Author Topic: Ukraine  (Read 223247 times)


Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1251 on: April 02, 2023, 05:51:39 PM »
Given the ethnic realities of Ukraine, this does not surprise.

G M

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As I told you…
« Reply #1252 on: April 03, 2023, 04:35:10 PM »
".Erroneous as the policy to move into Ukraine was, now that the fight is underway, at its core removing the Germans of the option of backstabbing was not a stupid idea

you mean by US blowing up the pipeline?

but what has that got to do with the near total media blackout on the matter
(at lease here is US- I don't know about Deutsch land media)

and why is not Germany pissed ?

Hersh's story was leaking into German awareness, thus prompting the malignant retards at Langley to come up with the "Ukes on a sailboat" story.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/dont-talk-about-nord-stream-details-wapo-report-upend-official-narrative


G M

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1253 on: April 04, 2023, 07:50:44 AM »

G M

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ccp

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G M

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Re: Clinton "mea culpa"
« Reply #1257 on: April 06, 2023, 09:33:37 AM »
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/nuclear-weapons-ukraine-putin/2023/04/05/id/1115184/

Maybe someone is nervous now that former presidents are on the menu for any local prosecutor…


ccp

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wonder who leak the top secret military docs
« Reply #1259 on: April 08, 2023, 03:18:22 PM »
https://nypost.com/2023/04/08/leaked-pentagon-docs-show-russian-intelligence-compromised-by-us/

I am thinking it would not be Russia itself as embarrassing
I am thinking China would keep their penetration of US intelligence secret
and not embarrass their "friend"

Iran ?
N Korea ?

or inside job ?

of course we will NEVER know
even if US intelligence does find out they will not tell the plebes .

ccp

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suddenly leaked documents are fake news
« Reply #1260 on: April 09, 2023, 12:10:05 PM »
disinformation

from Russia , Ukraine , USA , France , Musk

who knew who knows ?

not to worry

our intelligence has this under total control .....     :roll:

still waiting to hear about the hobby balloons Biden the Great ripped  out the sky in a show of military prowess sending message around the globe the US is not to be messed with ..

hard not to be totally cynical and sarcastic these days.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2023/04/08/now-both-ukraine-and-russia-say-leaked-u-s-intelligence-assessments-of-war-are-photoshop-fakes/

G M

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Re: suddenly leaked documents are fake news
« Reply #1261 on: April 09, 2023, 12:50:44 PM »
"hard not to be totally cynical and sarcastic these days."

This is the way.



disinformation

from Russia , Ukraine , USA , France , Musk

who knew who knows ?

not to worry

our intelligence has this under total control .....     :roll:

still waiting to hear about the hobby balloons Biden the Great ripped  out the sky in a show of military prowess sending message around the globe the US is not to be messed with ..

hard not to be totally cynical and sarcastic these days.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2023/04/08/now-both-ukraine-and-russia-say-leaked-u-s-intelligence-assessments-of-war-are-photoshop-fakes/

Crafty_Dog

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Well, this is interesting
« Reply #1262 on: April 11, 2023, 06:40:03 AM »
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-spying-zelensky-heres-whats-known-so-far-leaked-intelligence-files?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=1393

US Is Spying On Zelensky: Here's What's Known So Far From The Leaked Intelligence Files
Tyler Durden's Photo
BY TYLER DURDEN
MONDAY, APR 10, 2023 - 09:22 PM
The highly classified Pentagon documents which were leaked online in recent weeks, but which began being confirmed and reported as authentic by The New York Times and others only in the past few days, contain some embarrassing revelations. This has sent DOJ and US intelligence officials scrambling to discover the source of the leaks.

CNN is confirming Monday based on one of the documents which appeared online that the US has been spying on Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky - a disclosure which has caused officials in Kiev to be "deeply frustrated".





"One document reveals that the US has been spying on Zelensky," CNN reports. "That is unsurprising, said the source close to Zelensky, but Ukrainian officials are deeply frustrated about the leak."

The US intelligence document suggests that American officials have been worried about possible Zelensky decision-making to strike deep into Russian territory, which would escalate the war and potentially bring Russian and NATO into direct clashes:

The US intelligence report, which is sourced to signals intelligence, says that Zelensky in late February "suggested striking Russian deployment locations in Russia’s Rostov Oblast" using unmanned aerial vehicles, since Ukraine does not have long-range weapons capable of reaching that far.

An additional possibility is that the US intelligence community might be monitoring the Ukrainian presidency's office as part of efforts to oversee and account for how the tens of billions in aid sent to Kiev is being utilized.

The Washington Post details that "many of the documents seem to have been prepared over the winter for Gen. Mark A. Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and other senior military officials, but they were available to other U.S. personnel and contract employees with the requisite security clearances."


Here are 14 more major revelations contained within the leaked intel document trove based on various media sources:

Locations of CIA recruitment efforts focused on human agents which have access to closed-door conversations of world leaders
Russia's Wagner Group tried to obtain weapons from a NATO member: Turkey. Also, some of the internal future plans of Wagner are apparently known to US intelligence
Details of sensitive satellite technology used to track Russian forces, namely the "LAPIS time-series video" - described as an advanced satellite system, which up until now has been a closely guarded secret
Ukraine battlefield assessments prepared by the Pentagon
The Guardian: "One slide suggested that a small contingent of less than a hundred special operations personnel from NATO members France, America, Britain, and Latvia were already active in Ukraine."
Descriptions of intelligence collection activities by the CIA, NSA, the Defense Intelligence Agency, law enforcement agencies and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO)
One Feb. 23 review of the battlefield situation in Ukraine’s Donbas forecasts a "grinding campaign of attrition" by Russia that "is likely heading toward a stalemate, thwarting Moscow’s goal to capture the entire region in 2023."
WaPo: "The U.S. intelligence community has penetrated the Russian military and its commanders so deeply that it can warn Ukraine in advance of attacks and reliably assess the strengths and weaknesses of Russian forces."
WaPo: "A single page in the leaked trove reveals that the U.S. intelligence community knew the Russian Ministry of Defense had transmitted plans to strike Ukrainian troop positions in two locations on a certain date in February and that Russian military planners were preparing strikes on a dozen energy facilities and an equal number of bridges in Ukraine."
WaPo: A summary of analysis from the CIA’s World Intelligence Review, a daily publication for senior policymakers, says that Beijing is likely to view attacks by Ukraine deep inside Russian territory as "an opportunity to cast NATO as the aggressor," and that China could increase its support to Russia if it felt the attacks were "significant."
Ukraine's robust Soviet-era air defenses -- which have thus far minimized the participation of Russian aircraft - could run out of ammunition in next several weeks. 
A purported CIA intelligence update -- claims Israel's Mossad supported protests against Prime Minister Netanyahu's Supreme Court reform scheme.
One report says internal discussions show that South Korean officials are wary of requests to hand over artillery shells to the United States to replenish American stockpiles, out of concern they'd end up in Ukraine.
Another report says that Ukrainian Air Defense is in peril if it's not reinforced by Western allies
Meanwhile, the expanding breadth of subject matter has many suggesting a US source is responsible. It's being called "a nightmare for the Five Eyes" - and could damage intelligence-sharing relationships between the US and its partner countries.


The breach could also prove embarrassing for Russia as it deals with the claims that US intelligence has deeply penetrated some key areas of government, such as the Defense Ministry.

"The focus now is on this being a U.S. leak, as many of the documents were only in U.S. hands," former Pentagon official Michael Mulroy told Reuters. As opposed to electronic downloads, it appears most or all of these leaks are in the form of photographs of paper documents.



« Last Edit: April 11, 2023, 12:19:32 PM by Crafty_Dog »

G M

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Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1264 on: April 11, 2023, 12:21:10 PM »
Weirdness when I click on that.  May I ask you to paste please?

G M

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Ukraine is totally winning!
« Reply #1265 on: April 11, 2023, 12:56:41 PM »
https://ace.mu.nu/archives/403951.php

Maybe the plucky Ukrainian rebels will steal the Death Star plans from Darth Putin!


Crafty_Dog

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Seymor Hersh: Corruption Quagmire
« Reply #1267 on: April 12, 2023, 11:16:11 AM »

ya

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1268 on: April 13, 2023, 04:02:47 AM »
 The leaks are to prepare for withdrawal of US support to Ukraine and focus on China. I sense the Biden admin is realizing that the war has gone badly for the US (its a proxy war), their calculations went awry. They had expected that after arming and prepping Ukr from 2014 onwards, kicking Russia out of SWIFT, stealing their money, sanctions would collapse Russia.

- It is clear that Ukr will not win. Russia will drag out the war and win a war of attrition, or use heavier weapons and destroy Ukr. Trillion plus will be required to rebuild Ukr. Ukr cannot survive, its lost half its working population. The EU will pay the price. Russia might not stop until they get Odessa.

- Kicking Russia out of SWIFT and stealing their US$ deposits has not had the expected result. Russia survived that, but now the whole world is trying their best to move away from the dollar.

- US has lost influence in the Middle East. MBS (Mr Bone Saw) is mighty displeased with Biden, he is working with Xi to get rid of US influence. Note the recent amity between Saudis and Iran, as well as Yemen (Houthis) and Saudis under Chinese leadership.

- Overall, there is a feeling in the Global South, particularly in Africa that the west (EU) only exploits them. There are several videos where Macron was insulted by host Africans, same for the German ambassador (got kicked out with 48 hr notice).

- Biden is realizing that this is the beginning of the end of US dominance, France is pushing back on the USA with respect to supplying more weapons to Ukr. They know, Russian sanctions will deindustrialize Europe. Cheap gas and energy is needed for their continued success, while the EU can buy gas/oil from the middle east, they are paying a more expensive price, which ultimately is passed on to consumers leading to inflation.

Looks like Mission Accomplished is coming soon.

ya

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Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1270 on: April 13, 2023, 05:49:45 AM »
YA:  Paywall blocked for me on the WaPo article.

Your analysis seems astute to me, but I don't fully follow this:

"They had expected that after arming and prepping Ukr from 2014 onwards, kicking Russia out of SWIFT, stealing their money, sanctions would collapse Russia."

Are you including Trump in this analysis?



ccp

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Re: Ukrainea
« Reply #1273 on: April 13, 2023, 07:22:03 AM »
Seymour Hersh picked up My Lai?

