Bryan:
I am having a hard time composing a response to you because to me it reads
like you are jumping all over the place: debating with posts made on other
forums; making vague and confusing references to conspiracies in Arkansas
and with regard to the well-deserved American actions against Libya in 1986
and so forth. I have no idea what these passages mean or have to do with
the subjects at hand.
I also see that you have edited your posts-and so I perforce am working from
memory when I say that your original posts stated that you do not feel that
you are protected by our Constitution, and that as part of being a Muslim
you seek Sharia becoming the law of the land.
Why would you delete these honest expressions of your beliefs?
As best as I can tell, these are the pertinent points:
America is not the Christian nation that you say it to be. It is a free
nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all. The divinely inspired
Christian men who wrote our Declaration of Independence, our Constitution
and our Bill of Rights were given by our Creator (note that they did not say
"Jesus" even though they were Christian) to transcend to a higher level than to seek to impose their way
upon others. They recognized that free men and women of this nation (and
any other!) are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights.
Amongst these rights are free speech, and freedom of religion-which mostly
certainly excludes the merging of church and state sought by Sharia.
Contrary to your assertions, this means that writers, cartoonists and
citizens have the right to write whatever they d*mn well please without
intimidation-including from religious fascists.
You make reference to not going into black neighborhoods and using the word
"nigger" and the natural response being violent and vigorous. What this
argument misses is that there are Nazi publications in America referring to
"kikes" and "niggers". And when those Nazis wanted to march in Skokie,
Illinois precisely because it was full of Jewish holocaust survivors, Jewish
lawyers for the ACLU fought for their right to do so in the American courts
that you depreciate (not that your words in this regard are not quite
accurate on occasion) and the Nazis marched and the Jews of Skokie respected
that right. WHY? BECAUSE THIS IS AMERICA.
Other examples abound. The singer Madonna (whom I dislike by the way) whose
stage name itself is a blasphemy, can make videos of herself cavorting in
her lingerie and humping an actor portraying Jesus. Surely this qualifies
as blasphemy? Yet all this goes without the Vatican or Jerry Falwell
issuing fatwas calling for her death or the bulk of the Christian majority
nations calling for boycotts of America unless our government shuts her up.
No howling mobs in the street either.
The actor Mel Gibson, whose father denies the Holocaust, can make a movie
about Jesus (whom by the way is regularly drawn, painted and portrayed by
actors with nary a burp from anyone) and portray the Jews so badly that
special dispensation was made for the movie to be shown in Saudi Arabia
because it did such a good job of showing "what the Jews are really like"--
yet we do not see the "worldwide Jewish conspiracy" going on a rampage or
sending its children to commit mass murder of gentiles by suicide.
The "Da Vinci Code" surely blasphemes the Catholic Church, but , , , no
fatwas from the Pope. And surely you have seen the blistering commentary
and scathing satire about the Catholic Church's problems with pedophiliac
priests and the institutional cover-ups thereof. Again, no fatwas. No
world-wide howling mobs of Catholics burning our embassies. No boycotts.
The only reaction was some articles taking exception to the movie, some
sermons, and some invitations to the curious to "come on in and find out the
truth."
In the western world in which you and I live, in the America of which we are
both blessed to be citizens, we the people have the right to disrespect
power the powers that be. That right most certainly includes the right to
blaspheme-- and that includes Islam and its symbols. ISLAM IS NOT ABOVE
OTHER RELIGIONS AND GETS TREATED JUST LIKE THE REST. If howling mobs the
equivalent of Mussolini's brown shirts seek to intimidate when there is a
mocking of something Islamic, it is our duty as a free people to make it
clear that they can go f*ck themselves.
I am quite aware of the existence "fighting words" doctrine in our law see
e.g. the Supreme Court case of Chaplinsky vs. New Hampshire. Working from
memory, the holding in Chaplinsky sought to distinguish personal insults of
a fighting words nature and free speech. This is quite far from the
proposition for which you seek to use it-to justify fascist intimidation of
the obviously political speech in question here.
