Author Topic: President Trump  (Read 472049 times)

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #500 on: December 08, 2015, 10:53:29 AM »
Well, in that, as usual, he lacks specifics as he gives ammo to the Left and loses us the middle.  There is a reason he polls worse against Hillary that other Reps such as Rubio.  How about some specific suggested starting points about how to "figure things out"?   I heard that in one interview when asked for specifics he said the Customs agent "could ask whether they were Muslim".    Seriously???


G M

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #501 on: December 08, 2015, 11:12:22 AM »
Here is what I posted on my FB page earlier:

I trust my hard line credentials with regard to the War with Islamic Fascism are in good order.

Trump has served our democratic process well by shaking things up and speaking plainly and his courage in doing so has improved the quality of the conversation by forcing others to speak plainly.

That said, as can be witnessed by many of my posts on my forum (see the "Trump" thread and the "2016 Presidential" thread, I have consistently opposed him as a glib and superficial narcissist with a short concentration span resulting in a "drive-by" approach to serious issues and for being seriously wrong on a number of issues (and right on some others). I have spoken of him lacking in deep principles and convictions and of the dubious logic of electing a crony capitalist to solve the profound challenge to our constitutional republic of economic fascism a.k.a. crony capitalism.

The true blame for Trump's success (which is much less than it appears due to the fragmentation of the votes of those opposed to him by the unusually large volume of candidates) so far properly falls on the failings, subversions, and lies of the Obama presidency and of the Demogogues and Patricians of the US Congress that have left the American people rightly angry and frustrated.

Turning to the issue of the moment, there most certainly IS a fifth column danger to our country lurking within the larger Muslim community and the cranial-rectal interface of our so-called Commander in Chief in this regard sets the stage for Trump's call of yesterday to block the movements of all Muslims into the US (though he has clarified that US citizens can return-- how white of him oy vey).

I fear what Trump exhibits in this moment and the response it is already triggering will consume all the oxygen in the room and divert us from the failings of Obama, progressivism, and the Washington Cartel and undercut those of us who advocate firm action by putting us on our heels by having to distance ourselves from his bombastic foolishness.

Because the man appears to get his policy briefings from television and form his policies by listening to his gut response to the blatherings emitting therefrom, we now have from him , , , what we have.

To choose one low hanging piece of fruit out of many-- what about the Iraqi and Afghani interpreters-- Muslims all-- whom we deny admittance to America though they are vouched for by our brave soldiers whose lives they saved? Instead we abandon them to be picked off from the battlefield we abandoned. As articulated by Trump, all hope for them is to be abandoned.

Trump would serve America far better if he focused on attacking Obama for abandoning these Muslims.

===========================

Before this piece of blazing stupidity from Trump we were talking about how ridiculous President Obama and Attorney General Lynch were in their phobia about Islamophobia. Indeed, even some of the Pravdas in the Main Stream Media were pointing out that there are 3.5 antisemitic incidents reported for every anti-Muslim incident.

What Trump has done here is hand a giant life line to Obama and Hillary, who will purport to turn Trump's support into "proof" of Islamophobia and the bigotry of the Republican Party, instead of the truth of the matter which would place the responsibility of people's anger at their doorstep.



Let's not act or the left will call us names they would call us anyway. Got it.

ppulatie

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #502 on: December 08, 2015, 11:35:00 AM »
And let's reveal how we would determine whether a person was a Radical Muslim so that new converts could be hidden from scrutiny.

Yeah right..........just like telling Iraq what dates we were pulling troops out.   Might be better to not disclose how we would track them.......
PPulatie

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #503 on: December 08, 2015, 12:37:06 PM »
C'mon now gents.  WE get called names.  Duh.  WE can't let that stop us.  Duh.  Nor should WE foolishly make it easy for the opposition.  Duh.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #504 on: December 08, 2015, 12:38:05 PM »
Some comments from an internet friend:

"I (still) doubt that Trump will get the nomination, and he wouldn't be my 1st choice....  But I think he deserves better than a few sneering interpretations and silly cartoons.

"Why?  Because his candidacy is unprecedented.  Somehow, he inspired millions of people to do something unique - ignore the opinions of our chattering, journalistic  and political consultant classes. I think that is remarkable...

"...And very interesting.  My view is that many people are smelling a rat.  They were brainwashed into thinking in concepts which have little connection to reality - for example, Fort Hood was workplace violence... Borrowing and spending multiple trillions of dollars is OK - and will help the economy...  ISIS has nothing in common with  Islam.  Etc, etc.

