Fire Hydrant of Freedom
Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities => Politics & Religion => Topic started by: Crafty_Dog on December 28, 2024, 04:34:01 AM
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Seems like this needs to be a thread:
https://www.latintimes.com/trump-says-us-needs-control-greenland-national-security-freedom-throughout-world-570142
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Robert O'Brien:
"Denmark's a wonderful place. Copenhagen's a wonderful city. But they have got to do their part. They can't have this vast empire and then not defend it and leave it to the U.S. to do it. So we're going to either buy it, they're going to defend it, or they can pay us to defend it," he said. "Or if they don't want to do either of those things, they can let us buy Greenland from, and Greenland can become part of Alaska. I mean, the native people in Greenland are very closely related to the people of Alaska, and we will make it a part of Alaska."
Fox News
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Pithily stated.
I would add that Denmark is a part of NATO. I wonder what % of GDP they are spending on military?
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Truman offered to buy Greenland in '46
This site has some cool stuff about Greenland and Iceland and Chinese attempt at penetration there as well:
https://www.clingendael.org/pub/2020/presence-before-power/4-greenland-what-is-china-doing-there-and-why/
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https://www.wita.org/atp-research/china-in-greenland-companies-governments-and-hidden-intentions/#:~:text=Chinese%20companies%2C%20whether%20state-owned%20or%20private%2C%20regard%20Greenland,recently%20attracted%20wide%20attention%20among%20observers%20and%20policymakers.
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Pithily stated.
I would add that Denmark is a part of NATO. I wonder what % of GDP they are spending on military?
My understanding was less than 2%. This list says 2%. Most certainly they have fallen below that over the years and are in violation. 2% of Denmark GDP is not going to defend Greenland. If China is already sinking its hooks into it, the US purchase or US control is a must.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures
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I do recall Denmark for a long time was the ONLY European country that paid us back for WW 2 debt.
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Denmark May Regret Not Selling Greenland to Trump
How long will the Danes even own it?
James Freeman
Jan. 3, 2025 8:41 pm ET
WSJ
Danish politicians may be struggling to understand the art of the deal. Yes, real estate is about location, location and location. But for any kind of negotiation, timing is important too. Voters in Denmark may soon be asking why political leaders didn’t cut a deal with President Donald Trump when they had the chance during his first term. That’s when Mr. Trump broached the idea of the United States purchasing Greenland, a Danish territory and former colony. Mr. Trump recently raised the issue again as he prepares for his second term.
Now the Danes could end up getting bupkis for the chilly islands—no check from Uncle Sam and no control over Greenland. Reuters reports from Copenhagen:
Greenland’s Prime Minister Mute Egede emphasised his desire to pursue independence from Denmark, its former colonial ruler, during his New Year speech, marking a significant change in the rhetoric surrounding the Arctic island’s future.
Egede’s speech, which comes on the heels of comments by U.S. President-elect Donald Trump expressing his wish for “ownership and control” of Greenland, also expressed a desire to strengthen Greenland’s cooperation with other countries.
“It is about time that we ourselves take a step and shape our future, also with regard to who we will cooperate closely with, and who our trading partners will be,” he said…
“It is now time for our country to take the next step. Like other countries in the world, we must work to remove the obstacles to cooperation – which we can describe as the shackles of colonialism – and move forward,” he said.
This doesn’t mean that Mr. Egede welcomes a U.S. acquisition. Kathryn Armstrong reported for the BBC after the most recent Trump declaration of interest last month:
Greenland has once again said it is not for sale after US President-elect Donald Trump said he wanted to take control of the territory.
“Greenland belongs to the people of Greenland,” its prime minister said on Monday, a day after Trump repeated comments about the Arctic island that he first made several years ago.
But if Greenland is rapidly moving toward a split with Denmark, it will likely be seeking a partner to offer security, as well as new commercial opportunities. The BBC report quoted Mr. Egede:
“We must not lose our long struggle for freedom. However, we must continue to be open to co-operation and trade with the whole world, especially with our neighbours,” he said.
As for Mr. Egede’s new call for independence, Ashleigh Fields reports for the Hill:
His New Year’s Day speech emphasized the autonomous territory’s developments, highlighting its opening of an international airport as a global pathway to change.
“In the coming summer, it will now be possible to reach us directly from other countries, without first traveling via Denmark, it will therefore be possible for us to develop and govern our country more independently,” he added.
