Author Topic: 2024  (Read 171495 times)

Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2024
« Reply #900 on: November 26, 2023, 09:41:19 AM »
"Someone(s) somewhere ( I read and listen to a good amount of political news) stated Biden will announce an alternative to himself during the convention and shake up the race."

A post here not too long ago discussed this.

Seems quite plausible to me.

Did I see that the DeSantis-Newsom debate on Hannity is this coming week?

Could be a real good chance for DeSantis to reframe things in a powerful way , , ,

ccp

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here is place time and channel for DeSantis Newsom
« Reply #901 on: November 26, 2023, 10:07:07 AM »
9 PM Hannity's slot for 90 minutes on Fox
Nov 30 - Thursday :

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4320985-desantis-newsom-debate-what-we-know-about-red-vs-blue-state-live-event/

I look forward to it and have my fingers crossed for Ron
though I am a bit nervous Newsom is slicker as well as a BS er

Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2024
« Reply #902 on: November 26, 2023, 02:03:23 PM »
FWIW IMHO this could very well turn into a histocally pivotal moment.

For example Newsom could close the deal with the Dem powers to have Magoo hand off his delegates to him in the run up to the Dem Convention or at the Conventions itself.

For DeSantis, this is make or break as to whether he hs the chops to be a winning nominee should Trump somehow not get the nomination (e.g. some legal trouble not yet calculated).   Also, can he put Newsom on his heels regarding China and by so doing blunt Haley's present momentum on geopolitics?

DougMacG

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2024, DeSantis v Newsom
« Reply #903 on: November 26, 2023, 08:23:07 PM »
Right, this could be career defining for both of them. I sort of predict and hope both present their side of it as well as is possible.  The facts favor DeSantis and the charisma and media backup go to Newsom.

DeSantis trails Trump by 50-60 points and Newsom isn't even running (yet), so in one sense this isn't even relevant.  But Trump is 77 and Biden 81 and both face what normal people would call insurmountable legal troubles.

Ironically, DeSantis needs Newsom to far outshine Biden.  He needs the dynamic in the race to change, and knocking out Biden is way easier than knocking out Trump.  (Only Trump can knock out Trump.)

I expect to see DeSantis ready for all the cheap shots and distortions Newsom will throw at him.  He needs to hit it out of the park.  He needs to win a few independents over to the conservative side and let conservatives know he is up to the job. And even that may not be enough.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2023, 05:07:40 AM by DougMacG »

ccp

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This sums it up for me and most of us
« Reply #904 on: November 27, 2023, 01:02:12 PM »
https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2023/11/27/the-guy-who-cant-win-v-the-guy-who-will-lose-n2631622

knock out the MAGA and Marxist nuts and we are left with the rest of the country who has no preferred candidate.


Crafty_Dog

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DougMacG

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Re: WT on Ramaswamy
« Reply #906 on: November 28, 2023, 05:49:17 AM »
https://washingtontimes-dc.newsmemory.com/?token=35e9f9270bb4ba4089253ab1f5a674bf_656600ff_6d25b5f&selDate=20231128

Even if his America First 2.0 messaging matched conservatism perfectly in the issue polls, is he the right guy with the right experience for the job?  (No)

Also he has been running to be the best conservative, not to win more people over to conservatism. In my view.

Trump jumped from private success to President, but that is the exception, not the path. Also he was well known nationally for decades, not new on the scene. And his main experience was show business, Apprentice, Celebrity Apprentice, where maybe none of us saw him but millions did, and he perfected his comfort speaking to the camera.

Running a government, perhaps the largest government in the world, is different than running your own solely owned business, no matter how big or how successful it is.

Being unwilling to take any of the steps in between is not a good sign.   In his 30s and worried about his sell by date.  You only get one chance at a first impression and then you are a perennial candidate. Harold Stassen was a young Governor sensation before he was a perennial has been.

Obama first ran for State Senator and US Senator first and was still new on the scene.  Hillary went up to NY and handed herself a Senate seat first, then lost. The so called "actor" President that no one took seriously at first served two terms as California Governor first.

Trump accomplished a lot, mostly undone since, but he also struggled with the process and lost reelection.

Vivek needs a save face exit from this race, soon, and needs to work on reaching more to the general electorate, not just 4% of the 40% (Republicans), then needs to hope Trump picks him for VP. 

But should Trump pick him?  Probably not.


« Last Edit: November 28, 2023, 05:55:33 AM by DougMacG »

ccp

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Re: 2024
« Reply #907 on: November 28, 2023, 08:59:47 AM »
" But should Trump pick him?  Probably not "

I rather feel sorry for whoever he does pick

Agree with what you stated.

Vivek might have political future in some other role but not as President or as VP at this time.
Trump would be wise not to pick him as VP.

I don't know who he should pick . I like Pompeo but being a VP to Trump would be a poor choice for Pompeo.

Same goes for anyone I can think of.

Kari Lake would fit Trump's bill maybe and would be a fine lacky for him, but not good for us......
I dunno.

Trump could do well with other syncaphants.  Mike Huckabee who I usually ignore, Dick Morris, Steve Bannon or some other total MAGA
none would bring in new voters to us.
I don't think anyone who would want to be his BP would bring in any new voters with him lead on the ticket.


Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2024
« Reply #908 on: November 28, 2023, 01:15:34 PM »
DeSantis would bring superior executive skills , , ,

ccp

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Re: 2024
« Reply #909 on: November 28, 2023, 02:43:57 PM »
I doubt Trump would pick him since he holds grudges
and I doubt Ron would accept

but of course I could be  wrong, and not rarely so.

for example after the 2022 election fiasco I thought Trump was surely done and Ron would take over.
we see how that turned out at least so far.

 :wink:
« Last Edit: November 28, 2023, 02:53:32 PM by ccp »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2024
« Reply #910 on: November 28, 2023, 03:59:34 PM »
I find myself similarly situated haha.

============

https://www.oann.com/newsroom/ex-blm-leader-endorses-trump/

DougMacG

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WSJ today DeSantis v Newsom scorecard
« Reply #911 on: November 29, 2023, 05:07:10 AM »
https://www.wsj.com/articles/gavin-newsom-ron-desantis-fox-news-debate-florida-california-239e637b

DeSantis vs. Newsom: a Scorecard
Here’s a cheat sheet to keep track of Thursday’s debate between the Florida and California governors.
By
The Editorial Board
Nov. 28, 2023 6:47 pm

Journal Editorial Report: Despite denials, the California governor is acting like a candidate.

Gavin Newsom and Ron DeSantis are set to square off Thursday evening in a Fox News debate, and it should be instructive. Besides offering voters a look of the alternatives to Joe Biden and Donald Trump, the showdown between the California and Florida governors could provide a revealing policy contrast.

Sacramento has rushed to the left in recent decades while Tallahassee has moved to the right. Since winning election in 2018, Messrs. Newsom and DeSantis have advanced sharply different policies on Covid lockdowns, taxes, school choice and climate regulation, among other things. In case you’ll be keeping track at home, here is a scorecard of policy results.