Concerning your professed tolerance in matters of religion, it simply is
inconsistent with your now deleted expression of desire for Sharia to be the
law of America. In the homeland of Islam, Saudi Arabia other religions are
prohibited. This brings to mind your now deleted reference about not being
protected by the US Constitution. You can be a Muslim here because of our
Constitution, but trying being a Jew, a Christian, a Buddhist, a Hindu, a
pagan, etc in Saudi Arabia or many other Muslim majority nations-- let
alone imagine them having a synagogue for Jews in their armed forces
Sharia,
which even your post-edited post tells us you like, calls for Jews and
Christians to be taxed as a sign of Islam's dominance.
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they
prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion
of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax
in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."
(9.29)"
Why do you, who tell us "Islam is My religion, Its always with me, I begin
my days with it, I live my days with it, I end my days with it, I dream it
in my sleep," wish this for America? Why do you wish the subjection of
other religions and to tax them?
And how does this square with your oath as a member of our armed forces to
uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies both foreign and
domestic? When I asked you this before you said, "I will always protect the
office of the President of the United States and the American Embassies
anywhere in the world in any country and consider it a honer (sic) to do so".
This is quite a bit less than what is required by your oath!!! It sounds
like your interpretation of your religion is in conflict with your oath.
Please feel free to clarify.
Which brings me to my turn to clarify-- although I think it is
already clear to you because you have been surfing the "other forum" so no
doubt you have been running into my posts there forthrightly challenging and
condemning the juvenile and sometimes hateful comments that do not
distinguish between fascist Muslims and those such as Sibatan
sometimes found there.
(You also have my posts here-including for example the one of
March 8th in the "Danish" thread in which I bring attention to Islamic
groups in India separating themselves from the fatwas.)
As I have repeatedly said on the other forum, President Bush's
strategy for America in the War with Islamic Fascism (the "War on Terror" is
such a mealy-mouthed name) rightly seeks alliance with good Muslims
everywhere. I have repeatedly said on the other forum that to turn all
this into a war on Islam would be both wrong and a mistake.
As for your posts about the Marines building an Islamic prayer center, that
simply seems to me to be the normal course of affairs in America. Any
Muslim in our Armed Forces who fully believes in his oath to uphold and
defend our Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic has my
gratitude. THAT SAID, I SEE NO REASON FOR YOU TO BE DEBATING HERE
STATEMENTS MADE BY SOME INDIVIDUALS IN ANOTHER FORUM.
American blood is spilling as we speak so that the mostly Muslim people of
Iraq are free to choose-and choose democracy they have-three times they have
voted in the face of Al Qaeda's murderous hatred and denunciations of
democracy as "anti-Islamic".
(Would you obey an order to go fight in Iraq? From your statement about
"protect(ing) the office of the President of the United States and the
American Embassies anywhere in the world" it appears otherwise.)
I have already listed the many ways and times America has stood with Muslims
(please go reread this) -so the issue is not as the Islamic Fascists and
those deluded by their lies (a delusion enabled by the absence of a free
press) claim-- that we are "against Islam".
Like America, I am not for or against Islam-and given what you already know
about me do not see good reason for you to get indignant over page two of some
website I posted. OF COURSE the statement is overbroad because it is
directed at ALL Muslims per se! But who assumes that someone has read every
page of every URL they post?!? My post of the URL that you question was
made on March 5 and it is now June 20th. To the best of my recollection, I
posted it as a source of the cartoons in question so that people could make
up their own minds what all the fuss was about.
I am FOR freedom and respect. I am for freedom of speech. I am for
separation of church and state-and regard it to be a profound error to merge
the two as you seek to do to the point that it would change the nature of
what it means to be America and to be American.
The Adventure continues,
Marc/Crafty Dog
========
Sibatan:
Good to see your post.
Marc/CD
