2020 Presidential election

[ccp]

"I think Trump 2024 is unrealistic.  He will hold that open for attention but there are some problems with it.  He just lost to the worst candidate ever."

I agree

Don't know who , or if anyone will emerge

Ronald Reagans are rare

The right person would have the fighting spirit of DJT but without the pathological narcissism
that led to his success AND ultimate downfall.

The game is over
I don't see the SCOTUS overturning and election - even a fraudulent one

the 600 lawyer shysters the Dems sent out are well prepared with their jurnolisters for this moment THEY produced and planned out.

we knew it was coming in a close election
it seemed though we were helpless to stop it in the Dem controlled areas

[DougMacG]

The Libertarian in name only (IMHO) party attracted more votes than the winning margin in all the crucial swing states.  Yet they lost most of their support from 2016.  1.2% of the vote, down from 3.2%, does not win elections, attention, build a movement or fund a party.

Where was the Green Party with an allegedly moderate Democrat at the top of the 'progressive' ticket?  Absent?  0.2% of the vote.  Why?  They wanted to win.  L party?  They want to lose.  Lose elections, lose liberties, lose support.

[Tordislung]

The Libertarian in name only (IMHO) party attracted more votes than the winning margin in all the crucial swing states.  Yet they lost most of their support from 2016.  1.2% of the vote, down from 3.2%, does not win elections, attention, build a movement or fund a party.

Where was the Green Party with an allegedly moderate Democrat at the top of the 'progressive' ticket?  Absent?  0.2% of the vote.  Why?  They wanted to win.  L party?  They want to lose.  Lose elections, lose liberties, lose support.

Or... They want to be free.... Free from bump stock bans, unconstitutional red flag laws... while the government helps itself to more of your rights.

Tell me, do you get upset at the Democrats for not supporting your party lines? What about the people that didn't even vote?

But you're upset with 1.2 million people because they have their own ideals, or the nerve to vote in their own interests?

Totally being respectful.... It's just that it seems that you think the Republicans can do the aforementioned, and still think that they have a right to our support?

You're DEAD wrong about that.

Also... CCP the other day... Going on about felons who had served their sentences, who now are law abiding and pay taxes... Not being able to vote.

Have you considered the possibility that maybe it's time for your consistent trampling of rights, and the ostracization of others, to die?

Many on the right, even here and now, do what I've just mentioned, and then you expect support?

Alrighty then. It's your funeral.

Edit: More correctly...the funeral of the Republican party and outdated ideals. You've had centuries to get it right.

[ccp]

if you are stating that felons , once they "paid their debt to society"

should have right to vote

I do actually tend to AGREE ;  indeed, Trump at least had signed and pushed legislation to get felons back into society and not keep them locked up . ( I am not sure I agree with this and in my opinion it is risky  but time will tell who in the end is right )

I don't agree with rich Democrats paying for their fines in return for their promise to vote fo Democrats
Naturally James is not shelling out money so people will vote for whomever, including Trump or for that matter Jorgenson

" Free from bump stock bans, unconstitutional red flag laws... while the government helps itself to more of your rights"

I am not sure who is doing this if not Democrats

Trump was working towards the opposite
If you want to talk of national debt and Trump made it worse not better - we have all posted here on this board that it is a major concern

Not sure what you mean by this:

" Have you considered the possibility that maybe it's time for your consistent trampling of rights, and the ostracization of others, to die?"

ARe saying my consistent trampling of rights to die - or ME?

" Alrighty then. It's your funeral."

let me get this straight - is this a threat?