• Unemployment. Despite a shrinking labor force, California’s 4.8% jobless rate is the second highest in the country and nearly twice as high as Florida’s (2.8%). California has paid $48.7 billion in unemployment benefits since January 2019—nine times as much as Florida. One reason for the disparity: Fewer Californians are starting businesses.

• Business formation. Florida has received 2.7 million new business applications since January 2019—one for every eight residents—compared to 2.3 million for California, or about one for every 18 residents. Small businesses in California pay a top income-tax rate of 13.3% compared to zero in Florida, contributing to the Golden State’s more onerous business burden.

• Personal income. Business and worker earnings have increased by an annual compounded 7.7% (in current dollars) in Florida since the first quarter of 2019 compared to 5% in California. Had California’s earnings grown at the same rate as Florida’s, the Golden State would be about $255 billion richer and collect tens of billions of dollars in more tax revenue.

• Population migration. Between July 2019 and July 2022—the latest available Census Bureau data—1,044,494 Californians left for other states while 737,433 people on net moved to Florida. According to the latest IRS data, California lost $55.7 billion in adjusted gross income between 2019 and 2021 from population migration while Florida gained $80.6 billion.

• Energy prices. Electricity prices are twice as high in California as in Florida owing to green energy mandates. Californians also pay about $1.80 more per gallon for gasoline on average than Floridians because of higher taxes and climate regulation. Gas prices have increased about 70 cents more per gallon under Mr. Newsom than Mr. DeSantis.

• Taxes and spending. State and local taxes in California add up to $10,167 per capita versus $5,406 in Florida. Higher taxes drive more spending. California spent about $14,755 per capita (including federal dollars) in 2021 compared to $8,816 in Florida.

• Pensions. Public-worker pension payments were $51.2 billion in California last year versus $7.3 billion in Florida. To fund growing pension bills, Californians will have to pay even higher taxes. Each Californian is on the hook for about $18,500 in unfunded pension obligations compared to $5,200 for each Floridian.

• Medicaid. California spends $129.2 billion annually on Medicaid—more than four times as much as Florida ($39.7 billion). California has expanded Medicaid coverage to illegal immigrants under the ages of 26 and over 50. Next year all undocumented immigrants in California will be eligible for Medicaid.

• Homelessness. The federal government counted 171,521 homeless in California last year versus 25,959 in Florida. California’s Prop. 47—which was backed by Mr. Newsom—has effectively decriminalized drug use, making it harder to force addicts on the street into treatment.

• Deficit. Despite its higher taxes, California boasted a $31.5 billion budget shortfall in May while Florida ran a $17.7 billion surplus. Personal income tax collections in California for the current fiscal year that started in July are running about $20 billion below Sacramento’s projections, auguring another large deficit.

• Student learning. California spends about 45% more per pupil on K-12 education than Florida, but its student test scores are significantly lower, according to the National Assessment of Educational Progress. Only 30% of fourth-graders in California rated proficient in math last year compared to 41% in Florida. California’s prolonged pandemic school shutdowns magnified learning loss.

Our guess is that Mr. Newsom won’t want to talk about much of this and will instead spend most of his time flogging abortion and Donald Trump. But that will be revealing too.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2023, 05:15:32 AM by DougMacG »

ccp

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Re: 2024
« Reply #912 on: November 29, 2023, 05:51:46 AM »
good post

suggest you email that to Sean H. Hopefully he has seen it.

But Gavin has a way of either disputing the numbers by throwing more into the exchange
and deflecting or changing the subject as we saw in Sean's previous interviews.

Ron hopefully will not let him pull his BS lines or like you point out change the subject.

Agree Gavin's answers to every question will
be

Trump
abortion
Maga
threat to democracy
threat to rule of law
blah blah blah


DougMacG

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Florida v California Governor debate, charts
« Reply #913 on: November 29, 2023, 07:06:03 AM »
Homelessness:
https://www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2023/11/CA-vs-FL-homelessness-1.png

Gas prices:
https://www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2023/11/CA-v-FL-gasoline-prices.png

Mentioned previously, electric prices are double in California.

HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?

DougMacG

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2024, Debate Tonight
« Reply #914 on: November 30, 2023, 06:14:59 AM »
https://issuesinsights.com/2023/11/29/desantis-needs-to-win-the-newsom-debate-heres-how/

Sorry to overhype this, it's just that the future of the Republic and of western civilization as we knew it depends on it.

Since I don't get 'cable' I need to figure out where to watch it.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2024
« Reply #915 on: November 30, 2023, 07:02:05 AM »
I agree-- this is a big deal. 

If it fails to be a big deal, then that too is a big deal.

ccp

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Re: 2024
« Reply #916 on: November 30, 2023, 09:48:43 AM »


Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2024
« Reply #918 on: December 01, 2023, 04:52:09 AM »
REALLY wish Sean had kept a proper leash on Newsom and his interrupting and cross talk0 which forced DeSantis to respond in kind.  Too much of the night was the two of them talking at the same time.  Wish I had stuck around for the post debate fact check but I was already outta there by the time it had rolled around.

ccp

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Re: 2024
« Reply #919 on: December 01, 2023, 06:54:01 AM »
agreed

"I am not a hall monitor"

So Newsome could cut off Ron nearly every answer and make it about identity politics, distort the statistics,
and bring up abortion as much as he can.  Occasionally brings up Trump or Haley to use their criticisms against DeSantis.

And Newsome started would literally not shut up or answer the true statistics or the questions.

Ron did well.
I thought he could do even more about the immigration.
Like we don't need *immigration reform* (Dem code we need to raise legal immigration higher then 1,000,000 per yr then we will be happy to send a billion to pretend we are enforcing the border).
Simply enforce immigration law that exists!

I agree with post debate analysis that Ron was made it about different political approaches while the Gav made it all about identity politics the poor gays the rich vs poor etc.


DougMacG

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Re: 2024
« Reply #920 on: December 01, 2023, 07:16:27 AM »
Credit to Sean for getting Newsom on but he had no power or leverage to control him.

Haven't seen a fact check yet.

Strange media experience for me, all these public interest events on paid TV.  I could have signed up for Hulu for $80 plus (to see grown men talk over each other), then forget to cancel.  They wanted my email and birth date, besides credit card and address - to see a one time program.  And Hulu is Disney owned. No thank you.

Newsom won’t ever come back on and I've given Republicans enough, I shouldn't have to pay to see them debate.

Downloaded Fox radio app.  It was supposed to be on there.  They had a different show on.

View from the Left:
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/01/newsom-desantis-hannity-fox-debate-00129531

DougMacG

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Re: 2024
« Reply #921 on: December 01, 2023, 07:55:01 AM »
If the red state blue state debate had gone smoother, more Lincoln Douglas style, there could be a follow up with national issues and what policies and priorities should be.

DeSantis has been accused of being a book banner.  He addressed the issue directly, even brought one of the books. 