I didn't know that
I remember that

the media went hog wild with that story

completely different from today
when media no longer does their real job - journalism
and instead operates as propaganda outlet for Democrats

it is almost as if the Dems and MSM are circulating their networks insync  :wink:


ccp

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Eric Bolling interview of John Bolton
« Reply #1275 on: April 13, 2023, 08:32:48 AM »
worth a listen

even through Bolton has lost some credibility :

https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/john-bolton-china-russia/2023/04/12/id/1115979/

Crafty_Dog

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FP: The West needs a new strategy in Ukraine
« Reply #1276 on: April 13, 2023, 08:54:28 AM »
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/russia-richard-haass-west-battlefield-negotiations?utm_medium=newsletters&utm_source=fatoday&utm_campaign=The%20West%20Needs%20a%20New%20Strategy%20in%20Ukraine&utm_content=20230413&utm_term=FA%20Today%20-%20112017

The West Needs a New Strategy in Ukraine
A Plan for Getting From the Battlefield to the Negotiating Table
By Richard Haass and Charles Kupchan
April 13, 2023


https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/russia-richard-haass-west-battlefield-negotiations

After just over a year, the war in Ukraine has turned out far better for Ukraine than most predicted. Russia’s effort to subjugate its neighbor has failed. Ukraine remains an independent, sovereign, functioning democracy, holding on to roughly 85 percent of the territory it controlled before Russia’s 2014 invasion. At the same time, it is difficult to feel sanguine about where the war is headed. The human and economic costs, already enormous, are poised to climb as both Moscow and Kyiv ready their next moves on the battlefield. The Russian military’s numerical superiority likely gives it the ability to counter Ukraine’s greater operational skill and morale, as well as its access to Western support. Accordingly, the most likely outcome of the conflict is not a complete Ukrainian victory but a bloody stalemate.

Against this backdrop, calls for a diplomatic end to the conflict are understandably growing. But with Moscow and Kyiv both vowing to keep up the fight, conditions are not yet ripe for a negotiated settlement. Russia seems determined to occupy a larger chunk of the Donbas. Ukraine appears to be preparing an assault to break the land bridge between the Donbas and Crimea, clearing the way, as Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky often asserts, for Ukraine to fully expel Russian forces and restore its territorial integrity.

The West needs an approach that recognizes these realities without sacrificing its principles. The best path forward is a sequenced two-pronged strategy aimed at first bolstering Ukraine’s military capability and then, when the fighting season winds down late this year, ushering Moscow and Kyiv from the battlefield to the negotiating table. The West should start by immediately expediting the flow of weapons to Ukraine and increasing their quantity and quality. The goal should be to bolster Ukraine’s defenses while making its coming offensive as successful as possible, imposing heavy losses on Russia, foreclosing Moscow’s military options, and increasing its willingness to contemplate a diplomatic settlement. By the time Ukraine’s anticipated offensive is over, Kyiv may also warm up to the idea of a negotiated settlement, having given its best shot on the battlefield and facing growing constraints on both its own manpower and help from abroad.

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The second prong of the West’s strategy should be to roll out later this year a plan for brokering a cease-fire and a follow-on peace process aimed at permanently ending the conflict. This diplomatic gambit may well fail. Even if Russia and Ukraine continue to take significant losses, one or both of them may prefer to keep fighting. But as the war’s costs mount and the prospect of a military stalemate looms, it is worth pressing for a durable truce, one that could prevent renewed conflict and, even better, set the stage for a lasting peace.   

THE WAR THAT WILL NOT END
For now, a diplomatic resolution to the conflict is out of reach. Russian President Vladimir Putin likely worries that if he stops fighting now, Russians will fault him for launching a costly, futile war. After all, Russian forces do not completely control any of the four oblasts that Moscow unilaterally annexed last September, NATO has grown bigger and stronger, and Ukraine is more alienated than ever from Russia. Putin seems to believe that time is on his side, calculating that he can ride out economic sanctions, which have failed to strangle the Russian economy, and maintain popular support for the war, an operation that, according to polls from the Levada Center, more than 70 percent of Russians still back. Putin doubts the staying power of Ukraine and its Western supporters, expecting that their resolve will wane. And he surely calculates that as his new conscripts enter the fight, Russia should be able to expand its territorial gains, allowing him to declare that he has substantially expanded Russia’s borders when the fighting stops.

Ukraine is also in no mood to settle. The country’s leadership and public alike understandably seek to regain control of all the territory Russia has occupied since 2014, including Crimea. Ukrainians also want to hold Moscow accountable for Russian forces’ war crimes and make it pay for the immense costs of reconstruction. Besides, Kyiv has good reason to doubt whether Putin can be trusted to abide by any peace deal. Rather than looking to the West for diplomatic intervention, then, Ukrainian leaders are asking for more military and economic help. The United States and Europe have provided considerable intelligence, training, and hardware, but they have held off providing military systems of even greater capability, such as long-range missiles and advanced aircraft, for fear that doing so would provoke Russia to escalate, whether by using a nuclear weapon in Ukraine or deliberately attacking the troops or territory of a NATO member.

Although Washington is right to keep a watchful eye on the risk of escalation, its concerns are overblown. Western policy is caught between the goals of preventing catastrophic failure (in which an under-armed Ukraine is swallowed by Russia) and catastrophic success (in which an over-armed Ukraine leads a cornered Putin to escalate). But it is difficult to see what Russia would gain from escalation. Expanding the war by attacking a NATO member would not be in Russia’s interests, since the country is having a hard enough time fighting Ukraine alone, and its forces are severely depleted after a year of war. Nor would using nuclear weapons serve it well. A nuclear attack would likely prompt NATO to enter the war directly and decimate Russian positions throughout Ukraine. It could also alienate China and India, both of which have warned Russia against the use of nuclear weapons.

But the implausibility of nuclear use isn’t the only reason the West should discount Russia’s posturing; giving in to nuclear blackmail would also signal to other countries that such threats work, setting back the nonproliferation agenda and weakening deterrence. China, for instance, might conclude that nuclear threats can deter the United States from coming to Taiwan’s defense in the event of a Chinese attack.


A destroyed vehicle in Chasiv Yar, Ukraine, April 2023
A destroyed vehicle in Chasiv Yar, Ukraine, April 2023
Kai Pfaffenbach / Reuters
It is thus time for the West to stop deterring itself and start giving Ukraine the tanks, long-range missiles, and other weapons it needs to wrest back control of more of its territory in the coming months. European countries have begun to deliver Leopard tanks, and the United States has pledged 31 Abrams tanks, which are scheduled to arrive in the fall. But both sides of the Atlantic should increase the size and the tempo of deliveries. More tanks would enhance Ukrainian forces’ ability to punch through Russia’s defensive lines in Ukraine’s south. Long-range missiles—namely, the Army Tactical Missile System, or ATACMS, which the United States has so far refused to provide—would allow Ukraine to hit Russian positions, command posts, and ammunition depots deep in Russian-held territory, preparing the way for a more successful Ukrainian offensive. The U.S. military should also begin training Ukrainian pilots to fly F-16s. Training would take time, but starting it now would allow the United States to deliver advanced aircraft when the pilots are ready, sending a signal to Russia that Ukraine’s ability to wage war is on an upward trajectory.

Yet for all the good that greater Western military help would do, it is unlikely to change the fundamental reality that this war is headed for stalemate. It is of course possible that Ukraine’s coming offensive proves stunningly successful and allows the country to reclaim all occupied territory, including Crimea, resulting in a complete Russian defeat. But such an outcome is improbable. Even if the West steps up its military assistance, Ukraine is poised to fall well short of vanquishing Russian forces. It is running out of soldiers and ammunition, and its economy continues to deteriorate. Russian troops are dug in, and fresh recruits are heading to the front.

Moreover, if Moscow’s military position were to become precarious, it is quite possible that China would provide arms to Russia, whether directly or through third countries. Chinese President Xi Jinping has made a big, long-term wager on Putin and will not stand idly by as Russia suffers a decisive loss. Xi’s visit to Moscow in March strongly suggests that he is doubling down on his partnership with Putin, not backing away from it. Xi might also calculate that the risks of providing military assistance to Russia are modest. After all, his country is already decoupling from the West, and U.S. policy toward China seems destined to get tougher regardless of how much Beijing supports Moscow.

Ramping up the provision of military assistance to Ukraine, while it will help Ukrainian forces make progress on the battlefield, thus holds little promise of enabling Kyiv to restore full territorial integrity. Later this year, a stalemate is likely to emerge along a new line of contact. When that happens, an obvious question will arise: What next?

AFTER STALEMATE
More of the same makes little sense. Even from Ukraine’s perspective, it would be unwise to keep doggedly pursuing a full military victory that could prove Pyrrhic. Ukrainian forces have already suffered over 100,000 casualties and lost many of their best troops. The Ukrainian economy has shrunk by some 30 percent, the poverty rate is spiking, and Russia continues to bombard the country’s critical infrastructure. Around eight million Ukrainians have fled the country, with millions more internally displaced. Ukraine should not risk destroying itself in pursuit of goals that are likely out of reach.

Come the end of this fighting season, the United States and Europe will also have good reason to abandon their stated policy of supporting Ukraine for “as long as it takes,” as U.S. President Joe Biden has put it. Maintaining Ukraine’s existence as a sovereign and secure democracy is a priority, but achieving that goal does not require the country to recover full control of Crimea and the Donbas in the near term. Nor should the West worry that pushing for a cease-fire before Kyiv reclaims all its territory will cause the rules-based international order to crumble. Ukrainian fortitude and Western resolve have already rebuffed Russia’s effort to subjugate Ukraine, dealt Moscow a decisive strategic defeat, and demonstrated to other would-be revisionists that pursuing territorial conquest can be a costly and vexing enterprise. Yes, it is critical to minimize Russian gains and demonstrate that aggression doesn’t pay, but this goal must be weighed against other priorities.

The reality is that continued large-scale support of Kyiv carries broader strategic risks. The war is eroding the West’s military readiness and depleting its weapons stockpiles; the defense industrial base cannot keep up with Ukraine’s expenditure of equipment and ammunition. NATO countries cannot discount the possibility of direct hostilities with Russia, and the United States must prepare for potential military action in Asia (to deter or respond to any Chinese move against Taiwan) and in the Middle East (against Iran or terrorist networks).