"Trump is a reaction to the subliminal recognition that we are being bamboozled into living in a make belief world, and that this will not end well.  At such a time, people are more likely to believe a boisterous rich dude from Queens - who even bullshits like a normal person - rather than all the synthetic robotic pro pols."

DougMacG

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #505 on: December 08, 2015, 01:01:31 PM »
Crafty:  "What Trump has done here is hand a giant life line to Obama and Hillary, who will purport to turn Trump's support into "proof" of Islamophobia and the bigotry of the Republican Party, instead of the truth of the matter which would place the responsibility of people's anger at their doorstep."


Yes.   I wrote previously:  ... opponents keep getting more ammunition to call him racist, bigoted, divisive, extreme.

I should have said:  Opponents keep getting more ammunition to call all of us racist, bigoted, divisive, extreme.


Carson said he couldn't support a Muslim for President.  He sounded bigoted and off-message to the casual listener/viewer even though people here recognized he was making a crucial point.  Sharia Law is the opposite of our core principles and constitution.  You have to reject Sharia Law in order to take the oath to uphold our constitution.  

In this time of a declared war against us, the same choice must be applied visitors and immigration applicants.  We can't take their word for it, so we vet.  We have to look for indicators, visiting radicalized areas, radicalized Mosques, radicalized websites, and those questions are different for different people coming from differnet areas for different reasons.  Vetting may involve guilt by association but our security is Job 3 (after pandering and giving out goodies).  Immigration law is not criminal law; there is no equal treatment clause of requirement of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.  If it makes us less safe then the right answer is no.  If we cannot successfully vet you, you should not get to come in.

But if you don't understand the delicate nature of all of this at the Presidential frontrunner level, then you have become part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Of course the left will use everything we say against us.  Don't make that so easy for them!





DougMacG

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #506 on: December 08, 2015, 01:08:30 PM »
Some comments from an internet friend:

"I (still) doubt that Trump will get the nomination, and he wouldn't be my 1st choice....  But I think he deserves better than a few sneering interpretations and silly cartoons.

"Why?  Because his candidacy is unprecedented.  Somehow, he inspired millions of people to do something unique - ignore the opinions of our chattering, journalistic  and political consultant classes. I think that is remarkable...

"...And very interesting.  My view is that many people are smelling a rat.  They were brainwashed into thinking in concepts which have little connection to reality - for example, Fort Hood was workplace violence... Borrowing and spending multiple trillions of dollars is OK - and will help the economy...  ISIS has nothing in common with  Islam.  Etc, etc.

"Trump is a reaction to the subliminal recognition that we are being bamboozled into living in a make belief world, and that this will not end well.  At such a time, people are more likely to believe a boisterous rich dude from Queens - who even bullshits like a normal person - rather than all the synthetic robotic pro pols."

This is a really nice summary of the Trump phenomenon.

I wonder where it goes from here.  Even Trump doesn't know that.

I don't find any of the remaining (R) contenders to be " synthetic robotic pro pols".  But what a perfect description of Hillary!

DDF

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #507 on: December 08, 2015, 08:44:40 PM »
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.”


Many Americans, can be bought, some can't.

I love Mexico, because it's an honest place.... you mouth off to the right person, and they'll cut your head off. They're openly racist, and so is everyone else.

They don't apologize for their culture, they don't accept immigrants unless they WANT to....

And unlike many, a lot of people don't have educations, leading the people with educations to believe that they're somehow better or smarter than everyone else, when really, educations have nothing to do with wisdom nor being honest or any other ethic one might choose. You don't have that problem here....

Trump? He's right you know.

Personally, I enjoy seeing what is happening in the US. So many people deserve it. Talk all this crap online, but won't get shot at to save their lives.

I had a problem with drug cartels and a government that kept telling me "no," because they thought they were my owner.... I laugh now, because I did something about it... personally....and shut people right the hell up.

Trump has irreversibly changed the States, in no small part to Obama's agenda.... This is going to be good.

Some of these high powered IQ's can't even finish a chess game or admit that they've been beaten.

Go Trump.

Crafty_Dog

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ccp

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #509 on: December 09, 2015, 05:52:15 AM »
I take issue with this piece.   Sounds like written by a liberal.

Take this for example:

"None of this establishes either correlation or causation, but it is remarkably coincidental how often Donald Trump has rescued Democrats from the jaws of a terrible news cycle and the withering scrutiny of the press."