Newsom was confronted with the poop issue.  It most certainly happened under his watch.  What is his defense?

Regarding poop, imagine you are a middle-class homeowner in california (is there such a thing?), and your septic or sewer system starts leaking onto your own property.  Now imagine the zeal of the state and local regulators coming after you to fix it and clean up your mess.  My point being, unequal treatment under the law. It's not just the numbers of the homelessness, it's that they are considered by liberals to be subhuman and not accountable to the laws that govern the rest of us. 

What was the point on the Parkland shooting, 11 months before DeSantis took office?  Aren't shootings overall worse in Democrat jurisdictions, Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, Washington DC?

DougMacG

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ccp

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Re: 2024
« Reply #923 on: December 01, 2023, 08:48:42 AM »
Sorry you could no see debate . It was worth the watch.
Ron did well but Gavin displayed a leftist's penchant for not answering questions changing the topic or cherry picking one glib response and he certainly did interrupt Ron while he was speaking at nearly EVERY  answer talking over him.  I was hoping Sean would simply tell him to shut the F up so Ron could finish but he never did.  Gav was surely as rude as Trump was the first debate he had last time interrupting yelling at high volume and not letting Ron either get a word in edgewise or talking over him.

Politico of course is the one sided obnoxious leftist Democrat view:

It was Hannity and DeSantis v. Newsom in messy Fox debate
The Fox News host often grilled Newsom but couldn’t control the candidates.


ALPHARETTA, Ga. — The debate between Ron DeSantis and Gavin Newsom was a big mess. There was even some poop. Fox News moderator Sean Hannity didn’t help clean things up.

DeSantis, the Florida Republican and 2024 hopeful, was looking for a campaign spark heading into the fourth GOP primary debate on Wednesday in Alabama to reverse the downward direction of his presidential bid. The governor’s team savored the chance to have the night to themselves on primetime opposite a liberal Democrat from California.


Newsom’s aim wasn’t so much to present his vision for America — he’s not running for president — as to tag DeSantis as an uncaring bully who moved to weaken gun laws after a mass shooting. Newsom also said DeSantis had flip-flopped on key issues like immigration and China in an effort to explain why the Republican governor is trailing so far behind Donald Trump.

me: who does not think Gav is not running to be back up for Biden? raise your hands - no one raised hand.
He is running for '24 if needed, or '28 for sure.
His ex wife says he always wanted to be president
.


“He’s in a death spiral,” Newsom said.

The California governor pleased the White House with frequent defenses of President Joe Biden, “Bidenomics,” and by correcting DeSantis’ pronunciation of Kamala Harris.

Why did they agree to a Fox News-sponsored “debate” hosted by Hannity? Both participants are starved for national attention, and their respective suns have been blocked out by the aging leaders of their parties, 81-year-old Biden and Trump, 77. The extreme hunger for conflict from the next generation of politicians was on display Thursday night between DeSantis, 45, and Newsom, 56.

The 2024 Republican debates have been so devoid of spectacle, and, frankly, so lame, that the unlikely trio of DeSantis, Newsom and Hannity rushed to make their own entertainment. The 90-minute showdown, with the red state and blue state governors frequently talking over each other, included a surprise prop from DeSantis: a color-coded map of San Francisco covered in brown splotches representing human feces.

me :   without a doubt Gav talked OVER Ron nearly every time Ron answered a question.  He would interrupt shout over him , not let him finish speaking just like Trump did in first '20 debate.
I was begging Sean to jump in and tell him to SFU and let Ron finish but Sean just let him yell throughout.  Probably self serving to not annoy the GAv so he would agree to another debate with Sean in future I am guessing.


The Hannity Factor
Benefiting from the one-on-one square off, DeSantis got his shots in on Newsom — with Hannity’s help. The host took a layup from DeSantis to suggest that school districts in California were teaching students about how to masturbate. Hannity also teed up a question on education and LGBTQ+ rights under the banner of “parental rights.” He premised a question about Biden with his own opinion that the president is experiencing “cognitive decline.”

me: Hannity only jumped in around 2 x and only because Gavin would NOT answer the original question.

Hannity repeatedly pressed Newsom over whether he supported abortion at any point in a pregnancy but didn’t similarly lean on DeSantis about how his signing a six-week abortion ban into law in Florida was out of step with public opinion.

me:  I have to agree - IMHO 6 week ban is too short .   And true as Newsom pointed out many women will not even know they are pregnant or be able to get to doctor in time.
That said Gav WOULD NOT ANSWER either Ron or Sean if he would agree to abortion up to day of birth or not - GAv's response was only that is very rare and up to the patient and their doctor, BS


There was a clear incentive for Hannity himself to prove his relevance and staying power at Fox after the departure of ratings-king Tucker Carlson. Hannity’s ability to host two high profile governors — and convince Newsom to appear on Fox — was an undeniable win. Within the first two minutes of the broadcast, he mentioned being the longest tenured cable TV host.
stage
But Hannity struggled to corral the leading governors on the debate stage, repeatedly begging them not to make him a “hall monitor.” They mostly ignored his pleas as they interrupted each other and appeared to enjoy doing so.

me: True, but the vast majority of interruptions and the only prolonged ones were the Democrat on stage

The me: True, but the vast majority of interruptions and the only prolonged ones were the Democrat on stage probably undermined DeSantis’ overall case — giving viewers the sense that the Florida governor couldn’t fend for himself and needed an extra hand from the host. “Hannity basically tried to be a human life preserver for a drowning Ron DeSantis,” Newsom adviser Sean Clegg said of the host’s approach.

The obsequiousness probably undermined DeSantis’ overall case — giving viewers the sense that the Florida governor couldn’t fend for himself and needed an extra hand from the host. “Hannity basically tried to be a human life preserver for a drowning Ron DeSantis,” Newsom adviser Sean Clegg said of the host’s approach

me: what the hell does this word "obsequiousness" have to do  with anything . I had to look up the meaning and it does not fit here at all ! BS left winger tripe.  And no, Sean did not need to bail out Ron.
Two times, I think he jumped in to get Newsom to simply answer the question rather then attack Ron.


DeSantis in his comfort zone
The format with Newsom gave DeSantis an opening that he hasn’t had during the last three GOP presidential debates. At Thursday’s debate, DeSantis was able to mock his opponent without competing for attention from several rivals onstage.

He seemed to have more control over the conversation, elaborating about specific policies he backed as governor of Florida — which could help him attract the attention of big donors. He questioned Biden’s ability to run for a second term given his advanced age and theorized about why Newsom had asked for the exchange in the first place.

“Why won’t you just admit that you’re running?” DeSantis asked.

me: Gav kept denying he was running for something, and denied Biden is compromised; "I would pick a 100 yo Biden over you anytime or something like that he said among other lies that Biden and Harris are both strong.  Ron would say most Americans don't agree with you as they can see for themselves.  Politico skips over this obvious point of course.

