Author Topic: Dr. Ben Carson  (Read 91794 times)

ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #200 on: November 06, 2015, 05:19:47 PM »
With Carson supporting TPP, those who bail, where does their support go?

Trump?

Cruz?

Won't be Rubio because he is for TPP.
PPulatie

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #201 on: November 06, 2015, 06:16:58 PM »
To be fair, we don't know yet what is in TPP, though given who negotiated it, it is likely to suck.

G M

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 26643
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #202 on: November 06, 2015, 08:57:52 PM »
I too have some deep concerns about some of his positions , , ,

That said, it would appear the attack dogs of the Pravdas are out in force: 

http://www.dailywire.com/news/960/no-ben-carson-didnt-lie-about-west-point-its-ben-shapiro#.Vj0EcYh6d6B.facebook

Hey, it appears that the MSM can vet a black candidate.

Just as long as there is an R next to his name....

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile

DougMacG

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19316
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #204 on: November 06, 2015, 10:35:45 PM »
pp today:  "Why the hell does a Free Trade Agreement need 5500 pages? One page would do....."

Doug, May, 2007:  "If I recall correctly, NAFTA as a printed document was a foot thick.  If I wrote a free trade agreement it would fit on a cocktail napkin."
http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=1284.msg11255#msg11255

Good to see us getting back on the same page.    :wink:

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile
WSJ: Dr. Ben's past faces deeper questions
« Reply #205 on: November 08, 2015, 08:10:53 AM »
Ben Carson’s Past Faces Deeper Questions
In harsh light of presidential politics, parts of his inspirational biography are questioned
Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson spoke to The Wall Street Journal about protecting white students from harm in his high school a day after Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was killed in 1968. Photo: AP/David Zalubowski
By Reid J. Epstein
Nov. 6, 2015 9:04 p.m. ET
2862 COMMENTS

The day after Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was killed in 1968, Ben Carson’s black classmates unleashed their anger and grief on white students who were a minority at Detroit’s Southwestern High.

Mr. Carson, then a junior with a key to a biology lab where he worked part time, told The Wall Street Journal last month that he protected a few white students from the attacks by hiding them there.

It is a dramatic account of courage and kindness, and it couldn’t be confirmed in interviews with a half-dozen of Mr. Carson’s classmates and his high school physics teacher. The students all remembered the riot. None recalled hearing about white students hiding in the biology lab, and Mr. Carson couldn’t remember any names of those he sheltered.

“It may have happened, but I didn’t see it myself or hear about it,” said Gregory Vartanian, a white classmate of Mr. Carson’s who served in the ROTC with Mr. Carson and is now a retired U.S. Marshal.

Mr. Carson’s biography, a rise from poverty to become a top neurosurgeon at Johns Hopkins University, is central to his candidacy for the Republican presidential nomination. Now, his story—told in nine books and countless inspirational speeches over the past 25 years—has come under the harsh scrutiny of presidential politics, where rivals and media hunt for embellishments and omissions that can hobble a campaign.

In 2008, Democratic Party candidate Hillary Clinton said she was mistaken when she claimed she and her daughter, Chelsea, had come under sniper fire and had to run for cover during a trip to Bosnia in 1996 while she was first lady. A video of the trip unearthed after her comments showed no gunfire.

The threat to the Carson candidacy is that the inconsistencies or hard-to-check anecdotes, which were told long before he ever considered a presidential run, will put off voters only now getting to know him.

Mr. Carson’s campaign manager, Barry Bennett, said Friday there was “no evidence” that any aspect of Mr. Carson’s biography wasn’t true. “There’s no facts saying they are not true. We are guilty until proven innocent,” he said. “You have no reason to believe that they are not true. There’s no evidence to point to the fact that they are even questionable.”

In his 1990 autobiography, “Gifted Hands,” Mr. Carson writes of a Yale psychology professor who told Mr. Carson, then a junior, and the other students in the class—identified by Mr. Carson as Perceptions 301—that their final exam papers had “inadvertently burned,” requiring all 150 students to retake it. The new exam, Mr. Carson recalled in the book, was much tougher. All the students but Mr. Carson walked out.

“The professor came toward me. With her was a photographer for the Yale Daily News who paused and snapped my picture,” Mr. Carson wrote. “ ‘A hoax,’ the teacher said. ‘We wanted to see who was the most honest student in the class.’ ” Mr. Carson wrote that the professor handed him a $10 bill.

No photo identifying Mr. Carson as a student ever ran, according to the Yale Daily News archives, and no stories from that era mention a class called Perceptions 301. Yale Librarian Claryn Spies said Friday there was no psychology course by that name or class number during any of Mr. Carson’s years at Yale.

In books and speeches, Mr. Carson has said he hated living in poverty, vowed to grow rich, and lashed out in anger at others until a religious transformation at age 14.

