Author Topic: Epidemics: Bird Flu, TB, AIDs, Superbugs, Ebola, etc  (Read 142417 times)


Crafty_Dog

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« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 07:40:18 PM by Crafty_Dog »


Crafty_Dog

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Where does the government's right to vaccinate come from?
« Reply #1157 on: August 01, 2021, 04:14:19 AM »
https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/where-does-the-governments-right-to-require-vaccinations-come-from?fbclid=IwAR1WJrhv73ToHI9Zve0_cEtRE4Q65oDurmkY7O6Cz31js4gNcpzh2VZSGos

The fact that the article is from 2015 nicely isolates it from current controversies over the Trump Vaccines.

Upon reading the article I see nothing to suggest that it misreads the case law.

OTOH as a matter of logic, if people can protect themselves with a vaccine then there is no need to coerce others to vaccinate.

I had the Wuhan Cooties back in November and the science appears to show that I have good natural anti-bodies.

Standard medical principle is not to take medicine needlessly, so what would be the basis for coercing me to get vaccinated?

Would not doing so be a violation of my Fourth Amendment right to be secure in my person?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 04:23:55 AM by Crafty_Dog »

DougMacG

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Re: Where does the government's right to vaccinate come from?
« Reply #1158 on: August 01, 2021, 06:11:02 AM »
https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/where-does-the-governments-right-to-require-vaccinations-come-from?fbclid=IwAR1WJrhv73ToHI9Zve0_cEtRE4Q65oDurmkY7O6Cz31js4gNcpzh2VZSGos

The fact that the article is from 2015 nicely isolates it from current controversies over the Trump Vaccines.

Upon reading the article I see nothing to suggest that it misreads the case law.

OTOH as a matter of logic, if people can protect themselves with a vaccine then there is no need to coerce others to vaccinate.

I had the Wuhan Cooties back in November and the science appears to show that I have good natural anti-bodies.

Standard medical principle is not to take medicine needlessly, so what would be the basis for coercing me to get vaccinated?

Would not doing so be a violation of my Fourth Amendment right to be secure in my person?

One study says 8 months protection from previous case.
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6529/eabf4063

Vaccine is not 100% protection, perhaps should be called shot, jab, not vaccine.  In public health, one argument beyond protecting yourself is to not be a carrier..  OTOH, perhaps we should not all in a population have some life altering substance injected, not knowing everything that will come from it.

Heavy persuasion is one thing. Requiring it is far different. I agree with you on Constitutional question of that.

Lastly, we have been lied to so often for so long, who knows what to believe.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 07:00:04 AM by DougMacG »

Crafty_Dog

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Two Doctor Friends on Vaccinations for Wuhan Cootie survivors
« Reply #1159 on: August 01, 2021, 08:36:23 AM »
Marc:

I’d like to see the study that inspired dr Fauci’s assertion that immunity from the vaccines is stronger than from the natural infection.  Couldn’t find it.
 
I did read a study that people with natural immunity do not derive additional benefit from vaccination.  Can’t find the link right now.
 
My own SIL had CoViD - and then took the 2 shots.  She told me that the reaction to the 2nd shot was much worse than the original disease.  OK, I also have a 71 year old friend who breezed through all of his 3 encounters with the viral antigen.
 
For those who are looking for consensus on this matter - it doesn’t exist yet.  My overall sense is that for people with natural immunity it’s wiser to refrain from taking the vaccine.  In fact, I think it may be medical malpractice to vaccinate people without first testing them for antibodies. Why?  I think it implies failure to obtain informed consent.
 
Children never needed the vaccine. It appears that they do not spread the disease (much, anyway).  For teachers and anyone else worried about CoViD and it’s variants - they should be encouraged to get vaccinated (as most of us have done).
 
Delta appears to be milder. Here are a couple of quick communications suggesting that.  The second one is just a graph of the recent UK data - cases are sky high, but the death curve is almost flat.
 
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/delta-variant-said-causing-far-fewer-serious-cases-in-israel/
 
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6rYznTWEAMVpSG?format=jpg&name=large
 
About mutations - a Feb 2020 article, from before any controversies have started.
 
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-0690-4
 
Anatole
 
==========================================================================
==========================================================================
 
Marc:
     You had obliquely mentioned that you had natural immunity, but I was not aware that you had a COVID infection, that changes the calculus.

