Author Topic: The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial  (Read 4594 times)

Crafty_Dog

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The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial
« on: November 04, 2021, 02:37:57 PM »




WSJ
Who Is Kyle Rittenhouse and Why Is He on Trial for the Kenosha Shootings?

Rittenhouse faces homicide charges over killings of two protesters and injuries to a third in Kenosha, Wis., last year
By Akane Otani
Updated Oct. 28, 2021 5:49 pm ET

Prosecutors have accused Kyle Rittenhouse of fatally shooting two men and wounding another as they were protesting the police shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wis.

He is currently on trial facing six criminal counts regarding the incident, including first-degree intentional homicide, first-degree reckless homicide, recklessly endangering safety and possession of a dangerous weapon.


Who is Kyle Rittenhouse?

Kyle Rittenhouse, who is from Antioch, Ill., first came to public attention after videos posted on social media from Aug. 25, 2020, showed him armed with a gun and running at the site of the shooting. At one point, he can be heard in a video saying, “I just killed somebody,” according to a complaint filed by the Kenosha County District Attorney.

The teenager was charged two days later and could face life in prison if convicted of first-degree intentional homicide.

Antiracism protests took place in Kenosha, Wis., and other U.S. cities Wednesday amid anger over the police shooting of Jacob Blake. Authorities identified the officer who shot Blake in Kenosha on Sunday as police arrested a 17-year-old in connection with a deadly shooting during protests there on Tuesday. Photo: Alex Wroblewski for The Wall Street Journal

Lawyers for Mr. Rittenhouse have said that his actions were self-defense against angry protesters. Laster year, attorney John Pierce said on Twitter that the teen was “a Minuteman protecting his community when the government would not.”

“More American men should fulfill their duty,” said Mr. Pierce. “He is a shining example of the American fighting spirit.”


What can we expect from the trial?

Prosecutors will have to overcome a longstanding law in Wisconsin that makes it more difficult than in many other states to convict someone who claims self-defense.

In Wisconsin, a defendant needs only to present some evidence of self-defense in order to impose the burden of proof on the prosecution to negate that claim beyond a reasonable doubt, said Daniel Blinka, a former prosecutor and professor at Marquette University Law School in Milwaukee.

About 17 other states have similar laws, according to research by the National Conference of State Legislatures. In most states, the defendant has to prove their actions were reasonable.

“The self-defense provisions in Wisconsin clearly favor the defense,” said Joshua Dressler, a professor emeritus at Ohio State University’s law school and author of a widely used textbook on criminal law.

Why was Mr. Rittenhouse in Kenosha, and what happened on the night of Aug. 25, 2020?

In a video taken by Richard McGinniss, a journalist with the Daily Caller, Mr. Rittenhouse is seen with a rifle and a medic kit, saying he is out to protect local businesses. At that point, Kenosha had experienced violent unrest for two nights that left businesses burned, looted and damaged in response to a video that showed police shooting Mr. Blake in the back seven times.

“People are getting injured, and our job is to protect this business, and part of my job is to also help people,” Mr. Rittenhouse said in the video. “If there’s somebody hurt, I’m running into harm’s way. That’s why I have my rifle, because I need to protect myself, but I also have my med kit.” Mr. McGinniss later witnessed Mr. Rittenhouse shooting and killing Joseph Rosenbaum, 36, according to a complaint filed by the Kenosha County District Attorney last year. Mr. McGinniss didn’t respond to requests for comment.

In another video posted to social media, a young man who appears to be Mr. Rittenhouse is seen with a group of men who the videographer says are part of a local militia out to protect businesses from looters. Some of the men stand on a roof with guns.

The complaint filed by prosecutors against Mr. Rittenhouse details what can be seen in video footage along with eyewitness accounts. It alleges that Mr. Rosenbaum tried to engage the teen, who ran away. Mr. Rosenbaum followed. According to the complaint, at some point, Mr. Rosenbaum threw a plastic bag at Mr. Rittenhouse but didn’t hit him. The complaint cites a witness who said he saw Mr. Rittenhouse fire three rounds at Mr. Rosenbaum before he was killed.