When CNN sent reporters to his former neighborhood in Detroit to verify Mr. Carson’s stories of violence, including attempting to stab a boy in the stomach, none who knew Mr. Carson as a youth recalled any such trouble. Instead, most of Mr. Carson’s former friends and neighbors remember him much as he is today: soft-spoken and studious.

In his 1996 book, “Think Big: Unleashing Your Potential for Excellence,” Mr. Carson identified the boy as a friend named “Bob.” Mr. Carson told Fox News on Thursday the boy was actually a “close relative.” Mr. Carson said, “I’ve never used the true names of people in books.”

Also disputed in a report Friday by Politico: Mr. Carson’s assertion, first raised in the 1990 book, that he turned down a “scholarship” offer from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point—though the academy is free to those accepted. Mr. Bennett said Friday that Mr. Carson was offered a “nomination” to West Point but never applied.

“Lying, I believe, is a grave sin and there’s just no way that I would be sitting here lying about something like this,” Mr. Carson said Friday on Fox News.

Last month, Mr. Carson said in a radio interview that, as a young doctor, he had a gun stuck in his ribs at a Popeye’s restaurant in Baltimore near Johns Hopkins University. “A guy comes in and puts a gun in my ribs. And I just said, ‘I believe that you want the guy behind the counter,’” Mr. Carson said. “He said, ‘Oh, okay.’” The Baltimore Police Department later said it couldn’t find a report matching the incident Mr. Carson described.

In response to a question at a recent GOP presidential debate, Mr. Carson said he “didn’t have an involvement” with Mannatech Inc., a multilevel marketing company that sells nutritional supplements, and called any suggestion to the contrary “propaganda.” Mr. Carson, who has taken the company’s products, appeared in videos that could until recently be found on Mannatech’s website, including two filmed in 2013 and styled like commercials.

Mr. Carson also has given four paid speeches at Mannatech gatherings; the proceeds from three went to a Carson-affiliated charity. Mannatech settled false-advertising charges with Texas in 2009.

One reason that Mr. Carson’s stories are difficult to check is that he navigated the turbulent times of his young adulthood without leaving much of a trace. He arrived as a scholarship student at Yale University in 1969 to a campus engulfed in protests but said he avoided them.

“A lot of those students who were doing the protesting were also students who were involved in a lot of things that I didn’t believe in,” he told the Journal. “Drugs, premarital sex, free love, alcohol. And it just wasn’t the crowd that I particularly wanted to get involved with.”

Mr. Carson was assigned to Davenport College, a four-story brick dormitory with a gothic facade where future Baltimore Mayor Kurt Schmoke invited anti-war speakers. Yet, when other students discussed politics and their changing world over meals in the cafeteria, Mr. Carson rarely spoke up, according to interviews with more than 50 Davenport College dorm residents of that era.

“He made no impression on you at all, other than a cheerful smile and a ‘Hello,’” said Ron Taylor, one of seven black students in the Davenport class of 1973.

Those acquainted with Mr. Carson said he was a serious student, typically wearing a pocket protector and toting a reddish-brown briefcase.

“He would go to bed at like 9 p.m. and get up at 4 a.m. or 5 a.m. and put on a suit, a tie and a jacket and a button-down shirt and study in the early morning,” said Thomas Noonan, an actor and Mr. Carson’s roommate their sophomore year.

Write to Reid J. Epstein at Reid.Epstein@wsj.com

ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #206 on: November 08, 2015, 09:19:44 AM »
I had decided not to post the WSJ article. But since CD did, I must now comment.

So far, on the stories being checked out in the Gifted Hands book, there appears no evidence to support the claims made by Carson. In fact, any evidence found tends to contradict the claims.  (For the West Point story, there is now a report going around that when the dinner occurred where Carson met Westmoreland, military records indicate that Westmoreland was not there, but was somewhere else not even close.)

At this point, Carson will have to step out and provide proof of details in some manner or another. He can no longer just attack CNN and Politico for making up lies and trying to take him down.

The West Point story should be easily vetted by having attendees come forward and verify the presence of Westmoreland at the dinner. This could help contradict the military records claim that Westmoreland was not there.

The High School story could be vetted the same way if one or more of the students came forward and verified it. (BTW, something I missed before. What is a student, Carson, doing with a key to the Biology Lab?)

The Yale "Perceptions 301" story is really problematic. How can Carson provide evidence on this one, unless he got the name of the Class wrong. Again, he would need the professor to come forward, or else students in the class so as to support his claim.

I have been reading comments on HotAir, Gateway Pundit, BreitBart, Yahoo and other websites regarding the original West Point story. The comments were also all positive towards Carson. It shall be interesting with the new claims as to how the comments will go. 

Unfortunately, Carson now has a Gary Hart problem. The media is going to vet everything now to see if evidence exists to support his past. Carson has to get ahead of it at this point by bringing forward people who were there. Otherwise the drip, drip, drip becomes a flood.