1. First, the official govt response is that they want you vaccinated even though you have had COVID. Next my thoughts:
 
2. You have had COVID, this means you have received the best vaccine possible, a whole living breathing shot of live virus. Compare this with the govt vaccines which are essentially just a small portion of the spike protein (mRNA converts to prot). So you dont need any more vaccine. That would be enough information for most individuals. However, if you want a more analytical/technical approach...
 
3. What does happen is that your antibody levels decline with time. If you got the infection in Nov, its now close to 8-9 months. Doing some basic math, the half life of the antibody is about 73 days, and by end of Aug, I anticipate 4 half-lives will have passed (73 x4=292 days or about 9 months), by which time per standard kinetics about the antibody levels would have declined about 95 %.
 
4. So what i would do is get SARS-CoV-2 IgG levels again, for both anti-N (nucleocapsid) and anti-S/RBD (Spike protein/Receptor Binding Protein). These are IgG antibodies against different parts of the virus. I have seen, that anti-N disappears faster than anti-S, so its good to get both, ideally from the same lab where you got the first test, so that comparisons can be made. If it is a hospital lab, if you call the lab/your doc, you can in addition ask them to give you the semiquantitative reading in optical density..i.e. a number which correlates with the strength of the antibody.
 
5. The data so far shows that antibody levels correlate well with virus neutralizing activity, i.e. its not enough that you have antibodies to COVID, but that those antibodies can actually neutralize the COVID virus. This neutralization can be studied using a VSV- pseudotyped virus (Vesiculo-Stomatitis Virus), that is available at Mayo Labs (code FSAR2) and elsewhere. This testing is however not needed, since the correlation between high levels of antibody and neutralizing activity is high.
 
6. Another line of thought is that even though the antibody levels decline, your body maintains memory of those events, so called anamnestic response and if you were to be reinfected, your body will make fresh antibodies. i.e. you dont need a booster.
 
7. COVID re-infections are very rare (i.e. someone who had COVID catches COVID again), as opposed to vaccine breakthroughs (i.e. catches COVID after vaccination).
 
I believe the above should help you make an informed decision. Get an anti-N and anti-S level to start with and go from there.
 
 

ccp

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response to above post
« Reply #1160 on: August 01, 2021, 10:11:23 AM »
"Delta appears to be milder. Here are a couple of quick communications suggesting that.  The second one is just a graph of the recent UK data - cases are sky high, but the death curve is almost flat."

What about the fact I keep getting push back about this -

"hospitals are overflowing right now"

I don't do hospitals anymore but this is the usual retort when I state the delta is less virulent

I can see younger people not getting vaccinated or those who have already had the virus
but in my view people over ~ 40 should be vaccinated - "real men" get vaccinated

and it certainly would help reduce the spread ......

it is not just the death rate it is the prevention of our economic and daily flow of activity
the unnecessary use of hospital and other health resources that increase costs to all of us
 that also implies vaccinations are beneficial

That all said I know many get angry when I even think in this direction

I see people who absolutely refuse vaccination ( I suspect they are nearly always conservatives - who watch Tucker et al - and so far none have ever denied it when I mention  this)

EVERY DAY

many of these are people in the 40 to 80s
many with underlying conditions

I tell them I am a conservative but I think this whole conservative thing - I am taking a stand here on the vaccine hill - is really misguided

we are in the middle of pandemic that has devastated this country upwards what, 6 + trillion -  has allowed the LEFT to take advantage of it .  For God's sake get the vaccine - you will not die .  And yes do it for the country.

Real men get vaccines ..

GM I love you man.
   you are a real man - no offense to you
    just may opinion.


« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 10:40:09 AM by ccp »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Epidemics: Bird Flu, TB, AIDs, Superbugs, Ebola, etc
« Reply #1161 on: August 01, 2021, 02:57:21 PM »
Let's be clear:

I got the flu vaccine.

The Trump Vaccines were and are a great political achievement for President Trump and a great medical achievement for those who brought them across the finish line. 

I took my mother to get a Trump Vaccine.

I would have gotten a Trump Vaccine for myself, but before it became available to me I caught the Wuhan Virus. 

Therefore I now have the natural antibodies. 

