Author Topic: Organized & Disorganized Religion and anti-religion  (Read 49076 times)


Crafty_Dog

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ccp

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Jewish views on religious pluralism
« Reply #103 on: November 14, 2023, 07:41:10 AM »

G M

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Re: Jewish views on religious pluralism
« Reply #104 on: November 14, 2023, 08:06:27 AM »
moving from western civ thread to here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_religious_pluralism

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YYTv45XRWJA

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vio53jUpJz0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh-Shp-Hcds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq28ZFNzaWM

I'm just not getting a strong "our greatest ally/hub of western civilization" vibe here.

Yes, not ALL Israelis/Jews agree with the above, but not a small number seem to.





ccp

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The Popes position on Gays clarified
« Reply #106 on: December 27, 2023, 09:43:24 AM »
https://patriotpost.us/opinion/103110-understanding-the-vaticans-statement-on-same-sex-couples-and-blessings-2023-12-21

In listening to Bill O'Reilly (a Roman Catholic) recent podcase he explains that the Pope is not saying to bless gay marriage but it is ok for priests to bless gay relationships per say.

He thought this is because the Pope is not preaching morality at this time and he concludes it is from the immorality of child abuse within the American Church over the yrs makes it hard for him to turn around and preach morality to others.




Body-by-Guinness

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Zappa-ing Those Wretched Christians
« Reply #109 on: February 26, 2024, 10:48:13 AM »
My religious beliefs are likely most easily described as agnostic, albeit perhaps to the point I'm difficult to distinquish from a full bore atheist, and indeed I've been told by more than one evangelical bent on convincing me that my reasoned unwillingness to be guided by the dictates some claim an invisible guy in the sky that appears to be asleep at the switch as defined by a class that all too often is found to be lining their pockets or populating their bedchamber via ecclesiastical machinations means eternal perditon is coming my way. So be it.

With that preamble handled, however, these days religious bigotry is a hell of a lot easier to find than any other sort "Progressives" hyperventilate about. Indeed, after establishing I'm going to burn in iniquity, most filled with more fundemental flavors of religious fervor generally leave me the heck alone. Puritans of the "Progressive" variety--meaning most of 'em--not so much. As such this piece is spot on as it deconstructs the amorphous boogie man, er, person "Progressives" try to mold all Christians, Judeo-Christians, and indeed darn near well all that embrace Western as opposed to Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, et al antecedents into.

BTW, the piece's title alludes to a Frank Zappa tune "My Guitar Wants to Kill Your Momma." Were only that he was around to make fun of the New Puritans as he did 20th century ones:

Christian Right Gonna Get Yo Momma

Michael Walsh • 26 Feb, 2024 • 5 Min Read
 
Christian Nationalists inventing America.

In its never-ending rebellion against Greco-Roman/Western civilization and the philosophy of the late 18th century, the international Left has come up with a new bete noire: "Christian Nationalism." As part of its ongoing series, called Exploring Hate, PBS has produced a documentary on the subject, "The Rise of Christian Nationalism." Rob Reiner, aka Meathead from All In the Family from centuries ago, has just flopped with an anti-Christian film, God and Country, with a miserable four-day opening box-office haul of just $38, 415. Meanwhile, David French, the former conservative who appears as a talking head in Reiner's movie, has just written an explainer, "What is Christian Nationalism, Exactly?" at the mother ship of Woke Stalinist orthodoxy, the devoutly anti-Christian New York Times:

The problem with Christian nationalism isn’t with Christian participation in politics but rather the belief that there should be Christian primacy in politics and law. It can manifest itself through ideology, identity and emotion. And if it were to take hold, it would both upend our Constitution and fracture our society.

George begs to differ.

But Christian nationalism isn’t just rooted in ideology; it’s also deeply rooted in identity, the belief that Christians should rule. This is the heart of the Seven Mountain Mandate, a dominionist movement emerging from American Pentecostalism that is, put bluntly, Christian identity politics on steroids. Paula White, Donald Trump’s closest spiritual adviser, is an adherent, and so is the chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, Tom Parker, who wrote a concurring opinion in the court’s recent I.V.F. decision. The movement holds that Christians are called to rule seven key societal institutions: the family, the church, education, the media, the arts, business and the government.

Most atheist Leftists have no understanding of the many and manifest differences between and among Christian sects, foremost among them split between Roman Catholics and the various Protestant sects -- Episcopalians, Lutherans, Baptists, Presbyterians, Seventh-Day Adventists, et al. -- once fundamental to early America but now waning in numbers and influence. Consider the wording of Saul Alinsky's noxious but effective Rule No. 4: "Make opponents live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."

That there is no "Christian church" doesn't matter to someone like Alinsky one bit; he only sees one Principal Enemy (as the Soviets used to call the U.S.). But it is against this wing of Christendom -- as it happens, the wing of most of the Founders who understood they were creating a new nation based upon Christian principles and the wisdom of the British Enlightenment -- that the hostility against "Christian Nationalism" is directed.