He declared that new airports in Ilulissat and Qaqortoq were the next step in a process for an “improved” and “flexible” infrastructure that could bolster tourism and trade.
Denmark may be in for a bad case of non-seller’s remorse. Sure, “fly me to Ilulissat” is not something you hear every day. But with travel options expanding the sky’s the limit. And recent history suggests Greenland may be in for a Trump bump.
Alyssa Newcomb reported for NBC in 2019:
As far as vacation destinations go, Greenland probably hasn’t been at the top of people’s lists — but new evidence shows that may be changing.
The world’s largest island was thrust into the spotlight last week after President Donald Trump said he would be interested in buying the country, which is an autonomous Danish territory. Denmark’s Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said the idea of buying another country in 2019 is “absurd.” That prompted Trump to cancel his state visit to Denmark on Sept. 2.
Greenland’s tourism board has used the attention to remind Americans that the country is open for business and eager to host tourists. Travel websites are already noticing an increase in searches from people figuring out what it would cost to visit Greenland.
Hayley Berg, an economist at travel booking website Hopper, told NBC News that there has been a 337 percent spike in interest coming from the United States ever since Greenland started making headlines last week.
If travel expands, Americans may soon be cherishing memories of exotic getaways and saying, “We’ll always have Qaqortoq.”
***
James Freeman is the co-author of “The Cost: Trump, China and American Revival” and also the co-author of “Borrowed Time: Two Centuries of Booms, Busts and Bailouts at Citi.”
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could be here :
"come see" aurora borealis ----
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuuk
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/01/03/greenlands-leader-wants-independence-from-denmark/
Population of 50K + not enough to counter the tide of illegal Democrat recruits.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/01/03/greenlands-leader-wants-independence-from-denmark/
Population of 50K + not enough to counter the tide of illegal Democrat recruits.
It's pretty hard to imagine Greenland paying for it's own defense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Greenland
A pretty reasonable purchase price could eliminate taxes for them for generations. The Denmark thing seems like the last vestige of European colonialism. Combining them with Alaska seems a little distant, although Elon could throw in broadband to bridge the gap.
If they become American, they will of course want mass transit and EV charger entitlements.
I wonder if they fear China as much as we do or should...
https://www.politico.eu/article/china-arctic-greenland-united-states/
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https://www.thefp.com/p/john-bolton-trump-greenland-denmark-casino?utm_campaign=260347&utm_source=cross-post&r=2ydk9a&utm_medium=email
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Interesting.
Too bad Bolton has burned bridges to a crisp.
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He is so anti-Trump it is hard to learn anything from him.
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https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2025/01/08/greenland-belongs-to-the-eu-and-will-resist-attack-france-warns-trump/
Is India part of Britain? Is South Africa part of Netherlands?
Who provides the security for Greenland, Denmark?
Europe doesn't even provide the security for Europe.
France, without US support, would by now be called West Germany.
But they're ready to fight us now...
Now that Europe declares itself a hostile power, doesn't the Monroe Doctrine apply?
Hey France, your threat is from the East. Send troops to Donbas.
Note who got the conversation started. And he's only been in office zero days.
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as I learned the hard way - the long stated truth - everyone has a price - even Denmark
if EU was so worried about Greenland why the heck have they not invested there.
anyone see DT jr.'s repeated report on his trip to Greenland on Newsmax and later Hannity last night.
he states the Danes will not let Greenland take advantage of their resources.
and most Greenlanders would like to be under US and get developed.
interesting explorer, others too, who led expeditions to Greenland - a character out of hollywood casting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Freuchen
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https://www.newsmax.com/world/globaltalk/greenland-denmark-trump-us-egede-arctic-minerals/2025/01/10/id/1194612/
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Notable & Quotable: ‘Republican Hipster’ on Greenland
‘Like so much real estate, Greenland’s value is its location: A lot of missile shots coming toward North America from Russia would fly right over it, or at least near it.’
Jan. 14, 2025 4:44 pm ET
After news broke that the president-elect was serious about negotiating to purchase the Danish-controlled island in the North Atlantic, one Republican hipster made sure everyone around him knew that he wanted to annex Greenland way before Trump made it mainstream.
John J. Miller writing in Canada’s National Post, May 16, 2001:
The United States should buy Greenland. It wouldn’t be the first time the United States acquired a big chunk of territory for a price. In 1867, it bought Alaska from Russia for US$7.2-million. Critics slammed the sale as “Seward’s Folly,” after Secretary of State William Seward, who negotiated the deal. But who would think twice about doing it again? . . .