As my doctor friend above says "You have had COVID, this means you have received the best vaccine possible, a whole living breathing shot of live virus. Compare this with the govt vaccines which are essentially just a small portion of the spike protein (mRNA converts to prot). So you dont need any more vaccine."

EXACTLY SO!!! 

Taking medicines we don't need is medical malpractice.

Show me the studies that say there is benefit to those with natural anti-bodies further provoking their immune systems with a (still unapproved it is worth noting) Trump Vaccine shot!

PERSUADE ME!

Instead, for reasons we don't need to go into in this moment, the Powerful are deliberately conflating people like me with the unvaccinated and prepare to deny me my Fourth Amendment right to be secure in my person. 

The Powerful now prepare to seize our children as well on the basis of , , , pretty much zilch.  ("Children never needed the vaccine. It appears that they do not spread the disease (much, anyway).  For teachers and anyone else worried about CoViD and it’s variants - they should be encouraged to get vaccinated (as most of us have done)."

My doctor friend advises me as follows:

"For those who are looking for consensus on this matter - it doesn’t exist yet.  My overall sense is that for people with natural immunity it’s wiser to refrain from taking the vaccine.  In fact, I think it may be medical malpractice to vaccinate people without first testing them for antibodies. Why?  I think it implies failure to obtain informed consent."

As the free man that I am as an American, I exercise my judgment to agree with my doctor friend.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 03:01:07 PM by Crafty_Dog »





DougMacG

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https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbcc4a003-72f9-4417-b43a-be0eb75ac72a_750x1334.png

"The pivotal clinical trial for the Pfizer Covid vaccine trial shows it does nothing to reduce the overall risk of death. Zero. 15 patients who received the vaccine died.  14 patients who received the placebo died.  The End.  The trial blind is broken.  This is all the data we will ever have."

[Doug]  Is this true?  Is this all the data we will ever have?  The link doesn't go anywhere for me so I don't know the study to which he refers.  We just vaccinated a hundred and fifty million people.  Don't we have more data now than 15 deaths?  We don't need placebo, we have vaccinated, unvaccinated and people who built their own anti-bodies fighting the virus.

Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines were 94% effective against COVID-19 hospitalization among fully-vaccinated adults over the age of 65.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7018e1.htm?s_cid=mm7018e1_w

Isn't that pretty good?  Or is it false.  Enter the "delta variant". More contagious.  Less deadly. Isn't it also less deadly because of the high number of vaccinations?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Israel says Pfizer Covid vaccine is just 39% effective as delta spreads, but still prevents severe illness"
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-39percent-effective-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The total number of individuals who died after contracting Covid-19 despite vaccination [as of 6/25/21] is 750.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/25/covid-breakthrough-cases-cdc-says-more-than-4100-people-have-been-hospitalized-or-died-after-vaccination.html

Aren't these numbers consistent with the 94% effective ratio?

"COVID-19 pandemic caused approximately 375,000 deaths in the United States during 2020."
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e1.htm

[Doug] Hard to compare these numbers, but...
375,000 deaths, one year, entire country
750 deaths half year, only of those vaccinated, which is now > 50% but got to that number gradually over the past 6, now 7 months. 
The 94% effective claim seems approximately true throughout a large population study.  If so, the, "does nothing to reduce the overall risk of death"..."This is all the data we will ever have", statement does not appear true to me.  Again, not sure what he is referring to.  If they wouldn't censor, maybe I could look into what honest skeptics are referring.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-publication-results-landmark
----------------------------------------------
Crafty's points about vaccinating (or not) someone who had the covid in November is directly relevant to a circumstance in my family.  I hope to see more information on that.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 09:26:54 AM by DougMacG »

Crafty_Dog

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Ivermectin; MY on pandemics
« Reply #1167 on: August 02, 2021, 07:33:03 PM »
« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 08:06:24 PM by Crafty_Dog »

Crafty_Dog

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Doctor Friend 1 writes
« Reply #1169 on: August 02, 2021, 09:01:25 PM »
In South Florida, I think in Fort Lauderdale, there is a 2 physician medical practice, a husband and wife - who used Ivermectin aggressively on their patients, starting very early in the epidemic.  They claimed excellent results - a 100% recovery rate.  They got some publicity - were mentioned in local papers, on TV - but, that was it. No one, apparently, was interested in evaluating their results.  They must have been some of the first in the world to try this treatment.

