Constructions, and Purposes whatsoever.”
6. 7 Ann., c. 5, § 3 (1708); see also British Nationality Act, 1730, 4 Geo. 2, c. 21.
The Framers, of course, would have been intimately familiar with these statutes and the way they used terms like “natural born,” since the statutes were binding law in the colonies before the Revolutionary War. They were also well documented in Blackstone’s Commentaries,

7. See 1 William Blackstone, Commentaries *354–63.
a text widely circulated and read by the Framers and routinely invoked in interpreting the Constitution.

No doubt informed by this longstanding tradition, just three years after the drafting of the Constitution, the First Congress established that children born abroad to U.S. citizens were U.S. citizens at birth, and explicitly recognized that such children were “natural born Citizens.” The Naturalization Act of 1790
8. Ch. 3, 1 Stat. 103 (repealed 1795).
provided that “the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States . . . .”
9. Id. at 104 (emphasis omitted).
The actions and understandings of the First Congress are particularly persuasive because so many of the Framers of the Constitution were also members of the First Congress. That is particularly true in this instance, as eight of the eleven members of the committee that proposed the natural born eligibility requirement to the Convention served in the First Congress and none objected to a definition of “natural born Citizen” that included persons born abroad to citizen parents.
10. See Christina S. Lohman, Presidential Eligibility: The Meaning of the Natural-Born Citizen Clause, 36 Gonz. L. Rev. 349, 371 (2000/01).

The proviso in the Naturalization Act of 1790 underscores that while the concept of “natural born Citizen” has remained constant and plainly includes someone who is a citizen from birth by descent without the need to undergo naturalization proceedings, the details of which individuals born abroad to a citizen parent qualify as citizens from birth have changed. The pre-Revolution British statutes sometimes focused on paternity such that only children of citizen fathers were granted citizenship at birth.

11. See, e.g., British Nationality Act, 1730, 4 Geo. 2, c. 21.
The Naturalization Act of 1790 expanded the class of citizens at birth to include children born abroad of citizen mothers as long as the father had at least been resident in the United States at some point. But Congress eliminated that differential treatment of citizen mothers and fathers before any of the potential candidates in the current presidential election were born. Thus, in the relevant time period, and subject to certain residency requirements, children born abroad of a citizen parent were citizens from the moment of birth, and thus are “natural born Citizens.”

The original meaning of “natural born Citizen” also comports with what we know of the Framers’ purpose in including this language in the Constitution. The phrase first appeared in the draft Constitution shortly after George Washington received a letter from John Jay, the future first Chief Justice of the United States, suggesting:

[W]hether it would not be wise & seasonable to provide a . . . strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Command in chief of the american [sic] army shall not be given to, nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen.

12. Letter from John Jay to George Washington (July 25, 1787), in 3 The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787, at 61 (Max Farrand ed., 1911).

As recounted by Justice Joseph Story in his famous Commentaries on the Constitution, the purpose of the natural born Citizen clause was thus to “cut[] off all chances for ambitious foreigners, who might otherwise be intriguing for the office; and interpose[] a barrier against those corrupt interferences of foreign governments in executive elections.”
13. 3 Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States § 1473, at 333 (1833).
The Framers did not fear such machinations from those who were U.S. citizens from birth just because of the happenstance of a foreign birthplace. Indeed, John Jay’s own children were born abroad while he served on diplomatic assignments, and it would be absurd to conclude that Jay proposed to exclude his own children, as foreigners of dubious loyalty, from presidential eligibility.

This is the post held by these two men:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solicitor_General_of_the_United_States
This is what the VP would call a "BFD".
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 08:48:22 AM by Crafty_Dog »

ccp

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Doug question
« Reply #248 on: January 13, 2016, 10:35:10 AM »
Question for Doug (or anyone)

What is your take on a Rubio Cruz or Cruz Rubio ticket?

Is that tenable?

DougMacG

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Re: Sen.Ted Cruz
« Reply #249 on: January 13, 2016, 11:12:38 AM »
Question for Doug (or anyone)

What is your take on a Rubio Cruz or Cruz Rubio ticket?

Is that tenable?

You wouldn't know it by hearing them but they are too much alike in terms of strengths and weaknesses to pick each other.

Ben Carson might be an idea for either of them, make other demographic groups take notice.  More likely they pick a woman.  I think that is why Nikki Haley is being auditioned, also other moderates like Kelly Ayotte, but they need her seat in the NH Senate.  Also Carly Fiorina for either one of them.

Rubio doesn't need Cruz to carry Texas or any red state assuming he consolidates the support of all these conservatives.

Rubio might have been the VP pick if one of the governors was the nominee.  I think he turned Romney down.  Now the Govs are down to Christy who is not a very good match with Rubio.  Christy also could pick a woman.

Maybe Trump picks Cruz, otherwise any conservative nominee should appoint Cruz to the Court.

I wonder who Cruz's runningmate should be.  I do not yet see Cruz as a general election candidate.  Maybe pick Kasich for his experience and grounding and influence in one key state.  For the most part they should be using this 17 person contest for the vetting that is already done.

Hillary allegedly picks Castro from Houston. (?)   I think Bernie should pick Joe Biden.  8 years experience.