The war is imposing high costs on the global economy, as well. It has disrupted supply chains, contributing to high inflation and energy and food shortages. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development estimates that the war will reduce global economic output by $2.8 trillion in 2023. From France to Egypt to Peru, economic duress is triggering political unrest. The war is also polarizing the international system. As geopolitical rivalry between the Western democracies and a Chinese-Russian coalition augurs the return of a two-bloc world, most of the rest of the globe is sitting on the sidelines, preferring nonalignment to ensnarement in a new era of East-West rivalry. Disorder is radiating outward from the war in Ukraine.

Against this backdrop, neither Ukraine nor its NATO supporters can take Western unity for granted. American resolve is crucial for European staying power, but Washington faces mounting political pressure to reduce spending, rebuild U.S. readiness, and bulk up its capabilities in Asia. Now that Republicans control the House of Representatives, it will be harder for the Biden administration to secure sizable aid packages for Ukraine. And policy toward Ukraine could change significantly should Republicans win the White House in the 2024 election. It is time to ready a Plan B.

GETTING TO YES
Given the likely trajectory of the war, the United States and its partners need to begin formulating a diplomatic endgame now. Even as NATO members ramp up military assistance in support of Ukraine’s coming offensive, Washington should start consultations with its European allies and with Kyiv on a diplomatic initiative to be launched later in the year.

Under this approach, Ukraine’s Western supporters would propose a cease-fire as Ukraine’s coming offensive reaches its limits. Ideally, both Ukraine and Russia would pull back their troops and heavy weapons from the new line of contact, effectively creating a demilitarized zone. A neutral organization—either the UN or the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe—would send in observers to monitor and enforce the cease-fire and pullback. The West should approach other influential countries, including China and India, to support the cease-fire proposal. Doing so would complicate diplomacy, but getting buy-in from Beijing and New Delhi would increase the pressure on the Kremlin. In the event that China refused to support the cease-fire, Xi’s ongoing calls for a diplomatic offensive would be exposed as an empty gesture.

Assuming a cease-fire holds, peace talks should follow. Such talks should occur along two parallel tracks. On one track would be direct talks between Ukraine and Russia, facilitated by international mediators, on the terms of peace. On the second track, NATO allies would start a strategic dialogue with Russia on arms control and the broader European security architecture. Putin’s effort to undo the post–Cold War security order has backfired and ended up strengthening NATO. But that reality only increases the need for NATO and Russia to begin a constructive dialogue to prevent a new arms race, rebuild military-to-military contacts, and address other issues of common concern, including nuclear proliferation. The “2 plus 4” talks that helped end the Cold War provide a good precedent for this approach. East and West Germany negotiated their unification directly, while the United States, the United Kingdom, France, and the Soviet Union negotiated the broader post–Cold War security architecture.

Provided that Ukraine makes battlefield gains this summer, it is at least plausible that Putin would view a cease-fire and peace plan as a face-saving off-ramp. To make this approach even more enticing, the West could also offer some limited relief from sanctions in return for Russia’s willingness to abide by a cease-fire, agree to a demilitarized zone, and participate meaningfully in peace talks. It is of course conceivable that Putin would reject a cease-fire—or accept it only for the purpose of rebuilding his military and making a later run at conquering Ukraine. But little would be lost by testing Moscow’s readiness for compromise. Regardless of Russia’s response, the West would continue to provide the arms Ukraine needs to defend itself over the long term and make sure that any pause in the fighting did not work to Russia’s advantage. And if Russia rejected a cease-fire (or accepted one and then violated it), its intransigence would deepen its diplomatic isolation, shore up the sanctions regime, and strengthen support for Ukraine in the United States and Europe.

Another plausible outcome is that Russia would agree to a cease-fire in order to pocket its remaining territorial gains but in fact has no intention of negotiating in good faith to secure a lasting peace settlement. Presumably, Ukraine would enter such negotiations by demanding its top priorities: the restoration of its 1991 borders, substantial reparations, and accountability for war crimes. But because Putin would surely reject these demands out of hand, a prolonged diplomatic stalemate would then emerge, effectively producing a new frozen conflict. Ideally, the cease-fire would hold, leading to a status quo like the one that prevails on the Korean Peninsula, which has remained largely stable without a formal peace pact for 70 years. Cyprus has similarly been divided but stable for decades. This is not an ideal outcome, but it is preferable to a high-intensity war that continues for years.

CONVINCING KYIV
Persuading Kyiv to go along with a cease-fire and uncertain diplomatic effort could be no less challenging than getting Moscow to do so. Many Ukrainians would see this proposal as a sellout and fear that the cease-fire lines would merely become new de facto borders. Zelensky would need to dramatically scale back his war aims after having promised victory since the early months of the war—no easy task for even the most talented of politicians.

But Kyiv may ultimately find much to like in the plan. Even though the end of fighting would freeze in place a new line of contact between Russia and Ukraine, Kyiv would not be asked or pressured to give up the goal of taking back all of its land, including Crimea and the Donbas. Rather, the plan would be to defer settling the status of the land and people still under Russian occupation. Kyiv would forgo an attempt to retake these territories by force now, a gambit that would surely be costly but is likely to fail, instead accepting that the recovery of territorial integrity must await a diplomatic breakthrough. A breakthrough, in turn, may be possible only after Putin is no longer in power. In the meantime, Western governments could promise to fully lift sanctions against Russia and normalize relations with it only if Moscow signed a peace agreement that was acceptable to Kyiv.

This formula thus blends strategic pragmatism with political principle. Peace in Ukraine cannot be held hostage to war aims that, however morally justified, are likely unattainable. At the same time, the West should not reward Russian aggression by compelling Ukraine to permanently accept the loss of territory by force. Ending the war while deferring the ultimate disposition of land still under Russian occupation is the solution.


Under the best of circumstances, Ukrainians have tough days ahead of them.
Even if a cease-fire held and a diplomatic process got underway, NATO countries should continue to arm Ukraine, removing any doubts in Kyiv that its compliance with a diplomatic roadmap would mean the end of military support. Moreover, the United States could make clear to Kyiv that if Putin violated the cease-fire while Ukraine honored it, Washington would further step up the flow of arms and waive restrictions on Ukraine’s ability to target military positions inside Russia from which attacks are being launched. Should Putin spurn a clear opportunity to end the war, Western governments would win renewed public favor for providing such additional support to Ukraine.

As another incentive to Ukraine, the West should offer it a formalized security pact. Although NATO is unlikely to offer membership to Ukraine—a consensus within the alliance appears out of reach for now—a subset of NATO members, including the United States, could conclude a security agreement with Ukraine that pledges it adequate means of self-defense. This security pact, although it would fall short of an ironclad security guarantee, might resemble Israel’s defense relationship with the United States or the relationship that Finland and Sweden enjoyed with NATO before they decided to join the alliance. The pact might also include a provision similar to Article 4 of the NATO treaty, which calls for consultations when any party judges its territorial integrity, political independence, or security to be threatened.

Alongside this security pact, the EU should craft a long-term economic support pact and propose a timetable for admission to the EU, guaranteeing Ukraine that it is on the path toward full integration into the union. Under the best of circumstances, Ukrainians have tough days ahead of them; EU membership would offer them the light at the end of the tunnel that they so deserve to see.

Even with these inducements, Ukraine might still refuse the call for a cease-fire. If so, it would hardly be the first time in history that a partner dependent on U.S. support balked at being pressured to scale back its objectives. But if Kyiv did balk, the political reality is that support for Ukraine could not be sustained in the United States and Europe, especially if Russia were to accept the cease-fire. Ukraine would have little choice but to accede to a policy that gave it the economic and military support needed to secure the territory under its control—the vast majority of the country—while taking off the table the liberation by force of those territories still under Russian occupation. Moreover, the West would continue to use sanctions and diplomatic leverage to restore Ukraine’s territorial integrity—but at the negotiating table, not on the battlefield.

A WAY OUT
For over a year, the West has allowed Ukraine to define success and set the war aims of the West. This policy, regardless of whether it made sense at the outset of the war, has now run its course. It is unwise, because Ukraine’s goals are coming into conflict with other Western interests. And it is unsustainable, because the war’s costs are mounting, and Western publics and their governments are growing weary of providing ongoing support. As a global power, the United States must acknowledge that a maximal definition of the interests at stake in the war has produced a policy that increasingly conflicts with other U.S. priorities.

The good news is that there is a feasible path out of this impasse. The West should do more now to help Ukraine defend itself and advance on the battlefield, putting it in the best position possible at the negotiating table later this year. In the meantime, Washington should set a diplomatic course that ensures the security and viability of Ukraine within its de facto borders—while working to restore the country’s territorial integrity over the long term. This approach may be too much for some and not enough for others. But unlike the alternatives, it has the advantage of blending what is desirable with what is doable

G M

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Re: FP: The West needs a new strategy in Ukraine
« Reply #1277 on: April 13, 2023, 09:18:15 AM »
This article was a steaming pile of stupid.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/russia-richard-haass-west-battlefield-negotiations?utm_medium=newsletters&utm_source=fatoday&utm_campaign=The%20West%20Needs%20a%20New%20Strategy%20in%20Ukraine&utm_content=20230413&utm_term=FA%20Today%20-%20112017

The West Needs a New Strategy in Ukraine
A Plan for Getting From the Battlefield to the Negotiating Table
By Richard Haass and Charles Kupchan
April 13, 2023


https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/russia-richard-haass-west-battlefield-negotiations

After just over a year, the war in Ukraine has turned out far better for Ukraine than most predicted. Russia’s effort to subjugate its neighbor has failed. Ukraine remains an independent, sovereign, functioning democracy, holding on to roughly 85 percent of the territory it controlled before Russia’s 2014 invasion. At the same time, it is difficult to feel sanguine about where the war is headed. The human and economic costs, already enormous, are poised to climb as both Moscow and Kyiv ready their next moves on the battlefield. The Russian military’s numerical superiority likely gives it the ability to counter Ukraine’s greater operational skill and morale, as well as its access to Western support. Accordingly, the most likely outcome of the conflict is not a complete Ukrainian victory but a bloody stalemate.

Against this backdrop, calls for a diplomatic end to the conflict are understandably growing. But with Moscow and Kyiv both vowing to keep up the fight, conditions are not yet ripe for a negotiated settlement. Russia seems determined to occupy a larger chunk of the Donbas. Ukraine appears to be preparing an assault to break the land bridge between the Donbas and Crimea, clearing the way, as Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky often asserts, for Ukraine to fully expel Russian forces and restore its territorial integrity.