It’s worth remembering that one of the biggest missed opportunities in U.S. history was the failure to buy Cuba from Spain in the 1850s. It might have happened, but for the objections of anti-slavery politicians, who feared Cuba’s admission to the Union as a slave state would have strengthened the South just before the Civil War. Yet it’s hard to believe the war would not have arrived anyway, or that its outcome would have changed. The real difference would have come later: Fidel Castro wouldn’t be the only remaining dictator in the Western Hemisphere. Instead, he’d be a Democratic senator drafting health care legislation with Ted Kennedy. . . .
Like so much real estate, Greenland’s value is its location: A lot of missile shots coming toward North America from Russia would fly right over it, or at least near it. The Pentagon understandably will want to chart their precise trajectories so its anti-ballistic missiles might blow them to pieces.
And if this global warming business turns out to be worse than expected, at least Americans will have somewhere to live.
Copyright ©2025 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. 87990cbe856818d5eddac44c7b1cdeb8
Appeared in the January 15, 2025, print edition as 'Notable & Quotable: ‘Republican Hipster’'.
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/crisis-insider-says-trump-threw-unswerving-ally-into-complete-flux-with-a-call/ar-AA1xrwHX?ocid=hpmsn&pc=DCTE&cvid=e631495116494bf78c1a77c1ffba3d94&ei=23
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https://steelcutter.substack.com/p/on-purchasing-greenland
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Defense spending. Denmark will invest 14.6 billion kroner ($2 billion) to boost its military capabilities in the Arctic, Danish Defense Minister Troels Lund Poulsen said, following U.S. President Donald Trump’s comments on acquiring Greenland. According to Poulsen, the money will be used to buy three new Arctic warships and two long-range drones.
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-s-horrendous-phone-call-with-danish-pm-over-greenland-report/ar-AA1xPfhV?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=a0b4b8a5120a455186ac2fd285c6ac97&ei=14
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-s-greenland-threats-reportedly-have-nato-ready-to-make-an-offer/ar-AA1ycg8y?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=9265ec9c3b874ad7843ffed87b1e8b02&ei=13
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(11) DENMARK TO ALLOW U.S. EXPANSION IN GREENLAND: Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen told European media yesterday that she was open to America expanding its military footprint in Greenland to secure the Arctic. Immediately following Frederiksen’s remarks, she attended an EU Council meeting where Polish President Donald Tusk said, "We have to do everything to avoid this totally unnecessary and stupid tariff war or trade war," to include improving defense spending and the European defense industry.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14380289/Denmark-buy-California-retaliation-Donald-Trump-Greenland-threats.html
Denmark proposes buying California.
Lousy analogy but pretty good idea.
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https://legalinsurrection.com/2025/02/greenlands-march-election-focused-on-its-independence/
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https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2025/02/12/trumps_greenland_gambit_is_a_masterclass_in_statecraft_1090828.html
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/12/greenland-election-opposition-democrat-party-wins-surprise-victory-amid-spectre-of-trump
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"The longstanding movement has gained significant traction in recent years after a series of scandals highlighting Denmark’s racist treatment of Greenlanders – including the IUD scandal, in which up to 4,500 women and girls were allegedly fitted with contraception without their knowledge, and “parenting competency” tests that have separated many Inuit children from their parents." :-o :-o :-o
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Which I think is mentioned on one of the previous posts in this thread.
There is the raw material here for Greenland to move into new relationship with America , , , if Trump can learn to speak respectfully as well as clearly.
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https://www.newsmax.com/world/globaltalk/greenland-election-demokraatit/2025/03/13/id/1202602/
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Yes, independence from both. But... any affiliation with the US first requires separation from Denmark.
We won't have to pay the Danes, only make agreements with the locals.
I don't think we want to buy it or own it, I think we want certain benefits (minerals?) in exchange for providing security we would provide anyway.
In the race to the Arctic, we don't want China 'running their ports'.