At that point, the complaint, citing video, alleges that Mr. Rittenhouse made a phone call in which he said, “I just killed somebody.”

Prosecutors cite another video showing Mr. Rittenhouse running, as people yell about the shooting and chase him. Mr. Rittenhouse trips and falls to the ground, firing at Anthony Huber, who is holding a skateboard and is trying to grab Mr. Rittenhouse’s gun, the complaint alleges. The complaint said Mr. Huber was killed.

Mr. Rittenhouse also fired upon an approaching Gaige Grosskreutz, who was hit in the right arm, the complaint alleges. Mr. Grosskreutz appeared to be holding a handgun as he was shot. A lawyer for Mr. Grosskreutz didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.


How did the police respond?

In the video of the shooting, after Mr. Rittenhouse allegedly shot Mr. Huber, the teenager can be seen holding a long gun with his arms raised walking toward a police car. Police didn’t appear to stop him, although people in the background can be heard shouting that he just shot someone.

He was later arrested in his hometown by Antioch police.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin and the national ACLU called for the immediate resignation of Kenosha Police Chief Daniel Miskinis and Kenosha County Sheriff David Beth over their response to the shooting.

In response to reporters asking why police didn’t stop Mr. Rittenhouse at the scene, Mr. Beth said: “There’s screaming, there’s hollering, there’s chanting, there’s a squad car running…and there are people running all over the place, so that absolutely…I can picture all kinds of reasons I wouldn’t be focusing on someone doing that,” Mr. Beth said, adding that he wasn’t personally there at the time of the shooting.

Mr. Miskinis has been criticized by protesters and civil-rights groups over comments he has made, including a remark that armed civilians were out to “exercise their constitutional right and to potentially protect property,” and that he wouldn’t comment on the video of Mr. Blake’s shooting because it was just a “snippet of a very large situation.”

Activists have also condemned the police department over videos released on social media that showed Kenosha police officers offering water to a group of men, some of whom were armed, and thanking them. “We appreciate you guys, we really do,” one of the officers can be heard saying. A young man who appears to be Mr. Rittenhouse is with that group.

In response to the criticism, Mr. Miskinis said at a news conference that his officers “would toss a water to anybody.”

===============================================


Kyle Rittenhouse Shooting Trial to Focus on Reasonableness, Self-Defense

Jury selection to begin Monday over killings of two protesters and injury of a third in Kenosha, Wis., last year
Kyle Rittenhouse, now 18 years old, has pleaded not guilty to charges of homicide.

PHOTO: MARK HERTZBERG/ZUMA PRESS
By Joe Barrett
Updated Oct. 28, 2021 10:34 am ET

Prosecutors in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse, the teenager who killed two people and injured a third during unrest in Kenosha, Wis., last year, will have to overcome a longstanding law in Wisconsin that makes it more difficult than in many other states to convict someone who claims self-defense.

Jury selection is set to begin Monday in Mr. Rittenhouse’s trial on charges including first-degree intentional homicide, first-degree reckless homicide and attempted first-degree intentional homicide. Mr. Rittenhouse, now 18, has pleaded not guilty and is free on $2 million bail.

The killings, which took place in August 2020 during protests and violent unrest following the police shooting of Jacob Blake, who is Black, by a white police officer, became politically polarizing. Mr. Rittenhouse, who is from nearby Antioch, Ill., gained a substantial following of right-wing supporters, with many rushing to donate money to his legal defense and hailing him as a patriot for trying to defend businesses. Many on the left condemned his decision to carry an AR-15-style firearm into the chaotic situation two days after Mr. Blake was shot multiple times, calling it a provocation that led to the shootings.