Here’s a curious recent study. Basically, it shows that natural immunity from having had CoViD is just as protective as the vaccines - and vaccinating them does not offer any added protection.
https://www.medrxiv.org/.../2021.06.01.21258176v2.full

DrFauci made a big deal about vaccination “boosting” the antibody levels in people who were previously infected.  SO WHAT?  What difference does this make if the immunity levels they have are perfectly sufficient for them to be protected??

In a sane world, people would be advised to take antibody tests prior to vaccinations.  Would save them from having reactions, sometimes severe - for no added benefit.

Crafty_Dog

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Doctor Friend 2 writes
« Reply #1170 on: August 02, 2021, 09:02:25 PM »
third post


You run the risk of overstimulation of your immune system and possible long term autoimmune issues. ...very hard to prove this assertion at the moment though.



Crafty_Dog

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NRO: Good analysis of House Report
« Reply #1172 on: August 03, 2021, 10:36:19 AM »
fifth post

NR PLUS MEMBER FULL VIEW
House Report Contains Shocking Detail about the Wuhan Lab

On the menu today: House Republicans unveil the results of their investigation into the origins of COVID-19, which uncovered an utterly inexplicable massive expenditure by the Wuhan Institute of Virology shortly before the pandemic began; and the three professions that need to get vaccinated the most will probably never face workplace mandates because of the strength of their unions.

The Wuhan Institute of Virology’s $606 Million Air-Conditioning-Repair Bill

On September 16, 2019 — roughly two and a half months before the first reported cases of COVID-19 — the Wuhan Institute of Virology signed a contract to spend a bit more than $606 million on a “Central Air Conditioning Renovation Project.”

Even if you’re used to the air-conditioning guy coming to you with a massive bill, that seems like a lot. For perspective, Microsoft is building a new data-center campus on 53 acres near Chicago for somewhere between $450 million and $500 million. The Wuhan Institute of Virology wanted to spend more than that just to renovate its HVAC system.

This new fact comes from the Republicans on the House Foreign Affairs Committee in a new report, The Origins of COVID-19: An Investigation of the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Its source for that is the China Government Procurement Network. You can run the contract through Google translate; note the contract’s sum of 3,928,876,694 yuan actually calculates out to $607,855,882.69 at the current exchange rate.

The argument of House Republicans is that this massive expenditure, along with others in the preceding and subsequent months, indicates that the Wuhan Institute of Virology had equipment problems in the year before COVID-19 appeared in the surrounding city: “The references to maintenance at the BSL-3 and animal center at the WNBL, the procurement of an environmental air disinfection system, and renovations to the hazardous waste treatment system and central air conditioning system all raise questions about how well these systems were functioning in the months prior to the outbreak of COVID-19.” Josh Rogin notes that the contract announcement, along with one for a new $1.3 million “Security Service Procurement Project” on September 12, were later scrubbed from the Chinese Ministry of Finance website.

I find, even by the standards of government contracting, the sum of $606 million to replace an air-conditioning system so astronomically high that it is hard to believe that the contractor was just being asked to renovate the existing air-conditioning system. Garden-variety corruption doesn’t explain a building’s repairs costing that much. For comparison: “The building and sophisticated equipment that make up the Galveston National Laboratory cost more than $174 million when it was completed in 2008” — that comes out to $219 million once adjusted for inflation.

Why would China’s bill to replace an air-conditioning system be three times the cost of building a new lab from the ground up here in the United States?

Last night, someone in the field insisted that the Institute buildings’ air-conditioning systems had nothing to do with the air-handling system for the biocontainment suites. Fine. But the sheer size of the sum of money in that contract raises the question of just what the contractor was really being asked to do. Beyond that — even by the standards of a secretive and ruthless authoritarian government — who posts and then subsequently takes down the air-conditioning-repair bill, unless there’s something significant about it?