[Tordislung]

if you are stating that felons , once they "paid their debt to society"

should have right to vote

I do actually tend to AGREE ;  indeed, Trump at least had signed and pushed legislation to get felons back into society and not keep them locked up . ( I am not sure I agree with this and in my opinion it is risky  but time will tell who in the end is right )

I don't agree with rich Democrats paying for their fines in return for their promise to vote fo Democrats
Naturally James is not shelling out money so people will vote for whomever, including Trump or for that matter Jorgenson

" Free from bump stock bans, unconstitutional red flag laws... while the government helps itself to more of your rights"

I am not sure who is doing this if not Democrats

Trump was working towards the opposite
If you want to talk of national debt and Trump made it worse not better - we have all posted here on this board that it is a major concern

Not sure what you mean by this:

" Have you considered the possibility that maybe it's time for your consistent trampling of rights, and the ostracization of others, to die?"

ARe saying my consistent trampling of rights to die - or ME?

" Alrighty then. It's your funeral."

let me get this straight - is this a threat?

Of course it's not a threat. I have no idea who you are.

Ideas whither away and die with time.

Don't be coy for dramatic effect.

Ps. You conveniently skipped the questions regarding your expectations of democrats to support you or those that didn't even vote.

Nice.

Edit II: Libertarians.... We adhere to the non aggression principle... Unlike Republicans and Democrats. Just saying.

[ccp]

".Ps. You conveniently skipped the questions regarding your expectations of democrats to support you or those that didn't even vote."

I don't know what you mean by this
I thought I addressed my views to your points

I was not trying to be dramatic
but your wording , probably not intentional is ambiguous

Democrats will not support me. - never had

I don't recall since being old enough to vote ~ 1976
any Democrat ever having opinions policies or constituents that have ever included my interests - EVER

[Tordislung]

I was not trying to be dramatic
but your wording , probably not intentional is ambiguous

Completely intentional and in line with the usage of the word as referenced here: (definitions numbers two and four - noting their example citing a political use) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/die

"\ ˈdī  \
died; dying\ ˈdī-​iŋ  \
Definition of die (Entry 1 of 2)
intransitive verb

1: to pass from physical life : EXPIRE
died at the age of 56
die young
died from his injuries
a dying tree
2a: to pass out of existence : CEASE
their anger died at these words
b: to disappear or subside gradually —often used with away, down, or out
the storm died down
3a: SINK, LANGUISH
dying from fatigue
b: to long keenly or desperately
dying to go
c: to be overwhelmed by emotion
die of embarrassment
4a: to cease functioning : STOP
the motor died
b: to end in failure
the bill died in committee
5: to become indifferent
die to worldly things
die hard
1: to be long in dying
such rumors die hard
2: to continue resistance against hopeless odds
that kind of determination dies hard
die on the vine
: to fail especially at an early stage through lack of support or enthusiasm
let the proposal die on the vine
to die for
: extremely desirable or appealing
the dessert was to die for..."

Completely intentional and within the legal parameters of usage.

Perhaps lodge a complaint with Merriam and Webster.

____________


If you dont expect support from Democrats or people who don't vote, why do you expect it from us?

[ccp]

besides voting for a candidate that has zero chance of winning (or qualifications to be president IMO)
what do you recommend I do so my rights do not get trampled by Democrats or Republicans ?

[Tordislung]

besides voting for a candidate that has zero chance of winning (or qualifications to be president IMO)
what do you recommend I do so my rights do not get trampled by Democrats or Republicans ?

Each person has to answer that for themselves.

Principles. They matter.

If someone (I love Trump's economy), betrays those principles, you can't support them.

The FIRST principle....above all others... Is the right to guarantee one's existence. Sine qua non.

Without this.... Nothing.

Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends.

[ccp]

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

[ppulatie]

Well, I have conceded the election. SCOTUS will not side with Trump, no matter what. They do not want to see the debacle to come in civil unrest if they do.

The America of my youth is gone forever. Just a distant memory now. Never to return.

The 4th Turning has shown where it is leading. A socialist America for a decade at least, then who knows?

In the meantime, I shall just hunker down and make my little carve out of life as comfortable and easy as I can, until my expiration date hits.

[Tordislung]

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment? Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

[Tordislung]

Well, I have conceded the election. SCOTUS will not side with Trump, no matter what. They do not want to see the debacle to come in civil unrest if they do.