DeSantis played the debate pretty straight. He repeated several times that Newsom was being “slick” and “slippery,” casually dismissed entire answers as lies and said Californians were leaving the state “in droves” — an effective attack particularly with the right. “He went on a binge of putting out a lot of left-wing platitudes,” DeSantis said of Newsom at one point.

me: well Gavin does remind me of Slick Willy, and he did put out the left wing platitudes on abortion, guns, tax the wealthy, gays, women etc.

Republican presidential candidate, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis participates in the first debate of the GOP primary season hosted by FOX News at the Fiserv Forum on Aug. 23, 2023 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
CALIFORNIA

Hannity wants a red vs. blue state debate. Newsom and DeSantis have other plans.

BY CHRISTOPHER CADELAGO | NOVEMBER 27, 2023 06:36 AM
DeSantis stumbled with more casual viewers as his answers veered into a digital-heavy direction, including dropping bombs on Newsom over his French Laundry dinner with no explanation and trying to tie him to the district attorney of Los Angeles, who is not a household name.

me: Ron showed charts and gave statistics from reliable sources on serious crime in Ca. vs Fl.
    nearly immediately Gav goes into murder is higher "per capita" in Fl than Ca. and of courses launches an assault on gun rights .  So Gav tries to deflect crime to all about guns. I thought Ron could have been a bit more effective here though he did point out that the gun laws in Ca are very strict compared to Fl and we have more mass shootings in Cl even despite this. But Gav would raise his voice talk over Ron or Sean and keep repeating murder and mass shootings are higher in Florida and of course make it all seem to be due to guns.


But if voters didn’t like DeSantis before the made-for-TV clash with Newsom, it’s hard to see how he changed any minds Thursday night.

Newsom fought on culture
Newsom was far more emotive than DeSantis when delivering certain responses, especially about the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas in Parkland, Fla., that claimed the lives of 17 people in 2018. He put DeSantis on the spot over loosening gun laws during his term, eliciting an odd response from the Florida governor who delved into a complaint about retail theft in California. It was the flip side of having the floor with only a Democrat — no Republican would have leveled similar charges in the GOP debates.

Newsom also expressed dismay about DeSantis’ policies regarding LGBTQ+ rights — one of his most effective exchanges of the night. It came after DeSantis held up a page from the book “Gender Queer” that depicted oral sex — a book Desantis claimed is in California public schools but has been removed from some Florida districts. In response, Newsom criticized Florida for removing books from school libraries that contain themes about gender identity and sexual orientation.

me: of course Gav keeps pointing yelling how Ron demeans and insults gays because he is keeping grooming out of schools ( YES GROOMING - what else is it?) He  kept repeating Ron banned 1,400 books in school libraries  as though Gays can't be gay marry and have kids and get tax benefits like everyone else in the US.

“I don’t like the way you demean the LGBTQ community,” Newsom said. “I don’t like how you humiliate people you disagree with. I find this primarily offensive.”

Hannity’s assistance for DeSantis impacted on Newsom but didn’t rattle him. He also accused DeSantis of pursuing culture-war fights because he was trying to compete with Trump to win the 2024 GOP nomination for president. He frequently drew attention to DeSantis’ failure to catch on in the race and asked him at one point when he was going to drop out to allow rival Republican Nikki Haley a chance to catch Trump. The exchanges helped Newsom bring the California versus Florida debate back to 2024 so he could undermine DeSantis’ electability argument.

“You are trolling folks and trying to play political games so you can out-Trump Trump,” Newsom said. “How is that going for you, Ron? You are down 41
points in your own home state.”

me: as for the poop in San Fran image it is notable it was from a reputable website as pointed out
 and it was an image of the feces found in SF by people who are tracking it and the entrire city showed feces.



Me: my bottom line is Newsom was typical lib - never admit to anything even when confronted with facts,
  lie, ignore stats that they don't like, talk and shout over their opponent, change the topic, turn to identity politics , to demeaning womens rights  and take one fact such as murders higher in Fl than Ca PER CAPITA ( I don't know if true ) and ignore all other serious crime rape aggravated assault robberies etc.  statistics and yell it back to the Conservative. 
BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS:  example  murder per capita is higher in Fl!
and then jump the guns are the problems for all crime.
And when confronted about gun laws in Ca are strict ignore THAT stat or incongruity .

Ron did well
but Gavin the lying very smug with that ubiquitous lib smirk ( I am smarter then thou, I am right you are wrong) the entire time will be loved by the LEFT.
every time he was confronted with facts he did not like the smirk comes on as though he is telegraphing the facts are untrue and false and he knows better - a pathological liar - who lies to you, knows they lie to you, and knows you know he/she is lying, and goes on lying to your face anyway.

« Last Edit: December 01, 2023, 09:48:48 AM by ccp »

ccp

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one last thought
« Reply #924 on: December 01, 2023, 08:58:59 AM »
except for not controlling Newsome's constant very irritating shouting and interruption that were relentless and without end . When the much fewer times Ron would fight back it was pretty much from what I recall only after Newsome would start it and not stop.

Sean had good questions
had the fact charts clear and ready

and did not interject except for 2 maybe 3 times.

and he did ask relevant questions.

We should learn the several talking points from Newsome

better answers for identity politics , switching and baiting from crime to guns

isn't anal intercourse still being done in Fl as well as Cal?
no limits there.

and Ron mentioned how Gavin is in bed with teachers unions and that is why he would not open up schools as fast as Ron did (august '20 I think)
so Gav points out he followed Fauci's advise ! ignoring that was only early in the epidemic.
one thing Ron did not do is state when exactly did Newsom open schools in Ca. He must not have know the date as he just said "much later" .

looks like it was April '21.
Gav of course denied this hurt children ed  :roll:






« Last Edit: December 01, 2023, 09:48:11 AM by ccp »

DougMacG

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Debate ended abruptly, Newsom's wife ended it
« Reply #925 on: December 01, 2023, 02:58:16 PM »
https://thelibertydaily.com/gruesome-newsoms-wife-reportedly-stepped-shut-down-his/

Both Politico and NBC News reported that they were planning to go over time and then never came back from the commercial break. Newsom's wife called it.

He wants the national attention. She could see it's going badly.  Just my take.

ccp

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Re: 2024
« Reply #926 on: December 01, 2023, 03:12:18 PM »
At the end of debate Sean asked if both wanted to go on longer and both agreed.
Commercial break.
Back and Sean announces by mutual agreement both had other engagements and agreed to continue.

No other reason given.
I never heard anything about Newsom's wife.
I don't know if she thought it going badly. When does a Dem ever admit to anything.


DougMacG

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DeSantis Newsom debate link
« Reply #928 on: December 01, 2023, 03:54:24 PM »
Finally an alleged link for the record :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyiFD_OsTPE

A day late.


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Sacramento Bee, Newsom destroyed DeSantis
« Reply #930 on: December 03, 2023, 08:47:51 AM »
If you agree with everything Newsom does and oppose everything DeSantis does, this is your view I guess.  But then what about homelessness, crime, gas prices, electricity prices, home prices, taxes, insurance costs, taxes, parental rights, businesses and people leaving, and human feces on public sidewalks? Who cares about those?

https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article282529493.html

Many elephants in the room they refuse to acknowledge, but talking points for Leftists are here.