The West needs an approach that recognizes these realities without sacrificing its principles. The best path forward is a sequenced two-pronged strategy aimed at first bolstering Ukraine’s military capability and then, when the fighting season winds down late this year, ushering Moscow and Kyiv from the battlefield to the negotiating table. The West should start by immediately expediting the flow of weapons to Ukraine and increasing their quantity and quality. The goal should be to bolster Ukraine’s defenses while making its coming offensive as successful as possible, imposing heavy losses on Russia, foreclosing Moscow’s military options, and increasing its willingness to contemplate a diplomatic settlement. By the time Ukraine’s anticipated offensive is over, Kyiv may also warm up to the idea of a negotiated settlement, having given its best shot on the battlefield and facing growing constraints on both its own manpower and help from abroad.

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The second prong of the West’s strategy should be to roll out later this year a plan for brokering a cease-fire and a follow-on peace process aimed at permanently ending the conflict. This diplomatic gambit may well fail. Even if Russia and Ukraine continue to take significant losses, one or both of them may prefer to keep fighting. But as the war’s costs mount and the prospect of a military stalemate looms, it is worth pressing for a durable truce, one that could prevent renewed conflict and, even better, set the stage for a lasting peace.   

THE WAR THAT WILL NOT END
For now, a diplomatic resolution to the conflict is out of reach. Russian President Vladimir Putin likely worries that if he stops fighting now, Russians will fault him for launching a costly, futile war. After all, Russian forces do not completely control any of the four oblasts that Moscow unilaterally annexed last September, NATO has grown bigger and stronger, and Ukraine is more alienated than ever from Russia. Putin seems to believe that time is on his side, calculating that he can ride out economic sanctions, which have failed to strangle the Russian economy, and maintain popular support for the war, an operation that, according to polls from the Levada Center, more than 70 percent of Russians still back. Putin doubts the staying power of Ukraine and its Western supporters, expecting that their resolve will wane. And he surely calculates that as his new conscripts enter the fight, Russia should be able to expand its territorial gains, allowing him to declare that he has substantially expanded Russia’s borders when the fighting stops.

Ukraine is also in no mood to settle. The country’s leadership and public alike understandably seek to regain control of all the territory Russia has occupied since 2014, including Crimea. Ukrainians also want to hold Moscow accountable for Russian forces’ war crimes and make it pay for the immense costs of reconstruction. Besides, Kyiv has good reason to doubt whether Putin can be trusted to abide by any peace deal. Rather than looking to the West for diplomatic intervention, then, Ukrainian leaders are asking for more military and economic help. The United States and Europe have provided considerable intelligence, training, and hardware, but they have held off providing military systems of even greater capability, such as long-range missiles and advanced aircraft, for fear that doing so would provoke Russia to escalate, whether by using a nuclear weapon in Ukraine or deliberately attacking the troops or territory of a NATO member.

Although Washington is right to keep a watchful eye on the risk of escalation, its concerns are overblown. Western policy is caught between the goals of preventing catastrophic failure (in which an under-armed Ukraine is swallowed by Russia) and catastrophic success (in which an over-armed Ukraine leads a cornered Putin to escalate). But it is difficult to see what Russia would gain from escalation. Expanding the war by attacking a NATO member would not be in Russia’s interests, since the country is having a hard enough time fighting Ukraine alone, and its forces are severely depleted after a year of war. Nor would using nuclear weapons serve it well. A nuclear attack would likely prompt NATO to enter the war directly and decimate Russian positions throughout Ukraine. It could also alienate China and India, both of which have warned Russia against the use of nuclear weapons.

But the implausibility of nuclear use isn’t the only reason the West should discount Russia’s posturing; giving in to nuclear blackmail would also signal to other countries that such threats work, setting back the nonproliferation agenda and weakening deterrence. China, for instance, might conclude that nuclear threats can deter the United States from coming to Taiwan’s defense in the event of a Chinese attack.


A destroyed vehicle in Chasiv Yar, Ukraine, April 2023
A destroyed vehicle in Chasiv Yar, Ukraine, April 2023
Kai Pfaffenbach / Reuters
It is thus time for the West to stop deterring itself and start giving Ukraine the tanks, long-range missiles, and other weapons it needs to wrest back control of more of its territory in the coming months. European countries have begun to deliver Leopard tanks, and the United States has pledged 31 Abrams tanks, which are scheduled to arrive in the fall. But both sides of the Atlantic should increase the size and the tempo of deliveries. More tanks would enhance Ukrainian forces’ ability to punch through Russia’s defensive lines in Ukraine’s south. Long-range missiles—namely, the Army Tactical Missile System, or ATACMS, which the United States has so far refused to provide—would allow Ukraine to hit Russian positions, command posts, and ammunition depots deep in Russian-held territory, preparing the way for a more successful Ukrainian offensive. The U.S. military should also begin training Ukrainian pilots to fly F-16s. Training would take time, but starting it now would allow the United States to deliver advanced aircraft when the pilots are ready, sending a signal to Russia that Ukraine’s ability to wage war is on an upward trajectory.

Yet for all the good that greater Western military help would do, it is unlikely to change the fundamental reality that this war is headed for stalemate. It is of course possible that Ukraine’s coming offensive proves stunningly successful and allows the country to reclaim all occupied territory, including Crimea, resulting in a complete Russian defeat. But such an outcome is improbable. Even if the West steps up its military assistance, Ukraine is poised to fall well short of vanquishing Russian forces. It is running out of soldiers and ammunition, and its economy continues to deteriorate. Russian troops are dug in, and fresh recruits are heading to the front.

Moreover, if Moscow’s military position were to become precarious, it is quite possible that China would provide arms to Russia, whether directly or through third countries. Chinese President Xi Jinping has made a big, long-term wager on Putin and will not stand idly by as Russia suffers a decisive loss. Xi’s visit to Moscow in March strongly suggests that he is doubling down on his partnership with Putin, not backing away from it. Xi might also calculate that the risks of providing military assistance to Russia are modest. After all, his country is already decoupling from the West, and U.S. policy toward China seems destined to get tougher regardless of how much Beijing supports Moscow.

Ramping up the provision of military assistance to Ukraine, while it will help Ukrainian forces make progress on the battlefield, thus holds little promise of enabling Kyiv to restore full territorial integrity. Later this year, a stalemate is likely to emerge along a new line of contact. When that happens, an obvious question will arise: What next?

AFTER STALEMATE
More of the same makes little sense. Even from Ukraine’s perspective, it would be unwise to keep doggedly pursuing a full military victory that could prove Pyrrhic. Ukrainian forces have already suffered over 100,000 casualties and lost many of their best troops. The Ukrainian economy has shrunk by some 30 percent, the poverty rate is spiking, and Russia continues to bombard the country’s critical infrastructure. Around eight million Ukrainians have fled the country, with millions more internally displaced. Ukraine should not risk destroying itself in pursuit of goals that are likely out of reach.

Come the end of this fighting season, the United States and Europe will also have good reason to abandon their stated policy of supporting Ukraine for “as long as it takes,” as U.S. President Joe Biden has put it. Maintaining Ukraine’s existence as a sovereign and secure democracy is a priority, but achieving that goal does not require the country to recover full control of Crimea and the Donbas in the near term. Nor should the West worry that pushing for a cease-fire before Kyiv reclaims all its territory will cause the rules-based international order to crumble. Ukrainian fortitude and Western resolve have already rebuffed Russia’s effort to subjugate Ukraine, dealt Moscow a decisive strategic defeat, and demonstrated to other would-be revisionists that pursuing territorial conquest can be a costly and vexing enterprise. Yes, it is critical to minimize Russian gains and demonstrate that aggression doesn’t pay, but this goal must be weighed against other priorities.

The reality is that continued large-scale support of Kyiv carries broader strategic risks. The war is eroding the West’s military readiness and depleting its weapons stockpiles; the defense industrial base cannot keep up with Ukraine’s expenditure of equipment and ammunition. NATO countries cannot discount the possibility of direct hostilities with Russia, and the United States must prepare for potential military action in Asia (to deter or respond to any Chinese move against Taiwan) and in the Middle East (against Iran or terrorist networks).

The war is imposing high costs on the global economy, as well. It has disrupted supply chains, contributing to high inflation and energy and food shortages. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development estimates that the war will reduce global economic output by $2.8 trillion in 2023. From France to Egypt to Peru, economic duress is triggering political unrest. The war is also polarizing the international system. As geopolitical rivalry between the Western democracies and a Chinese-Russian coalition augurs the return of a two-bloc world, most of the rest of the globe is sitting on the sidelines, preferring nonalignment to ensnarement in a new era of East-West rivalry. Disorder is radiating outward from the war in Ukraine.

Against this backdrop, neither Ukraine nor its NATO supporters can take Western unity for granted. American resolve is crucial for European staying power, but Washington faces mounting political pressure to reduce spending, rebuild U.S. readiness, and bulk up its capabilities in Asia. Now that Republicans control the House of Representatives, it will be harder for the Biden administration to secure sizable aid packages for Ukraine. And policy toward Ukraine could change significantly should Republicans win the White House in the 2024 election. It is time to ready a Plan B.

GETTING TO YES
Given the likely trajectory of the war, the United States and its partners need to begin formulating a diplomatic endgame now. Even as NATO members ramp up military assistance in support of Ukraine’s coming offensive, Washington should start consultations with its European allies and with Kyiv on a diplomatic initiative to be launched later in the year.

Under this approach, Ukraine’s Western supporters would propose a cease-fire as Ukraine’s coming offensive reaches its limits. Ideally, both Ukraine and Russia would pull back their troops and heavy weapons from the new line of contact, effectively creating a demilitarized zone. A neutral organization—either the UN or the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe—would send in observers to monitor and enforce the cease-fire and pullback. The West should approach other influential countries, including China and India, to support the cease-fire proposal. Doing so would complicate diplomacy, but getting buy-in from Beijing and New Delhi would increase the pressure on the Kremlin. In the event that China refused to support the cease-fire, Xi’s ongoing calls for a diplomatic offensive would be exposed as an empty gesture.