Who on this board thinks the "press" scrutinizes Democrats to any where near the degree they do Republicans?   The majority main stream media do not do this. 

Secondly where is the evidence this has hurt The Republican party.  IF anything Trump is polling much better against criminal Clinton than before.

Besides his ideas are usually logical though I do agree he could cut out much of the name calling.

I agree with Ruppert Murdoch that his idea of temporarily banning Muslims coming here until we figure out better how to deal with this makes perfect sense.

What is logical about England letting Muslims in by the football stadium load makes sense when maybe 15% want to kill them but keeping someone here who is only using free speech from not?   We cannot let the left "crowd shame" us into being docile and falling in line with THEIR control mechanisms to just be enablers of their taking our freedoms.
   

ppulatie

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #510 on: December 09, 2015, 07:21:49 AM »
CCP,

Notice that this new argument that Donald is distracting from the real issues and therefore is helping Obama and Hillary has been picked up by most of the media as well as politicians, and even Dem supporters in some cases. All sides now realize that Trump and the Vulgarians represent a threat to the traditional power structures and the money to be made, so they try to come up with every reason possible to derail him.

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ccp

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #511 on: December 09, 2015, 07:26:50 AM »
Pop,

Agreed.   CNN with their endless "bullying" when it is gays, minorities, etc. 

But they bully other Americans when in their view we don't spout the same PC stuff they are ramming down our throats.


Crafty_Dog

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #512 on: December 09, 2015, 07:43:52 AM »
Fair points all, but for all the articles failings, some of its examples have merit , , , and why the hell did Bill call Donald a few days before he announced for the Presidency?  Helluva a coincidence in light of the point I made more than once early in this thread.  There is a profound narcissism in this man that leads him to put himself above country.  Again he threatens to play Ross Perot and put another Clinton in the White House and put an end to America as we know it.  THIS IS VILE.

ccp

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #513 on: December 09, 2015, 07:58:16 AM »
"profound narcissism"

I agree we don't need another one of these. 

Both Clintons and the  Brockster profound narcissist all

I wouldn't say that of any of the Bushes.

I agree there is some real concern Trump could pull the whole house down to crash and burn because of his ego.

That is why Cruz and then probably Rubio (with some nose holding, my 2nd choice) are ahead of him with regards to my preference for President.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #514 on: December 09, 2015, 08:27:15 AM »

G M

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Crafty_Dog

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #516 on: December 09, 2015, 05:04:03 PM »
A fair point!

Crafty_Dog

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G M

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #518 on: December 10, 2015, 01:43:23 AM »
http://www.vocativ.com/news/259159/the-father-of-a-muslim-war-hero-has-this-to-say-to-donald-trump/



"Khan was one of 14 American Muslims who died serving the United States in the ten years after the September 11 terrorist attacks."

How many American Muslims have engaged in terrorism in the US or internationally since 9/11?

ccp

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #519 on: December 10, 2015, 07:06:47 AM »
And of course left wing media are quoting Kareem Jabbar and the now hero draft dodger Mohammed Ali who contradict themselves by calling out Jihadis but at the same time call out the Donald's perfectly common sense proposal to put a temporary moratorium on Muslim immigration.  

I really don't see if a minority of Israelis or other Jews were hell bent on murdering Americans that I would be against a proposal to protect citizens from them with a ban.  I would be pissed about extra scrutiny of me because of it but my anger would be AGAINST those committing crimes putting me in that spot.  Ali and Jabbar should not be angry at us but only at the Jihadis.   What are they doing about them?  What are we supposed to continue being idiots and suckers letting people here who abuse us?

I just read Jimmy Carter put a ban on Iranians during the hostage crises.  We probably would agree that as bad as Carter was at least I don't recall anyone questioning his patriotism
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 07:09:00 AM by ccp »

ppulatie

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #520 on: December 10, 2015, 07:22:44 AM »
I wonder who wrote the statement for Ali. The last time I saw him on tv, he was "organic".
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ppulatie

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #521 on: December 10, 2015, 07:27:06 AM »
Oops.  Trump is finished.....again. 

New CBS poll

Trump at 35%, up from 22% in Oct.
Cruz is second at 16%.

And to support my claims that the GOPe will not support Trump, S.E. Cupp just came out and said she would vote for Hillary if Trump is the nominee.  (Doesn't she realize that being on CNN, she could command more money attacking Trump as President?)
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ccp

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #522 on: December 10, 2015, 07:43:32 AM »
"Trump at 35%"

But,

That is still not a majority.