The House Republicans’ report doesn’t mince words, declaring right at the start that:

The preponderance of evidence suggests SARS-CoV-2 was accidentally released from a Wuhan Institute of Virology laboratory sometime prior to September 12, 2019. The virus, or the viral sequence that was genetically manipulated, was likely collected in a cave in Yunnan province, PRC, between 2012 and 2015. Researchers at the WIV, officials within the [Chinese Communist Party], and potentially American citizens directly engaged in efforts to obfuscate information related to the origins of the virus and to suppress public debate of a possible lab leak. It is incumbent on these parties to respond to the issues raised herein and provide clarity and any exonerating evidence as soon as possible. Until that time, it must be assumed General Secretary Xi and the Chinese Communist Party, prioritizes preserving the Party over the lives of its own people and those around the global suffering the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic.

This is not a perfect report; I would quibble with its emphasis on two points.

The first disputable contention is when the report notes that, “athletes at the Military World Games held in Wuhan in October 2019 who became sick with symptoms similar to COVID-19 both while in Wuhan and also shortly after returning to their home countries.” Testing these athletes for antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 would be a simple task, and yet I have not heard about any positive tests that confirmed exposure to the virus in October 2019. As Rogin noted back in June of this year, “no one performed any antibody testing or disease tracing on these thousands of athletes. No one even attempted to find out whether the games in Wuhan was, in fact, the first international pandemic super spreader event.” It’s possible that SARS-CoV-2 was spreading among those athletes at that time, but that remains unproven.

The second disputable contention is that, “satellite imagery of Wuhan in September and October 2019 that showed a significant uptick in the number of people at local hospitals surrounding the WIV’s headquarters, coupled with an unusually high number of patients with symptoms similar to COVID-19.” The problem is that we don’t know if those upper-respiratory illnesses and viral infections represented cases of SARS-CoV-2; Wuhan has a lot of other viruses going around! In June and July 2019, the streets of Wuhan saw massive protests of thousands of people, objecting to construction of a new incinerator plant, complaining that the city’s air quality was bad enough.

Beyond that, the House Foreign Affairs Committee report is excellent. Some details are almost comical:

Director Wang’s 2021 New Year’s speech makes reference to the Party Committee of Wuhan Institute of Virology, pledging that the party committee will “effectively play the role of a battle fortress of grassroots party organizations.” The WNBL also has its own party branch, the Zhengdian Laboratory Party Branch, which was “awarded the title of ‘Red Flag Party Branch’ by the Hubei Provincial Party Committee and Provincial Organization Working Committee, effectively playing an advanced and exemplary role.” Notably, in discussing the COVID-19 pandemic, Director Wang [Yanyi]’s 2021 speech takes pains to address questions of lab safety — “The institute’s high-level biosafety laboratory operates safely for more than 300 days throughout the year.” Her 2020 address, posted sometime after April 2020, makes no such mention.

Director Wang knows how many days are in a year, right? Declaring a lab operates “safely for more than 300 days throughout the year” is like saying you drive safely six days a week.

The report lays out why some figures in government strongly suspect that the Wuhan Institute of Virology is connected to Chinese biological-weapons programs:

The WNBL’s BSL-4 lab was constructed as a result of an agreement between the PRC and France that was signed after the 2003 SARS pandemic. At the time, all BSL-3 labs in the PRC were controlled by the PRC’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA). Then-President of France, Jacques Chirac, and his Prime Minister, Jean-Pierre Raffarin, approved the project despite concerns from both the French Ministry of Defense and French intelligence services – Raffarin himself described it as “a political agreement.” The PRC was suspected of having a biological warfare program, and the military and intelligence services were worried that the dual-use technology required to build a BSL4 lab could be misused by the PRC government. The uneasy compromise reached within the French government was that the agreement would require joint PRC-France research to be conducted in the lab, with French researchers present. In 2016, the PRC requested dozens of the containment suits required to work in the lab. The French Dual-Use Commission, tasked with considering exports of sensitive equipment, rejected their request. According to French reporting, the request was “well above the needs of the Wuhan [lab].” This continued to fuel concerns within the French Ministry of Defense that the PRC was seeking to engage in military research or open a second BSL-4 lab for military means. Despite the agreement that the BSL-4 lab would be a site of joint research, and an announcement at the 2017 inauguration by then Prime Minister Bernard Cazeneuve of €5 million in funding, there has only been one French scientist assigned to the lab. His tour ended in 2020.

It’s a thorough, detailed, and even-handed report. Read the whole thing here.