Assuming a cease-fire holds, peace talks should follow. Such talks should occur along two parallel tracks. On one track would be direct talks between Ukraine and Russia, facilitated by international mediators, on the terms of peace. On the second track, NATO allies would start a strategic dialogue with Russia on arms control and the broader European security architecture. Putin’s effort to undo the post–Cold War security order has backfired and ended up strengthening NATO. But that reality only increases the need for NATO and Russia to begin a constructive dialogue to prevent a new arms race, rebuild military-to-military contacts, and address other issues of common concern, including nuclear proliferation. The “2 plus 4” talks that helped end the Cold War provide a good precedent for this approach. East and West Germany negotiated their unification directly, while the United States, the United Kingdom, France, and the Soviet Union negotiated the broader post–Cold War security architecture.

Provided that Ukraine makes battlefield gains this summer, it is at least plausible that Putin would view a cease-fire and peace plan as a face-saving off-ramp. To make this approach even more enticing, the West could also offer some limited relief from sanctions in return for Russia’s willingness to abide by a cease-fire, agree to a demilitarized zone, and participate meaningfully in peace talks. It is of course conceivable that Putin would reject a cease-fire—or accept it only for the purpose of rebuilding his military and making a later run at conquering Ukraine. But little would be lost by testing Moscow’s readiness for compromise. Regardless of Russia’s response, the West would continue to provide the arms Ukraine needs to defend itself over the long term and make sure that any pause in the fighting did not work to Russia’s advantage. And if Russia rejected a cease-fire (or accepted one and then violated it), its intransigence would deepen its diplomatic isolation, shore up the sanctions regime, and strengthen support for Ukraine in the United States and Europe.

Another plausible outcome is that Russia would agree to a cease-fire in order to pocket its remaining territorial gains but in fact has no intention of negotiating in good faith to secure a lasting peace settlement. Presumably, Ukraine would enter such negotiations by demanding its top priorities: the restoration of its 1991 borders, substantial reparations, and accountability for war crimes. But because Putin would surely reject these demands out of hand, a prolonged diplomatic stalemate would then emerge, effectively producing a new frozen conflict. Ideally, the cease-fire would hold, leading to a status quo like the one that prevails on the Korean Peninsula, which has remained largely stable without a formal peace pact for 70 years. Cyprus has similarly been divided but stable for decades. This is not an ideal outcome, but it is preferable to a high-intensity war that continues for years.

CONVINCING KYIV
Persuading Kyiv to go along with a cease-fire and uncertain diplomatic effort could be no less challenging than getting Moscow to do so. Many Ukrainians would see this proposal as a sellout and fear that the cease-fire lines would merely become new de facto borders. Zelensky would need to dramatically scale back his war aims after having promised victory since the early months of the war—no easy task for even the most talented of politicians.

But Kyiv may ultimately find much to like in the plan. Even though the end of fighting would freeze in place a new line of contact between Russia and Ukraine, Kyiv would not be asked or pressured to give up the goal of taking back all of its land, including Crimea and the Donbas. Rather, the plan would be to defer settling the status of the land and people still under Russian occupation. Kyiv would forgo an attempt to retake these territories by force now, a gambit that would surely be costly but is likely to fail, instead accepting that the recovery of territorial integrity must await a diplomatic breakthrough. A breakthrough, in turn, may be possible only after Putin is no longer in power. In the meantime, Western governments could promise to fully lift sanctions against Russia and normalize relations with it only if Moscow signed a peace agreement that was acceptable to Kyiv.

This formula thus blends strategic pragmatism with political principle. Peace in Ukraine cannot be held hostage to war aims that, however morally justified, are likely unattainable. At the same time, the West should not reward Russian aggression by compelling Ukraine to permanently accept the loss of territory by force. Ending the war while deferring the ultimate disposition of land still under Russian occupation is the solution.


Under the best of circumstances, Ukrainians have tough days ahead of them.
Even if a cease-fire held and a diplomatic process got underway, NATO countries should continue to arm Ukraine, removing any doubts in Kyiv that its compliance with a diplomatic roadmap would mean the end of military support. Moreover, the United States could make clear to Kyiv that if Putin violated the cease-fire while Ukraine honored it, Washington would further step up the flow of arms and waive restrictions on Ukraine’s ability to target military positions inside Russia from which attacks are being launched. Should Putin spurn a clear opportunity to end the war, Western governments would win renewed public favor for providing such additional support to Ukraine.

As another incentive to Ukraine, the West should offer it a formalized security pact. Although NATO is unlikely to offer membership to Ukraine—a consensus within the alliance appears out of reach for now—a subset of NATO members, including the United States, could conclude a security agreement with Ukraine that pledges it adequate means of self-defense. This security pact, although it would fall short of an ironclad security guarantee, might resemble Israel’s defense relationship with the United States or the relationship that Finland and Sweden enjoyed with NATO before they decided to join the alliance. The pact might also include a provision similar to Article 4 of the NATO treaty, which calls for consultations when any party judges its territorial integrity, political independence, or security to be threatened.

Alongside this security pact, the EU should craft a long-term economic support pact and propose a timetable for admission to the EU, guaranteeing Ukraine that it is on the path toward full integration into the union. Under the best of circumstances, Ukrainians have tough days ahead of them; EU membership would offer them the light at the end of the tunnel that they so deserve to see.

Even with these inducements, Ukraine might still refuse the call for a cease-fire. If so, it would hardly be the first time in history that a partner dependent on U.S. support balked at being pressured to scale back its objectives. But if Kyiv did balk, the political reality is that support for Ukraine could not be sustained in the United States and Europe, especially if Russia were to accept the cease-fire. Ukraine would have little choice but to accede to a policy that gave it the economic and military support needed to secure the territory under its control—the vast majority of the country—while taking off the table the liberation by force of those territories still under Russian occupation. Moreover, the West would continue to use sanctions and diplomatic leverage to restore Ukraine’s territorial integrity—but at the negotiating table, not on the battlefield.

A WAY OUT
For over a year, the West has allowed Ukraine to define success and set the war aims of the West. This policy, regardless of whether it made sense at the outset of the war, has now run its course. It is unwise, because Ukraine’s goals are coming into conflict with other Western interests. And it is unsustainable, because the war’s costs are mounting, and Western publics and their governments are growing weary of providing ongoing support. As a global power, the United States must acknowledge that a maximal definition of the interests at stake in the war has produced a policy that increasingly conflicts with other U.S. priorities.

The good news is that there is a feasible path out of this impasse. The West should do more now to help Ukraine defend itself and advance on the battlefield, putting it in the best position possible at the negotiating table later this year. In the meantime, Washington should set a diplomatic course that ensures the security and viability of Ukraine within its de facto borders—while working to restore the country’s territorial integrity over the long term. This approach may be too much for some and not enough for others. But unlike the alternatives, it has the advantage of blending what is desirable with what is doable

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1278 on: April 13, 2023, 10:14:10 AM »
I don't disagree haha.

FP is a flunky for the State Dept, globalism etc.

A leading indicator of what the next spiel will be.

ya

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1279 on: April 14, 2023, 04:48:32 AM »
There is a God somewhere, look at Germany and UK.


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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1281 on: April 14, 2023, 08:26:26 AM »
"China ***vows*** not to sell arms to any party in Ukraine war"

 :wink:

G M

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1282 on: April 14, 2023, 09:08:22 AM »
"China ***vows*** not to sell arms to any party in Ukraine war"

 :wink:

We know they are. It’s not even up for debate.

Crafty_Dog

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ET: Given that they have been our cannon fodder, there is a certain logic here
« Reply #1283 on: April 14, 2023, 09:16:23 AM »
Of course, there will be vast amounts of corruption, globalism, etc guiding this should it ever come to pass:

===================================

US to Help Fund Ukraine Reconstruction With Russian Assets: State Department Official
Andrew Thornebrooke
April 13, 2023Updated: April 13, 2023
ET

 

The Biden administration is planning to help fund the $400 billion reconstruction of Ukraine after the Russian invasion ends and to turn the Eastern European nation into a new center for European energy production, according to a senior State Department official.

The United States will help to provide the massive sum by selling of assets seized from Russian oligarchs and providing the proceeds to Ukraine, said Under Secretary of State Victoria Nuland during an April 13 speech at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

“We will help Ukrainian cities and towns and villages so displaced Ukrainians can return home without fear, reunite with their loved ones, and get back to their businesses, their farms, and to the work of building a peaceful democratic future,” Nuland said.

The World Bank estimates that the effort to rebuild Ukraine would cost at least $411 billion over the next decade, though Nuland said that was a “conservative figure,” suggesting the real cost could be far higher.

To that end, Nuland said that the United States was working with its international partners to help fund the massive sum by doing more than merely selling off confiscated Russian goods.

Indeed, she said, the United States is negotiating with the international community to consider using $300 billion in frozen assets from the Russian Central Bank to fund the reconstruction of Ukraine.

The effort will no doubt face hurdles, however, as U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen previously admitted there are “significant legal obstacles” to such seizures.

Currently, the $300 billion in Russian central bank foreign assets frozen by sanctions are held abroad, but remain under Russian ownership.

Nuland connected the effort to the United States’ wider support of Ukraine, saying that rebuilding Ukraine was necessary to ensure that authoritarianism did not spread through Europe.

“The American people have provided extraordinary levels of military, economic, and humanitarian support to Ukraine,” Nuland said.

“Why? Because the American people understand the stakes. That might cannot be allowed to make right.”

Ukraine: The Future of European Energy?
The United States and its allies will also work to leverage the reconstruction of Ukraine towards more strategic, and more profitable, ends.

By rebuilding the Ukrainian energy sector, Europe can effectively replace its dependency on Russia, said Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Laura Lochman.

“Energy is obviously a fundamental element of economic recovery and prosperity going forward anywhere,” Lochman said.

“[But in Ukraine,] the elements are there in terms of the nuclear, the natural gas, biomass. There’s renewables that are already being put in place and plans for much greater deployment of renewables.”

To that end, Lochman said that one goal of reconstruction was to transform Ukraine into “an energy powerhouse for the European region” in such a way as to “strengthen European energy security.”

By investing in Ukrainian energy development, she said, Ukraine could reap up to $70 million a month, all while moving Europe away from destabilizing authoritarian powers.

“That will happen with infrastructure investment in Ukraine,” Lochman said, “and [with] continued adoption of European norms and standards.”

Mark Loughran, Central and Eastern Europe president for the Honeywell Corporation, said that the move was a massive opportunity for both the public and private sectors, in and out of Ukraine.