The America of my youth is gone forever. Just a distant memory now. Never to return.

The 4th Turning has shown where it is leading. A socialist America for a decade at least, then who knows?

In the meantime, I shall just hunker down and make my little carve out of life as comfortable and easy as I can, until my expiration date hits.

That's a little dramatic.

[G M]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/joe-biden-gun-control-plan/index.html

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment? Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

[ppulatie]

Which part is dramatic?

1. Have worked in the Court system for 13 years now. Understand how the courts work. IMO, SCOTUS will do nothing, especially after Gore v Bush in 2000.

2. America of the 50's and 60's is gone forever. It will not return, no matter what one wishes.

3. The 4th Turning is a way of looking at history. Among other things, it states that when a 4th Turning occurs, society will engage in a reformation of everything. Outcomes can never be predicted. But now, we can see the handwriting on the wall.

4. My expiration date?  FYI, I am Stage 4 terminal cancer. Docs and I have managed to keeping holding it at bay, but at some point, it will begin attacking my body again. So why do I want to bother with any more fighting when I have so little time to go? Better to make the best of and enjoy the time I have left.

[Tordislung]

GM... I highlighted the pertinent portion of it for you.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/joe-biden-gun-control-plan/index.html

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment? Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

[Tordislung]

Which part is dramatic?

The parlance.

My sincere condolences.

[ppulatie]

Hey, it is life.

When one sees their own mortality coming up fast, it changes everything about how he feels and life. Just natural I think.

[G M]

Are you going to turn in your guns when Beto is Biden gun control czar?

GM... I highlighted the pertinent portion of it for you.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/joe-biden-gun-control-plan/index.html

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment? Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

[ppulatie]

My guns were lost in the Sacramento River during a boating accident. They all went overboard.

[Tordislung]

I don't blame you for not answering....because we both know that you can't....so you attempt to misdirect.

Ever watch them do the shell game in the street? Teaches you everything you need to know about people, once you catch on.

And thusly ends the Libertarian support of Trump.

Are you going to turn in your guns when Beto is Biden gun control czar?

GM... I highlighted the pertinent portion of it for you.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/joe-biden-gun-control-plan/index.html

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment? Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

[Tordislung]

My guns were lost in the Sacramento River during a boating accident. They all went overboard.

The day Crafty made me a dog... He had strict misgivings regarding this. Now it's acceptable?

Principles.
I'm glad that you have them. I do too.

[G M]

You are avoiding my question. Ready to turn in your guns?

I don't blame you for not answering....because we both know that you can't....so you attempt to misdirect.

Ever watch them do the shell game in the street? Teaches you everything you need to know about people, once you catch on.

And thusly ends the Libertarian support of Trump.

Are you going to turn in your guns when Beto is Biden gun control czar?

GM... I highlighted the pertinent portion of it for you.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/joe-biden-gun-control-plan/index.html

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment? Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

[Tordislung]

I believe I asked first.

How have the Republicans not been Beto?

In regard to the trampling the 2nd Amendment....
Republicans > Beto

Being that they already stomped on it and Beto just wants to catch up.

Am I lying?

You are avoiding my question. Ready to turn in your guns?

I don't blame you for not answering....because we both know that you can't....so you attempt to misdirect.

Ever watch them do the shell game in the street? Teaches you everything you need to know about people, once you catch on.

And thusly ends the Libertarian support of Trump.

Are you going to turn in your guns when Beto is Biden gun control czar?

GM... I highlighted the pertinent portion of it for you.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/joe-biden-gun-control-plan/index.html

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment? Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

[G M]

I'm not a republican, and I'm not happy with being sold out by either side.

I am never turning in my guns.

I believe I asked first.

How have the Republicans not been Beto?

In regard to the trampling the 2nd Amendment....
Republicans > Beto

Being that they already stomped on it and Beto just wants to catch up.

Am I lying?

You are avoiding my question. Ready to turn in your guns?

I don't blame you for not answering....because we both know that you can't....so you attempt to misdirect.