Legal scholars say Wisconsin laws that tilt the burden of proof in self-defense cases from the accused to the prosecution could be critical in the outcome of the case.

“What is really terribly difficult for the state is that under Wisconsin law the prosecutor will have the burden of negating self-defense, beyond a reasonable doubt. And to negate anything is difficult, to negate it beyond a reasonable doubt is extraordinary,” said Daniel Blinka, a former prosecutor and professor at Marquette University Law School in Milwaukee.

In Wisconsin, a defendant needs only to present some evidence of self-defense in order to impose the burden of proof on the prosecution to negate that claim beyond a reasonable doubt, Mr. Blinka said. About 17 other states have similar laws, according to research by the National Conference of State Legislatures. In most states, the defendant has to prove their actions were reasonable.

“The self-defense provisions in Wisconsin clearly favor the defense,” said Joshua Dressler, a professor emeritus at Ohio State University’s law school and author of a widely used textbook on criminal law.

Mr. Blake’s shooting, coming at the end of a summer of tension between police and protesters that began with the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis, sparked two nights of protest that devolved into looting and arson. Mr. Rittenhouse, then 17, joined a number of armed individuals who came to defend businesses the following night.

In widely seen videos of the shootings and according to the criminal complaint, Mr. Rittenhouse shot and killed Joseph Rosenbaum late on the night of Aug. 25 in a parking lot. The shooting occurred as Mr. Rosenbaum appeared to reach for Mr. Rittenhouse’s gun after Mr. Rittenhouse stopped to face him, according to a witness quoted in the criminal complaint.

Mr. Rittenhouse later was seen in video running down a street pursued by several people. After stumbling and falling to the pavement, he shot and killed Anthony Huber moments after Mr. Huber had struck Mr. Rittenhouse with a skateboard and reached for Mr. Rittenhouse’s gun, according to the video and the criminal complaint.

Mr. Rittenhouse also shot and injured Gaige Grosskreutz, who approached Mr. Rittenhouse with what appeared in the video to be a handgun. Mr. Grosskreutz initially raised his hands, but is shown in the video lowering them and taking steps toward or slightly to the side of Mr. Rittenhouse when he was shot.

Mr. Rittenhouse then got up and approached several emergency response vehicles and a police car heading toward the scene, with his arms raised. The officers allowed Mr. Rittenhouse to pass and he proceeded home to Illinois, where he eventually turned himself in.

Mr. Blinka said that prosecutors would likely aim to have the jury focus on each encounter separately to assess the reasonableness each time Mr. Rittenhouse pulled the trigger, while the defense will try to explain the entire incident as a sequence of events that are all connected.

Other elements that could come into play are a video of Mr. Rittenhouse taken shortly before the killings, in which he discusses shooting shoplifters, and the question of whether as a minor he could legally own or openly carry what the criminal complaint identifies as a “Smith & Wesson AR-15 style .223 rifle.”

Kenosha County Circuit Judge Bruce Schroeder said in September that he would rule later on whether the video would be allowed, but noted that he was disinclined to do so since the two scenarios are different. Judge Schroeder earlier this month denied a defense motion to drop the weapons charge against Mr. Rittenhouse on grounds that he was entitled to carry the weapon under state hunting laws, but said he would consider it further at a later time.

In a hearing Tuesday, Judge Schroeder said that the defense could refer to men killed by Mr. Rittenhouse as rioters or looters if that is proved during the course of the trial, while the prosecution isn’t to use the term victim for either man because the word is loaded.

Ultimately, the case will be decided by the jury based on their assessment of the reasonableness of Mr. Rittenhouse’s actions, said Cecelia Klingele, an associate professor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison Law School.

“Our assessments of what is reasonable are very much intertwined with the way we all look at the world. And that is, in many ways, intertwined with some of the larger politics of this moment,” she said. “This is why we have juries. They’re supposed to reflect community norms around reasonable behavior.”