“To start to make the decisions of what the future would look like, it is clearly imperative that Ukrainians are fully connected to the European grid and able to sell into the European grid,” Loughran said.

“There’s a massive opportunity there. The decisions have to be made about the construct to do that, and about the massive amount of materials that are going to be needed.”

Crafty_Dog

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WSJ: Help Ukraine take Crimea
« Reply #1284 on: April 18, 2023, 06:05:58 AM »
Ukraine Should Take Crimea From Russia
It would be a just outcome and serve America’s interests.
By Luke Coffey
April 17, 2023 6:38 pm ET

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A Russian service member walks at a mobile recruitment center in Crimea, April 15.
PHOTO: ALEXEY PAVLISHAK/REUTERS

As Russia’s war against Ukraine drags on, the risk that fatigued Western policy makers will become desperate to end the fighting at any cost will grow. There are already some suggesting that Kyiv should accept a special status for Crimea that leaves Russian troops there. Such an outcome would amount to geopolitical negligence. Any settlement that doesn’t return Crimea to Kyiv’s control signals to other belligerent powers that military land grabs will be tolerated—setting a dangerous precedent for the 21st century.

Some argue that it’s unclear if Crimea really belongs to Ukraine or Russia. Yet topographically, the peninsula is merely an extension of the Ukrainian steppes, with no natural land connection with the Russian Federation. Crimea’s history is likewise relatively clear. The peninsula has unique political, economic and cultural ties to southern Ukraine—something that various Russian leaders and other political figures have acknowledged for hundreds of years.

When the Soviet Union dissolved and Ukraine re-emerged as an independent state, the international community, including the Russian Federation, recognized Crimea as being part of Ukraine. In the 1991 referendum that led to that independence, every region—including Crimea—voted in favor. On the same day as the referendum, Ukraine also held presidential elections. Not only did a pro-independence candidate win, all six presidential candidates running also supported independence. The message to the world was clear: Every region of Ukraine, including Crimea, supported independence from the Soviet Union. To top it off, Russia was one of the first countries to recognize Ukraine’s independence, beating the U.S. by more than three weeks.

The political support in Crimea for independence sprang from a long history of tight political connection between the peninsula and the rest of southern Ukraine. For much of the period between 1443 and 1783, the Crimean Khanate, the local power, included not only the Crimean Peninsula but also much of the territory between the Dnieper and Donets rivers in Ukraine’s modern-day Kherson, Zaporizhzhia and western Donetsk oblasts. Even after Empress Catherine the Great first annexed Crimea in 1783, it was administratively part of the newly created Taurida Oblast, which included other land that had historically been part of the Khanate and today is part of southern Ukraine.

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The peninsula’s political closeness to southern Ukraine was built on economic and cultural ties of a sort that Crimea hasn’t had with Russia. The simple fact that land naturally connects the peninsula to southern Ukraine—and not to Russia—meant that it made no economic sense to break Crimea off from Ukraine. Moscow knows this. When Nikita Khrushchev reassigned Crimea from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1954, he did so because of “the commonality of the economy, the territorial proximity, and the close economic and cultural ties between the Crimean Oblast and the Ukrainian SSR,” in the words of a contemporaneous Soviet statesman, Mikhail Tarsov. Leaving the peninsula outside Ukrainian control would be a break from history, not a continuation of it.

If Moscow keeps control of Crimea, Russia’s military bases there could launch attacks against the rest of Ukraine while also using the peninsula as a convenient place to refit and refurbish damaged military vehicles for future use. In this way, a continued Russian occupation of Crimea would deter international investors from taking part in Ukraine’s reconstruction efforts because there would always be the possibility of renewed fighting, which would particularly threaten the Ukrainian economy. From the peninsula Moscow can assault Ukraine’s otherwise lucrative global commercial shipping, including the export of grain to Africa and the Middle East.

Returning Crimea to Kyiv is also in America’s interests, whether or not U.S. policy makers care about Ukraine’s territorial integrity. Russian control of the peninsula allows Moscow to launch military action outside the region. Russia already has used its presence in occupied Crimea to launch and support naval operations backing up Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. Russia has shipped hundreds of thousands of tons of grain and wheat from Crimea to Syria to help the Assad regime address food shortages. Russia has also conducted hundreds of trips between Crimea’s port city of Sevastopol and the Russian naval base in Tartus, Syria, to transport military hardware and resupplies.

Ukraine has the momentum and motivation to take this important strategic position out of Russian hands. While nobody outside President Volodymyr Zelensky’s inner circle knows for sure where Ukraine’s next counterattack will hit, one possible location will be in the south, from the Zaporizhzhia region in the direction of Melitopol. Kyiv’s goal would be to drive a wedge between the Russian-occupied city of Mariupol and Crimea’s Isthmus of Perekop. Such a move could be the fastest, most direct way to cut off the Kremlin’s only land bridge from Russia to Crimea. The most northern point of the Molochnyi estuary, which flows up from the Sea of Azov, is only 10 miles south of the center of Melitopol. Between the estuary and the city center run the main roads and rail networks used by Russia to reinforce its front lines in the south. If Ukraine takes the city, it would leave Russian forces without a land route from Russia for resupply or reinforcements.

If Ukrainians are successful at cutting the land bridge, the next step would likely be entering the peninsula itself. Russia knows this, and satellite imagery shows new antitank obstacles and fortified trenches being constructed across Crimea.

All Kyiv needs is Western weapons and munitions. For the sake of stability—within and outside the region—let’s give Ukraine the tools it needs to get the job done now.

Mr. Coffey is a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute.

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1286 on: April 20, 2023, 09:37:35 PM »
Let me see if I have this right:

The hypothesis here is that the Russians are selling oil to Zelensky?!?

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1287 on: April 20, 2023, 10:29:12 PM »
Let me see if I have this right:

The hypothesis here is that the Russians are selling oil to Zelensky?!?

Diesel.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/investigation-ukraine-buys-huge-amounts-of-russian-fuels-from-bulgaria/

There are always workarounds and money to be made.



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« Last Edit: April 22, 2023, 09:49:29 AM by Crafty_Dog »

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1289 on: April 22, 2023, 08:17:45 AM »
Nice find.

The absence of arrogance in the tone of the expression is well received.

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1290 on: April 22, 2023, 09:23:25 AM »
Nice find.

The absence of arrogance in the tone of the expression is well received.

It's a very good article and is very much in line with what some here were saying since festivities kicked off over there.

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From a FB sidebar
« Reply #1292 on: April 29, 2023, 06:02:12 AM »
From a FB sidebar

No one ever said that sanctions would end the war, but when coupled with battlefield loses of men and equipment things don't look good. "The report from the Center for Strategic and International Studies gives stark numbers of Russian military losses – almost 10,000 units of key equipment such as tanks, trucks, artillery pieces and aerial drones, according to one estimate.

But it also says Russia can dip into Cold War-era and older stocks on the front lines to make up in numbers what it may have lost in technology.

“The quality of the Russian military in terms of advanced equipment will likely decline, at least over the near term,” the CSIS report says.

It notes how Russian losses of main battle tanks, especially modern ones, have been severe.

A captured Russian T-72B3 tank awaits repairs on February 13, 2023, at a warehouse in eastern Ukraine.
John Moore/Getty Images
“Moscow is estimated to have lost anywhere from 1,845 to 3,511 tanks one year into the war,” the CSIS report says, with losses of its newer, upgraded T-72B3 main battle tank, first delivered in 2013, noted as especially damaging.

The Netherlands-based open source intelligence website Oryx says it has visual evidence of more than 500 variants of T-72B3 destroyed, damaged, abandoned or captured as of this week.

Western officials, speaking during a briefing Tuesday, also noted the pressure on the Russian tank fleet.

“They’re going backwards in terms of equipment,” the officials said of Russian armor, noting that T-55 tanks, introduced in 1948, are now turning up on the battlefield." Fox news reported that over 230 US tanks and 1,500 other vehicles have reached the Ukraine. Along with the US trained Ukraine soldiers who now know how to use them. Sky News reported the other day that Russia can no longer build tanks because they lack engine parts, so they are trying to retrofit older museum aged tanks with newer optics, and send them off to war. And France 24 is reporting that Russia is short of the men needed to build tanks, plances, and other weapons. Along with the fact that they have had to choose to use the bearing they have to build tanks, or to keep their train rolling stock operational.

I could go on, but now that the war is over a year old, and they have lost almost 50% of their prewar equipment the qualitative edge it might have had is disappearing. Russia is back fighting it's traditional style of warfare. Take a hill with overwhelming man power, even if you loose 50% or more of your fighting men. But this too has a downside, the men now being sent to the field have next to no training, even the tank drivers only have a minimal amount of training. They are driving cold war era tanks, with 17 year old drivers. Who before the war didn't even have drivers licenses.

And this doesn't even include the Russia dead and or wounded. Or the draft age men who have fled the country. The one thing Putin counted on was that NATO and the US would toss in the towel. But, since no one in NATO is actually fighting the war that isn't likely to happen any time soon. The truth is according to US sec. of defense the US wants to see the Russian military, and economic sector destroyed. That is their policy, and they will keep supplying weapons and training to the Ukraine to make sure no matter who wins, Russia loses....I predict that the war will be over before the leaved in the Ukraine turn red and gold. Russia has lost, but everyone in Moscow is afraid to admit it....

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Re: From a FB sidebar
« Reply #1293 on: April 29, 2023, 06:26:51 AM »
Wishful thinking.

From a FB sidebar

No one ever said that sanctions would end the war, but when coupled with battlefield loses of men and equipment things don't look good. "The report from the Center for Strategic and International Studies gives stark numbers of Russian military losses – almost 10,000 units of key equipment such as tanks, trucks, artillery pieces and aerial drones, according to one estimate.

But it also says Russia can dip into Cold War-era and older stocks on the front lines to make up in numbers what it may have lost in technology.

“The quality of the Russian military in terms of advanced equipment will likely decline, at least over the near term,” the CSIS report says.

It notes how Russian losses of main battle tanks, especially modern ones, have been severe.

A captured Russian T-72B3 tank awaits repairs on February 13, 2023, at a warehouse in eastern Ukraine.
John Moore/Getty Images
“Moscow is estimated to have lost anywhere from 1,845 to 3,511 tanks one year into the war,” the CSIS report says, with losses of its newer, upgraded T-72B3 main battle tank, first delivered in 2013, noted as especially damaging.