PPulatie

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #207 on: November 08, 2015, 09:48:52 AM »
Though I have held off from "endorsing" Dr. Ben, my liking for him and my doubts about him on the issues have been no secret around here.  The reason I posted the WSJ article is simple-- I search for Truth.

As far as the West Point issue goes, I am not persuaded by the attacks.  Even the point Pat raises, about Westmoreland not being in town on the dates in question has an alternative explanation-- that the meeting took place at a dinner in Detroit about a month from the dates in question.  As for the rest, the "scholarship" etc. I'm not seeing anything hard against Dr. Ben there.

The breaking of the knife on the belt buckle story:  Intuitively this story seems dubious to me, but the attacks ("We talked to people who weren't there and they didn't see it") so far seem to fell well short of some sort of reasonable standard of proof.

Not familiar with the Perceptions 301 story.

ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #208 on: November 08, 2015, 10:34:11 AM »
The Perceptions 301 story is in the WSJ article.

Carson had took a class, Perceptions 301. The class took a test. The next day the professor walked into class and stated that the exams had caught fire and been destroyed, New exams would have to be taken and those exams would be far more difficult.

Everyone but Carson walked out of the class. Carson stayed and took the test. The professor admitted that the whole thing was a hoax. He wanted to test the honesty of the class. The only one who passed was Carson, and so the professor gave Carson $10 and had a photo taken of him and Carson, to be published in a campus paper.

The WSJ investigated this story. There was no evidence of a photo or story in any paper. But that is not the damning part. Checking with the school history, there had not been any class named Perceptions 301.

Carson can validate this story by showing his transcripts where he took the class and by having students in the class support his story. Absent the transcripts proving he took the class, the story becomes false.
PPulatie

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #209 on: November 08, 2015, 10:38:11 AM »
Ah.

Circling back to the West Point scholarship story, the dust begins to settle:  https://www.facebook.com/realbencarson/posts/551602598339544 

ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #210 on: November 08, 2015, 10:52:03 AM »
The politico story did go to scholarship,  so that part is not in question.

Who offered him the scholarship? That is the question. And was the offer simply hey, you go to West Point and you can get a scholarshiip?  Or you can get into West Point and get a scholarship. If so, that does not meet the "standard" of a real offer. So was this a simple error in writing or grammar?

But as the other stories come out, Carson must explain, especially the Perceptions 301 class...............

BTW, if you read the book, the writing is not to a literary level. It is very simplistic. I was actually quite surprised by this. If this was how he wrote for medical journals, he would never get anything published.

PPulatie

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #211 on: November 08, 2015, 12:36:35 PM »
I have the book, and attribute the literary style to his probable sense of the level of most voters.

ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson backs Puerto Rico statehood
« Reply #212 on: November 08, 2015, 01:51:15 PM »
Another deal killer with Carson. He backs statehood for Puerto Rico.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/259506-carson-backs-puerto-rican-statehood
PPulatie

ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #213 on: November 08, 2015, 02:18:27 PM »
More on the Yale Class issue

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/carson-stumbles-trump-slowly-turns-204700100.html

From the article:

He ripped a Wall Street Journal article in which the reporter claimed that a class given at Yale Carson claimed to have taken in his book Gifted Hands, did not actually exist. Carson pushed back by posting to social media what he said was a syllabus from the class. However, Carson claimed to have taken the class in 1970, and the syllabus was from 2002.

and

The Journal reported finding no record of the hoax, but Carson’s campaign found a story in the Yale Daily News telling how a student prank involving a fake issue of the student newspaper had convinced a handful of psychology students that they would have to retake a final exam. In Carson’s telling, however, the prank had been devised by his professor as a sort of test of moral character that Carson, alone among his classmates, passed.

My thoughts:

If the Carson campaign article is correct, it would appear that Carson does "play loose" with the facts on some of his stories? Does this disqualify his for office? Not necessarily, but it does pose credibility issues.

But more damaging are the views that he holds on:

TPP
Immigration
Potential 2nd Amendment Issues
Statehood for Puerto Rico

I would imagine to see support for Carson begin to drop. But where does the support go?
PPulatie

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #214 on: November 08, 2015, 07:03:46 PM »
What are his thoughts on statehood for PR?

ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #215 on: November 09, 2015, 07:19:44 AM »
For statehood
PPulatie

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile
WSJ: The Carson Crucible
« Reply #217 on: November 09, 2015, 10:07:43 AM »
second post

The Carson Crucible
Policy is a bigger challenge for the doctor than his biography.
Nov. 8, 2015 5:01 p.m. ET


Ben Carson has risen in the Republican presidential polls in part on his inspiring biography, so it’s no surprise that his opponents and the press corps are looking for ways to blot the ledger. How the retired pediatric neurosurgeon handles this onslaught may decide whether he remains a serious contender.