Ever watch them do the shell game in the street? Teaches you everything you need to know about people, once you catch on.

And thusly ends the Libertarian support of Trump.

Are you going to turn in your guns when Beto is Biden gun control czar?

GM... I highlighted the pertinent portion of it for you.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/joe-biden-gun-control-plan/index.html

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment? Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

[Tordislung]

Nice dodge.
Cheers.

I'm not a republican, and I'm not happy with being sold out by either side.

I am never turning in my guns.

I believe I asked first.

How have the Republicans not been Beto?

In regard to the trampling the 2nd Amendment....
Republicans > Beto

Being that they already stomped on it and Beto just wants to catch up.

Am I lying?

You are avoiding my question. Ready to turn in your guns?

I don't blame you for not answering....because we both know that you can't....so you attempt to misdirect.

Ever watch them do the shell game in the street? Teaches you everything you need to know about people, once you catch on.

And thusly ends the Libertarian support of Trump.

Are you going to turn in your guns when Beto is Biden gun control czar?

GM... I highlighted the pertinent portion of it for you.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/joe-biden-gun-control-plan/index.html

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment? Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

[G M]

It's no dodge. What wasn't clear about that?


I am NEVER turning in my guns. Can you say that?

I'm not a republican, and I'm not happy with being sold out by either side.

I am never turning in my guns.

I believe I asked first.

How have the Republicans not been Beto?

In regard to the trampling the 2nd Amendment....
Republicans > Beto

Being that they already stomped on it and Beto just wants to catch up.

Am I lying?

You are avoiding my question. Ready to turn in your guns?

I don't blame you for not answering....because we both know that you can't....so you attempt to misdirect.

Ever watch them do the shell game in the street? Teaches you everything you need to know about people, once you catch on.

And thusly ends the Libertarian support of Trump.

Are you going to turn in your guns when Beto is Biden gun control czar?

GM... I highlighted the pertinent portion of it for you.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/joe-biden-gun-control-plan/index.html

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment? Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

[ppulatie]

Don't know what CD felt about you then, and don't care.  Only know what I know, which as I age, becomes more apparent that I know nothing at all.

[Tordislung]

Don't know what CD felt about you then, and don't care.  Only know what I know, which as I age, becomes more apparent that I know nothing at all.

I like Socrates too.

 

It's no dodge. What wasn't clear about that?


I am NEVER turning in my guns. Can you say that?

I'm not a republican, and I'm not happy with being sold out by either side.

I am never turning in my guns.

I believe I asked first.

How have the Republicans not been Beto?

In regard to the trampling the 2nd Amendment....
Republicans > Beto

Being that they already stomped on it and Beto just wants to catch up.

Am I lying?

You are avoiding my question. Ready to turn in your guns?

I don't blame you for not answering....because we both know that you can't....so you attempt to misdirect.

Ever watch them do the shell game in the street? Teaches you everything you need to know about people, once you catch on.

And thusly ends the Libertarian support of Trump.

Are you going to turn in your guns when Beto is Biden gun control czar?

GM... I highlighted the pertinent portion of it for you.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/joe-biden-gun-control-plan/index.html

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment? Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

GM... Federal, state or county law enforcement (particularly the former).... That's the only way you're keeping your guns....

You refuse to answer how Republican gun control isn't gun control....and divert to "Beto."

Me? I would never own weapons. Some criminal would likely break in and steal them.

That doesn't negate that the Right is no friend to the 2nd amendment. They attack it routinely, and then pretend as though they're different from the Left. Police do that too.
"Show me your permit" from something that "shall not be infringed," while they're porting arms themselves....doesnt get more hypocritical than that.

[G M]

Don't know what CD felt about you then, and don't care.  Only know what I know, which as I age, becomes more apparent that I know nothing at all.

I like Socrates too.

 

It's no dodge. What wasn't clear about that?


I am NEVER turning in my guns. Can you say that?

I'm not a republican, and I'm not happy with being sold out by either side.