When the Founders established the protective notion of freedom of religion and the proscription against a religious test for office, the context was the rivalry and animosity between the Protestant sects and Catholicism, and with the understanding that the small Jewish community could be free to worship as it chose as well. It's worth remembering that the Constitution's prohibition against an "establishment of religion" referred to the establishment nationwide of a single Protestant sect (or, God forbid, Catholicism) -- and yet the states were perfectly free to have established churches: Connecticut and Massachusetts, for example, which were constitutionally Congregationalist into the 19th century.

The idea that freedom of religion would eventually be exploited against the United States of America by the West's deadliest enemies, the Muslims who had been battling the Christian Byzantines and the European Crusaders for a millennium and who were still raiding and slaving in European countries along the Mediterranean right up through the 18th century, never occurred to them. And yet, the Left has no issues with Islamic supremacists such as Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib in the federal government; it's the waning, defensive Protestants against whom the animosity regarding "Christian Nationalism" is largely aimed.

Remember Constantinople.

Catholics, adherents of a top-down religion with an ancient bureaucratic structure inherited from the Roman Empire, rarely if ever read the Bible. (It's read aloud, in very small bits, at Mass each week.) Nor do they routinely quote from it. They don't believe the world is about to end, they don't have a "personal relationship" with Jesus, and they largely disregard the Old Testament -- it didn't even make it in to the first Christian Bible, assembled by Marcion -- and they can't quote a lick of it. They certainly do not believe it makes predictions about human events -- especially given the fact that the imminent prophecies of the ancient Hebrews (and by Jesus himself, for that matter) have unfailingly failed to materialize except by the most tortuous interpretations. In short, Catholics believe Christ will come again, someday, and so we should live our lives accordingly.

This is a faith alien to snake-handling Protestants, End Times aficionados, Bible-thumpers, glossolalians, crackpot evangelicals, and those who honor Charles of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha as the head of their church -- in other words, those who either make up or who are alleged to make up, the "Christian Nationalist" movement. That it's no threat to the body politic should be obvious to anyone but irreligious bigots and political malcontents who continue to seethe at George Washington (Anglican), Thomas Jefferson (a Deist), Benjamin Franklin (Deist), Alexander Hamilton (nominal Episcopalian) for daring to talk about God so openly in the public square, and in particular for having the effrontery to write in the Declaration of Independence:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..

What frightens today's anti-Christians most is that our human rights come not from D.C. or the HR department but from a creator God, and that such an observation is "self-evident." The party of slavery (which was overturned by a cabal of Christians), segregation (ditto), secularism, and sedition -- in other words, the Democrats -- cannot tolerate this, of course. From the day Burr killed Hamilton they've been waging a war against the country as founded, importing the alien ideology of Marxism along with Emma Lazarus' huddled masses, yearning to breathe free and sow discord and discontent. Today, in an imperfect, recedingly Christian capitalist society the rebellion has taken root, having learned to play by the system's economic rules and create large fortunes (most of the obscene wealth in the U.S. these days is on the hard Left) for itself, but still nursing its ancient ideological grudges and cursing the very freedoms that make their lives here possible. They won't rest.

Michael Walsh is a journalist, author, and screenwriter. He was for 16 years the music critic and a foreign correspondent for Time Magazine. His works include the novels As Time Goes By, And All the Saints, and the bestselling “Devlin” series of NSA thrillers; as well as the nonfiction bestseller, The Devil’s Pleasure Palace and its sequel, The Fiery Angel. Last Stands, a study of military history from the Greeks to the present, was published by St. Martin's Press in December 2019. He is also the editor of Against the Great Reset: 18 Theses Contra the New World Order, published on Oct. 18, 2022. Follow him on Twitter: @theAmanuensis

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Organized & Disorganized Religion and anti-religion
« Reply #110 on: February 27, 2024, 04:00:54 PM »
I just put this to good use with a liberal Jewish friend who reason today to have his panties in a bunch about Christian Nationalists and Seven Mountain folks etc.

Body-by-Guinness

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Re: Organized & Disorganized Religion and anti-religion
« Reply #111 on: February 27, 2024, 06:52:57 PM »
I just put this to good use with a liberal Jewish friend who reason today to have his panties in a bunch about Christian Nationalists and Seven Mountain folks etc.

Glad to hear it, though I did kinda expect you to jump in with a Zappa anecdote or two.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Organized & Disorganized Religion and anti-religion
« Reply #112 on: March 01, 2024, 07:44:07 PM »
Well, I did see him with the Mothers of Invention at the Fillmore East.  Frankly even though I respected his musicianship, the only album of his I ever cared for was Hot Rats-- wherein he actually took the musically seriously and just PLAYED.

Body-by-Guinness

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Re: Organized & Disorganized Religion and anti-religion
« Reply #113 on: March 02, 2024, 12:26:37 PM »
Well, I did see him with the Mothers of Invention at the Fillmore East.  Frankly even though I respected his musicianship, the only album of his I ever cared for was Hot Rats-- wherein he actually took the musically seriously and just PLAYED.
While I confess Joe’s Garage and Sheik Your Bootie had to be quoted and sung in various kitchens I worked lest you be considered a cultural cretin.