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A couple regarding Greenland elections/negotiations with a bit of Canada thrown in:
1st
https://skeshel.substack.com/p/american-greenland-may-be-much-closer?r=2k0c5&triedRedirect=true
2nd
Yesterday, the Global News Kingston (a Canadian paper) ran an eye-popping story headlined, “Trump threatens to acquire Canada, Greenland while next to NATO chief.” In a month packed with jaw-dropping developments, this might be the most astonishing. Trump isn’t letting go of his Canada and Greenland ambitions, and this time, he was clearer than ever—while sitting right next to a nodding, smiling Mark Rutte, the head of NATO.
image 3.png
During an Oval Office meeting with NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte, a reporter asked President Trump about his plans to “take over Greenland.” Trump thoughtfully and succinctly replied, “I think it will happen.”
Denmark, which technically owns Greenland, is halfway across the planet. Trump openly questioned what Denmark has to do with it at all. “Denmark’s very far away and really has nothing to do with it. What happened? A boat landed there 200 years ago or something, and they say they have rights to it. I don’t know if that’s true. I don’t think it is, actually.”
It was most hilarious because it’s another classic Trump inversion. For decades, globalists and progressives have decried colonialism at top volume. Now, Trump has them flipping their script to defend Denmark’s colonial rule over Greenland. It’s an exquisite mega-troll.
Trump delicately invoked a military option. “We have a couple of bases on Greenland already and quite a few soldiers," he said, before pointing to Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and saying “maybe you'll see more and more soldiers go in there.” Chuckling, he added, “Pete—don’t answer that!”
Instead of confronting President Trump, NATO chief Rutte noddingly agreed that the Arctic is critical for Western security. The Secretary General kept praising President Trump, for one thing or another, and maniacally laughing at all his jokes. Rutte allowed that Arctic security was indeed an important goal— and agreed it was a goal to be pursued “under U.S. leadership.”
Then Trump turned to his idea of a Canada takeover, explaining how bringing our northern neighbor into the U.S. would just make sense. “This would be the most incredible country visually,” he said. “If you look at a map, they drew an artificial line right through it, between Canada and the U.S., just a straight artificial line. Somebody did it a long time ago, many many decades ago, and it makes no sense.”
Rutte said nothing about the possibility of the U.S. threatening Canada— a founding NATO member. He’s not the only one. The Global News reminded readers that, while British Prime Minister Keir Starmer was in the White House a few weeks ago, a reporter asked him about Canadian annexation and Starmer refused to comment, accusing the reporter of “trying to find a divide between us that doesn’t exist.”
🔥 The flummoxed Canadians don’t know what to think or where to turn. Like our Democrats, they’re just trying to keep their heads above water in a storm of tariffs and half-joking invasion threats. Is Trump serious? If not, it’s the longest-running joke in geopolitical history. Is he negotiating? If so, he’s doing it in the most heavy-handed, impolite, and thoroughly un-Canadian way possible.
And will NATO rescue them? Apparently, NATO’s not interested. “Under U.S. leadership,” Rutte pledged, grinning like a man who knows exactly where his paycheck comes from.
I won’t pretend to know Trump’s actual endgame here. Sometimes, I marvel at the sheer surreality of life in 2025. But one thing is clear: The relentless drumbeat of Trump’s musings about annexing Greenland and Canada has thrown a magnificent shadow over the Ukraine negotiations. How can anyone clutch their pearls over Russia invading Ukraine for its security reasons while Trump is casually debating whether a Danish canoe was enough to stake its claim to Greenland? Or maybe Greenland is still up for grabs?
We call shotgun.
One more observation on Rutte’s butt-kissing. The international media is buzzing with the idea that Europe has “figured out” Trump—just flatter him, and he’ll be more generous. Their theory? Trump craves praise, doesn’t hold grudges, and rewards loyalty. Say nice things, and you get what you want.
Criticize him, and you get a digital artillery barrage of mean tweets. So the elite European playbook says: butter him up, avoid public criticism, and reap the benefits.
They completely miss the brilliance of Trump’s strategy. He’s not rewarding obsequiousness—he’s rewarding cooperation and the positive press that comes with it. As the headlines about Rutte’s meeting prove, Trump himself is elevated every time NATO’s chief offers a passive endorsement. Whether Rutte meant it or not is irrelevant.
The words of flattery themselves have power. Trump is creating consensus.
In under two months, Trump has converted defiant NATO creatures who were taking oaths to resist to the last bureaucrat into fawning assistants.
Where is it all going? Who knows—we’re off the map. Even better, Trump isn’t just off the map. He’s ripping up the maps.