The Netherlands-based open source intelligence website Oryx says it has visual evidence of more than 500 variants of T-72B3 destroyed, damaged, abandoned or captured as of this week.

Western officials, speaking during a briefing Tuesday, also noted the pressure on the Russian tank fleet.

“They’re going backwards in terms of equipment,” the officials said of Russian armor, noting that T-55 tanks, introduced in 1948, are now turning up on the battlefield." Fox news reported that over 230 US tanks and 1,500 other vehicles have reached the Ukraine. Along with the US trained Ukraine soldiers who now know how to use them. Sky News reported the other day that Russia can no longer build tanks because they lack engine parts, so they are trying to retrofit older museum aged tanks with newer optics, and send them off to war. And France 24 is reporting that Russia is short of the men needed to build tanks, plances, and other weapons. Along with the fact that they have had to choose to use the bearing they have to build tanks, or to keep their train rolling stock operational.

I could go on, but now that the war is over a year old, and they have lost almost 50% of their prewar equipment the qualitative edge it might have had is disappearing. Russia is back fighting it's traditional style of warfare. Take a hill with overwhelming man power, even if you loose 50% or more of your fighting men. But this too has a downside, the men now being sent to the field have next to no training, even the tank drivers only have a minimal amount of training. They are driving cold war era tanks, with 17 year old drivers. Who before the war didn't even have drivers licenses.

And this doesn't even include the Russia dead and or wounded. Or the draft age men who have fled the country. The one thing Putin counted on was that NATO and the US would toss in the towel. But, since no one in NATO is actually fighting the war that isn't likely to happen any time soon. The truth is according to US sec. of defense the US wants to see the Russian military, and economic sector destroyed. That is their policy, and they will keep supplying weapons and training to the Ukraine to make sure no matter who wins, Russia loses....I predict that the war will be over before the leaved in the Ukraine turn red and gold. Russia has lost, but everyone in Moscow is afraid to admit it....

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WSJ
« Reply #1294 on: April 29, 2023, 07:10:22 AM »
https://archive.fo/jZu4c

Wishful thinking.

From a FB sidebar

No one ever said that sanctions would end the war, but when coupled with battlefield loses of men and equipment things don't look good. "The report from the Center for Strategic and International Studies gives stark numbers of Russian military losses – almost 10,000 units of key equipment such as tanks, trucks, artillery pieces and aerial drones, according to one estimate.

But it also says Russia can dip into Cold War-era and older stocks on the front lines to make up in numbers what it may have lost in technology.

“The quality of the Russian military in terms of advanced equipment will likely decline, at least over the near term,” the CSIS report says.

It notes how Russian losses of main battle tanks, especially modern ones, have been severe.

A captured Russian T-72B3 tank awaits repairs on February 13, 2023, at a warehouse in eastern Ukraine.
John Moore/Getty Images
“Moscow is estimated to have lost anywhere from 1,845 to 3,511 tanks one year into the war,” the CSIS report says, with losses of its newer, upgraded T-72B3 main battle tank, first delivered in 2013, noted as especially damaging.

The Netherlands-based open source intelligence website Oryx says it has visual evidence of more than 500 variants of T-72B3 destroyed, damaged, abandoned or captured as of this week.

Western officials, speaking during a briefing Tuesday, also noted the pressure on the Russian tank fleet.

“They’re going backwards in terms of equipment,” the officials said of Russian armor, noting that T-55 tanks, introduced in 1948, are now turning up on the battlefield." Fox news reported that over 230 US tanks and 1,500 other vehicles have reached the Ukraine. Along with the US trained Ukraine soldiers who now know how to use them. Sky News reported the other day that Russia can no longer build tanks because they lack engine parts, so they are trying to retrofit older museum aged tanks with newer optics, and send them off to war. And France 24 is reporting that Russia is short of the men needed to build tanks, plances, and other weapons. Along with the fact that they have had to choose to use the bearing they have to build tanks, or to keep their train rolling stock operational.

I could go on, but now that the war is over a year old, and they have lost almost 50% of their prewar equipment the qualitative edge it might have had is disappearing. Russia is back fighting it's traditional style of warfare. Take a hill with overwhelming man power, even if you loose 50% or more of your fighting men. But this too has a downside, the men now being sent to the field have next to no training, even the tank drivers only have a minimal amount of training. They are driving cold war era tanks, with 17 year old drivers. Who before the war didn't even have drivers licenses.

And this doesn't even include the Russia dead and or wounded. Or the draft age men who have fled the country. The one thing Putin counted on was that NATO and the US would toss in the towel. But, since no one in NATO is actually fighting the war that isn't likely to happen any time soon. The truth is according to US sec. of defense the US wants to see the Russian military, and economic sector destroyed. That is their policy, and they will keep supplying weapons and training to the Ukraine to make sure no matter who wins, Russia loses....I predict that the war will be over before the leaved in the Ukraine turn red and gold. Russia has lost, but everyone in Moscow is afraid to admit it....
« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 07:20:28 PM by Crafty_Dog »

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Polish General Speaks
« Reply #1295 on: April 29, 2023, 01:50:41 PM »
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/we-simply-dont-have-ammo-polish-general-says-can-no-longer-supply-ukraine-warns-russia

https://archive.fo/jZu4c

Wishful thinking.

From a FB sidebar

No one ever said that sanctions would end the war, but when coupled with battlefield loses of men and equipment things don't look good. "The report from the Center for Strategic and International Studies gives stark numbers of Russian military losses – almost 10,000 units of key equipment such as tanks, trucks, artillery pieces and aerial drones, according to one estimate.

But it also says Russia can dip into Cold War-era and older stocks on the front lines to make up in numbers what it may have lost in technology.

“The quality of the Russian military in terms of advanced equipment will likely decline, at least over the near term,” the CSIS report says.

It notes how Russian losses of main battle tanks, especially modern ones, have been severe.

A captured Russian T-72B3 tank awaits repairs on February 13, 2023, at a warehouse in eastern Ukraine.
John Moore/Getty Images
“Moscow is estimated to have lost anywhere from 1,845 to 3,511 tanks one year into the war,” the CSIS report says, with losses of its newer, upgraded T-72B3 main battle tank, first delivered in 2013, noted as especially damaging.

The Netherlands-based open source intelligence website Oryx says it has visual evidence of more than 500 variants of T-72B3 destroyed, damaged, abandoned or captured as of this week.

Western officials, speaking during a briefing Tuesday, also noted the pressure on the Russian tank fleet.

“They’re going backwards in terms of equipment,” the officials said of Russian armor, noting that T-55 tanks, introduced in 1948, are now turning up on the battlefield." Fox news reported that over 230 US tanks and 1,500 other vehicles have reached the Ukraine. Along with the US trained Ukraine soldiers who now know how to use them. Sky News reported the other day that Russia can no longer build tanks because they lack engine parts, so they are trying to retrofit older museum aged tanks with newer optics, and send them off to war. And France 24 is reporting that Russia is short of the men needed to build tanks, plances, and other weapons. Along with the fact that they have had to choose to use the bearing they have to build tanks, or to keep their train rolling stock operational.

I could go on, but now that the war is over a year old, and they have lost almost 50% of their prewar equipment the qualitative edge it might have had is disappearing. Russia is back fighting it's traditional style of warfare. Take a hill with overwhelming man power, even if you loose 50% or more of your fighting men. But this too has a downside, the men now being sent to the field have next to no training, even the tank drivers only have a minimal amount of training. They are driving cold war era tanks, with 17 year old drivers. Who before the war didn't even have drivers licenses.

And this doesn't even include the Russia dead and or wounded. Or the draft age men who have fled the country. The one thing Putin counted on was that NATO and the US would toss in the towel. But, since no one in NATO is actually fighting the war that isn't likely to happen any time soon. The truth is according to US sec. of defense the US wants to see the Russian military, and economic sector destroyed. That is their policy, and they will keep supplying weapons and training to the Ukraine to make sure no matter who wins, Russia loses....I predict that the war will be over before the leaved in the Ukraine turn red and gold. Russia has lost, but everyone in Moscow is afraid to admit it....
« Last Edit: April 29, 2023, 07:23:49 PM by Crafty_Dog »

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Ukraine is totally winning! Deep state backing away from Biden disaster
« Reply #1296 on: May 02, 2023, 03:39:19 PM »
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/why-long-awaited-ukrainian-counteroffensive-delayed

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/we-simply-dont-have-ammo-polish-general-says-can-no-longer-supply-ukraine-warns-russia

https://archive.fo/jZu4c

Wishful thinking.

From a FB sidebar

No one ever said that sanctions would end the war, but when coupled with battlefield loses of men and equipment things don't look good. "The report from the Center for Strategic and International Studies gives stark numbers of Russian military losses – almost 10,000 units of key equipment such as tanks, trucks, artillery pieces and aerial drones, according to one estimate.

But it also says Russia can dip into Cold War-era and older stocks on the front lines to make up in numbers what it may have lost in technology.

“The quality of the Russian military in terms of advanced equipment will likely decline, at least over the near term,” the CSIS report says.

It notes how Russian losses of main battle tanks, especially modern ones, have been severe.

A captured Russian T-72B3 tank awaits repairs on February 13, 2023, at a warehouse in eastern Ukraine.
John Moore/Getty Images
“Moscow is estimated to have lost anywhere from 1,845 to 3,511 tanks one year into the war,” the CSIS report says, with losses of its newer, upgraded T-72B3 main battle tank, first delivered in 2013, noted as especially damaging.

The Netherlands-based open source intelligence website Oryx says it has visual evidence of more than 500 variants of T-72B3 destroyed, damaged, abandoned or captured as of this week.

Western officials, speaking during a briefing Tuesday, also noted the pressure on the Russian tank fleet.

“They’re going backwards in terms of equipment,” the officials said of Russian armor, noting that T-55 tanks, introduced in 1948, are now turning up on the battlefield." Fox news reported that over 230 US tanks and 1,500 other vehicles have reached the Ukraine. Along with the US trained Ukraine soldiers who now know how to use them. Sky News reported the other day that Russia can no longer build tanks because they lack engine parts, so they are trying to retrofit older museum aged tanks with newer optics, and send them off to war. And France 24 is reporting that Russia is short of the men needed to build tanks, plances, and other weapons. Along with the fact that they have had to choose to use the bearing they have to build tanks, or to keep their train rolling stock operational.