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Re: 2024
« Reply #931 on: December 03, 2023, 09:07:58 AM »
With a couple of days for reflection on the debate, here are my takeaways:

a) Failure of Hannity to impose order made for a decidedly unpresidential experience for the viewer.  DeSantis "won" but did not show him as a future President.

b) DeSantis has just had another turnover at the top of his team.   Again, not looking presidential.

c) He has not cracked the code on how to go after Trump, and with Trump "beating" Biden in the polls, the heart of his sales pitch dissipates.

d) He would make/have made an ideal running mate for Trump, but Trump blew it.

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Re: 2024
« Reply #932 on: December 03, 2023, 09:22:11 AM »
CD

Agree with all of your conclusions ; spot on.

Barring Trump dies, it looks like him.

Even though he leads Biden by 2 to 4 points ~ in the general he still only captures around 45% of the population.
Kennedy takes some ~ 10% (?)and West ~ 2 %

I believe many will simply stay home.
We have to keep convincing the Independents Trump is the lesser of two evils and they need to vote.

As for Muslims who are swearing up and down they will not vote for Biden they sure as hell are not going to vote for Trump.

What a God awful situation for us.    :-o


Crafty_Dog

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WSJ: Iowa
« Reply #933 on: December 05, 2023, 04:06:51 AM »
DeSantis Predicts Iowa Win as Political Operation Backing Campaign Fractures
Florida governor and Nikki Haley are to face off in a debate on Wednesday, as they compete to be the GOP’s top Trump alternative
By
John McCormick, Alex Leary, and Kimberly S. Johnson
Dec. 3, 2023 12:57 pm ET

 Press” program. “It’s going to help propel us to the nomination. But I think we’ll have a lot of work that we’ll have to do beyond that. I don’t think you take anything for granted.”

DeSantis and Haley, a former South Carolina governor and United Nations ambassador, are set to appear in a debate in Alabama on Wednesday that might feature as few as three candidates. Trump, the former president and nomination front-runner, won’t participate and has skipped all three previous primary debates.

Former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie said Sunday on CBS’s “Face the Nation” that he was confident he would meet the Republican National Committee’s fundraising and polling requirements for debate participation. Entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy is expected to qualify.

DeSantis drew a burst of much-needed media attention last week for his feisty televised debate with California Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom.

Despite his upbeat projections, DeSantis faces increasing turbulence. Internal turmoil continues to plague Never Back Down, a super PAC supporting him that has played an outsize and nontraditional role by handling many of the tasks normally handled by a campaign.


GOP presidential candidate Ron DeSantis, in red tie, drew a surge in attention last week for his debate with California Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom. PHOTO: FOX NEWS CHANNEL/ZUMA PRESS
In recent days, top people working with the PAC have left, either by resignation or firing, adding to a portrait of disarray. Among those who quit are Chris Jankowski, who served as chief executive. His successor, Kristin Davison, was fired only days into the job.

On Saturday, DeSantis completed his tour of all 99 Iowa counties. He has heavily focused his campaign on the state that will start the nomination process and contends that emphasis and a well-funded ground organization will be rewarded with strong support there.

The Florida governor, however, has lost ground in Iowa since early this year. An Iowa Poll in late October showed DeSantis and Haley tied at 16%, with Trump at 43%. Other recent surveys have shown Trump with similarly wide leads.

In his “Meet the Press” appearance, DeSantis refused to say whether he would sign, as president, a six-week abortion ban similar to the one he signed in Florida, saying the question is moot because Congress lacks enough Republican votes to pass such legislation.

He also vowed to replace the Affordable Care Act, which has driven the nation’s healthcare uninsured rate lower and is increasingly popular in polling.

“We need to have a healthcare plan that works,” he said, without offering specifics. “Obamacare hasn’t worked. We are going to replace and supersede with a better plan.”

DeSantis also refused to condemn Trump’s recent use of “vermin” to describe political opponents, a word that for many invoked the rhetoric of Adolf Hitler. “I don’t use the term,” he said. “But what I don’t do is play the media’s game, where I’m asked to referee other people. He’s responsible for his words. He’s responsible for his conduct. I’m responsible for mine.”

The Florida governor predicted the race would continue to narrow and warned that if Trump is the GOP nominee the general election would be a referendum on the former president and “a lot of the issues that he’s dealing with” instead of a cleaner focus on President Biden.


Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has visited all 99 Iowa counties. PHOTO: LILY SMITH/THE DES MOINES REGISTER/ASSOCIATED PRESS
At an event in Newton marking the 99th county he has visited in Iowa, DeSantis appeared Saturday with Gov. Kim Reynolds and conservative Christian leader Bob Vander Plaats, two highly sought-after endorsers now campaigning on his behalf.

“In our country right now we need somebody to know that they fear God, they don’t believe they are God,” Vander Plaats said in an implied shot at Trump. “We need somebody of strong character.”

DeSantis touted his conservative record in Florida, including rejecting Covid restrictions. He said he would follow through with campaign promises, something he suggested Trump failed to do.

“We’ve got to have a president who can come in and not just be a caretaker for four years, but a change agent for eight,” he said, alluding to how Trump could only serve another four years if elected. DeSantis also suggested Trump has gotten into “needless food fights” and been a divisive force.

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Trump was also in Iowa on Saturday, making two stops designed to drive caucus turnout. He criticized DeSantis and Reynolds for opposing him and mocked his rival’s campaign struggles. “He seems to be dropping like a very, very sick bird into the ground,” he said in Ankeny.

Trump reminded the crowd of DeSantis’s congressional record, which included opposing corn-based ethanol mandates and support of nonbinding budget resolutions that would raise the retirement age for Social Security. DeSantis during the campaign has said he supports ethanol and has said any changes to entitlement programs should be targeted to younger people. Trump’s campaign also released a new television ad for Iowa featuring Reynolds’s past praise of him.

Julie Routh, an Iowan who attended the DeSantis rally, noted Trump’s age, legal troubles, rants and insults as reasons she switched her support to the Florida governor. “I want someone with good character,” she said.

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Paul Scott, an Iowan trying to decide between DeSantis, Trump and Ramaswamy, said the Florida governor moved up on his list after the weekend event. “Many of the things he’s done in Florida I support,” he said, pointing to how DeSantis kept schools and businesses open during the pandemic.

Richard Rogers, another rally attendee, expressed a distrust of polling and said he thinks DeSantis could triumph in the state next month. He said he was an early backer of DeSantis because the governor shares his “deep-seated” principles on a variety of issues and is a military veteran like he is.

Should Trump eventually be the Republican nominee, Rogers said it could depress turnout and hurt the GOP with down-ballot races. “Trump will hurt the party all the way to the bottom,” he said.