I am never turning in my guns.

I believe I asked first.

How have the Republicans not been Beto?

In regard to the trampling the 2nd Amendment....
Republicans > Beto

Being that they already stomped on it and Beto just wants to catch up.

Am I lying?

You are avoiding my question. Ready to turn in your guns?

I don't blame you for not answering....because we both know that you can't....so you attempt to misdirect.

Ever watch them do the shell game in the street? Teaches you everything you need to know about people, once you catch on.

And thusly ends the Libertarian support of Trump.

Are you going to turn in your guns when Beto is Biden gun control czar?

GM... I highlighted the pertinent portion of it for you.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/joe-biden-gun-control-plan/index.html

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment? Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

GM... Federal, state or county law enforcement (particularly the former).... That's the only way you're keeping your guns....

You refuse to answer how Republican gun control isn't gun control....and divert to "Beto."

Me? I would never own weapons. Some criminal would likely break in and steal them.

That doesn't negate that the Right is no friend to the 2nd amendment. They attack it routinely, and then pretend as though they're different from the Left. Police do that too.
"Show me your permit" from something that "shall not be infringed," while they're porting arms themselves....doesnt get more hypocritical than that.

I am retired. Aside from LEOSA creds, I am subject to the same laws as everyone else. Not that this country has the rule of law anymore.

[ccp]

"Have you considered the possibility that maybe it's time for your consistent trampling of rights, and the ostracization of others, to die?

Many on the right, even here and now, do what I've just mentioned, and then you expect support?

Alrighty then. It's your funeral."

"Me? I would never own weapons. Some criminal would likely break in and steal them."

little dramatic don't you think!

so vote libertarian and vote your principles - your funeral
BTW you did not answer my question


I asked so what should we do and I get some vague platitude about principles

and what rights do you speak of besides guns that you do not own?

[G M]

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/391163.php

[Tordislung]

"Have you considered the possibility that maybe it's time for your consistent trampling of rights, and the ostracization of others, to die?

Many on the right, even here and now, do what I've just mentioned, and then you expect support?

Alrighty then. It's your funeral."

"Me? I would never own weapons. Some criminal would likely break in and steal them."

little dramatic don't you think!

so vote libertarian and vote your principles - your funeral
BTW you did not answer my question


I asked so what should we do and I get some vague platitude about principles

and what rights do you speak of besides guns that you do not own?

There was nothing dramatic about that at all. It was a legitimate question. You disenfranchise people, expecting them to obey you, and then get upset when they obtain a voice against you, because they managed to jump whatever imagined hurdle you've placed in front of them?

I did answer you. I clearly stated....every person needs to answer that question for themselves... Or.... Do you require others to hold your hand when making decisions for yourself?

Rights? If I had weapons... I wouldn't broadcast it... Setting that aside... Whether I have them or not, is immaterial...as...the failure to exercise a right does not negate its existence.... Does it? Does the failure to exercise a right mean that you should be deprived of it, counselor?

The Right routinely strips people of their rights in terms of the 2nd amendment, they hate being called on it....enforced by police who pretend to support the 2nd amendment, when really... They support a more draconian system of government, so long as them or their cohorts (the Left), remain at the helm....

There are really only two types of people that support that.... Both Right and Left....

Those who wish to remain in a position of advantage or those who wish to be given handouts by the government.... Libertarians in general...want neither. Why would you think they'd support that?

As for answering what you or others should do? I'm not in the habit of holding people's hands.... That's the worst way to help them. You'll figure it out.

Drama? An impending 3rd civil war is pretty dramatic.

[Tordislung]

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/391163.php

The "United" States of America.... Or not.

[DougMacG]

A financial speaker once told the three laws of money:
It's better to have than not, more is better than less, and sooner is better than later.

Isn't the same true for liberty!