I could go on, but now that the war is over a year old, and they have lost almost 50% of their prewar equipment the qualitative edge it might have had is disappearing. Russia is back fighting it's traditional style of warfare. Take a hill with overwhelming man power, even if you loose 50% or more of your fighting men. But this too has a downside, the men now being sent to the field have next to no training, even the tank drivers only have a minimal amount of training. They are driving cold war era tanks, with 17 year old drivers. Who before the war didn't even have drivers licenses.

And this doesn't even include the Russia dead and or wounded. Or the draft age men who have fled the country. The one thing Putin counted on was that NATO and the US would toss in the towel. But, since no one in NATO is actually fighting the war that isn't likely to happen any time soon. The truth is according to US sec. of defense the US wants to see the Russian military, and economic sector destroyed. That is their policy, and they will keep supplying weapons and training to the Ukraine to make sure no matter who wins, Russia loses....I predict that the war will be over before the leaved in the Ukraine turn red and gold. Russia has lost, but everyone in Moscow is afraid to admit it....

Crafty_Dog

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WSJ: A New Masada is born in Ukraine
« Reply #1297 on: May 05, 2023, 12:29:34 PM »
Russian bloggers and Putin propaganda to the contrary, , ,

============================================

A New Masada Is Born in the Ukraine War
The Azov Brigade takes its inspiration from a legendary Jewish battle.
By Bernard-Henri Lévy
May 4, 2023 6:27 pm ET

I met a year ago with Illia Samoilenko, an officer in the Azov Brigade, which for three months kept the Ukrainian city of Mariupol from falling into Russian hands. We were buried 50 yards below ground, speaking in a maze of galleries that were once atomic shelters under Azovstal’s old steel mill. Ammunition and rations were running low. The cold rooms where they kept the dead had lost power. The severely wounded moaned in silence, awaiting the final assault.

In Vladimir Putin’s delirious telling, their persecution was normal and just. He claimed the brigade was filled with neo-Nazis whose termination would liberate Ukraine from its worst elements. That was one of the pretexts for Russia’s invasion. In truth, these men took inspiration from—and modeled the bravery of—one of Judaism’s most legendary battles.

Mr. Samoilenko told me that neither he nor his comrades harbored the slightest doubt that they would die, but they believed it was better to die standing than to live on their knees. If their deaths could slow the advance of Russian troops, he added, they wouldn’t have been in vain.

In this desperate and heroic resistance, I heard the echo of Europe’s past: the siege of Troy, Leonidas the Spartan defying the powerful Persian army, the Battle of Roncevaux Pass in the time of Charlemagne, Madrid in 1936, the Warsaw Ghetto and more.


But Mr. Samoilenko had another image in mind: first-century Masada, where in the Judean desert Roman legions besieged hundreds of Jewish soldiers entrenched behind the high walls of a limestone fortress, opposing the occupier with a magnificent resistance that remains part of the annals of the Jewish people.

There are two significant differences between Masada and Azovstal. The walls of the former were built on a rocky outcrop. With its subterranean galleries and trenches, Azovstal was practically the inverse. Once the resistance fighters of Masada understood that the battle had been lost, they chose to die by their own swords. The men formed a human chain in which each would stab his neighbor—with the last turning his blade on himself. In Azovstal the men received and, resentfully though honorably, obeyed orders to surrender.

Still, in Mr. Samoilenko’s view, it was the same heroism. It was the same bitter joy at the idea that the act of resistance inflicted on the enemy a narcissistic and strategic defeat. It was the same calm, stoic acceptance—devoid of useless rhetoric and with no hint of sacrifice—of inevitable death. And it was the same fundamental choice before the order to surrender, first explained by historian Flavius Josephus: to deny an unworthy enemy the pleasure of killing you with his own hands.

All this is what Mr. Samoilenko came to Israel to say when—thanks to a prisoner exchange—he was liberated in September 2022 by Donetsk separatists who had, by some miracle, spared him. And it’s what the Israelis themselves kept repeating during that visit, initiated by the Israeli Friends of Ukraine, the Nadav Foundation and a group of Israel Defense Forces reservists: “Azovstal is our Masada.”

Far too many Americans and Europeans are taken by the Putinist propaganda that the brigade harbors some strain of neo-Nazism. More precisely, too few take the trouble to listen to researchers such as Vyacheslav Likhachov who have shown that since 2015 the unit has purged any questionable elements who may have indulged the far right in its earliest years.

That’s why I’m happy to recall that conversation from a year ago.

So is Holocaust descendant Volodymyr Zelensky, who on Feb. 24, 2022, had neither tanks nor apparatchiks with which to confront the giant. In the face of Goliath the Philistine and the invasion, he could find nothing to oppose it save for the intelligence of his courage and the power of his strategy. His fight finds parallels in the Hanukkah story: in Judah Maccabee’s stunning victory of weak over strong, humble over arrogant, and over the false brilliance of the profaned temple, where a small lamp continues to flicker. In much the same way as the Jews overcame the Seleucid Empire in the second century B.C., Mr. Zelensky has for 14 months kept at bay an army believed to be one of the world’s most powerful.

If today there is, outside of Israel, a place where the values of Jewish heroism live, it’s Ukraine.

Mr. Lévy is author of “The Will to See: Dispatches From a World of Misery and Hope” and author and director of the documentary “Slava Ukraini.” This article was translated from French by Matthew Fishbane.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2023, 12:31:06 PM by Crafty_Dog »

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Re: WSJ: A New Masada is born in Ukraine
« Reply #1298 on: May 05, 2023, 01:29:21 PM »
Bernard-Henri Lévy

Have you read his other writing?

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/donald-trumps-plot-against-america-480644

Russian bloggers and Putin propaganda to the contrary, , ,

============================================

A New Masada Is Born in the Ukraine War
The Azov Brigade takes its inspiration from a legendary Jewish battle.
By Bernard-Henri Lévy
May 4, 2023 6:27 pm ET

I met a year ago with Illia Samoilenko, an officer in the Azov Brigade, which for three months kept the Ukrainian city of Mariupol from falling into Russian hands. We were buried 50 yards below ground, speaking in a maze of galleries that were once atomic shelters under Azovstal’s old steel mill. Ammunition and rations were running low. The cold rooms where they kept the dead had lost power. The severely wounded moaned in silence, awaiting the final assault.

In Vladimir Putin’s delirious telling, their persecution was normal and just. He claimed the brigade was filled with neo-Nazis whose termination would liberate Ukraine from its worst elements. That was one of the pretexts for Russia’s invasion. In truth, these men took inspiration from—and modeled the bravery of—one of Judaism’s most legendary battles.

Mr. Samoilenko told me that neither he nor his comrades harbored the slightest doubt that they would die, but they believed it was better to die standing than to live on their knees. If their deaths could slow the advance of Russian troops, he added, they wouldn’t have been in vain.

In this desperate and heroic resistance, I heard the echo of Europe’s past: the siege of Troy, Leonidas the Spartan defying the powerful Persian army, the Battle of Roncevaux Pass in the time of Charlemagne, Madrid in 1936, the Warsaw Ghetto and more.


But Mr. Samoilenko had another image in mind: first-century Masada, where in the Judean desert Roman legions besieged hundreds of Jewish soldiers entrenched behind the high walls of a limestone fortress, opposing the occupier with a magnificent resistance that remains part of the annals of the Jewish people.

There are two significant differences between Masada and Azovstal. The walls of the former were built on a rocky outcrop. With its subterranean galleries and trenches, Azovstal was practically the inverse. Once the resistance fighters of Masada understood that the battle had been lost, they chose to die by their own swords. The men formed a human chain in which each would stab his neighbor—with the last turning his blade on himself. In Azovstal the men received and, resentfully though honorably, obeyed orders to surrender.

Still, in Mr. Samoilenko’s view, it was the same heroism. It was the same bitter joy at the idea that the act of resistance inflicted on the enemy a narcissistic and strategic defeat. It was the same calm, stoic acceptance—devoid of useless rhetoric and with no hint of sacrifice—of inevitable death. And it was the same fundamental choice before the order to surrender, first explained by historian Flavius Josephus: to deny an unworthy enemy the pleasure of killing you with his own hands.

All this is what Mr. Samoilenko came to Israel to say when—thanks to a prisoner exchange—he was liberated in September 2022 by Donetsk separatists who had, by some miracle, spared him. And it’s what the Israelis themselves kept repeating during that visit, initiated by the Israeli Friends of Ukraine, the Nadav Foundation and a group of Israel Defense Forces reservists: “Azovstal is our Masada.”

Far too many Americans and Europeans are taken by the Putinist propaganda that the brigade harbors some strain of neo-Nazism. More precisely, too few take the trouble to listen to researchers such as Vyacheslav Likhachov who have shown that since 2015 the unit has purged any questionable elements who may have indulged the far right in its earliest years.

That’s why I’m happy to recall that conversation from a year ago.

So is Holocaust descendant Volodymyr Zelensky, who on Feb. 24, 2022, had neither tanks nor apparatchiks with which to confront the giant. In the face of Goliath the Philistine and the invasion, he could find nothing to oppose it save for the intelligence of his courage and the power of his strategy. His fight finds parallels in the Hanukkah story: in Judah Maccabee’s stunning victory of weak over strong, humble over arrogant, and over the false brilliance of the profaned temple, where a small lamp continues to flicker. In much the same way as the Jews overcame the Seleucid Empire in the second century B.C., Mr. Zelensky has for 14 months kept at bay an army believed to be one of the world’s most powerful.

If today there is, outside of Israel, a place where the values of Jewish heroism live, it’s Ukraine.

Mr. Lévy is author of “The Will to See: Dispatches From a World of Misery and Hope” and author and director of the documentary “Slava Ukraini.” This article was translated from French by Matthew Fishbane.

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no I haven't but
« Reply #1299 on: May 05, 2023, 01:43:19 PM »
Bernard-Henri Lévy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard-Henri_L%C3%A9vy#:~:text=Bernard%2DHenri%20Georges%20L%C3%A9vy%20(%2F,New%20Philosophers)%20movement%20in%201976.

is he happy NOW Biden is president?
the US is spiraling out of control?

probably since he has his stash
since he thinks he is immune
since he is virtue signaler
has the lamb's blood painted over his front door jam

that won't stop the CCP
or real plagues not the fanciful made up plagues of the Bible