Of course, this report from House Republicans is just the appetizer. The intelligence community’s assessment is the main course.

Wait, Which Groups Are Refusing to Get Vaccinated?

I’m not a fan of vaccine mandates as a condition of employment — at least, not a mandate for a vaccine still waiting for a biological-license-application approval from the FDA. But if I had a magic wand and could instantly vaccinate everyone in three professions in America, I know exactly which groups I would choose. The first would be staffers at nursing homes and assisted-living facilities, because the people they work with are the most vulnerable to both COVID-19 and all other infections. And only 59 percent of nursing-home staffers are partially or fully vaccinated nationwide.

The second would be staffers at hospitals and other medical facilities, because the people they work with are the most likely to be infected and symptomatic. About one in four hospital workers across the country remains unvaccinated; at the country’s 50 largest hospitals, the rate is one in three.

And the third would be teachers and anyone else who encounters large numbers of children; while the COVID-19 risk to children is still low, children are the one group in America that remains involuntarily unvaccinated.

Naturally, thanks to these groups’ unions, the three professions least likely to experience a vaccine mandate at their workplace are nursing-home workers, hospital workers, and teachers.

ADDENDUM: Thanks to Andy McCarthy for the kind words.





ccp

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Crafty_Dog

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Fukk the Fauci Hijab
« Reply #1175 on: August 03, 2021, 04:12:01 PM »

ccp

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G M

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G M

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Re: response to above post
« Reply #1178 on: August 04, 2021, 08:32:20 PM »
I'm willing to take a vaccine as soon as I find someone willing to accept all potential liability from any injury or death that results from the vaccine.

"Delta appears to be milder. Here are a couple of quick communications suggesting that.  The second one is just a graph of the recent UK data - cases are sky high, but the death curve is almost flat."

What about the fact I keep getting push back about this -

"hospitals are overflowing right now"

I don't do hospitals anymore but this is the usual retort when I state the delta is less virulent

I can see younger people not getting vaccinated or those who have already had the virus
but in my view people over ~ 40 should be vaccinated - "real men" get vaccinated

and it certainly would help reduce the spread ......

it is not just the death rate it is the prevention of our economic and daily flow of activity
the unnecessary use of hospital and other health resources that increase costs to all of us
 that also implies vaccinations are beneficial

That all said I know many get angry when I even think in this direction

I see people who absolutely refuse vaccination ( I suspect they are nearly always conservatives - who watch Tucker et al - and so far none have ever denied it when I mention  this)

EVERY DAY

many of these are people in the 40 to 80s
many with underlying conditions

I tell them I am a conservative but I think this whole conservative thing - I am taking a stand here on the vaccine hill - is really misguided

we are in the middle of pandemic that has devastated this country upwards what, 6 + trillion -  has allowed the LEFT to take advantage of it .  For God's sake get the vaccine - you will not die .  And yes do it for the country.

Real men get vaccines ..

GM I love you man.
   you are a real man - no offense to you
    just may opinion.

G M

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Full disclosure
« Reply #1179 on: August 04, 2021, 08:41:05 PM »

G M

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ccp

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Cochrane review on ivermectin
« Reply #1181 on: August 05, 2021, 04:19:51 AM »
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD015017.pub2/full

Cochrane review is a way of making heads or tails of multiple studies

To me it is a complicated data analysis
but I was told by a trusted previous professor of mine from the 1980s who has published in the New England Journal landmark studies
that he thinks it is valid

Once again , however, it is endless data crunches analyses and more crunches.

Bottom line here is it states there is insufficient evidence to conclude ivermectin does anything.

OTOH it does not prove it does not - only that the available studies do not prove it does.

I do not prescribe it and return money for patients who call to ask for it and be prescribed the medicine  in a polite fashion.




« Last Edit: August 05, 2021, 04:24:58 AM by ccp »


ccp

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Re: Epidemics: Bird Flu, TB, AIDs, Superbugs, Ebola, etc
« Reply #1183 on: August 05, 2021, 07:29:14 AM »
I have been recommending those who get the infection
to go on and get the vaccine

but it may well be that is not needed
though I don't see evidence that convinces me it is harmful to do this .

My head spins as much as any non doctor on all the things flying around medical journals news
 internet

CD please ask your friend about the Cochrane review.
I would be interested in his opinion of it.

Thanks

DougMacG

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Re: response to above post, vaccine
« Reply #1184 on: August 05, 2021, 07:58:26 AM »
G M:  "I'm willing to take a vaccine as soon as I find someone willing to accept all potential liability from any injury or death that results from the vaccine."

[Disclosure: I took two tiny jabs of the pfizer, partly due to pressure from my daughter who thinks I'm old and vulnerable.  Also for the 'public health' aspect.]

[My 2 cents]  My guess from afar, G M is not of super vulnerable age, doesn't have known co-morbidities, doesn't live a super spreader lifestyle, and is not the problem or the solution for Wuhan virus.   The people who come into brief contact with G M (and others) already got the vaccine if they wanted it and are protected, if the vaccine works.

Estimated 35% of US has had the virus.  Estimated 55% US have had at least one dose vaccine, 65% here.  Those groups overlap so they don't add up to 90 or 100%.  We are not at 'herd immunity' but we are not the vulnerable population we were a year and a half ago either - if anti-bodies and vaccines are effective.  If they are not, then all this worry about who gets vaccinated and who does not isn't as crucial.

On the other side of public health, it is good for the human race and for science that not everyone is injected with RNA altering substance, or whatever it is.

Early vaccination numbers seemed true, 94-95% effective against infection and nearly 100% effective against dying from it.  That's pretty good. 

Delta variant numbers are more confusing, and 'Delta' won't be the last variant.  There isn't one correct vaccination answer for all people, IMHO.  Your risk on both sides of the equation vary.

For a doc, I understand recommending vaccination.  That patient in front of you may have unknown co-morbidities, may get infected and may die, and a vaccine is available to likely prevent that.  To not take it, for some, is a valid personal choice also.

The death curve where I live is basically at zero, summer in Minnesota.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view
Like the Cuomo scandal, they already killed off the old people locked up in nursing homes.

Now I'm wearing an N95 outdoors, sometimes, for the wildfire smoke, and taking it off to go into the stores.  Go figure.


Crafty_Dog

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Israel: Data shows natural immunity better against Delta by far
« Reply #1186 on: August 06, 2021, 04:15:23 AM »
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762?fbclid=IwAR2w4r7z9G-B74Dl7dfwl6d7E-OkYvJMmgaNdS89ZgTzhJMn53u5OPgUfVE

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection?
Nearly 40% of new COVID patients were vaccinated - compared to just 1% who had been infected previously.
 Tags: Coronavirus Vaccine
David Rosenberg , Jul 13 , 2021 9:24 AM
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COVID-19 vaccine
COVID-19 vaccineiStock

Coronavirus patients who recovered from the virus were far less likely to become infected during the latest wave of the pandemic than people who were vaccinated against COVID, according to numbers presented to the Israeli Health Ministry.

Health Ministry data on the wave of COVID outbreaks which began this May show that Israelis with immunity from natural infection were far less likely to become infected again in comparison to Israelis who only had immunity via vaccination.

More than 7,700 new cases of the virus have been detected during the most recent wave starting in May, but just 72 of the confirmed cases were reported in people who were known to have been infected previously – that is, less than 1% of the new cases.


Roughly 40% of new cases – or more than 3,000 patients – involved people who had been infected despite being vaccinated.

A rapid coronavirus test - and results within 15 minutes
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Slight drop in number of serious coronavirus cases
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With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave.


According to a report by Channel 13, the disparity has confounded – and divided – Health Ministry experts, with some saying the data proves the higher level of immunity provided by natural infection versus vaccination, while others remained unconvinced.

« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 04:44:49 AM by Crafty_Dog »


Crafty_Dog

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Adverse events; children's antibodies
« Reply #1188 on: August 08, 2021, 03:01:49 AM »
second post

https://journals.lww.com/ajg/Fulltext/2021/08000/Adverse_Events_After_SARS_CoV_2_mRNA_Vaccination.31.aspx

RESULTS:
In general, AE frequency was similar to that reported in the general population. AEs were more common among younger patients and those with previous COVID-19.
=================================================

https://www.futurity.org/mild-covid-antibodies-kids-2600642/
« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 03:23:35 AM by Crafty_Dog »