In Iowa and beyond, the DeSantis campaign has been heavily reliant on Never Back Down. The super PAC can’t legally coordinate with the campaign, but it has run the bulk of the governor’s advertising and ground operation. That has triggered communication issues and rising frustration from DeSantis and his closest advisers, people familiar with the situation say.

A new super PAC called Fight Right has been formed by DeSantis’ allies, underscoring a power struggle playing out during critical moments of the campaign.

“Iowa caucus winners have shown it takes a combination of hard work, air support and grassroots organizing to win,” said David Polyansky, a DeSantis deputy campaign manager. He praised Never Back Down’s ground effort and said it would contribute to success on Jan. 15.

Crafty_Dog

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WSJ: Trump's Second Term
« Reply #934 on: December 05, 2023, 04:13:47 AM »
Some real batshit mixed in here:

Trump’s Second-Term Plans: Anti-‘Woke’ University, ‘Freedom Cities’
Former president wants more active government, upending GOP orthodoxy

Donald Trump has outlined a governing platform that is barely recognizable to previous generations of Republican politicians. LINDSAY DEDARIO/REUTERS
By Andrew RestucciaFollow
 and Aaron ZitnerFollow
Updated Dec. 2, 2023 12:25 am ET


WASHINGTON—As he campaigns to retake the White House, Donald Trump has increasingly tossed aside the principles of limited government and local control that have defined the Republican Party for decades.

The former president is laying plans to wield his executive authority to influence school curricula, prevent doctors from providing medical interventions for young transgender people and pressure police departments to adopt more severe anticrime policies. All are areas where state or local officials have traditionally taken the lead.

He has said he would establish a government-backed anti-“woke” university, create a national credentialing body to certify teachers “who embrace patriotic values” and erect “freedom cities” on federal land. He has pledged to marshal the power of the government to investigate and punish his critics.

It is a governing platform barely recognizable to prior generations of Republican politicians, who campaigned against one-size-fits-all federal dictates and argued that state legislators, mayors and town halls were best positioned to oversee their communities. While many of his proposals would be difficult to achieve, the second-term agenda outlined by Trump could require waves of new federal intervention, even as he calls for firing government workers, neutering the “deep state” and cutting regulations.

“If Trump wins, the days of small government conservatism may be over,” said Lanhee Chen, a fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution who served as the policy director of Mitt Romney’s 2012 presidential campaign.


A transformed GOP Agenda

For Trump, a second presidential term would mark the culmination of a yearslong campaign to reshape the party in his image, moving away from the core ideals espoused for decades by Ronald Reagan, Barry Goldwater, William F. Buckley and other idols of the conservative movement. Instead, Trump has rallied his millions of supporters in part by tapping into the cultural and social grievances that animate the conservative base.


The rapid shift in the priorities of the party has led to something of an existential crisis for longtime Republican officials. They have privately said the GOP of today is unrecognizable from even a decade ago, when many Republicans were campaigning on leaner government, balanced budgets, entitlement reform and free trade.

As president, Trump presided over four straight years of rising annual deficits, signing bipartisan budget agreements that boosted federal spending. He launched a trade war with China. And earlier this year, he warned his party not to “cut a single penny from Medicare or Social Security.”

“What do we stand for as Republicans? The orthodoxy is a little bit upside down,” said Margaret Spellings, who led the Education Department and the Domestic Policy Council during the George W. Bush administration.


Fighting the culture wars

The former president’s allies contend that the party needed shaking up, and that Republicans were losing elections because they misjudged what American voters wanted. They contend that government intervention is a necessary corrective to what they view as overreach at the hands of liberals promoting their own ideas on diversity and education.

Brooke Rollins—a Trump White House official who now leads the America First Policy Institute, a think tank run by former Trump aides—argued that the majority of the public thinks that “the federal government [should] ensure that it is working on behalf of the people.”

“When local or state government drifts away from that, either unintentionally or intentionally, then I think that the vision is with an America First approach that the federal government will lean in and pull freedom back to where it should be,” Rollins said.

A Trump campaign spokesman didn’t respond to a request for comment.

Trump’s approach has won partial buy-in from powerful conservative groups. Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts said conservative policy has to “account for the reality of the damage that has been imposed by the culture war.”



Though Trump’s education policy proposals break with the longstanding conservative belief that schools should be controlled locally, Roberts argued that exceptions should be made to ban critical race theory from school curricula, for example, or to ensure that transgender athletes compete on teams only of the sex they were assigned at birth.

“For two generations, conservatives have said, ‘Let’s apply the principle of subsidiarity’ ”—the idea that decisions should be made at the most appropriate local level, Roberts said. “And what has happened is that federal money changed how those local entities, particularly local school boards, make decisions. It’s worse than that—it’s corrupted and diseased it. And so any conservative running for office would want to correct that.”


Judd Gregg of New Hampshire, a former Republican senator and governor, said Trump’s ideas were “antithetical to conservative thought and conservative history.” The federal government funds only a small portion of elementary and secondary education and yet Trump would use that money to “mandate 100% of the control.”

“That’s not conservative—but that’s the point: Trump is not a conservative,” said Gregg, who has endorsed former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley’s presidential bid. “He’s an iconoclastic populist, and his views have no relation to any philosophical views. They’re all related to his personal views, which are built on all sorts of different platforms depending on what he sees in the mirror in the morning.”

Gregg said he found it ironic that Trump was proposing a muscular use of federal authority over schools, given that conservatives had once attacked Gregg for overreaching with a landmark, bipartisan bill he co-authored, known as No Child Left Behind. That bill, signed by then-President George W. Bush in 2002, required reading and math assessment tests for students in certain grades. Schools faced sanctions for failing to move more students toward proficiency, but the states, and not the federal government, set the standards.

Even some of Trump’s allies have privately expressed doubts about several of his proposals. Several former Trump administration officials said they were skeptical of the feasibility of the former president’s plan, announced in a video message on his social-media platform last month, to establish an “American Academy” funded by “taxing, fining and suing” what he calls “excessively large” private university endowments. Trump pitched the government-backed free online school as an alternative to the current higher education system. “There will be no wokeness or jihadism allowed,” Trump said.


Roberts, Heritage’s president, said he “loves” the university plan but opposes Trump’s proposal for federal certification of teachers. “I hate it. It’s a terrible idea,” he said. Heritage wants to end teacher certification altogether. As with many of his second-term proposals, Trump has offered little detail about the plan other than to say he would create a “credentialing body to certify teachers who embrace patriotic values and support the American Way of Life.”

Using government to counter liberalism
Trump’s platform is an expansive example of the reorientation among some within the GOP more broadly in favor of a more active federal government. In Congress, some Republicans have pushed for such federal measures as caps on credit-card interest rates, social-media regulations and worker protections in contracts that fit awkwardly with the party’s business-oriented impulses.


Like Trump, several other GOP presidential candidates say that an aggressive use of federal authority is needed to push back against a liberal social agenda that they say has taken hold in schools, academia, the media and corporate boardrooms. Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has argued that “old-guard corporate Republicanism isn’t up to the task.”