And that is primary (Republican) voters not the general.

So say he wins the primary.   What are his real chances of winning the general?

ppulatie

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #523 on: December 10, 2015, 08:21:45 AM »
Uhhh, CBS was saying that he would never get above 15%, then it was 20%, then 25%, etc............His support keeps climbing. Why should it "peak now"? And look at the number of candidates in the race. Is there an assumption that when candidates fall out, the supporters will not go to Trump?  Uhh, this poll shows that Trump is getting what appears to be a large number of former Carson supporters...........that was not supposed to happen per the pundits.

Uhh, Cruz is at 16%, Rubio at 9%. These are not majority numbers either. Guess that neither can win in the general election either. In fact, since no one has even 50% of primary voters, let's just call the election over now and give Hillary the presidency.

If this was Jeb or Rubio leading with the same numbers, the race would be claimed to be over!  With Trump, it is "how can he win"?  Why the difference?

In the general election, Trump is already being shown to be getting Middle Class Dem cross over votes. In fact, much more than other Reps. And add one more terrorist attack in the US before the primaries, and Trump will increase much further in support.

Now, as I have said many times before, Trump will not be the nominee. This is so even if he wins all the Primaries and has the total popular vote. That is because the way the primaries are structured, no one can become the nominee without winning at least 8 states with 50% plus one of the vote. So the RNC/GOP will manipulate things under Rule 40 to put someone else in as nominee. And when that happens, here is what to expect.

1. Jeb as the candidate..........game over......Hillary wins. The base will not support Jeb. We have had enough Bushes.

2. Rubio as the candidate.......game over......Hillary wins. The base supporters for Trump will recognize the manipulation of the results and will stay home.

3. Cruz as the candidate.......the game becomes a bit more interesting........ Base supporters may consider going with Cruz if the selection of Cruz over Trump is perceived as "fair", and if Cruz had enough prior support to suggest he could win. If not, game over and Hillary wins.

If Trump is nominated because the GOP is unable to stop him, the very interesting times begin. Rubio and Jeb donors have already indicated that they would go over to Hillary. SE Cupp indicated the same yesterday. And there is even talk of the Reps going over to covertly support a 3rd Party Candidate, maybe even Romney.

What is the outcome? In every scenario, the GOP is finished in the form known today. It will split apart into two parties, and there will be no ability to reunite the two factions. But does the GOP care? If they deny a legitimate Trump nomination and instead covertly support someone else as a 3rd Party, it will prove that the GOP does not care. it is all about retaining their power in a seriously weakened party.

Remember, the GOP has already said that those supporting Trump can only return to the Party under the Party's terms. This is indicative of what they really think.


PPulatie

ccp

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #524 on: December 10, 2015, 08:34:34 AM »
PP,
Thanks for your response.  Some good points.   You paint a bleak picture for the right.
You may be correct in your analysis though it includes many assumptions but then again all analyses do.  
We are up a huge onslaught and the left imports from around the world everyone they can to rally behind them.
And they control the propaganda machine.
I can't believe anyone who is really conservative would vote for Hillary.  But I admit I came out and said I would NOT vote for Jeb (I would sit it out).

Who knows? :|

ppulatie

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #525 on: December 10, 2015, 08:58:07 AM »
Jeffrey Lord makes some very good points in this article. Chief among them, the GOP has wanted to open the tent to increase the GOP base. The voters supporting Trump on both sides are the people that they want. Yet, the GOP is doing everything possible to turn away those very same people.

As for me, I will only throw my support to Cruz if he wins the nomination legitimately. If it is manipulation to stop Trump, then the GOP is dead to me.


http://spectator.org/articles/64904/gops-trump-derangement-syndrome
PPulatie

DDF

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Why wouldn't everyone want to live with people like this?
« Reply #526 on: December 10, 2015, 03:41:59 PM »
[youtube]Cv1YgVKoqLw[/youtube]

A better question could perhaps be what would happen if people reacted this way to everyone that said "cracker" or "white boy?"

Noteworthy is that the immigrant actually had the nerve to question who Trump thinks he is, in his own country (Trumps land of birth).
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 03:47:22 PM by DDF »

Crafty_Dog

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ppulatie

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #528 on: December 10, 2015, 04:38:31 PM »
That was a beautiful interview. Could you imagine her as Press Secretary?
PPulatie

G M

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Re: Why wouldn't everyone want to live with people like this?
« Reply #529 on: December 10, 2015, 05:56:53 PM »
[youtube]Cv1YgVKoqLw[/youtube]

A better question could perhaps be what would happen if people reacted this way to everyone that said "cracker" or "white boy?"

Noteworthy is that the immigrant actually had the nerve to question who Trump thinks he is, in his own country (Trumps land of birth).

Crafty will give him a hug.  :-D

Glad to see a moderate Muslim getting well deserved attention.

Body-by-Guinness

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"Write my Next Bestseller?"
« Reply #530 on: December 11, 2015, 02:36:15 PM »
Many of the elements I find so distasteful about Trump are well explored here:

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/12/donald-trump-mark-bowden-playboy-profile

DDF

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Re: Why wouldn't everyone want to live with people like this?
« Reply #531 on: December 11, 2015, 05:00:37 PM »


Crafty will give him a hug.  :-D

Glad to see a moderate Muslim getting well deserved attention.
[/quote]

It's still, for the moment, a free country....of sorts. Crafty can hug whoever he likes.... hell, let's bring lots of people to hug. End sarcasm.

ppulatie

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #532 on: December 11, 2015, 05:48:40 PM »
Was that Obummers son?
PPulatie

DDF

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #533 on: December 11, 2015, 05:51:47 PM »
Was that Obummers son?

 :mrgreen:

Or Spike Lee, or Farrakhan, or insert name here....

"You got to kill they white people babies." Black Panther people....hell....starting to think they're all related.

G M

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DougMacG

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Re: Donald Trump takes on Cruz, Scalia
« Reply #535 on: December 14, 2015, 11:30:58 AM »
Cruz is a Maniac, not qualified to be (Vice) President. (?)    (Vice President being someone qualified to be President)
I wonder who would be good enough to be his Vice President, and matches his see-saw ideology?
---------------------------------

Even Rush L is now turning on his friend Donald Trump over Scalia rip.  Who on our side doesn't know that Justice Antonin Scalia is one of the good guys, and that this 'controversy' is leftist media manufactured.  (It's hard to read a free market guy who favors the expansion of central power and government takings.)

It isn't better for anybody to have kids with an admittance test score of 25 or 28 to go to a school where the other kids all had 32 or higher, no matter the race of any of them.  Racist is to set lower standards for black students.  A lot of things go wrong when you head down the other path.  But double standards make sense to a guy who thinks Hispanics can make good hotel workers.




Crafty_Dog

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ppulatie

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #537 on: December 15, 2015, 07:18:25 AM »
I bet you did not even listen to the speech and interview where this was said. Well, I did:

The maniac portion was actually in reference to Cruz and what he has done in the Senate. Cruz has done his filibustering, which is fine. but Cruz has alienated all the Senate as well. To show how bad it is, on a "second" procedural type vote yesterday, Cruz wanted to have a "second" vote. The entire Senate, both sides, completely rebuked him.

With this type of Cruzitute, how in the hell could he ever work with either side and both sides to get his programs passed?

As to the Scalia question, it was a gotcha type question. One had to know exactly what Scalia said and how it was referenced. And unless one saw a few specific sites that covered it, a person would not know the full context of the statement. Maybe Trump should not have responded without knowing the full sound bite, but this is not a big deal.

As to Ruch, he is a Cruzbot in the full blown mode. He likes Trump for the disruption that is caused, but he is Cruz all the way. And this was expected to happen at some point. And BTW, at the end of the show, Rush was backing down from all the flack.

As for Levin, he went there as well. And with his website, he bans anyone who challenges him and his position on Cruz. Say something anti-Cruz, and you are gone for good.

None of this matters though. The All Powerful Delegates to the Convention are going to change the rules so that their guy can win. After all, the primary voters and their choices mean nothing. We are simply lo info voters who are not smart enough to know what is good for us.

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G M

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #538 on: December 15, 2015, 07:22:48 AM »
So when the Donald alienates people, that's good, but when Cruz does it, it's bad?

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Re: Pamela Geller vs. Donald Trump on Free Speech
« Reply #539 on: December 15, 2015, 07:42:33 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgFD03kAA28

G M:  "So when the Donald alienates people, that's good, but when Cruz does it, it's bad?"

My thought also...

Very odd that Trump picked a fight with Pam Geller and her supporters.   Should be natural allies.  Trump thinks Geller is irresponsible, provocative, and says Cruz shouldn't be President because he doesn't play nicely with others.  For himself he envisions Book of Trump added to the Bible - in front of Genesis.

I believe all this happened before Trump ban on all Muslims entering this country.

What does our Objectivist say about this?

ppulatie

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #540 on: December 15, 2015, 07:51:59 AM »
Alienates people?  

Monmouth showing Trump at 41%.  Cruz at 14%. And Monmouth's owner does not like Trump......

The people who are "alienated" are the same people who were not going to support Trump anyway. They were simply looking for another reason to bash him.

Cruz cannot win the national election. He will be hammered with Tea Party attacks and his religious/conservative positions. Plus, he will not have any crossover appeal. And crossovers will be the key to winning the election.

If/when Trump hits 51%, what happens?  Oh, he is losing to Hillary so we can't have him. Well, what does losing to Hillary tell anyone?  

I have been criticized for saying that if the GOP manipulates the results of the convention, I will not support the nominee and not vote in the general election. At least I would do that based upon the fact that Trump had the base behind him, and the base was ignored.

If Trump has 51% of the vote and cannot beat Hillary, it means that the rest are not going to support Trump either. Yet is it for good cause simply because they do not like him? They would throw the election to Hillary out of spite?  

So what is good for the goose is not good for the gander? So the GOP elites can do it, but not the Trumpkins?

This is the end of the GOPe as we know it, and good riddance.


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ppulatie

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #541 on: December 15, 2015, 07:56:32 AM »
So let's see. Pam Gellar puts together a "convention" that renders drawings of Mohhamad that she knows will provoke a violent response.  This puts peoples lives at unnecessary risk.

I understand Freedom of Speech, but isn't this like shouting of fire in a crowded theater?  You can have Freedom of Speech which is provocative, but to engage in Speech designed to provoke a violent response is just completely irresponsible.
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DougMacG

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Re: Donald Trump on Scalia, Cruz, Whigs, Monmouth and Loser Law
« Reply #542 on: December 15, 2015, 08:21:26 AM »
PP: "As to the Scalia question, it was a gotcha type question. One had to know exactly what Scalia said and how it was referenced. And unless one saw a few specific sites that covered it, a person would not know the full context of the statement. Maybe Trump should not have responded without knowing the full sound bite, but this is not a big deal."

Interesting take.   He was happy to open mouth first and check facts second?  Then where did he tweet his correction; he said he would tell us when he is wrong.

When I think Scalia is wrong about something or hasn't fully thought it through, I KNOW to take a closer look.

What it shows is that Trump either doesn't take these things seriously, constitutional law, or he is on the other team, which also means he doesn't take these things seriously.  Like answering the objection to Kelo, how would you stop the abuse of that wrongful government power even if you could point to one example of where good seem to come from it?

Equal Protection is not a big deal?  Kelo is not a big deal?  Or is a good thing?  Supreme Court issues and picks not a big deal?  Or power grabbing Justices are fine?  Sandra Day O'Connor opinion in U of Mich affirmative action case made sense; she is smarter than the Founders?  We can change constitution by interpreting it as we wish instead of AMENDING it?  And Rubio is the one pretending to be conservative?  Good luck with that.
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PP: I bet you did not even listen to the speech and interview where this was said. Well, I did:
The maniac portion was actually in reference to Cruz and what he has done in the Senate. Cruz has done his filibustering, which is fine. but Cruz has alienated all the Senate as well. To show how bad it is, on a "second" procedural type vote yesterday, Cruz wanted to have a "second" vote. The entire Senate, both sides, completely rebuked him.

The point isn't that he is wrong on Cruz.  The reason that quote is so laughable is that is exactly what Trump is doing, for example on the debate stage or even in that comment, sabotaging his own possibility of picking even his closest ally in the entire field for VP.  Carly also, great VP choice is you want to beat Hillary - sabotaged.
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"The GOP deserves to go the way of the Whigs."

These are the people he needs to unite with to win the general election.  He needs to win them over just to win the nomination, but who cares about that...
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Loser Law in several states (44 states?), you can't run in the primary in one party and be on the general election ballot of another.  Trump's threat to run as an independent is coming to a head shortly.
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"Monmouth showing Trump at 41%.  Cruz at 14%."

   - Outlier poll.  His ceiling seems to be 35%.  But let's call it 41% with rounding.

"Cruz cannot win the national election. He will be hammered with Tea Party attacks and his religious/conservative positions. Plus, he will not have any crossover appeal. And crossovers will be the key to winning the election."

    - Agree.  Unless he has some magical, Reagan like ability to reach people and change them and he doesn't.

"If/when Trump hits 51%, what happens?"

