Fire Hydrant of Freedom

If the goal is to help the Left win and take all our liberties, the 'Libertarian' wins.

You act as though President Trump and Director Regina Lombardo aren't currently doing that.

Didn't the ATF just issue a letter that potentially turned people into felons overnight (assuming they dont feel like sending their AOW's SBR's and pistols to the ATF for a 6-12 month, "points test")?

Sometimes, things have to get worse, before they can get better.
I'm not being smug. I don't know who will win. I know that both major candidates trample the 2nd amendment and I'll have no part of it. Line in the sand if you will. Throw the baby out...bathwater is cold.

Also old....is the Right thinking they're owed Libertarian votes and that it's never going to be reciprocated.

The whole thing going to hell in a handbasket is solid win at this point, being that BOTH Right and Left are seeking to expand big government..

Some in this country, remember what it was like to be free; others sadly, have forgotten or no longer care.

Biden, Harris....just as Hillary would have and Obama did, will force people to care.


"Shall not be infringed." Every gun law is illegal. Every single one.

My thoughts. Let it go the way of Rome. It will sooner or later anyways.

Edit: Looking back....nothing's changed... under Trump, ATF investigations immediately went up more than 10%....
The lie that the Right is somehow pro 2nd Amendment (evidenced by the finger pointing at Biden's Beto), needs to end. The right actually executes gun control more often and more effectively.

https://mises.org/power-market/jeff-sessions-wants-confiscate-your-guns

"Biden 70,000,000
Trump 70,000,000
Jorgensen 7,000,000 = solid win"

Math correction, IMHO, evenly divided electorate
Biden 70 million
Trump 63 million
Libertarian 7 million
Double digit, landslide win for Biden.  L is the spoiler, not the winner.

Closer to reality:
Biden 70 million
Trump 69,999,999
Libertarian   1

Solid victory for whom? Only the one they inaugurate.  Neither scenario advances my liberty, or yours.

If you can build a libertarian party to be bigger than today's R party WITHOUT losing everything we have to the Left along the way, great. But you can't.

Libertarians don't control the R party, why?  They don't have enough support.

Make the issues argument all day and all night long, year round and throughout the election, but don't help the left win while saying you care about liberty. Makes no sense in my view.

Leftists more clever than us try to get Libertarians on the ballots siphoning off  votes from conservatives.  Know your enemy.

One example:  https://www.propublica.org/article/in-montana-dark-money-helped-democrats-hold-a-key-senate-seat

Result: D +1, R -1, L = 0  One vote swung in a divided US Senate is a big deal.

Im new here, so I won't enter the fray other than to say, we'll see What the numbers bear out. That is, if one can trust the count.

Sometimes, it's a race to zero, that is first necessary to achieve a victory.

"pretends to be pro 2nd amendment."

   - Appointed 300 judges and 3 supreme court justices who will uphold the constitution including the second amendment.  That is libertarian.  Joe Biden will do the exact opposite.  If you're not doing everything you can legally to stop him, you're working against your own stated interest in my opinion.  Only one person can beat the Left anti-liberty, anti-gun candidate.  Like it or not, that is Trump.

Correcting your math, if you vote Jorgenson, whoever that is, the score will be closer to something like this:
Biden 70 million
Trump 70 million
Jorgenson 1

Others here have been libertarian.  Plenty of other people have been frustrated with the two parties, Trump ran against the two parties, but the people who actually get elected do it from inside the two parties. Trump knows that. Rand Paul knows that. Bernie knows that.  AOC and Omar know.  Ralph Nader doesn't.  These crucial elections to save the country turn binary. There are two possible winners and there are footnotes.  You don't advance what you say you care about by letting the Left win and pass laws, screw up the judicial system and undermine our rights and liberties.

My humble opinion.

Odd... Can't find the Whig party anywhere. Why is that?

"Take the guns first....due process second." Donald Trump Smacks of constitutionality.
As does every other infringement upon it.

Lincoln... Also third party.
The Soviet Union ceased existing with roughly the passage of nine hours. Biden nor Trump are going to cause the world to stop spinning. Four million years of Hominid existence...will continue. Queue the scene from Monolith 2001... We're still here. 5% of the vote and federal funding for elections is a victory, so we're not tallying numbers the same.
Biden 70,000,000
Trump 70,000,000
Jorgensen 7,000,000 = solid win.

Edit: Bears mentioning that even Trump himself...was and is an outsider....still won...readily acknowledged elsewhere here, in this same site.

GM:
And... You didn't. You voted for who you felt the appropriate choice was.
Excellent. Was just going over Socrates' thoughts on democracy and voting.

Then again... They executed him... What do I know?

A vote for Jorgensen is a vote for Biden then. 

Fortunately, far more Dems are deserting Biden for Trump.

No. A vote is a vote.

If one casts a vote for Jorgensen then the count looks like this:

Biden 0
Trump 0
Jorgensen 1

Especially when federal funding for future elections is involved. Has always been interesting how supporters of either major party seems to tally a vote for a third party, as support for the other major party.

There is a center of the universe. Neither major party is it.

Best of luck.

Edit: Just curious, do you have a source to your claim that more democratic are abandoning Biden for Trump, or is that conjecture? Not being rude. Honestly curious.

When the Constitution was drafted and ratified, none of the men involved ever imagined that life in, say, Massachusetts and South Carolina would become the same. Still less did they conceive that the Constitution gave the federal government authority to make them the same....

This principle mistake of this country is in thinking that the Constitution ever had any authority.

Lysander Spooner makes an excellent argument as to the Constitution having no authority in his essay "No Treason."

This country is going to the way of balkanization and there is no stopping it.

"Security forces..."

Several more powerful grasps have been broken in countries that enjoyed absolute gun control. The security forces....aren't.

The Bear Went Over the Mountain....and The Other Side of the Mountain... Great books.