The idea is an extension of one advanced in an influential 2016 essay, “The Flight 93 Election,” by Michael Anton, who went on to be a Trump national security aide. He said that the U.S. was “headed off a cliff” because of liberal dominance of institutions, and traditional conservatives weren’t prepared for the seriousness of the fight.

Trump’s governing philosophy is at times difficult to decipher. Unlike with past presidents, his résumé doesn’t include years of government service during which he staked out consistent positions on issues of the day. People who have worked for him said he is unconcerned with hewing to timeworn party rules, and the former president has privately and publicly expressed disdain for Republican standard-bearers such as Bush.

“Certain things hit him viscerally, and he wants to fix them personally. He thinks Republicans have been too passive in the face of a lot of these issues,” said Joe Grogan, Trump’s former Domestic Policy Council director. “He’s totally nondoctrinaire. He’s definitely willing to throw the old rules away.”

Trump’s unorthodox and unpredictable approach to governing continued throughout his White House tenure, and a second term would push that approach further.

In dozens of policy proposals outlined in speeches and on his campaign website, Trump has called for vastly expanding the power of the presidency, shifting authority away from federal agencies and to himself. He has said he would slash major federal programs and revive a mandate from his first term to eliminate two regulations for every new one that is put in place.

“For anyone to say he loves big government—that’s just wrong,” Rollins said.

More government means more bureaucracy

Implementing many of his other proposals could require building additional layers of government bureaucracy, some of which could overrule or duplicate existing state and local efforts. Credentialing teachers on the federal level could mean creating a new government body that would complicate existing state certification efforts.

Setting up a new government-backed university could require a labyrinthine system of government contracts to hire instructors and staff. Trump’s proposals to direct the government to investigate everything from MSNBC to hospitals could require hiring additional lawyers and other employees to carry out the probes.


Donald Trump has made many proposals that call for expanding presidential power if he recaptures the White House. PHOTO: ALON SKUY/GETTY IMAGES

Other vaguely defined ideas—like Trump’s proposals to establish a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to declassify and publish documents on “Deep State spying” and an independent auditing system to monitor U.S. intelligence agencies—would also likely require new government programs.

Washington policy-making veterans said many of Trump’s plans are unlikely to come to fruition even if he wins a second term, citing logistical and financial hurdles, potential opposition from Congress and likely court challenges.

The former president’s proposals “might make for good stump speech fodder (at least for his MAGA base), but are miles from the real world of programs and policies,” Michael Petrilli, an education policy analyst and the president of the Thomas B. Fordham Institute, said in an email. “The point of these proposals is to take sides in the culture war, not to present a governing agenda.”

DougMacG

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2024, next debate, down to 4 (plus Trump sitting out) )
« Reply #935 on: December 05, 2023, 07:42:44 AM »
https://apnews.com/article/fourth-republican-presidential-debate-candidates-11038f48f805d5e6b881e3547fe807d8

Tomorrow?

I wish Vivek and Christie would go away.  Trump should jump in but he won't.  He's following the Biden in the basement routine that worked so well.

Important point that also won't be followed:

This should be a contest of who can beat up on Biden and Dem policies the best, not beat up on each other.

If they did that, they wouldn't need to interrupt and talk over each other, the program would be watchable for independents and persuadables, and it would help them in the general election.  But no, they each want the nomination more than they want to save the country, and so none of these four at this point have a chance to do any of it, while the poorest debater of them all sits out.

Frustrating for those of us in the armchair.  We wait for the next election to throw the bums out and then watch our own side self-destruct almost every four years.
-----------

Regarding DeSantis campaign turmoil, it's a symptom and a distraction. The problem isn't money, it's that not enough agree he should be the new leader. 

At this point he needs incremental improvement.  He needs (1) a slight bump from his Newsom debate.  He needs (2) to beat the polls in Iowa, finish a strong second.  (I don't see how he beats Trump).  He needs (3) the Vivek and Christie shows to end (also not happening).  To truly take on Trump he needs (4) Haley out, that isn't going to happen.  And he needs (5) Trump to step in it or suffer some real setback that right now isn't in the cards.  So he needs to pretend the race for second matters right up until the end - in case a door opens.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2023, 08:05:32 AM by DougMacG »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2024
« Reply #936 on: December 05, 2023, 10:21:50 AM »
"I wish Vivek and Christie would go away."

The VR vote will go to Trump, and the Christie vote, and anti-Trump vote, will go to Haley.

"Trump should jump in but he won't.  He's following the Biden in the basement routine that worked so well."

a)  It DID work;

b) He is rather busy facing some 140 years in prison and/or the destruction of his business empire.

"This should be a contest of who can beat up on Biden and Dem policies the best, not beat up on each other."

Worth noting that at the moment this favors Haley-- but I would offer that this formulation leaves the great divide in the Rep Party in place.

"If they did that, they wouldn't need to interrupt and talk over each other, the program would be watchable for independents and persuadables, and it would help them in the general election.  But no, they each want the nomination more than they want to save the country, and so none of these four at this point have a chance to do any of it"

I would come at this from a different direction-- the moderators (are you reading the forum here Sean?) need to put a muzzle on this and insist on regular order.

"while the poorest debater of them all sits out."

Ummm , , , Trump raped Megyn Kelly, Jeb Bush, Rand Paul, etc etc

"Frustrating for those of us in the armchair.  We wait for the next election to throw the bums out and then watch our own side self-destruct almost every four years."

Agree.
-----------

"Regarding DeSantis campaign turmoil, it's a symptom and a distraction."

For the record, if I have it right, the turmoil is in a PAC which technically is not subject to his control.

"The problem isn't money, it's that not enough agree he should be the new leader."

a) His six week abortion signature and poor follow up explanations lead many to ignore him from the get go.  Note that Trump has taken a very different tack.
b) He has yet to crack the code on how to go after Trump-- my post today of the article about his second term positions offers fertile material here-- but I suspect RD will not seize the opportunity.
c) He should be comparing his polling numbers against Biden with Trump's.  Haley should do this too.
d) Though on the whole I think he has geopolitics right, he has not cracked the code on how to communicate it-- contrast Haley, who agree or disagree, has. 


"To truly take on Trump he needs (4) Haley out, that isn't going to happen." 

Were she to be hit by lightning tomorrow (NOT wishing for this!  Just setting up hypothetical!) where would her vote go?  Not clear to me.

"And he needs (5) Trump to step in it or suffer some real setback that right now isn't in the cards.  So he needs to pretend the race for second matters right up until the end - in case a door opens."


EXACTLY.   To this end, debate food fights do not really serve him, even if/when he "wins".  He needs to inspire- to show he can LEAD the country.  He CAN do this.  I posted here either before or soon after he announced about a really good speech he gave giving voice to our American Creed.  With Trump an unguided missile in this regard, IMHO this is where he has his best chance of pulling an inside straight.