Remember that scene from The Matrix where the bald, spoon-bending student tells Neo, there is no spoon? Well, Neo, there is no map, either.
https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/the-map-bender-friday-march-14-2025 https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/the-map-bender-friday-march-14-2025
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Yes, it is MSN, but it resonates for me.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-s-new-14-word-warning-to-greenland-as-tensions-explode-ahead-of-aggressive-usha-vance-visit/ar-AA1BzfGu?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=f5d6dee173f645a0843ea871ea6291aa&ei=74
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/putin-sends-a-clear-warning-as-trump-tries-to-take-over-greenland/ar-AA1BNUFu?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=9596368d578740da83e82998847aa92d&ei=8
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/report-greenland-residents-asked-if-they-want-to-greet-usha-vance-said-no-thank-you/ar-AA1BNLaD?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=135bd5063aff47528ea5b508187492f7&ei=31
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The Art
of the Deal ====>>> The Art of Insulting People (who were allies) and how to make them partial enemies.
How utterly stupid. There has to be a better way to get Greenland and Denmark on board then offending everyone .
He bullies allies and speaks sweetly to enemies we cannot bully China Russia.
Will this work?
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100% guaranteed we will "get" Greenland
https://news.yahoo.com/trump-says-u-greenland-military-005340629.html
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Why not just use the existing NATO structure to re-establish the many bases we used to have there?!?
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"Greenland is almost 80% ice covered." Doing the math, the part that's not ice covered is the size of California.
I do not understand or appreciate why they put out the option of using force.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTUL7H9N3qU
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/u-s-fires-head-of-military-base-in-greenland-after-jd-vance-visit-for-undermining-chain-of-command/ar-AA1CJHl9?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=168c64e271024a64bc3dc238d3d4edc5&ei=7
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second
April 4, 2025
View On Website
Open as PDF
Plans for Greenland's Development
The new government wants to build a more sustainable economy before pursuing independence.
By: Geopolitical Futures
(click to enlarge)
Greenland’s newly elected parliament has formed a coalition government that prioritizes business development and eventual independence, though parties differ on the timeline. As an autonomous territory, Greenland can call an independence referendum at any time. However, it remains part of Denmark, relying on Copenhagen for economic support – about $600 million annually in subsidies – and national defense.
Greenland’s primary focus is building a sustainable economy before pursuing independence. The development of critical minerals and rare earth elements could transform its economic landscape and reshape its ties with Denmark and the United States. Rich deposits, combined with favorable geography, enable efficient maritime exports and access to key trade routes. Investors are eager to capitalize on these resources, particularly along Greenland’s western coast, but large-scale infrastructure investments will be necessary.
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I guess this was predictable. The island isn't self-sufficient without selling minerals or mineral rights. And it can't defend itself.
$800 million subsidy (a fraction of that for defense) sounds like a lot but for basically a continent, that would hold off a real attack without outside help for maybe a minute?
Greenland is 60 times the size of Taiwan and a defense budget $50 Billion is considered not enough to defend a fraction of the space.
Russia and China don't consider their military spending to be for defense. It's mostly for offense, attacking other countries like Ukraine, Taiwan and Greenland.
Greenland learned from Denmark and Canada that defense spending doesn't matter, the US will pay to defend you.
But Trump playing 4D chess plants the friendly thought, what if the US was the attacker?
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Well, with that quite a few borders around the world go up in flames pretty much at the same time.
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https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2025/04/iceland-to-arms.php
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-nato-country-with-no-military-gets-serious-about-defense/ar-AA1DGEDB?ocid=BingNewsSerp
A founding member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, it has no standing military. Though rooted in Europe, it isn’t part of the European Union.
The U.S. considers both Iceland and Greenland critical to homeland security. Greenland sits along a path that Russian nuclear warheads targeting America could trace across the sky, so is vital to missile detection and defenses. Russian submarines, meanwhile, must run a gantlet near Iceland that NATO calls the Greenland-Iceland-U.K. Gap.
Iceland, like other Nordic countries, has long tried to keep the Arctic from being militarized. With that no longer possible, Icelanders are assessing what expanded defenses might look like.
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What a fg mess he is making here! As the article mentions, how is this different from Putin taking Crimea?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/donald-trump-issues-five-word-greenland-threat-on-using-military-force-to-take-country/ar-AA1E9GCm?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=12030f9d58a0461db23ab0b304225bca&ei=7
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we now know the topic for tonight's CNN anchor hosts - the whole conga line of them.
Democrats.