===========================================

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/juliorosas/2021/10/27/one-of-the-big-lies-in-the-kyle-rittenhouse-case-n2598110?fbclid=IwAR3keL27JGu82eU8xH9EcaNijDdMcnzn85e5KCqeUqIeE5I-O8kcBrQGoj8

=========================================

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/juliorosas/2021/10/27/kenosha-judge-tears-into-kyle-rittenhouse-prosecutors-for-downplaying-rioters-destructive-acts-n2598102?fbclid=IwAR2xt0peAltdn3p9GbThASY8qgidFN0yJ3qf6i0ArbCOj2Lvoj3gh3G9FeQ

=======================================

Interview with Kyle's lawyer from several months ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2RJ-iv2VyQ

=====================================

https://www.omahaoutdoors.com/blog/kyle-rittenhouse-acted-in-lawful-self-defense-in-kenosha/?fbclid=IwAR2ycZnthukGUKMRLGIwLtr3zwuC7i2qI_fF22KCCm69Zv26su7MJZoCvQ8

===============================

WI Self Defense Statute:

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/iii/48?fbclid=IwAR11xDmVCdjzsQDnajkCMZ9ltmrypPpSgh8Ok6qSZlGtuYFf_YGc7qyZPRU

===================================

11 minute clip assembled by Kyle's team

https://vimeo.com/461063053?fbclid=IwAR2kBHvS0pXxED4tPSOfg1PcGJ_pTXF3IGESYSpgNRtp8yzhk1FMmA7vOu8

=======================================

https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2020/09/08/kyle-rittenhouse-fire-extinguisher/?fbclid=IwAR3CCu4IgSV3OnyRoqSxJVYzrxRBqefq66oEmv8uaGeFrSQWeP-97oGIfuI

============================================

https://www.lakemchenryscanner.com/2020/10/13/lake-county-prosecutors-announce-they-will-not-file-charges-against-kyle-rittenhouse/?fbclid=IwAR3aPzTaBuJFClR9x5BL1ROXygQHr3ZLk9PTx-AFWyRhVsWu0afyzk2h5oA

================================

Shocked! Absolutely shocked that this is coming out only now!

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/victoria-taft/2021/11/02/fbi-spy-video-shows-kyle-rittenhouse-being-chased-down-at-kenosha-riot-which-explains-why-youve-never-seen-it-n1529169?h=AT332xIqcvnMk7ypn5AHY5rCyWXo2JsN1thS1Annflts4H85PpxA3qnbngcu6cCiGWQmy5FgGYpR-7tnevTfdsWsvH-osLNHfMLNK34230UaKcsi6ebgEyQxTlwpKQU8iMz39Y1vwF3hBfPvf7XOarJV_b-zJ6G8leqZJVQE9DKwjzFmXMGe4KrIVZVu3KxMGwcmNdlllYLyIIB5pakuTfWD4hu8HI1DH_PJKjfrLkRcKafzW-N7STtqzJetxibwZPLnpWFHdvjmxOjjTlDFkoFq6Z8inRZPY06mKg&fbclid=IwAR0ELA00zyw8se5KTmUTMJk2nIEl-IjBGBceS9LxzTZaz7k3n-9DCF-f_Rw

=========================

Basis for challenging the firearms charge:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/246?fbclid=IwAR1yAlGkq9BaUSSUxP-VMgxE1NQ3Vsv_D-6gEZht5YJb6d9pl22rYFDaV-U

=============================

According to Jack Posobiec:

The mayor who let Kenosha burn, the DA, and the lead detective in the Kyle Rittenhouse case are all members of the same family (Antaramian).

=============================================

27 minutes of quality analysis here from attorney Branca:

https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/11/rittenhouse-trial-day-1-defense-dominates-opening-statements-first-witness-testimony/

« Last Edit: November 04, 2021, 03:27:41 PM by Crafty_Dog »

ccp

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Chasing a person carrying a high powered rifle?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2021, 02:51:49 PM »
and attack with something that looked like a jug of some fluid

 :-o :-o :-o




Crafty_Dog

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Re: The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2021, 08:46:43 PM »

Crafty_Dog

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G M

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« Last Edit: November 07, 2021, 01:06:14 PM by G M »

Crafty_Dog

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G M

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They're not after Kyle Rittenhouse
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2021, 02:18:17 PM »
They're not after Kyle Rittenhouse.

They're after your right to lawfully defend yourself against violent communist mobs.


ccp

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jurors are targets of intimidation.
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2021, 06:56:52 AM »

G M

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Re: jurors are targets of intimidation.
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2021, 07:13:59 AM »


Crafty_Dog

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ccp

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Dem lawyers stretching brains
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2021, 01:52:55 PM »
trying to damage defense's case:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/greys-anatomy-er-fightmaster-nonbinary-164639458.html

oh they are so right
he is a racist murdering thug

unlike the rioters who are heroes fighting for a noble just cause - reparations

gotta keep 'em voting for the dems

race race race race

ccp

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now the Judge is a 'racist"
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2021, 07:43:00 AM »
"https://www.yahoo.com/news/not-good-judge-kyle-rittenhouse-021313125.html"

libs don't get the judge they can control

so start the intimidation by calling him

RACIST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There 100 % card in the hole
  ALWAYS

problem for them is we are not going to take this garbage and cower anymore



ccp

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second post : obama appointed judge orders FBI to cease
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2021, 08:01:26 AM »
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/victoria-taft/2021/11/11/breaking-judge-orders-fbi-to-stop-search-of-project-veritas-founder-okeefes-phone-following-raid-n1532173

shocking

even an Obamster judge
calls this out

Wray et al, involved in this need to be first on the "need fire list"
as soon as Repubs get back into the driver's seat ( if we do)

 

Crafty_Dog

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Day 8
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2021, 12:32:30 PM »
Whoa!

But is this the right thread for that?

==============================

Rittenhouse Trial Day 8: Prosecution’s Last Desperate Lunge for Evidence of Guilt (legalinsurrection.com)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2021, 12:36:34 PM by Crafty_Dog »




Crafty_Dog

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Re: The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2021, 07:55:36 AM »
I've been rather amazed in a number of recent conversations to see how many people are hoping for some sort of conviction.

G M

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Re: The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2021, 07:59:27 AM »
I've been rather amazed in a number of recent conversations to see how many people are hoping for some sort of conviction.

This never should have gone to trial. The scumbags wanting him convicted better realize that if he is, that pushes much closer a fully kinetic CW2.

ccp

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Re: The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2021, 10:36:08 AM »
as a non lawyer I don't understand how newer lesser charges can be slipped into the trial

at the end


Crafty_Dog

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Re: The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2021, 10:50:00 AM »
With my only legal education in this being over 40 years ago that applies to me as well haha.

ccp

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Dershowitz on Newsmax
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2021, 11:30:10 AM »

G M

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Re: The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2021, 11:43:27 AM »
With my only legal education in this being over 40 years ago that applies to me as well haha.

Like the constitution, the legal process is whatever the left wants it to be, at any given moment.

G M

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The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial: What guilty means
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2021, 11:53:37 AM »
If Kyle is guilty, then lawful self defense is no longer possible in this country. The left thinks they wants this, as most are so intellectually challenged and/or propagandized that they don’t understand the end result of this policy shift in the FUSA.

If lawful armed self defense is no longer possible, then unlawful armed offense is all the right has left to protect themselves and others.

DougMacG

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Re: The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2021, 05:11:29 AM »
as a non lawyer I don't understand how newer lesser charges can be slipped into the trial

at the end

Also a non lawyer, especially untrained in Wisconsin law. I have not seen the video nor anything else beyond headlines of the trial. 

 Seems to me, if what comes through at trial describes the committing of a lesser charge, the judge has a role to steer the jury and the trial to justice.

My question if I was a juror, is it reasonable to think young Kyle could have just walked away unharmed, or was self defense his only option?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 05:14:49 AM by DougMacG »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2021, 06:48:29 AM »
You can find the video from Kyle's team earlier in the thread.  VERY strong!

Also see the Reports of each day (Day 1, Day 2, etc) in this thread-- quality work from an attorney expert in these matters.

=========

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/rittenhouse-judge-signals-he-may-inform-the-jury-of-narrow-gun-law-exemptions/ar-AAQF5M9?cvid=b0bfe39f2adf4c2a9cfe6c236a9e33a9&ocid=winp1taskbar

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/judge-in-kyle-rittenhouse-case-receives-threatening-emails




DougMacG

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Re: The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2021, 09:48:40 AM »
You can find the video from Kyle's team earlier in the thread.  VERY strong!   ...

https://vimeo.com/461063053

Thank you.  Very helpful. 

Once again, I am amazed by the lack of outrage about everything else that was happening (especially in the video) in Kenosha, and similarly in Minneapolis, Seattle and Portland.

Dismissal of the misdemeanor charge seems minor, but whether his presence at the scene (armed) was legal or already unlawful ties into interpretation of what happened next.  Interesting point that his first attacker probably thought he was the other guy who put out the dumpster fire.  Not really relevant to innocence or guilt but helps explain what was happening.

The question now just comes down to - jury intimidation.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2021, 10:00:51 AM by DougMacG »

G M

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Before Kyle
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2021, 06:59:10 PM »

DougMacG

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Re: The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2021, 09:37:54 PM »
Divided America based on fake news.  I listened to liberal radio on my way home and heard some insights (and lies) from the other point of view.

They said, a guy he shot who he said would have taken his gun and killed him was far away from him, and therefore couldn't have.  That's not what I saw.

They they said he testified he tried to turn himself into police, they called it "another lie", he didn't turn himself in until the next day.  But in the video he clearly tried to flag down police and they refused and told him to get out of the way.

Two sets of 'news'.  Two sets of conclusions.  Just like Michael Brown, "hands up, don't shoot", never happened.  America divides because people and media especially are intentionally dividing us.

A jury can sort this out but it won't be an impartial jury.  No way they don't know the National Guard is being called out for the verdict, even though they were never called out for the violence. 

G M

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Re: The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2021, 09:40:44 PM »
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/jury-threatening-begins-judge-schroeder-says-someone-tries-doxx-jury-kyle-rittenhouse-trial-video/

Divided America based on fake news.  I listened to liberal radio on my way home and heard some insights (and lies) from the other point of view.

They said, a guy he shot who he said would have taken his gun and killed him was far away from him, and therefore couldn't have.  That's not what I saw.

They they said he testified he tried to turn himself into police, they called it "another lie", he didn't turn himself in until the next day.  But in the video he clearly tried to flag down police and they refused and told him to get out of the way.

Two sets of 'news'.  Two sets of conclusions.  Just like Michael Brown, "hands up, don't shoot", never happened.  America divides because people and media especially are intentionally dividing us.

A jury can sort this out but it won't be an impartial jury.  No way they don't know the National Guard is being called out for the verdict, even though they were never called out for the violence.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2021, 09:20:29 AM »
Issues from before the first shot was fired:

The presumption that underlies the other side of the reporting is that we are better off to allow Antifa, BLM etc. to burn and terrorize than for anyone other than law enforcement to try to stop the crime or help the victims, because standing up to them is, in itself, provocative and escalates the violence.  His mere presence and desire to help defend property and help victims of the crimes violently underway is in itself wrong, in their view.

Kenosha happened in the context of 1600 buildings burned in Minneapolis including federal buildings and police headquarters.  Law enforcement, federal, state and local, did not stop that.  Law enforcement was not stopping this.  Rittenhouse came in with intent to help defend strangers and their property.  Is that wrong?  Is that illegal?  If it is, then everyone will know no one will come to help you when it is you and your property under siege.  In a time of escalating mob violence coupled with defund and disarm the police movements, that question takes on escalating significance.