    - He built his own disapproval and strong disapproval to prevent that from happening.

The most obvious, cynical, conspiratorial view of all this is not the GOPe plot theory since they don't even have a horse left to bet on, it is that Trump did this whole thing as a Hillary plant.  Trump gains a lot of self promotion, has a ball, turned the whole GOP race upside down and into a circus and a distraction.  Did so well even he forgot it was just a prank.  When was the last time you heard about her missing emails or a thousand and counting classified ones sent and received unsecured?  But if/when Trump loses or quits, a far right tea party Senator like Rubio or even Cruz looks like a responsible choice.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 08:28:22 AM by DougMacG »

ppulatie

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #543 on: December 15, 2015, 09:03:29 AM »
Outlier poll? 

ABC Post  38%
IPSOS/Reuters  37%
Gravis 42%
Zogby 38%
Morning Consult 41%

Let's see, Trumps ceiling was

15%
then 20%
then 25%
then 30%
then 35%

Guess this is it now.........he is finished and should drop out.

To quote Reagan, "Now there you go again" on Kelo. The Supreme Court was specific on this, and what the states needed to do to clarify things. Some states have enacted new laws and others have not. The question that remains is whether the needs of the one is more important that the needs of many in an interconnected society. Of course, you and I will never see this in the same light.

Everyone assumes that Cruz would make a great VP choice, or each Snarly.  Why not let Trump chose who he wants? Just because either Cruz or Snarly might look good on paper, that means nothing. After all, Reagan chose Bush, and win Bush became President, he began to unwind what Reagan started.

Trump needs to win over the rest of the Party to win.........maybe, but as in any primary, you run for the nomination and after the nomination is one, you run to win the rest of them.

What I do notice is that you have said nothing about Carly Hoaglund's article about the base and about the Convention delegates? Doesn't this bother you? The Party insiders having such a negative view of the base? And not caring what they want? If Trump has to win over the non Trump supporters, doesn't the RNC need to do the same with the Trump supporters? Instead, they want to screw them, put in their own candidate and expect the base to follow.

Sorry, did that with McCain and then with Romney. Look what happened. I will not do that again.

I want a party that respects the base, not one that has no use for them except as a voter in the general election.
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DougMacG

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #544 on: December 15, 2015, 10:25:55 AM »
Thanks Pat.

"What I do notice is that you have said nothing about Carly Hoaglund's article about the base and about the Convention delegates? Doesn't this bother you? ..."

I see the inside of the party differently than you do.  Each person there gave up a whole lot of their personal life to be there, there things are VERY time consuming and its not very rewarding.  The goal of each is to move the needle in their own direction and they likely don't favor Trump.

Referring to Nate Silver's and Sean Trende's separate analyses, if it goes to the convention, there are 3 scenarios.  I don't it happening that the convention or super delegates swing of this in a direction other than where the primary voters were clearly saying to take it.  It won't happen but if it did and elites change the obvious, rightful outcome of the race, then I share your view that would be seen as illegitimate and backfire on the party and its candidate.  That's why they won't do it.  Not because they are impartial referees.  As stated, it is not a worry of mine.

Without reading or eavesdropping on all the conversation (Hoaglund etc), of course the 49% who have a strong disapproval of Trump are going to worry about what happens if he is the nominee and privately discuss how to keep that from happening.  That doesn't mean the party will abandon the process when the time comes.  Trump also talks about how to play around the established rules yet here he is, holding events in the early states, up on stage in the debates and on the party ballots in the primaries.  Looks like a professional politician to me.   :wink:

Trump needs to be first place in the general election matchups and Rubio needs to be first place in the nominating matchups.  It is a stalemate coming into this debate.  Let's see who makes the next move...
-----------------

Kelo:  "The Supreme Court was specific on this, and what the states needed to do to clarify things. Some states have enacted new laws and others have not. The question that remains is whether the needs of the one is more important that the needs of many in an interconnected society."

   - "You and I will never see eye to eye on this."  False choice.   The right of the one is the right of the many and it is paramount.   You disagree but the political point is that Trump is out of step with the base on this, and with the constitution and with the Founders and the originalists which includes all the base.  I would love to see both Rubio and Cruz challenge him on this.  It is a wrongly decided Supreme Court case whether a person likes the policy or not.  The larger question comes front and center, what kind of Justices would he appoint?  "Great ones," he says.  I think Cruz in particular could pick that to shreds.  Trump is saying he would pick those who can't find the 4th, 5th or 9th amendments with both hands.  This is a perfect opening for Cruz to talk past Trump to his supporters. For Trump to have used that available power to his benefit in business is explainable, but to stand by it as we choose who chooses the Supreme Court of the next 30 years is another thing.  If Ted Cruz is reading the forum, this is your moment!


ppulatie

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #545 on: December 15, 2015, 10:41:01 AM »
You have ore faith in  the party than I do. 