Crafty_Dog

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Broad long term response for natural anti-bodies
« Reply #1189 on: August 08, 2021, 03:12:05 AM »
third

https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-3791(21)00203-2?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS2666379121002032%3Fshowall%3Dtrue


Longitudinal analysis shows durable and broad immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection with persisting antibody responses and memory B and T cells
Kristen W. Cohen 10
Susanne L. Linderman 10
Zoe Moodie
Mehul S. Suthar 11
Rafi Ahmed 11
M. Juliana McElrath 11, 12
Show all authors
Show footnotes
Open AccessPublished:July 14, 2021DOI:https://doi.org/10.1016/j.xcrm.2021.100354
PlumX Metrics

Most recovered COVID-19 patients mount broad, durable immunity after infection
Neutralizing antibodies show a bi-phasic decay with half-lives >200 days
Spike IgG+ memory B cells increase and persist post-infection
Durable polyfunctional CD4 and CD8 T cells recognize distinct viral epitope regions

Summary

Ending the COVID-19 pandemic will require long-lived immunity to SARS-CoV-2. Here, we evaluate 254 COVID-19 patients longitudinally up to 8 months and find durable broad-based immune responses. SARS-CoV-2 spike binding and neutralizing antibodies exhibit a bi-phasic decay with an extended half-life of >200 days suggesting the generation of longer-lived plasma cells. SARS-CoV-2 infection also boosts antibody titers to SARS-CoV-1 and common betacoronaviruses. In addition, spike-specific IgG+ memory B cells persist, which bodes well for a rapid antibody response upon virus re-exposure or vaccination. Virus-specific CD4+ and CD8+ T cells are polyfunctional and maintained with an estimated half-life of 200 days. Interestingly, CD4+ T cell responses equally target several SARS-CoV-2 proteins, whereas the CD8+ T cell responses preferentially target the nucleoprotein, highlighting the potential importance of including the nucleoprotein in future vaccines. Taken together, these results suggest that broad and effective immunity may persist long-term in recovered COVID-19 patients.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 03:17:33 AM by Crafty_Dog »

G M

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G M

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Re: vaccine available death rates drop
« Reply #1192 on: August 08, 2021, 03:47:36 PM »


DougMacG

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Re: CDC considered the Shielding Approach
« Reply #1194 on: August 09, 2021, 08:59:47 AM »
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/global-covid-19/shielding-approach-humanitarian.html?fbclid=IwAR0NHprxmHvLAkhbPXsrSSCKi4VaAJYINq0DU30soDTU7IwJIFGgutDNp48

"High-risk individuals would be temporarily relocated to safe or “green zones” established at the household, neighborhood, camp/sector or community level"

  - Typo?  They forgot the word 'voluntarily' relocated?

How come the plotting and planning to keep us safe always overlaps with the Left mission to take away our God given freedoms?

Crafty_Dog

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DougMacG

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Re: Makary on Masks
« Reply #1196 on: August 09, 2021, 09:25:32 AM »
https://video.foxnews.com/v/6266975985001?fbclid=IwAR2lQk6_gzqDsz3Hyvde8D_7ZqAXVVm63e8rfG68geI5n_c97R8Rh_r-gWg#sp=show-clips

Very good and optimistic analysis there.  Thank you.

A person who has had the virus is 6-7 times better protected (if I heard that correctly) than someone who is only vaccinated.  IF he is right, that ends the argument of a vaccinated person telling someone who has had the virus and doesn't want the vaccine to get vaccinated, and he is as knowledgeable as anyone we are going to find.

DougMacG

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Pandemic update , Sweden lost 0.0014 of their population to covid
« Reply #1197 on: August 09, 2021, 11:17:09 AM »
[Nearly wiping out the country as predicted], 0.0014 of the population in Sweden died so far a coronavirus linked death, 14,000 out of 10 million.  [Half those deaths were in nursing homes.] Now they have higher natural immunity rates and also have very high vaccination rates.  With Delta, 8 people in Sweden died of coronavirus in July. 

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/monvindication-swedish-model-non-coercive-pandemic-mitigation

Of the currently 12,248 people who have tested positive for COVID-19, 12, 219 are experiencing mild symptoms (99.8%) and 29 (0.2%) are in serious or critical condition, according to woldometers.info.