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Re: The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial - Jury deliberates
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2021, 11:57:26 AM »
Before the jury speaks, what say people here?

Key info from Crafty's first post in the thread:
Wisconsin self defense statute:
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/iii/48   Short and important to read.

Defense video:
https://vimeo.com/461063053   Remove the defense bias and watch what happened in each incident.

Ask for each of three incidents,
Did he engages in "unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him"?
Did he reasonably believe he was "in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm", in each instance?

'Victim 1' was lunging for Rittenhouse's gun when shot.
Were 4 shots needed to stop the threat?  I don't know.  Is it reasonable for him to believe the answer is yes?

He was struck, kicked and under attack with the 2nd 'victim' (again) trying to take his gun when shot.

The 3rd 'victim' had a gun pointed at him when he shot.

If you believe his actions were all lawful before the first shot was fired, is it reasonable to call his actions self defense?

Were shots 2, 3, and 4 justified, or did the first shot remove the threat?

What is reasonable self defense in a mob attack?  Rittenhouse obviously had a fear of the rest of the mob but that may not be relevant to continue to shoot 'victim 1' IF the first shot had him falling. The 4 shots to be in rapid fire and I would assume he is responsible for every pull of the trigger, even in the passion of the moment.

How should the jury decide?  What will they decide?

G M

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Re: The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial - Jury deliberates
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2021, 02:35:51 PM »
This is how it should end:

https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/090/632/161/original/1d7d449255b7621b.jpeg



Back when this was still America, and we had the rule of law, multiple assailants=justifiable deadly force. This never should have gone to trial.

I’m not optimistic.

Before the jury speaks, what say people here?

Key info from Crafty's first post in the thread:
Wisconsin self defense statute:
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/iii/48   Short and important to read.

Defense video:
https://vimeo.com/461063053   Remove the defense bias and watch what happened in each incident.

Ask for each of three incidents,
Did he engages in "unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him"?
Did he reasonably believe he was "in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm", in each instance?

'Victim 1' was lunging for Rittenhouse's gun when shot.
Were 4 shots needed to stop the threat?  I don't know.  Is it reasonable for him to believe the answer is yes?

He was struck, kicked and under attack with the 2nd 'victim' (again) trying to take his gun when shot.

The 3rd 'victim' had a gun pointed at him when he shot.

If you believe his actions were all lawful before the first shot was fired, is it reasonable to call his actions self defense?

Were shots 2, 3, and 4 justified, or did the first shot remove the threat?

What is reasonable self defense in a mob attack?  Rittenhouse obviously had a fear of the rest of the mob but that may not be relevant to continue to shoot 'victim 1' IF the first shot had him falling. The 4 shots to be in rapid fire and I would assume he is responsible for every pull of the trigger, even in the passion of the moment.

How should the jury decide?  What will they decide?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2021, 02:43:16 PM by G M »

DougMacG

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Re: The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial - Jury deliberates
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2021, 03:29:14 PM »
"multiple assailants=justifiable deadly force. "

Good point about multiple assailants, raises the bar on what is a reasonable response. Walking away was never an option once these attacks were in process.  Very reasonable to believe he would have suffered "great bodily harm" as defined in the statute.  Using the weapon he had in his hand was his only option.  Threatening to shoot did not stop these three.  Very reasonable to believe he would have suffered same or worse if he had given up his gun to an attacker.  Contrary to some early reporting, everyone he shot was attacking him, and noted in the film, there were others who stopped attacking him he did not shoot.

All that said, I see no chance this ends with not guilty on all charges.

G M

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Crafty_Dog

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Re: The Kyle Rittenhouse Trial
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2021, 07:35:57 AM »
Judge placed under police protection.