As to the Supreme Court Justice appointees, let's just say

Kennedy,
Souter
Roberts

They were nominated by Republican Presidents. Each appeared to be strong Constitution supporters, but certainly their decisions often go astray.

As to Kelo, though the Supremes ruled the wrong way according to you, they also cited that states had the authority to pass laws that further defined use of ED. This would suggest that they also viewed it as a States Rights issue. So it is up for the states to take action.

And, the question that comes to mind is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights were written in a world of a different time. The Founding Fathers could not see how society would change. So they left in methods that would allow for changes as the world changed. 

How would the Father's interpret Public Interest? In a very narrow view, or a more open view? Especially in light of today's urban cities and development.

Of course, the Courts have held that the Bill of Rights is not all encompassing. There can be restrictions on each right.

1. Crying fire in a crowded theater.

2. Felons and other not allowed to own firearms.

3. Search and Seizure exceptions.

If these types of exceptions that trampled on an individual's rights are allowed for the public good, why not with ED?
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Crafty_Dog

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #546 on: December 15, 2015, 10:43:05 AM »
"I understand Freedom of Speech, but isn't this like shouting of fire in a crowded theater?  You can have Freedom of Speech which is provocative, but to engage in Speech designed to provoke a violent response is just completely irresponsible."

I wouldn't have expected this from you.

IMHO this is EXACTLY when assertion of free speech is of the essence, lest the enemy gets the idea that its intimidations are succeeding.

As for polls, the one that matters most is the one-on-one against Hillary.  Here Trump is in third or fourth place and Rubio is in first.


ppulatie

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #547 on: December 15, 2015, 01:12:04 PM »
CD,

I said that with Gellar, her actions were completely irresponsible and led to potential harm to the others with her, so it is all on her. Especially if there were participants who did not know that the objective was to in cite and invite threats.

Does Freedom of Speech allow you to directly put others into harm's way no matter what?

There is an assumption that the Bill of Rights is sacrosanct, and that each amendment applies in every circumstance. But the courts have ruled that there are instances when the amendment may be rendered moot.

What if in the ensuing gun battle that some innocents had been killed? Does Gellar have any responsibility especially if she knew that the threat of violence could occur?  Now Gellar is talking about another similar event. She knows the potential outcome. Should she be allowed to still conduct the event with the likelihood of violence?

There has to be common sense with the Freedom of Speech, especially since the threat of violence with Islamic nuts is likelihood, and even more so when the intent is to rile them up to commit violence. This is not intimidation succeeding as you suggest. This is plain common sense.

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G M

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #548 on: December 15, 2015, 01:15:10 PM »
So we should cower and self censor lest the jihadis take offense?

CD,

I said that with Gellar, her actions were completely irresponsible and led to potential harm to the others with her, so it is all on her. Especially if there were participants who did not know that the objective was to in cite and invite threats.

Does Freedom of Speech allow you to directly put others into harm's way no matter what?

There is an assumption that the Bill of Rights is sacrosanct, and that each amendment applies in every circumstance. But the courts have ruled that there are instances when the amendment may be rendered moot.

What if in the ensuing gun battle that some innocents had been killed? Does Gellar have any responsibility especially if she knew that the threat of violence could occur?  Now Gellar is talking about another similar event. She knows the potential outcome. Should she be allowed to still conduct the event with the likelihood of violence?

There has to be common sense with the Freedom of Speech, especially since the threat of violence with Islamic nuts is likelihood, and even more so when the intent is to rile them up to commit violence. This is not intimidation succeeding as you suggest. This is plain common sense.



ppulatie

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Re: Donald Trump
« Reply #549 on: December 15, 2015, 01:21:25 PM »
There is a hell of a difference between cowering and self censoring, exercising Freedom of Speech, and with deliberating challenging and inviting them to attack.

Gellar did a deliberate act of provocation designed to lead to an attack. She knew what the expected response would be and planned for it.  Notice all of the people there who were armed and ready.  And the only two who died were the terrorists.

Again, what would have happened if innocents had been killed? Would Gellar also be held responsible? Should she be?

You don't and deliberately poke the bee hive...........
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