This kind of scrutiny is inevitable, as Mr. Carson has to appreciate. No Republican candidate is going to get to the White House without a severe media hazing. Mr. Carson is right that Barack Obama got a relative pass in 2008, but this double standard is a reality every Republican candidate has to manage. Mr. Carson can expect harassment from the left in particular because he is a black conservative. Progressives have prospered by dividing the electorate by race and gender, and so they can’t tolerate a black conservative as a successful political role model.

The retired doctor also has the handicap of never before having run for office, so he has been vetted less than career politicians like Marco Rubio or Chris Christie. Because his main appeal is biography rather than policy, opponents will naturally try to attack that strength.

But Republicans want to nominate the strongest possible candidate, and better for bad news to come out now rather than at the hands of the Hillary Clinton-Sid Blumenthal attack machine. George W. Bush sat on his DUI conviction in 2000, the news came out only days before the election, and it almost cost him the White House.

A pair of stories last week challenged details in Mr. Carson’s 1996 memoir, “Gifted Hands,” that he has also used on the campaign trail. CNN says it talked to nine people who knew Mr. Carson as a young man who said they couldn’t corroborate his stories of violent outbursts. But that hardly proves they didn’t happen. Mr. Carson says they did happen and one involved a close family member who wants to remain anonymous.

A story in Politico then questioned his claim that he had been offered a “full scholarship” to West Point. But Politico marred its minor scoop by asserting at first that Mr. Carson had claimed to have applied and been accepted to West Point, which Mr. Carson’s memoir does not claim. The U.S. Military Academy doesn’t offer scholarships like other schools in any case, because everyone admitted pays for the education with military service, not tuition.

Politico also reported that Mr. Carson admitted that he “fabricated” the scholarship offer, but that is tendentious. Mr. Carson admits he was told at a dinner with military officials that a student with his record in high school and ROTC would have had no trouble getting into West Point. Mr. Carson now concedes that he could have been more precise in how he has rendered the story.

Our view is that voters will decide what is or isn’t a voting issue, and conservatives shouldn’t play the Clinton game of claiming that challenges to credibility are out of bounds. But the CNN and Politico stories don’t strike us as all that damaging, much less disqualifying, and neither one undermines the truth of Mr. Carson’s rise from poverty to the pinnacle of the medical profession. Compared with Mr. Carson, President Obama grew up in relative privilege.

Assuming there are no bombshells in Mr. Carson’s past, his best strategy to counter doubts about his candidacy is to show more mastery of policy issues than he has so far. Mr. Carson’s talk about Medicare has in particular been politically careless.

It’s fine to talk up medical-savings accounts as a long-term health-care reform. But only a rookie candidate would suggest such accounts could replace Medicare without first noting that this won’t affect current retirees or near-retirees, and would be phased in over decades. If Mr. Carson is the nominee, Democrats will make it sound as if he wants to throw grandma off the bus.

Mr. Carson says voters want someone who isn’t a professional politician, and the polls show that GOP voters are entertaining the idea. But as the primaries arrive, voters will be looking for political and policy competence as much as personal character. They want someone who can beat Hillary Clinton and who they can imagine in the Oval Office. Passing that test is Mr. Carson’s biggest challenge as he seeks the nomination.
 

DougMacG

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19316
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #218 on: November 09, 2015, 10:17:40 AM »
"Policy is a bigger challenge for the doctor than his biography."

agree.

The problem with attacking alleged embellishment of his biography is that it doesn't need embellishment.  He had a phenomenal career.  We don't know how well that translates over to being a great President.

Like Trump and others, as he nails down his specifics, he narrows his following. 

ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #219 on: November 09, 2015, 10:24:20 AM »
Apparently, Mom confirmed the stabbing story in 1997. She said it was a friend also.

Most damaging are his views on different things.  He supports:

TPP
Immigration
Puerto Rico statehood
Possible 2nd Amendment issues

PPulatie

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #220 on: November 09, 2015, 10:38:57 AM »
Would you happen to have a citation for Mom's confirmation?


ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #221 on: November 09, 2015, 11:28:01 AM »
See, I do post "positive things" about Carson when I can find them. It is just that they are so hard to find.   :evil:

http://www.mediaite.com/online/burden-of-truth-back-on-media-as-buzzfeed-finds-confirmation-from-carsons-mom-on-stabbing-incident/
PPulatie

ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #222 on: November 09, 2015, 12:27:18 PM »
New North Carolina Poll from ELON University shows Carson leading significantly.

Internals show 10% more women that men polled and 21% of those polled were black. Nothing on evangelicals.

This poll differs from PPP a week earlier which had Trump at 31% and Carson at 23%.   PPP did not provide full breakdowns of demographics.

PPulatie

G M

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 26643
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #223 on: November 10, 2015, 05:59:29 AM »
See, I do post "positive things" about Carson when I can find them. It is just that they are so hard to find.   :evil:

http://www.mediaite.com/online/burden-of-truth-back-on-media-as-buzzfeed-finds-confirmation-from-carsons-mom-on-stabbing-incident/

Imagine if Carson was as gifted with a scalpel as Trump is with a comb.

ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson on Immigration
« Reply #224 on: November 12, 2015, 07:32:36 AM »
Carson  on immigration. Here are the problems with this proposal. To make them "legal", he proposes work permits. First they register, then get checked out, and if okay, they are to pay a back tax penalty.

1. Those who cannot pass the background check will not apply.

2.  Those who cannot pay the penalty will not apply.

3.  6 Months to register. How long to process?

4.  The agency doesn't even have the programs developed yet. How long will implementation take?

5. If they want to leave and come back as citizens, that is the only way to get citizenship.  (Interesting proposition but I fear it would not work.)

The only part of the program that would work is the interdiction at the border.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/11/ben-carson-stop-illegal-immigration-by-teaching-ag-business-in-south-america-video/

A reporter asked, “Can you explain your position on immigration? Are you in favor of encouraging people here to have a way to get — or in favor of supporting people here?”

Carson said, “Very easy question. I’m in favor of enforcing the laws that we have and in favor of securing our borders. All of our borders. This is not a difficult thing to do as was demonstrated in Yuma county Arizona where they stopped 97 percent of illegal immigration by putting up a double fence with asphalt road in between so there was quick access.
Actually putting border guards on the border and prosecuting first time offenders rather than the catch and release program that we now have. That stopped. That’s without the addition of some of the unique surveillance equipment that we now have available to us. I think you can get pretty close to a hundred percent.

The other thing you have to do is you have to decrease the incentives for people to come here. They say what is the point. That gets rid of the influx but it doesn’t take care of the 11-plus million people that are still here. I propose that we give them a six month period in which to register. If they don’t register, they’re criminals and treated as such. If they register in that six-month period and have a pristine record and they wish to be guest workers in this country they would have to pay a back tax penalty and have to continue to pay taxes going forward. They would no longer have to live in the shadow. That does not give them the right to vote. It does not make them U.S. citizens. If they want to become U.S. citizens, they have to go through the same thing anybody else wants to become a citizen, including leaving the country and apply from the outside unless the American people indicate they want a difference course than that.”

« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 07:41:46 AM by ppulatie »
PPulatie

DougMacG

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19316
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson on Immigration
« Reply #225 on: November 12, 2015, 08:28:08 AM »
...
A reporter asked, “Can you explain your position on immigration? Are you in favor of encouraging people here to have a way to get — or in favor of supporting people here?”

Carson said, “Very easy question. I’m in favor of enforcing the laws that we have and in favor of securing our borders. All of our borders. This is not a difficult thing to do as was demonstrated in Yuma county Arizona where they stopped 97 percent of illegal immigration by putting up a double fence with asphalt road in between so there was quick access.
Actually putting border guards on the border and prosecuting first time offenders rather than the catch and release program that we now have. That stopped. That’s without the addition of some of the unique surveillance equipment that we now have available to us. I think you can get pretty close to a hundred percent.

The other thing you have to do is you have to decrease the incentives for people to come here. They say what is the point. That gets rid of the influx but it doesn’t take care of the 11-plus million people that are still here. I propose that we give them a six month period in which to register. If they don’t register, they’re criminals and treated as such. If they register in that six-month period and have a pristine record and they wish to be guest workers in this country they would have to pay a back tax penalty and have to continue to pay taxes going forward. They would no longer have to live in the shadow. That does not give them the right to vote. It does not make them U.S. citizens. If they want to become U.S. citizens, they have to go through the same thing anybody else wants to become a citizen, including leaving the country and apply from the outside unless the American people indicate they want a difference course than that.”

This is an excellent answer, very well thought through in my opinion.

PP's observations of weaknesses in this proposal are valid.  If they can't afford the penalty, they won't register.  Could be true.  But the IRS type program could also accept a payment plan of 30 years or more for a family.  A liberal friend says that if the policy is deportation, they will all hide.  Some truth in that.  Our government has incredible powers to track people, but is that what we want?  Trump says the process would be humane.  In this case he is reading the other side right; they will argue it is not, people dragged forcibly out of their own homes, women screaming,  children crying, you can already visualize the political ad.  Carson is spelling out a humane process in contrast with Trump's silence on it.

Jeb and Kasich are nuts to think there is no problem, let's keep going on the current path.

There has to be middle ground and both Rubio and Carson are seeking it.  There has to be border security and visa enforcement.  There have to be some people sent back, to send a message to the next wave that getting in and staying in is not a certainty anymore.  America is under new management.  And there has to be a way that productive, (otherwise) law abiding people and families, who are already fully established here for many years under the de facto amnesty of the last decades have some path to stay.  Carson hit that note as well as it can be done.

Are we talking about a $50 penalty, a $5,000 penalty or a $50,000 penalty?  Crafty talks about pricing the economic externalities.  Let's calculate the costs, divide it by the number of people involved and assess it.