Unexplained is how we gain more liberty ever by ceding it now to the party Coercive Paternalism.
https://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=1467.msg106667#msg106667

Bump stock or whatever, the idea that all Republicans are same as Beto on gun rights is unserious.  Just my observation.  The idea that Republicans are no better than Dems on all liberties is unserious.  Just my view.  The idea that R appointees are no better or the difference is insignificant is unserious.  If it were true, why the furor of the Left over every appointee of the right. 

Gun rights stuff?  We have a thread for that.  https://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=95.2100
One idea would be to explain your view and persuade people like me who know less on that.  But what is the answer to the parallel with freedom of speech and falsely screaming fire in a crowded theater.  Can I have machine guns?  Can I have any size nuclear weapon and missile delivery system (bear arms)?  Does a felon have a right to loaded carry - in prison?  Don't we all draw the line of reasonable restriction somewhere?  Or is it good enough to have a party of just 1% and the rest lack principles?

We are asked why don't we call out Democrats and people who didn't vote at all for the presumed disappointing election result.  From my side I did that, I pressed the issues hard with people I know and I had no visible success.  But our T. may be right, there are more votes to go after in the middle than taking up the issues of the last 1% of Libertarians.

What I asked Tordislung earlier among other things is why are we not allies instead of opponents?  How does his side get to 51% support nationwide - from 1%?  Make coalitions with whom, not people like you find here?  How does my side get to 51%, from 48%?  If my main issue is economic freedom and economic growth, I might side with people have other first issues like pro life or support religious freedom or strong defense.  But if I support absolute gun rights or legalizing meth I won't win all remaining L. voters, and likely lose more in the middle than gained.  From the Libertarian side, if you define both major parties as your enemy but want to build coalitions and win elections, isn't that self defeating? We would do better to work together I think.

I loved the Trump economy too.  Now prepare for the dark winter Joe Biden promised.  Heat our northern homes without fuel and learn the Venezuelan diet, no meat, no vegetables, no grains, no snacks, but guaranteed to lose weight - until like our liberty, there is none left to lose.

[Tordislung]

I don't know what Trump was thinking banning guns....red flag gun laws...bump stocks....honey badger....ATF making long barreled pistols illegal...two years of House and Senate control....zero gun laws repealed...when he acts the same as Democrats.... He's got to know that's got a price tag..

[G M]

[DougMacG]

Control of the Senate is 60 votes FYI and he didn't lose anything in the election, we did.

Trump will have armed security for the rest of his life.  We won't.

[Tordislung]

Control of the Senate is 60 votes FYI and he didn't lose anything in the election, we did.

Trump will have armed security for the rest of his life.  We won't.

2016.     
House - 241/194 Republicans/Democrats
Senate - 52/46 Republicans/Democrats


Obamacare (controversial.... They still got it to pass)
2010
House - 242/193 Republicans/Democrats
Senate - 51/47 Democrats/Republicans
https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm?OrderBy=party&Sort=ASC
They could have easily done away with with several gun laws. They CHOSE not to.

The irony of people not caring if others being stripped of their arms (felons who have completed their sentences and red flag people) , now being worried of being stripped of their arms (you), has not gone unnoticed.

Trump allowed the previous to happen. It cost him support. I certainly made every Trump supporter I could, aware of it. Many of them were shocked. I had to quote Trump repeatedly, because they couldn't believe he said it - "Take the guns first....due process second." DJT - super clear..

You're right that you might not have your weapons.... You weren't worried about it when others didn't. Now you are?

Principles. They matter.

Edit: Doug, refresh my memory. What's that story about...."first they came for such and such...and I did nothing....then they came for (x) and I did nothing....then they came for me?"

There you go. That is every gun law.

[G M]

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/11/wait_just_a_minute_some_very_good_news_may_be_coming.html

Maybe.

We shall see.

[DougMacG]

Holding the Senate in January is crucial. 2022 will be equally difficult. On a brighter note, it looks like Republicans will take the House in the 2022 midterms, whatever happens in the Senate. Best case (from my point of view) they hold both coming into the 2024 election.

[DougMacG]

T - You  write nicely but are unresponsive to my questions.  That's okay.   - Doug

60 votes all Democratic in the Senate to pass Obamacre, 2010.
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00396

There are no Democrat Senators who would join hypothetic R Senators to repeal any gun "safety" law and there will NEVER be 60 Republican or Libertarian Senators if the movements are divided.

The "52" you refer to in 2016 include McCain, Murkowski, Collins, Flake and Corker.  That leaves 47 to support a good bill.  How many did you guys bring to the table?  Zero, nothin', nada.  You defeat Republican Senators in places like Montana and then wonder why good bills don't get passed and bad laws don't get repealed.

[Crafty_Dog]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/17/politics/bush-v-gore-barrett-kavanaugh-roberts-supreme-court/index.html

[DougMacG]

: "This looks to be the election that meant everything and resolved nothing."

[Tordislung]

Not answering your questions? My apologies. I thought I had.

"How many did you bring to the table?"

Zero - we dont garner enough votes to elect our own. Ask Crafty. He'll tell you, being that he's run three times... Hence... We've defeated not one of your candidates....

It appears that you have this illusion that we owe you our support. We don't. We vote our principles....

If everyone votes to jump off a cliff...and the others vote to stand in the rain and catch pneumonia, we're not obligated to support either of them.

Did Trump support gun control? He did. Four years ago...you didn't support Trump.... You have to give a little to get a little...the drug war finally being called in Oregon.... Liberals certainly caught our attention with that. The Right might try that....you know...actually supporting the freedom that you PRETEND to represent.

Hope that's clear....because BOTH of your parties shun freedom on a regular basis.

You want our support? Do something to earn it. Otherwise....let the whole thing burn. It's your parties that set it on fire anyways.

T - You  write nicely but are unresponsive to my questions.  That's okay.   - Doug

60 votes all Democratic in the Senate to pass Obamacre, 2010.
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00396

There are no Democrat Senators who would join hypothetic R Senators to repeal any gun "safety" law and there will NEVER be 60 Republican or Libertarian Senators if the movements are divided.

The "52" you refer to in 2016 include McCain, Murkowski, Collins, Flake and Corker.  That leaves 47 to support a good bill.  How many did you guys bring to the table?  Zero, nothin', nada.  You defeat Republican Senators in places like Montana and then wonder why good bills don't get passed and bad laws don't get repealed.

[DougMacG]

From unresponsive to obnoxious.  They're not 'both of my parties' and I'm not here to discuss wrecking the place or letting it burn.

[Tordislung]

From unresponsive to obnoxious.  They're not 'both of my parties' and I'm not here to discuss wrecking the place or letting it burn.

I wonder if Q regarding Honey Badger, considers the ATF's letters as of late, "obnoxious?" Courtesy of Trump... The party you seem to be on board with.

Red flag laws....when no law has been broken..   Is that "obnoxious" too?

Earn our votes. It's people just like you Doug....changing your attitude and conveying that to your leaders, that gets the job done. You've no one to blame but yourself.

You know.... Biden and more specifically Harris ...theyre going to trash this place. Time is running out.

[DougMacG]

I'm not running for anything. I don't want your vote. I don't know Q.  I don't know Honey Badger.  I didn't take any of your rights. This isn't the bump stock thread. I asked a couple of follow up questions to try to understand your view to no avail. Please direct your non answers to someone else.

[Crafty_Dog]

Tordislung:

The culture of this forum is different than the snarkfests so common elsewhere. 

https://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=961.0

[ppulatie]

Barr has ordered DOJ to look into election fraud. They can begin fully investigating on Friday, after the 10 day grace period of the election.

U.S. DOJ Elections Crime Branch Director Richard Pilger has resigned in response to Attorney General William Barr's memo authorizing an election fraud investigation (NYT). Pilger was the one who let Lois Lerner off the hook with the IRS and Tea Party fame.

Was he told to resign........or get fired?

Trump beginning to clean house. He must know he has the Dems by the balls.