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my 2 cents on the debate
« Reply #937 on: December 05, 2023, 12:55:17 PM »
Doug and CD both make excellent points. 

I agree about Vivek.

I was totally dismayed and indeed, even shocked when I saw he and CC are in this debate.  Why is Rhonda Mcdaniel so foggy minded.

What a waste of time and of course Vivek will (despite some good ideas) use his big mouth to bash (like Dana Bash) fellow R's which is NOT what we need now.

Christie seems to not realize his bashing Trump is a waste of time and not needed from his standpoint since we hear 24/7 why Trump will ruin the nation, democracy, our Republic, Nazi, autocrat, dictator, Putin lover
on every single media outlet except for the few conservative sites and radio we do have on our side.

We all notice how the frenzied screams yells yelps calls and proclamations of how he is the worst danger to world has stepped up just in the past week.

I think Liz Cheney will run as independent.  I read today the Dems worry if she does that she would siphon votes from Biden. This is clearly a lie. Clear if she were to run she would get zero votes from Dems and a small fraction from Trump.

If Haley dropped out the never Trumps would have her to vote for.


Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2024
« Reply #938 on: December 05, 2023, 03:08:31 PM »
"Why is Rhonda Mcdaniel so foggy minded"?

It's the Romney genetics.

VR is glib, arrogant, and lacking in self-awareness.  He also says some really intelligent things (some with win-win paradigm shift potential)- things that I would like to hear from the other candidates-- Trump in particular would benefit.   

Cheney is delusional-- and irrelevant except as Pravda click bait.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2023, 03:10:13 PM by Crafty_Dog »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2024
« Reply #939 on: December 06, 2023, 03:10:20 AM »
With the exception of the incredibly unnecessary and stupid comment about "dictator", Trump was in oustanding form for one hour with Sean in front of a live audience in Iowa.  Excellent ability to flow between and integrate different subjects, deflate concerns, present a vision for a way up from the hole in which we find ourselves.   


On the subject of deficits/spending/SS and Medicare/payments on the national debt Trump's answer was drill baby drill.  Glib wishful thinking or crafty win-win mind?   In the fullness of time, perhaps all will be revealed.  Regardless, politically it struck me as astute.

Hannity did not bring up Trump's actions and inactions during the Chinese Cooties.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 07:42:11 AM by Crafty_Dog »

ccp

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Hannity with Trump 12/5/23
« Reply #940 on: December 06, 2023, 06:50:03 AM »
Agreed CD

I turned it on sometime into the meeting
and I heard Trump going off about Afghansitan  etc which we have all heard a thousand times before and I had to switch stations for a bit because I can't take any more of past topics.

But then after next commercial and I turned it back on and was truly very impressed overall.

Mostly forward thinking (agree making us exploit the oil we have I find hard to believe will due much if anything about debt and social security medicare and the rest ) and with more *specifics*.
Not just he will solve all the US problems etc. Less simply beating his chest. Less looking backward

 

The "dictator thing Trump was joking when he said yes but then clearly pointed out he meant only the "first day" with regards to securing the border (good) and re booting fracking and Anwar (good)

Perhaps he should have simply said NO.

After the interview Abby Philips on CNN

purposely took this out of context to say Trump said he would be dictator the first day and sickeningly CNN left wing drive by style did not point out it was only about energy and illegal immigration

and thus concluded with her lacky staged guest he ADMITS TO PLANNING ON BEING A DICTATOR !!!!!

God awful how I hate the left wing media.

Every time I channel surf and run by MsLSD OR CnN
it is all about the dangers of trump

the polls have them going even more bananas,
they cannot sleep they cannot think straight they have totally tunnel vision and thoughts 24/7 about the dangers of Trump.

ccp

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is GOP doing any real outreach to American Blacks?
« Reply #941 on: December 06, 2023, 09:20:44 AM »
https://spectator.org/gop-game-changer-winning-over-black-voters-republicans/

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/10/07/how_can_the_republican_party_reach_black_voters_146525.html

I don't know why the GOP can't work harder to fight the LEFT propaganda on this:

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/timing-gops-outreach-black-voters-better-rcna24040

Rhonda McDaniel in 2020 on Black outreach:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ronna-mcdaniel-trumps-accomplishments-in-black-communities-boosting-votes

Black women certainly not impressed. 98% voted Dem!  God awful .
70% mothers without being married
How can we reach them?

capitalism is not enough in my view
how about we come with better health care support (I admit do not know how to do this)
real economic zones in Black areas
agree with education support
make it VERY CLEAR that GOP does NOT support racism in any form
not just say well some are good people !

Rhonda seems like mostly her answer then was simply "trump" went to Detroit etc once as significant.
That is dismally weak outreach
Opening an GOP office and an urban setting alone is not enough.

I am not sure what else they are doing.
Can't find much

DougMacG

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Re: is GOP doing any real outreach to American Blacks?
« Reply #942 on: December 06, 2023, 12:26:24 PM »
ccp, great questions and comments. Some random responses.
We preach to the choir.  We don't really know how to reach anyone else.  We don't try.  We get blocked, and they don't let us reach them. Every long while they get the message anyway.

Capitalism the word is evil because that's what they learned, they were never taught the good parts or why every other system is worse, and generally nothing can change their mind since it's never really tried.  I would call it economic freedom, not capitalism. Example that explains capitalism, a shovel might cost $20 at Home Depot.  A trencher may cost $50,000 at a machinery store.  A hut could be built without power tools with one person. A tall building requires cranes and so on. Without some of these advances, we are worse off.  The productivity gains were needed to escape poverty and pursue higher interests, but look around. Only people who already knew this are reading it.

Another point is the welfare state helped some but mostly worked to destroy families, culture and neighborhoods.

"make it VERY CLEAR that GOP does NOT support racism in any form
not just say well some are good people !"


  - Further to that is the racism of low expectations. "Voter ID is racist" is insulting to many or most they refer to. Downgrading school expectations, same thing.

Trump alone has had some ability to reach minorities, as counterintuitive as that seems. Through his celebrity and his boldness, I guess.

Last point for the moment mentioned many times previously, a 1% or 2% movement in politics is gargantuan, and we are potentially getting more than that. Look at the margins in the key states.

We have to keep trying.  Better messaging, reach out wider, reach out differently, but mainly the way we teach them our way is better happens when they see the other side govern.

In my inner city work I saw the excitement in 2008 of having a first 'black' President. Over the 8 years they noticed nothing got better for them, plus they saw no one discriminated against him, just the opposite. Then Biden was the self appointed hero of blacks and same thing.  Strangely, they made better gains under Trump.

Some economic (and other) lessons today are hopefully self explanatory. Men in women's sports destroys women's sports. Defund the police and let the perps go leads to more crime, worse crimes and more victims. Open border floods the country with new people, and competes for your Healthcare and your welfare, not just your jobs and homes.  Cutting off energy supplies drives up the cost. Excessive spending drives up the costs.  Everything they do drives up the costs.  Hard to not notice. And a late term fetus is a human. