Author Topic: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics  (Read 432889 times)

ccp

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1350 on: March 14, 2023, 11:03:33 AM »
"to defeat the global jihad, you must gut Islam"

there are a billion worldwide Muslims ?

what are you suggesting?


G M

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1351 on: March 14, 2023, 11:28:59 AM »
How is that working for Russia?

They are winning.

G M

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1352 on: March 14, 2023, 11:38:22 AM »
"to defeat the global jihad, you must gut Islam"

there are a billion worldwide Muslims ?

what are you suggesting?

What are the 5 pillars of Islam?

ccp

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1353 on: March 14, 2023, 01:51:49 PM »
OK I looked it up
so ?






G M

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1354 on: March 14, 2023, 02:00:20 PM »
OK I looked it up
so ?

So, if the hand of allah failed to stop Mecca from becoming an ocean of radioactive glass, wouldn’t that spark a serious crisis of faith? Maybe Mohammed (piss be upon him) was just a Arab Charles Manson and shaheeds don’t get 40 Virginians…

Crafty_Dog

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1355 on: March 14, 2023, 03:42:29 PM »
C'mon GM, we had YEARS of this conversation in the aftermath of 911.  Look up all the threads on this forum with Islam in the name! 

So please don't talk to us like we are not aware of the depth of the conceptual problems within Islam.

That does not mean we should nuke entire nations of people because they are ruled by fanatical religious despots. 

 

G M

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1356 on: March 14, 2023, 05:41:56 PM »
C'mon GM, we had YEARS of this conversation in the aftermath of 911.  Look up all the threads on this forum with Islam in the name! 

So please don't talk to us like we are not aware of the depth of the conceptual problems within Islam.

That does not mean we should nuke entire nations of people because they are ruled by fanatical religious despots.

And this is why the west is crumbling and we can’t win wars.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1357 on: March 15, 2023, 03:40:33 AM »
Because we did not we nuke entire countries the West is going to fall?!?

G M

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1358 on: March 15, 2023, 05:00:01 AM »
Because we did not we nuke entire countries the West is going to fall?!?

The will to win matters. What was the last actual war we won?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2023, 05:54:26 AM by G M »

ccp

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1359 on: March 15, 2023, 05:32:50 AM »
1992 Gulf war
~1996 Kosovo
destroyed Isis - they were hiding in holes
  yes some still exist. but we immobilized them
  they hide in Pakistan and Afghan I think - Africa
  and now in Texas  :roll:


G M

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1360 on: March 15, 2023, 06:11:04 AM »
1992 Gulf war
~1996 Kosovo
destroyed Isis - they were hiding in holes
  yes some still exist. but we immobilized them
  they hide in Pakistan and Afghan I think - Africa
  and now in Texas  :roll:

Funny post!

ccp

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1361 on: March 15, 2023, 06:32:40 AM »
I almost forgot

Reagan kicked the commies asses in Grenada too!   :-D

G M

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1362 on: March 15, 2023, 06:34:50 AM »
I almost forgot

Reagan kicked the commies asses in Grenada too!   :-D

Now that was a war!

Crafty_Dog

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1363 on: March 15, 2023, 10:31:01 AM »
Alrighty Snarkmaster  :-D

"Because we did not we nuke entire countries the West is going to fall?!?"

"The will to win matters. What was the last actual war we won?"

The will to win matters?  DUH!!!  That said this does not mean that nukes are the answer.




Crafty_Dog

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Chris Christie makes the case
« Reply #1364 on: March 15, 2023, 02:10:49 PM »
“Russia’s aggression against Ukraine is a national security issue that threatens our alliances and our standing in the world. Our objective is to assist Ukraine sufficiently to enable them to defeat Russian forces and restore their sovereignty. This effort is not about regime change in Russia; it is about respecting the sovereignty of free nations. Also, this is a proxy war being waged by Russia’s ally China against the United States. Due to their assistance to Russia and China’s recent action in the Middle East, it would be naive to call this anything but Chinese aggression.  Our allies and our enemies are watching us. It is on us to assist our democratic allies in defending themselves against authoritarian aggression. If we do not, this aggression will spread and the void we leave will be filled by authoritarian regimes like China, Iran, North Korea and an empowered Russia if they triumph over Ukraine.”

Crafty_Dog

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George Friedman prophesy a year later
« Reply #1365 on: March 15, 2023, 02:43:52 PM »
March 15, 2023
View On Website
Open as PDF

    
Ukraine and the Long War
Thoughts in and around geopolitics.
By: George Friedman
Editor’s note: By definition, geopolitics moves slowly. It’s a drawn-out explanation for the long-term trajectory of nations, one that all too often gets lost in the shuffle of our modern news cycles. Those of us who study geopolitics, then, tend to repeat ourselves more than we’d like because a nation’s trajectory changes neither quickly nor dramatically. Its behavior necessarily elicits repetition – and for us, that’s a good thing. But even we welcome the occasional reminder that what we said in the past holds true today, and that when a forecast comes to fruition it benefits our readers not because we said it but because it’s true. With that in mind, we republish a piece written a year ago by George Friedman discussing what a long war in Ukraine will look like. It reads as if it could have been written at any time, as any good geopolitical analysis should.

For as often as it happens, nations typically don’t elect to enter wars if they know they will be long, drawn-out, uncertain and expensive affairs. They enter wars when they think the benefits of winning outweigh the risks, or when they think they have the means to strike decisively enough to bring the war to a quick resolution. Long wars result from consistent and fundamental errors: underestimating the will and ability of an enemy to resist, overestimating one’s own capabilities, going to war for incorrect or insufficient reasons, or underestimating the degree to which a powerful third party might intervene and shift the balance of power.

If a nation survives the first blow, then the probability of a victory increases. This is particularly the case in the long war. The nation initiating the war tends to have committed available force at the beginning, maximizing the possibility of an early victory. The defending power has not yet utilized its domestic forces or those of allies prior to the attack. Therefore, the defender increases its military power much more rapidly than the attacker. The Japanese could not match American manpower or technology over time. The United States underestimated the resilience of the North Vietnamese, even in the face of an intense bombardment of their capital. There are exceptions. The Germans in 1914 failed to take Paris, and in the long war were strangled by the British navy and ground down on the battlefield.

This is not a universal truth, but long wars originate in the attacker's miscalculation, and with some frequency with the attacker moving with the most available force, while the defender, surviving the initial attack, has unused resources to draw upon. It is possible for the long war to grind down the defender's resources and will, but having survived the initial attack, the defender likely has both will and resources to draw on, while the attacker must overcome the fact that it is fighting the enemy’s war, and not the one it planned.

The war in Ukraine is far from over and its outcome is not assured. But it began with a Russian attack that was based on the assumption that Ukrainian resistance would be ineffective, and would melt away once Russia came to town because the Ukrainians were indifferent or hostile to an independent Ukraine. This faulty assumption is evidenced by the relatively casual deployment of Russian armor. It also explains the Russian strategy of both bombing and entering cities. It’s difficult to subdue cities by bombing alone (think London, Hamburg and Hanoi). They are resilient, and the tonnage needed to cripple them is exorbitant. And they are notoriously advantageous for their defenders, who are more familiar with alleyways, roads, dead ends, and so on. The fact that the Russians operated this way indicates that they had low expectations of their enemy. This is to say nothing of Russia’s massive intelligence failure, which misread the enemy. (There are reports that the chief of the FSB intelligence agency's Ukraine unit has been placed under house arrest.) The most important failure was the failure to see that Ukraine would counter with a large, relatively decentralized infantry force.

The protraction of the war allowed the West and its allies to initiate economic warfare against Russia on an unprecedented scale. It takes time to implement economic warfare, and the Russians gave away precious time. Similarly, Moscow didn’t anticipate the substantial military aid that would flow into Ukraine, particularly the kinds that were ideally suited for a light infantry force.

None of this has defeated the Russians, of course, but it has created a crisis. A military force shocked by the inaccuracy of intelligence must determine without confidence in its intelligence what to do next. Russia thus seems to have abandoned the goal to occupy all of Ukraine or even Kyiv, shifting instead to a strategy of creating a land bridge from Russia to Crimea. If there is no military dimension to the future, this is a reasonable retreat for the Russians. But a long, relatively narrow salient – military-speak for a bulge or vector – is vulnerable to many forms of interdiction. This leaves the Russian salient at the mercy of Ukrainian action at the time and place of Kyiv’s choosing.

The question of the long war depends on Russian resources, without which there is nothing to discuss. Russia is apparently short on infantry, or it would not be recruiting and trying to integrate Syrian and other soldiers. The possibility of having forces that don’t speak Russian and haven’t experienced Russian training would only be considered by a force short of manpower. And such a force, depending on how it is integrated and what the mission would be, would be taking a large risk in maintaining large-scale operations.

The problem has thus become political. The initial war plan failed. The Russians are certainly able to continue the war, but they apparently need more people and an overall better logistics system, which is hard to improve in the face of constant combat. The United States, facing the same essential problem, chose to continue the wars in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. The cost was substantial but did not threaten core national security because of the vast oceans between the war and the homeland. The Ukraine war is on Russia’s doorstep, and an extended war, with intensifying distrust of the government, can result in a trained Ukrainian special forces group expanding the fighting into Russia. Russians cannot assume immunity.

It is painful, from a political point of view, for presidents and chiefs of staff to admit failure and cut their losses. The desire to keep trying, coupled with a reluctance to admit failure, carries with it myriad problems. Russian President Vladimir Putin needs an honest intelligence review, but he had one before invading. It was not a lie; it was just wrong. In a long war, the defender has the opportunity to grow strong, and the attacker is likely maxed out in anticipation of victory and the intent to throw everything into it. If Russia has resources not deployed and held in reserve for another possible threat, and doesn’t ruthlessly cut its losses, it will be joining a long line of defeats, from Algiers to Khartoum to Hue.

G M

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1366 on: March 15, 2023, 11:17:16 PM »
Alrighty Snarkmaster  :-D

"Because we did not we nuke entire countries the West is going to fall?!?"

"The will to win matters. What was the last actual war we won?"

The will to win matters?  DUH!!!  That said this does not mean that nukes are the answer.

Oh, perhaps we should try nation building? Maybe give it a half assed try for a few decades then throw up our hands and abandon those that actually fought along side us while shipping masses of unvetted savages to the US and leave billions of weapons and equipment for the Taliban?

Do you teach the same method for knife fighting? Just kind of half-assedly poke the attacker rather than really stabbing them? If I won, I might be criticized!

You win wars by either killing the enemy until they can no longer fight, or they lose the will to fight.

« Last Edit: March 15, 2023, 11:34:17 PM by G M »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1367 on: March 16, 2023, 06:31:44 AM »
You construct straw men.

Nukes ultimately are a answer of genocidal nature.  Not all wars are of genocidal nature.

"You win wars by either killing the enemy until they can no longer fight, or they lose the will to fight."

This is a much better articulation.




G M

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1368 on: March 16, 2023, 06:33:58 AM »
You construct straw men.

Nukes ultimately are a answer of genocidal nature.  Not all wars are of genocidal nature.

"You win wars by either killing the enemy until they can no longer fight, or they lose the will to fight."

This is a much better articulation.

Did we genocide Japan?

Crafty_Dog

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1369 on: March 16, 2023, 06:39:02 AM »
In that we were the only nuclear power, that was not the issue.

In a world of many nations with nukes, the logic changes into MAD vs. First Strike Genocide.

G M

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1370 on: March 16, 2023, 02:49:37 PM »
In that we were the only nuclear power, that was not the issue.

In a world of many nations with nukes, the logic changes into MAD vs. First Strike Genocide.

Do you think Russia or China would have cared if we nuked Mecca 9/12/2001?

China especially would have been cool with it. It would save them some trouble trying to sequence various ethnicities’ DNA for targeted bio weapons.

G M

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Reagan’s rules
« Reply #1371 on: March 16, 2023, 02:51:48 PM »

ccp

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1372 on: March 16, 2023, 03:42:43 PM »
Do you think Russia or China would have cared if we nuked Mecca 9/12/2001?

probably not

but the Pakistanis would not have been happy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#:~:text=Pakistan%20thus%20became%20the%20seventh,achieved%20by%20KRL%20in%201984.

and Iran would not remember that fondly.

you might have hundreds of millions of Muslims joining the terrorist forces

so we could simply nuc them too ?

 :wink:


Crafty_Dog

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1373 on: March 16, 2023, 07:27:53 PM »
Once one does it, others want to do it, and others want to develop the ability to do it.

G M

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1374 on: March 17, 2023, 06:12:22 AM »
Do you think Russia or China would have cared if we nuked Mecca 9/12/2001?

probably not

but the Pakistanis would not have been happy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#:~:text=Pakistan%20thus%20became%20the%20seventh,achieved%20by%20KRL%20in%201984.

and Iran would not remember that fondly.

you might have hundreds of millions of Muslims joining the terrorist forces

so we could simply nuc them too ?

 :wink:

This the same Pakistan that rescued Bin Laden and hid him ?

G M

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1375 on: March 17, 2023, 06:19:52 AM »
Once one does it, others want to do it, and others want to develop the ability to do it.

Despite being 80+ year old technology, and with all the technology purchased /stolen from the west and the islamic world still struggles with it.

I guess generations of cousin marriage has consequences.

As you seem to have forgotten, the core orthodox belief of islam is that the world is to be ruled by them and all jews are to be slaughtered as part of islamic prophecy.

But don't make them mad!
 :roll:

Crafty_Dog

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1376 on: March 17, 2023, 06:59:45 AM »
"As you seem to have forgotten, the core orthodox belief of islam is that the world is to be ruled by them and all jews are to be slaughtered as part of islamic prophecy."

You are capable of a far better level of conversation than this.

Just because we disagree with your call to "Nuke 'em all" does not mean we have forgotten this.   The forgetfulness is yours.  TOGETHER via this forum we have laid one helluva foundation in this regard.


G M

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1377 on: March 17, 2023, 07:08:02 AM »
"As you seem to have forgotten, the core orthodox belief of islam is that the world is to be ruled by them and all jews are to be slaughtered as part of islamic prophecy."

You are capable of a far better level of conversation than this.

Just because we disagree with your call to "Nuke 'em all" does not mean we have forgotten this.   The forgetfulness is yours.  TOGETHER via this forum we have laid one helluva foundation in this regard.

What is your path to victory?

ccp

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I ask the question concerning Ukraine
« Reply #1378 on: March 17, 2023, 07:22:36 AM »
"What is your path to victory?"

I asked this the other day to John Bolton
Mark Levin Lindsay Graham Biden et al

besides the chorus of sending F 16 s to untrained Ukrainian pilots ( and a quick search mentions how Russians have over 1,000 jets and many may be better than F16s )

we need to be sure they can win F16s F 16s F 16s
blah blah blah

does anyone who stops tho think that if we send them say 50 F16 s that will be the end of it.

then it will be cruise missiles , then go ahead and send in missiles drones jets into Russian territory then when that fails then what?

As for nucs on Islamists I would not be able to sleep at night
 I don't want our country to start being mass murderers and then beginning the cycle of nucs -  the downside just too terrible


G M

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Re: I ask the question concerning Ukraine
« Reply #1379 on: March 17, 2023, 07:25:50 AM »
"What is your path to victory?"

I asked this the other day to John Bolton
Mark Levin Lindsay Graham Biden et al

besides the chorus of sending F 16 s to untrained Ukrainian pilots ( and a quick search mentions how Russians have over 1,000 jets and many may be better than F16s )

we need to be sure they can win F16s F 16s F 16s
blah blah blah

does anyone who stops tho think that if we send them say 50 F16 s that will be the end of it.

then it will be cruise missiles , then go ahead and send in missiles drones jets into Russian territory then when that fails then what?

As for nucs on Islamists I would not be able to sleep at night
 I don't want our country to start being mass murderers and then beginning the cycle of nucs -  the downside just too terrible

If you think they won't nuke Israel and the US given the chance, you are going to be very surprised at what is coming.

ccp

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1380 on: March 17, 2023, 08:35:22 AM »
no I won't be surprised

but I don't want to start it.

I mentioned yrs ago
that I thought Obama made a grave error in not allowing Israel to bomb the Iran nuc site(s)

though I admit, from what little I know about it from reading (armchair "expert"),
israel may not have succeeded in demolished hardened bunkers
that we allowed  Iran  to build over  many yrs

So maybe, I don't really know enough to know what I am talking about ......  :|

But I don't trust obamster/& the catsup heir  that is for sure


« Last Edit: March 17, 2023, 08:40:11 AM by ccp »

Crafty_Dog

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The First Step on the Path to Victory
« Reply #1381 on: March 17, 2023, 12:19:29 PM »
"What is your path to victory?"

As best as I can tell we face full spectrum war. 

First order of business is to reclaim control of our border and within our borders.  This will include deporting many millions (and yes the Dreamer principle needs to apply too-- number unknown, but could be in the millions). 

Worth noting well is that the need to deport is not yet part of socially acceptable conversation, even among those clear on the need to assert our border.

How many millions?  The Yale-MIT study (during the Obama years or the Trump years?) is the best of which I am aware and it put the number at 22-24 million.   How many of these are Deamers?  Depends on the criteria of course, but without going down the rabbit hole I'll say I'd put the number at 2 million, but political compromise of up to 5-7 million is acceptable to me.    Add in the 6-7+ million under Biden so far.

IMHO 30 million is a reasonable working number.

In the context of the full spectrum war already under way, it needs to be clearly noted that large groups of military age males from various countries and cultures hostile to America have entered our country.  The working assumption needs to be that some/many of them are under direction from not only the Cartels, but also China, Russia, Iran, Islamofascistsan, etc.

Look at what 19 Saudis, under the direction of certain elements within the Saudi government, accomplished after taking the time to get well integrated!!!

Our supply chains are already diminished and their fragility revealed. 

We are a people divided between Americans and AmINOS-- Americans In Name Only.   In the thralls of collective militant enthusiasm lemming-like they follow the nudges of the forces of the Prog-Goolag-Infowar-Surveillance-Globalist State.   

What do we think will happen here in America if/when conflagrations elsewhere in the world kick off and the fifth columns among us put match to the "objective conditions" of Michael Yon all around us?




 



Crafty_Dog

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WSJ: How America Can Win the Info War
« Reply #1382 on: March 17, 2023, 01:12:54 PM »
How America Can Win the Information War
Confirm Elizabeth Allen, whose office produced a brilliant video called ‘To the People of Russia.’
By Joe Lieberman and Gordon Humphrey
March 17, 2023 2:55 pm ET



When Xi Jinping visits Moscow next week, Vladimir Putin will doubtless ask for weapons to replenish his badly depleted arsenal. Whatever scheme they concoct will further endanger U.S. national security and that of our allies.

A broader danger confronts us in the new axis of evil that spans Europe, the Middle East and Asia. China and Russia have combined with Iran. All three are determined to replace U.S. leadership in the world and to destroy freedom wherever it exists. China’s threats to take Taiwan by force, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and Iran’s threats to “annihilate” Israel raise the possibility of simultaneous aggression. Together, this axis may confront us with one of the most serious challenges ever to our security, values and prosperity.


The threats to global stability and the US homeland are growing. How will the war in Ukraine end? Can China and the US develop a less combative relationship? Join historian and Journal columnist Walter Russell Mead and editorial page editor Paul Gigot for an interactive conversation on the threats to US security.

To prevail, the U.S. must employ every tool of national power. Regrettably, one of the most forceful and inexpensive weapons has withered over the last 20 years: advocacy—the marshaling of truth and fact to persuade foreign audiences. Recall the important part played by the U.S. Information Agency in winning the Cold War. Its Voice of America broadcasts persuaded Soviet citizens that life on our side of the Iron Curtain was better than theirs.

VOA didn’t rely on news alone; it employed editorial writers and even contracted for made-in-Hollywood films. If sole reliance on news sufficed, today’s war criminal and serial violator of human rights, Mr. Putin, wouldn’t stand high in Russian polls. Instead, the U.S. must bring back advocacy meant to persuade. That’s where wits come in.

Defeating propaganda with truthful advocacy is more difficult than in USIA’s heyday. Our adversaries outspend us by orders of magnitude and, using bots and social media, dump disinformation into millions of computers, eyes, ears and brains every day. They have massively stepped up their game. So must we.

Overtaking adversaries requires the president to order explicitly the development of a long-term program of advocacy surpassing that of our adversaries in budget, creativity and technology. Leading such an effort requires an official who is highly experienced in communications and public relations and who has the heft to overcome bureaucratic timidity and inertia. President Biden has nominated precisely such a person, Elizabeth Allen, to be undersecretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs.

Ms. Allen served as deputy communications director at the White House when Mr. Biden was vice president. That background indicates she’ll have the ear of the president whenever the bureaucracy needs a push. That’s vital to success.

The office is charged by law with “detecting and countering disinformation emanating from abroad” and actively advocating the “values and policies of the United States.” The Senate would serve the nation well by speedily confirming Ms. Allen with a bipartisan vote.

While public diplomacy is on the minds of senators, they should join with their colleagues in the House to review thoroughly all aspects of our messaging of foreign citizens. To quote a recent Heritage Foundation paper: “The State Department’s public diplomacy programs abroad are skewed toward fringe aspects of U.S. domestic social issues and away from core, enduring U.S. values. ‘Woke’ diplomacy does not fit within the State Department’s own strategic plan and does not advance U.S. national security.”

As a prototype demonstrating the kind of advocacy that should be produced at scale, consider the first-of-its-kind video made recently by the undersecretary’s office, “To the People of Russia.” It echoes Mr. Biden’s assurance to the Russian people: “You are not our enemy.”

It’s a masterpiece of advocacy, richly illustrated, that begins by recalling the time when as allies the U.S. and Russia won World War II. It speaks of our cooperation in space and compliments the Russian people for their great contributions to the arts and sciences. Toward the end, a clip of Mr. Putin’s war appears, accompanied by the words: “We do not believe this is who you are. We stand with each of you who seeks to build a more peaceful future.” The video played on Telegram, the platform widely used by Russians seeking alternatives to Moscow’s propaganda.

Dmitry Medvedev, a former Russian president and now deputy chairman of the Security Council, was outraged after viewing the video, labeling the U.S. government “sons of bitches” for what he called use of the techniques of Joseph Goebbels. That Mr. Medvedev found the video offensive attests to the Kremlin’s fear of a popular uprising like that in Iran.

The office of undersecretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs hasn’t had a Senate-confirmed occupant in more than five years, which speaks volumes about the neglect of the power of advocacy. To leave so important a national-security post filled by a series of short-term, temporary acting officials is unacceptable.

The U.S. invented the internet and virtual private networks that defy most censorship. Until it gets serious about advocacy it will continue to lose the information war by default. The price is the continuation of a 17-year-long decline in the number of free nations and, ultimately, a sharp decline in the West’s security, freedom and prosperity.


Mr. Lieberman was the Democratic vice-presidential nominee in 2000 and a U.S. senator from Connecticut, 1989-2013. Mr. Humphrey was a Republican U.S. senator from New Hampshire, 1979-90.

ccp

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Byron reflecting back on Iraq war and its shadow casted over today
« Reply #1383 on: March 18, 2023, 08:17:26 AM »
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/twenty-years-after-the-us-invasion-of-iraq

I know , I hear it now

"BUT THIS IS DIFFERENT - EGGS TO ORANGES ! "

 me : maybe

G M

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Re: WSJ: How America Can Win the Info War
« Reply #1384 on: March 18, 2023, 09:53:26 AM »
The corrupted, illegitimate feral government is at war with half the American public.


How America Can Win the Information War
Confirm Elizabeth Allen, whose office produced a brilliant video called ‘To the People of Russia.’
By Joe Lieberman and Gordon Humphrey
March 17, 2023 2:55 pm ET



When Xi Jinping visits Moscow next week, Vladimir Putin will doubtless ask for weapons to replenish his badly depleted arsenal. Whatever scheme they concoct will further endanger U.S. national security and that of our allies.

A broader danger confronts us in the new axis of evil that spans Europe, the Middle East and Asia. China and Russia have combined with Iran. All three are determined to replace U.S. leadership in the world and to destroy freedom wherever it exists. China’s threats to take Taiwan by force, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and Iran’s threats to “annihilate” Israel raise the possibility of simultaneous aggression. Together, this axis may confront us with one of the most serious challenges ever to our security, values and prosperity.


The threats to global stability and the US homeland are growing. How will the war in Ukraine end? Can China and the US develop a less combative relationship? Join historian and Journal columnist Walter Russell Mead and editorial page editor Paul Gigot for an interactive conversation on the threats to US security.

To prevail, the U.S. must employ every tool of national power. Regrettably, one of the most forceful and inexpensive weapons has withered over the last 20 years: advocacy—the marshaling of truth and fact to persuade foreign audiences. Recall the important part played by the U.S. Information Agency in winning the Cold War. Its Voice of America broadcasts persuaded Soviet citizens that life on our side of the Iron Curtain was better than theirs.

VOA didn’t rely on news alone; it employed editorial writers and even contracted for made-in-Hollywood films. If sole reliance on news sufficed, today’s war criminal and serial violator of human rights, Mr. Putin, wouldn’t stand high in Russian polls. Instead, the U.S. must bring back advocacy meant to persuade. That’s where wits come in.

Defeating propaganda with truthful advocacy is more difficult than in USIA’s heyday. Our adversaries outspend us by orders of magnitude and, using bots and social media, dump disinformation into millions of computers, eyes, ears and brains every day. They have massively stepped up their game. So must we.

Overtaking adversaries requires the president to order explicitly the development of a long-term program of advocacy surpassing that of our adversaries in budget, creativity and technology. Leading such an effort requires an official who is highly experienced in communications and public relations and who has the heft to overcome bureaucratic timidity and inertia. President Biden has nominated precisely such a person, Elizabeth Allen, to be undersecretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs.

Ms. Allen served as deputy communications director at the White House when Mr. Biden was vice president. That background indicates she’ll have the ear of the president whenever the bureaucracy needs a push. That’s vital to success.

The office is charged by law with “detecting and countering disinformation emanating from abroad” and actively advocating the “values and policies of the United States.” The Senate would serve the nation well by speedily confirming Ms. Allen with a bipartisan vote.

While public diplomacy is on the minds of senators, they should join with their colleagues in the House to review thoroughly all aspects of our messaging of foreign citizens. To quote a recent Heritage Foundation paper: “The State Department’s public diplomacy programs abroad are skewed toward fringe aspects of U.S. domestic social issues and away from core, enduring U.S. values. ‘Woke’ diplomacy does not fit within the State Department’s own strategic plan and does not advance U.S. national security.”

As a prototype demonstrating the kind of advocacy that should be produced at scale, consider the first-of-its-kind video made recently by the undersecretary’s office, “To the People of Russia.” It echoes Mr. Biden’s assurance to the Russian people: “You are not our enemy.”

It’s a masterpiece of advocacy, richly illustrated, that begins by recalling the time when as allies the U.S. and Russia won World War II. It speaks of our cooperation in space and compliments the Russian people for their great contributions to the arts and sciences. Toward the end, a clip of Mr. Putin’s war appears, accompanied by the words: “We do not believe this is who you are. We stand with each of you who seeks to build a more peaceful future.” The video played on Telegram, the platform widely used by Russians seeking alternatives to Moscow’s propaganda.

Dmitry Medvedev, a former Russian president and now deputy chairman of the Security Council, was outraged after viewing the video, labeling the U.S. government “sons of bitches” for what he called use of the techniques of Joseph Goebbels. That Mr. Medvedev found the video offensive attests to the Kremlin’s fear of a popular uprising like that in Iran.

The office of undersecretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs hasn’t had a Senate-confirmed occupant in more than five years, which speaks volumes about the neglect of the power of advocacy. To leave so important a national-security post filled by a series of short-term, temporary acting officials is unacceptable.

The U.S. invented the internet and virtual private networks that defy most censorship. Until it gets serious about advocacy it will continue to lose the information war by default. The price is the continuation of a 17-year-long decline in the number of free nations and, ultimately, a sharp decline in the West’s security, freedom and prosperity.


Mr. Lieberman was the Democratic vice-presidential nominee in 2000 and a U.S. senator from Connecticut, 1989-2013. Mr. Humphrey was a Republican U.S. senator from New Hampshire, 1979-90.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1385 on: March 18, 2023, 05:17:41 PM »
A potent point GM and with it a deep is revealed.

In so many ways, the WSJ and people of that orientation share many things with us-- with free market and American Creed type thinking front and center.

The way they see the power they seek for this woman being used, actually seems to me like a good message for communicating with Russia and is one worthy of our remembrance and use methinks.

The blind spot is not seeing that the actual use of this power will be quite other than they envision, and once in place will be forever.


Crafty_Dog

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The Age of American Naval Dominance is Over
« Reply #1386 on: March 18, 2023, 05:20:50 PM »
Pasting GM's posting of this in another thread over to here too.

This thought needs to be internalized and all thinking resting on the laurels of the previous era jettisoned.


https://www.realcleardefense.com/2023/03/14/the_age_of_american_naval_dominance_is_over_887126.html

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1388 on: March 22, 2023, 07:24:14 AM »
I have been pounding the table here and elsewhere on the implications of driving Russia into China's arms for quite some time.

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1389 on: March 22, 2023, 07:34:18 AM »
I have been pounding the table here and elsewhere on the implications of driving Russia into China's arms for quite some time.

It will go down as Biden's greatest foreign policy success!


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RANE: What to make of Xi-Putin?
« Reply #1391 on: March 23, 2023, 07:09:12 PM »
What to Make of Xi's Russia Trip and China's Growing Involvement in Ukraine
12 MIN READMar 22, 2023 | 21:38 GMT


Chinese President Xi Jinping's recent meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Moscow confirms the two leaders' mutual desire for deeper economic and political cooperation, as well as Beijing's desire to position itself as a viable mediator in Ukraine and Moscow's desire to freeze the war along current battle lines. Xi arrived in the Russian capital on March 20 for a three-day state visit to Russia. Informal talks between the Chinese president and his Russian counterpart that night lasted nearly five hours. And on March 21, Xi continued talks with Putin in an expanded format, including high-ranking officials from both sides. The two leaders signed joint statements on their comprehensive partnership and their plans to develop key areas of Russian-Chinese economic cooperation by 2030, along with documents on cooperation in various areas, most notably a memorandum of understanding on industrial and infrastructural cooperation in the Russian Far East. Putin and Xi discussed the war in Ukraine, increasing military-technical cooperation between their countries and deepening economic ties, particularly in the energy sphere.

This was Xi's first trip to Russia and his second in-person meeting with Putin since the February 2022 invasion of Ukraine. Among the agreements Putin and Xi signed was an updated protocol to their 1997 bilateral agreement on regular meetings of the heads of government. Updating and enshrining agreements for regular high-level contact may be part of an effort to solidify the increasingly close trajectory of Russia-China relations beyond the country's current two leaders and their personal relationship.

Writing in the Russian government's state newspaper Rossiyskaya Gazeta, Xi said his visit to Russia was aimed at ''strengthening friendship, cooperation and peace,'' adding that he was ''ready, together with [Putin], to outline new plans and measures in the name of opening up new prospects for China-Russia relations.''

On March 20, Xi told Putin that Russia had ''made great strides in its prosperous development'' under his ''strong leadership,'' and that he was ''sure'' Russians would ''strongly support'' Putin in the country's presidential election next year. These remarks suggest that Beijing views Putin's claimed territorial acquisitions in Ukraine as laudable and make the Russian leader particularly worthy of reelection.

While the relationship between China and Russia is mutually beneficial, Moscow is increasingly tying its economic and political fate to Beijing and the power imbalance is deepening. The personal rapport between Xi and Putin, built up over the course of these many years, has facilitated the countries' ever-deepening relations. Since becoming China's president in 2013, Xi has visited Russia eight times and has met with Putin in-person 40 times, more than any other world leader. But more importantly, China views Russia as its only major ally that both shares its desire to erode the Western-led world order, and is willing to take significant diplomatic and economic risks in pursuit of that goal. Beijing also sees Russia as a critical source of cheap energy and natural resources that could help fuel China's economic advancement — and Moscow, likewise, sees China as a massive market for its economically crucial exports of raw materials. In addition, Russia similarly views China as a key strategic partner in its growing strategic competition with the West, as well as a lifeline for imports of crucial technology and goods. But Moscow's growing international isolation in the wake of the February 2022 Ukraine invasion and the West's subsequent sanctions campaign has started to skew the power balance in the relationship by increasing Russia's political and economic reliance on China. This was made evident during Xi's visit on March 21, when Putin floated the idea of using the Chinese yuan for ''payments between Russia and the countries of Asia, Africa, and Latin America,'' which contrasts with Putin's initial efforts following the invasion to promote his own country's currency — the now toxic ruble — for greater use abroad. Turning the yuan into a widely-used international currency is vital to China's push to replace the United States as the world's superpower and erode the U.S. dollar's dominance in global transactions. By proposing an initiative that would further that goal, the Kremlin is likely trying to signal its ardent support for Beijing and, in turn, solidify the case for more robust Chinese economic support and possibly military aid in Ukraine, based on the assumption that Xi would not want to see such a profusely pro-Beijing regime as Russia's destabilized by further setbacks on the battlefield. But Putin's proposal to use the yuan in Russia's transactions will nonetheless likely fuel growing claims that Moscow is increasingly assuming subordinate status in its relationship with China.

In his March 21 remarks summing up the visit, Xi noted that ''Chinese-Russian ties have gone beyond bilateral relations and are of vital importance for the modern world order and the fate of mankind.''

China has been Russia's largest trading partner for the past 13 years, but the two countries' trade ties have only grown since the Ukraine invasion. According to Chinese customs data, Russia-China mutual trade turnover rose by 30% in 2022 to $190.27 billion, with China accounting for 40% of Russia's imports and 30% of its exports last year.

In January, Russia for the first time became the top natural gas supplier to China in terms of total exports both by pipeline and in LNG form. Russia's LNG deliveries to China in 2022 rose by 43.9%. On March 21, Russia's state-owned gas giant Gazprom announced it had reached a record level of daily gas volume supplied to China through the Power of Siberia pipeline. Putin recently emphasized that negotiations on the Power of Siberia-2 project, which aims to connect the gas fields in western Siberia to China (fields that, prior to the Ukraine conflict, supplied gas to Europe), were in the final stages.

China used the meeting in Russia to promote its ''peace plan'' for Ukraine, an effort that is not necessarily meant to end the war but to position Beijing as a credible mediator and divide the West. During their recent meeting in Moscow, Xi and Putin also discussed China's 12-point proposal to end the war in Ukraine (which Beijing first unveiled on Feb. 24, the one-year anniversary of Russia's invasion).The disruptions caused by the ongoing war have rattled both China's economy and the global economy, with the world's grain and fuel supplies being hit particularly hard due to Ukraine and Russia's previous dominance over each market, respectively. To mitigate these economic shocks, China probably wants the war to end, and Beijing knows Moscow can cast its current territorial gains in Ukraine as a victory. Its so-called ''peace plan'' will also enable China to justify its continued deepening of relations with Russia, including potentially future Chinese weapons sales to Russia, as Beijing would argue any support for Moscow is insignificant given what the West is already supplying Ukraine. Ukraine, for its part, will probably say it isn't inherently opposed to China's proposal, at least in spirit, to avoid spoiling relations with a potential intermediary and the global superpower most capable of influencing Moscow. Beijing will then claim that, since Moscow and Kyiv support its ''peace plan'' in spirit, it is the United States that is serving as the major obstacle to peace in Ukraine —- an argument intended to turn Europe against Washington and fuel war fatigue in the West, as well as in developing countries around the world where China is seeking to expand its influence.

China believes it could be a credible mediator in the war, primarily because there aren't many alternative candidates for the role.
Turkey hosted earlier peace talks and helped broker the grain export deal between Moscow and Kyiv in July. But Turkey is also a NATO member, major arms supplier to Ukraine, and fully supports Ukraine's positions at international bodies such as the United Nations. Other potential candidates, such as the Persian Gulf states, either don't have a big enough stake in the Ukraine war to want to serve as a mediator, or lack the diplomatic heft to take on such a role. Beijing, by contrast, is a major investor and trading partner with both Ukraine and Russia, and has always framed its stance on the two countries' conflict as neutral, regardless of the veracity of this statement.

By taking a greater diplomatic role in the Russia-Ukraine war, China may also be trying to capitalize on its recent success in brokering the March 10 normalization deal between Saudi Arabia and Iran that ended the powerful Persian Gulf neighbors' seven-year rift. The historic pact, which Saudi and Iranian officials signed in Beijing, also further highlights China's growing ability to mediate global conflicts where the United States is either unwilling or unable to do so.
China's 12-Point 'Peace Plan' for Ukraine

The first point of China's plan reads that the ''sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all countries must be effectively upheld,'' in line with the ''purposes and principles of the United Nations Charter.'' This statement is primarily intended to be in line with Beijing's position on Taiwan, but Russia and Ukraine will interpret it in opposite ways. For Russia, this represents the recognition of the legality of its annexations in eastern Ukraine that took place in 2022. For Ukraine, this means the recognition of its internationally recognized borders prior to the Russian annexation of Crimea in 2014. The first point would be extremely contentious if China-mediated peace talks ever take place, and makes it highly unlikely that the 12-point plan would actually end the war. Points two, three and four (titled ''Abandoning the Cold War mentality,'' ''Ceasing hostilities'' and ''Resuming peace talks, respectively) aim to further the narratives justifying Russia's invasion, as well as enable the Russian military to regroup in Ukraine by solidifying its gains along current battle lines — goals shared by both Moscow and Beijing. Most of the later points, such as point eight on ''Reducing strategic risks'' and point nine on ''Facilitating grain exports,'' are largely geared toward furthering China's economic goals and giving voice to the concerns of states of the developing world.

The trip's timing raises questions regarding Beijing and Moscow's expectations for the coming months, most notably regarding Ukraine's likely spring offensive, additional Chinese military-technical support for Russia, and the West's efforts to counter Beijing and Moscow's partnership. Reports in February indicated Xi's visit was being planned for April or May, suggesting the summit may have been moved up to better promote Beijing's ''peace plan.'' This possibility is supported by other circumstantial evidence. For one, the exact timing of the visit was kept highly secret and did not become available until about a week before Xi's arrival. In another potential sign that the trip was initially scheduled for another date, Putin and other top Russian officials — including Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin and Foreign Sergei Lavrov — all had other significant engagements on the day that Xi arrived in Moscow that left them unable to greet the Chinese president on the tarmac on March 20 (Xi was instead greeted and sent off two days later by Dmitry Chernyshenko, Russia's deputy prime minister for tourism, sport and culture). Some of the potential reasons why Xi's trip may have been moved up include:

Recent leaks that China plans to send Russia weapons threw a wrench in Beijing's plan to cast itself as a ''peace broker'' in Ukraine. A potential explanation is that Beijing originally set out to pair its peace proposal for Ukraine with joint meetings with Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, but was then surprised by Western intelligence leaks in recent weeks that China was planning to sell drones to Russia as soon as April. If Beijing did have plans to start offering significant covert weapons assistance to Moscow, the accelerated timeline of Xi's visit could have been an adjustment in plans to enable Beijing to go through the motions of proposing a "peace plan" (and having the West summarily shoot it down) before committing to offering Russia weapons support. This way, Beijing could at least say it attempted peace prior to stepping up support for Moscow, and claim that the West's refusal to negotiate gave China no choice but to come to Moscow's aid and provide it with defense-technological support to sustain the war. Even if Beijing didn't plan to provide significant weapons aid to Russia, the intelligence leak of the potential Chinese drones sales could have threatened to let the narrative of China's potential role in a peace settlement for Ukraine run away from Beijing.

Russia is about to make a major move in Ukraine, and wanted to talk it over with China first. If Xi's trip to Moscow was, in fact, moved forward, it could indicate Russia is preparing to significantly escalate its war in Ukraine in the coming weeks and months (like mobilizing more troops in response to an expected Ukrainian attack), and that Putin wanted to personally discuss his strategy and receive assurances of China's continued support before making such a major move.

Russia and China wanted to start sowing divides in the West before a major U.S.-hosted international summit. On March 29-30, the United States will co-host the second Summit for Democracy, which Beijing and Moscow see as a potential architecture for an international coalition to oppose them on the world stage. Beijing's ''peace plan'' and Xi's promotion of the strategy during his trip to Moscow could help create division among summit participants regarding the West's stance on the Ukraine war.

ya

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1392 on: March 24, 2023, 06:36:37 PM »

ya

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1393 on: March 25, 2023, 06:13:33 AM »
China dumping US treasuries, we still have a way to go before they dump it all...i.e. Taiwan war is still far away.


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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1394 on: March 26, 2023, 06:58:07 PM »
Eyeballing that at a 30% decline from the peak , , ,

There is someone I would like to share that with.  May I ask for the URL?

ya

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1395 on: March 28, 2023, 04:31:28 AM »
Sorry, found it on my daily surfing...not sure where. Here's a different link, select the 10 y change.
https://www.ceicdata.com/en/china/holdings-of-us-treasury-securities/holdings-of-us-treasury-securities


Crafty_Dog

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Re: US Foreign Policy & Geopolitics
« Reply #1396 on: March 28, 2023, 08:47:23 AM »
Thank you.

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GPF: India's Emerging Foreign Policy
« Reply #1397 on: March 29, 2023, 07:05:26 AM »
March 29, 2023
View On Website
Open as PDF

    
India's Emerging Foreign Policy
The South Asian powerhouse will not content itself with being merely an ally of the West.
By: Kamran Bokhari

India’s economic rise has validated its historical efforts to maintain a diverse set of foreign relations. Russia’s war in Ukraine is both an opportunity and a challenge for New Delhi’s foreign policy approach. While managing pressures from Western governments to help isolate Moscow, the Indians have also been trying to assert themselves on the world stage. The South Asian powerhouse will not content itself with being merely an ally of the West and instead will maintain its policy independence, with implications for the U.S.-Chinese rivalry.

New Delhi’s G-20 summit negotiator, Amitabh Kant, said on March 15 that the Kremlin’s war in Ukraine has diverted the world from more pressing global issues. Speaking to reporters, Kant said: "Europe cannot bring growth, poverty, global debt, all developmental issues to a standstill across the world. Can that one war bring the entire world to a standstill?” The Indian official called on the global community to “move on” and for Europe to “find a solution to its challenges.” These unusually strong remarks come on the heels of similar comments from Indian Foreign Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, who said Europe needed to get out of the mindset that its problems are the world’s problems while the issues plaguing the international community are not of concern to the Europeans.

This is some extraordinarily tough language from India, particularly considering that it has avoided condemning the Russians for invading Ukraine. New Delhi has also sharply increased its oil imports from Moscow since the war began a little over a year ago. However, it is unclear why the world’s soon-to-be most populous nation chose to be so harshly critical of the Europeans.

Indian Imports of Russian Oil
(click to enlarge)

One explanation for this unusual behavior is that India is pushing back on the growing criticism over its reluctance to join Western-led international efforts to isolate Russia. But resisting such pressures does not require the Indians to go on the diplomatic offensive against the Europeans. After all, moderation and balance have historically been the defining tenets of New Delhi’s foreign policy doctrine. Even during the Cold War, India emphasized its nonaligned status even though it was an ally of the Soviet Union.

In the three decades since the Cold War, India has become closer to the West, particularly the United States. More recently, New Delhi has become a key U.S. ally and an important component of Washington’s efforts to counter China, as is evident from its membership in the Quad security alliance. Meanwhile, there is growing strategic collaboration between the United States and India, particularly on the economy, defense and technology. This would explain why the Indians avoided criticizing Washington and instead chose to focus on its European allies.

Nevertheless, the fact remains that Washington is the one spearheading the global efforts to support Ukraine against Russian aggression. The Europeans are secondary actors in what is a U.S. strategic imperative; not to mention that many within the continental bloc have been reluctant to confront Russia because of the economic cost. New Delhi is also well aware that if Moscow were to succeed in weakening Ukraine, that could render European security more vulnerable.

Therefore, it is clear that India was criticizing U.S. strategy, even if obliquely. And this is despite the fact that Washington has looked the other way while New Delhi has increased trade with Moscow and even though India’s business dealings with Russia are helping President Vladimir Putin bypass sanctions. Furthermore, the Biden White House, which one would expect to be more critical of India’s drift toward illiberal democracy under the Modi government, has been rather muted. Therefore, there isn’t much pressure on India that could explain New Delhi’s criticism of the Western focus on Ukraine.

India and Russia's Growing Trade Relationship
(click to enlarge)

India is clearly asserting itself on the world stage, and understandably so. Only six months ago, it replaced former colonial power the United Kingdom as the world’s fifth-largest economy. In mid-February, India’s largest airline, Air India, purchased almost 500 commercial jets at a price tag of $132 billion, the largest deal in aviation history. Then last week, Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida traveled to New Delhi, where he unveiled a new Indo-Pacific initiative aimed at countering China’s influence in the region.

New Delhi’s emergence as a global player comes at a time of great strategic churn. The conflict in Ukraine has accelerated the decline of Russian influence. China’s rise has reached an inflection point, though it will remain the principal competitor to the United States for the foreseeable future. The United States itself is facing major challenges, especially on the home front, which will consume the better part of the next decade.

The Indians will be navigating this highly fluid global environment as they continue to trek toward shaping global events. It would be a mistake for the United States to see India as an ally along the lines of Japan or Germany. India’s domestic political evolution, with the rise of right-wing Hindu nationalism, will complicate its relations with the United States and arrest New Delhi’s efforts to project international influence. More importantly, U.S. and Indian interests will not always align, as is evident from India's current dealings with Russia.

That said, as the international system evolves it will have a major effect on India’s foreign policy. Currently, New Delhi is heavily reliant on Moscow for its defense needs, but the war in Ukraine has disrupted that supply chain. Last week, the Indian Air Force said that Russia is unable to fulfill its commitment and that a “major delivery” that was expected this year would not be coming, forcing the air force to slash its modernization expenditure by a third compared with last year. Though in the short term it is difficult for India to diversify away from Russian military platforms, it is likely to gradually turn to the United States for its defense needs.

Similarly, China is a major point of U.S.-Indian convergence, even as India does not want to be a mere junior partner in U.S. efforts to counter China. But here again India faces constraints, especially those shaped by geography. The Indians are increasingly dealing with Chinese assertiveness on their shared Himalayan frontier. According to a March 21 U.S. News & World Report story, last December Washington provided real-time intelligence to the Indian military on Chinese positions and force strength ahead of a Chinese army incursion in India’s northeastern state of Arunachal Pradesh.

Ultimately, India will rely on the United States for its national security needs. The degree to which New Delhi will lean on Washington remains to be seen, especially as the Indian economy continues to grow. There is a reason that the two sides in late January launched the Initiative on Critical and Emerging Technologies, a collaboration involving the two governments, the private sector, research laboratories and academia intended to strengthen their partnership in quantum communications, semiconductor development, defense, commercial space and more. India’s relationship with the United States, and by extension the country’s role on the world stage, will be a unique one.


ccp

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not exactly clear how China "brokered " SA and Iran "deal"
« Reply #1399 on: April 02, 2023, 01:45:43 PM »
https://www.crisisgroup.org/middle-east-north-africa-saudi-arabia-iran-china/how-beijing-helped-riyadh-and-tehran-reach-detente

or exactly what China got out of it other
then more influence

SA and Iran were interested in negotiations for some time
and US could not be intermediately for reasons outlined.

I would hazard a wild guess China bought SA out with promises to buy (more?) oil
from them.