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #226 on: November 12, 2015, 08:57:20 AM »
Let's bring these posts over to the discussion on the Immigration thread.

DougMacG

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19316
    • View Profile
Minimum wage and Ben Carson's on the job training
« Reply #227 on: November 12, 2015, 09:07:32 AM »
Previously on these pages I ripped Dr. Carson on minimum wage.  
http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=2464.msg89725#msg89725
http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=2464.msg89767#msg89767
http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=2464.msg89945#msg89945

I should also include Crafty's response, "Are you making the perfect the enemy of the good here?"
------------------------------------------------------------------

In the most recent debate (and in response to the forum), Carson sharpened up his answer a little:

"Every time we raise the minimum wage, the number of jobless people increases."
------------------------------------------------------------------

Another rookie mistake and Politifact goes to town on it, helping to arm our opponents:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/10/ben-carson/ben-carson-said-raising-minimum-wage-will-increase/
joblessness rose after a minimum-wage hike more than half the time -- seven out of 11 occasions -- but fell four times. Since joblessness fell some of the time, it means that Carson’s sweeping claim -- that joblessness rises "every time" the minimum wage goes up is off-base.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe he hasn't spent enough time reading the forum.

Nothing is as simple as he put it.  You will have fewer jobs than you would otherwise have had, which is impossible to measure.  What we call in economics, 'all other things held constant', which of course never happens.

PolitiFact goes on to say: 6 of the 11 periods of hiking minimum wage involved a recession, which, "at the very least, raises questions about whether a minimum wage hike in and of itself caused joblessness."   - Hmmm...

Luckily, Carson is performing well in other areas and is close tot he truth here.  He may get a third swing at this when the PolitiFact piece becomes the focus of his next economic debate question.  

Government programs and government mandated wage levels are not what bring people up from the lowest wrung of the economic ladder.  No one can say that better than Carson.    But to repeat what has already been posted, a city, state or federal minimum wage law does not require an employer to pay a employee more, it prohibits employers from hiring people that are worth less than the minimum wage, like the inexperienced, the unskilled and the young workers -the ones who need those jobs the most.


What did YOU get most from your first job?  Was it the $8 or $10 an hour in your paycheck (1.75/hr in my case), or was it the exposure to a work ethic, work system, work culture, skills, knowledge and interaction with people in business that allowed you to grow and make ten times and a hundred times that much money later?

ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #228 on: November 12, 2015, 11:11:03 AM »
Another attack piece on Carson....it is now readily apparent that there is a deliberate campaign going on to take out Carson. Who benefits from this?

Trump is estimated to get about a bump of about 10 points. This would not give him enough votes to win a majority in most of the Primary states at this time.  Rubio and Cruz would be expected to garner most of the rest of the Carson voters. Neither would have the support levels to win a majority in any state.

This means if Carson can be sufficiently weakened, then the attention must be turned to another candidate to weaken him. Cruz next? Or Trump?

http://news.yahoo.com/ap-exclusive-carson-profits-friendship-felon-085227938--election.html
PPulatie

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #229 on: November 12, 2015, 11:26:17 AM »
It will be interesting to see what is made of this.

If it goes badly for Carson, I don't see much of his base going to Trump though.

ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #230 on: November 12, 2015, 11:51:01 AM »
I  doubt this will go anywhere. Carson will just rely upon his faith and the bible to speak to forgiveness.  (BTW, Rubio has a similiar issue, but it is his brother-in-law and drugs, and his sister and drug/asset forfeiture.)

Studies and polls are showing that if Carson drops out, Trump gets about a 10% bump in support. Still not enough to go over 50% in most states.
PPulatie

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #231 on: November 12, 2015, 11:54:12 AM »
Meaning he goes from 25% to 27.5% or from 25% to 35%?

DougMacG

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19316
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #232 on: November 12, 2015, 12:07:50 PM »
Guilt by association?  This latest attempt isn't going to bring Carson down, and Trump is not the natural recipient of that support (IMO).

Both are running on their personality and intellect, and they couldn't be more different.  Their policies are turning out to be quite different too.


ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #233 on: November 12, 2015, 12:34:36 PM »
25% to 35%.

Some polls taken have shown what happens when Carson, Trump and others are not in the race. When Carson is not in, the Trump support does go up 10 points.
PPulatie

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #234 on: November 12, 2015, 05:44:58 PM »
Thanks.  I wouldn't have predicted that.

ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #235 on: November 12, 2015, 06:35:50 PM »
Crap......the latest from Carson...............First he claims that Russia planes are not flying over Syria, just Iraq. Then he states we tell Russia we are imposing a No Fly Zone in  Syria, and if Russian planes fly in it, we shoot them down after a warning. So he just expects Russia to cease operations over Syria just because we tell them to and impose a No Fly Zone.

This guy is a real clown.


http://www.mediaite.com/online/carson-if-russian-planes-violate-a-no-fly-zone-shoot-them-down/

"If they do come into that area — after you have given them adequate warning, after we’ve talked to Putin — you shoot them down. Absolutely,” Carson told radio host Simon Conway, who pointed out to Carson that the Russians would likely respond forcefully"
PPulatie

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #236 on: November 13, 2015, 12:15:19 AM »
I think if you look into it, Dr. Ben is not suggesting a no-fly zone where Russians are already conducting operations but elsewhere, perhaps along the Turkish border, where the refugee camps are.  This seems pretty reasonable to me; if we can't provide safe haven for them in Syria, then it will be hard to stop them from invading Europe even more.  If they have safe haven, it establishes the prerequisite for sending those in Europe back to the safe haven.


ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #237 on: November 13, 2015, 07:16:00 AM »
Carson has said on more than one occasion that he wants the No Fly Zone in Syria. Of course, he has no idea who is in Syria. He said in the debate that China was involved in Syria, but they are not. And now he does not believe that the Russians are flying in Syria and had to be corrected by the reporter to which he did not further respond.............
PPulatie

DougMacG

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19316
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #238 on: November 13, 2015, 07:47:47 AM »
Carson has said on more than one occasion that he wants the No Fly Zone in Syria. Of course, he has no idea who is in Syria. He said in the debate that China was involved in Syria, but they are not. And now he does not believe that the Russians are flying in Syria and had to be corrected by the reporter to which he did not further respond.............

Learning curve.

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #239 on: November 13, 2015, 09:25:20 AM »
"Carson has said on more than one occasion that he wants the No Fly Zone in Syria."

Making sure they we are understanding each other, the NFZ along the Turkish border would be in Syria, but not where the Russians are currently flying.

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #240 on: November 13, 2015, 12:44:46 PM »
Marc F.,

There is a dangerous trend underway on our college campuses, from the University of Missouri to my alma mater of Yale University. Free speech and open dialogue are being trampled.

We are getting to the point where people can say, "I don't like what you're doing. It's offensive," and therefore believe they have the right to be violent or shout people down.

Not only is this infantile, but it's an affront to the First Amendment.

But let's not kid ourselves -- this is part of a larger problem in our society.

People are using political correctness as a tool to silence those with whom they disagree, and rather than having an open dialogue to solve our many problems, people get into their respective corners and demonize each other.

One of the main reasons I'm running for President is to push back against this type of behavior.

As I said in my closing statement at this week's debate, we can move beyond our current division and despair not by "We the Democrats" or "We the Republicans," but as "We the People" of America working together, and realizing that we are not each other's enemies.

I'm happy to tell you that we've now launched "Students for Carson" chapters on thousands of college campuses across the country. I'm hopeful that in their own small way, they will do their part to "heal, inspire and revive" our great nation.

ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #241 on: November 13, 2015, 06:42:57 PM »
 :-D :-D :-D

This is perfect. During the debate, Carson said that China was in Syria. This morning, he cited that he had proof that China was in Syria and he was going to provide it. Now this.
He meant military weapons and equipment, not troops.  ...the meaning of is is......

http://news.yahoo.com/carson-promises-release-documents-china-syria-172855706--election.html

PPulatie

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile
WSJ: Calling Dr. Ben , , ,
« Reply #242 on: November 16, 2015, 11:41:06 AM »
The press corps has spent two weeks obsessing over what Ben Carson has said about his past. It’d be better off plumbing a far more problematic aspect of his campaign: What exactly is he thinking for the future?

Mr. Carson has been a declared presidential candidate for six months. He spent months more contemplating that run. Now we’re barely more than two months from the Iowa caucuses. And the nation is still waiting for any measure of policy detail from the Carson campaign.

The pediatric neurosurgeon captured attention on the strength of a truly impressive and truly compelling biography. And he’s stoked that interest with his pitch for American renewal. Asked on Fox News Sunday recently to what he attributes his polling strength, Mr. Carson talked about the public’s interest in “truth and integrity” and “traditional American values.” His new TV ad features the tagline “heal, inspire, revive.” This is soothing for an American electorate still aching for the hope and change Barack Obama never delivered.

Then again, this is a high-stakes presidential race, and Mr. Carson is obliged to be something more than Seabiscuit. Voters don’t like Mr. Obama’s divisive politics, but the core of their complaint is his destructive policy agenda. Any Republican president will face an extraordinary task in cleaning up the mess. Redirecting the country will require a very clear, very methodical plan.

Mr. Carson has more duty than most to outline such a plan—both because he has no voting record, and because his past policy prescriptions are so varied. Many Americans date their first notice of Ben Carson to that prayer breakfast in 2013, when he criticized ObamaCare in front of the president. In fact, the surgeon has spent 15 years writing a string of best-selling books and giving interviews that feature policy ideas.

Just a few past Carson proposals: He has called for government to take responsibility for providing catastrophic health insurance, funded by taxes on insurers. He has called for turning insurers into “nonprofit service organizations with standardized, regulated profit margins.” He’s suggested that he’d be OK with a total tax rate (federal, state, local) of 37%—or 42% for those earning more than $1 million. He’s suggested having government pay for child-care facilities. He has proposed (as recently as January) a “luxury tax on very expensive items, which provides an opportunity for the wealthy to pay down the national debt.”

It’s possible Mr. Carson now holds different views. We don’t really know. He has in recent weeks started to outline some major proposals, but rarely on paper, and often with giant question marks. On Monday he finally put a number to his flat tax—15%—and said he’d eliminate all deductions. He wants to extend that rate to capital gains and foreign income. This is a start.

Then again, Mr. Carson has also said he’d offer a “rebate” for people in poverty. How does that work? And what about a specific corporate tax rate? Carried interest? Expensing? Dividends? Tax harmonization? He has said he’d declare a tax holiday for multinationals with money overseas, but that then he’d require them to invest 10% of what they bring back in “enterprise zones.” How’s that work? And why?

ObamaCare has motivated the Republican electorate for years. Mr. Carson spent a long time suggesting he’d replace government health programs like Medicare with cradle-to-grave health savings accounts—to which the government would contribute. When asked about it recently, Mr. Carson said, “That’s the old plan. That’s been gone for several months now.”

His new HSA plan, though not formally released, would seem to coexist with Medicare and Medicaid, giving recipients the option of reallocating federal dollars to health accounts. And everyone else? Mr. Carson has implied he is against the federal government funding HSAs for workers. At the same time he’s suggested that he’d get rid of the tax benefit for corporations that currently provide health benefits to tens of millions of Americans.

He has changed his mind four times on the minimum wage—criticizing Mr. Obama for proposing a hike, then saying the rate did need to rise, then proposing a two-tiered system tied to inflation, and then (at this week’s debate) opposing any changes (again).

In fairness, there are many issues on which Mr. Carson is consistent and clear: tort reform, the need to cut spending and repeal ObamaCare. In fairness, there are many issues on which he is not.

The point is not to pile on, but to note that these are basic and legitimate questions. Being president, like pediatric neurosurgery, takes great study and work. You don’t wing an operation to separate conjoined twins. And you don’t wing saving a country.

Few doubt that Mr. Carson is incredibly smart and capable, that he has the values and integrity he speaks of. But values and integrity are but a framework for purpose. The nation deserves to know Mr. Carson’s specific purpose. 

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile
Super PAC ad for Dr. Ben
« Reply #243 on: November 18, 2015, 07:50:19 AM »

ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #244 on: November 19, 2015, 05:57:32 PM »
Here is a question for anyone?  Has anyone seen anything on Carson rallies, even prior to his book tour?  If so, how many were in attendance?  I have seen nothing on this.

If Carson is not holding rallies, how can he be a serious candidate?

Also, there is nothing  so far either about Carson signature gathering efforts in the early primary states. If he is not having such an effort, what is he doing? Promoting his brand?
PPulatie

ppulatie

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 1145
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson
« Reply #245 on: November 19, 2015, 05:59:44 PM »
Should clarify...........nothing I know of since Sep
PPulatie

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile

DougMacG

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19316
    • View Profile
Re: Dr. Ben Carson stumbles on founders
« Reply #247 on: November 23, 2015, 08:52:06 AM »
http://nyc.suntimes.com/national-world-news/7/72/2172537/ben-carson-stumbles-american-history

Ben Carson may want to brush up on his American history before his next interview, especially if one of his favorite topics — the Founding Fathers — comes up.

For the second time in weeks, he botched a reference to Thomas Jefferson.

During a C-SPAN interview that aired Sunday night, host Steve Scully pointed out that Carson talks a lot about the Founding Fathers and asked Carson if he has one in particular that he’s most impressed with.

“I’m impressed by a lot of them, but particularly impressed with Thomas Jefferson, who seemed to have very deep insight into the way that people would react,” Carson said. “And he tried to craft our Constitution in a way that it would control people’s natural tendencies and control the natural growth of the government.”

There’s only one problem. Jefferson didn’t help draft the Constitution.

Interestingly, it’s a fact that Carson got right in his book, “A More Perfect Union.”

As The Washington Post pointed out, Carson correctly stated in the book that Jefferson was “missing in action” while the Constitution was being drafted, as he was overseas.

Just a few weeks ago, Carson tried to diffuse criticism of his lack of political experience by saying that “every signer of the Declaration of Independence had no elected office experience.”

That statement is totally false, as a number of signers had been elected to political office prior to 1770, and that included Jefferson. According to the Independence Hall Association, at least 30 of the signers of the Declaration of Independence had been elected to a political office.


Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 71948
    • View Profile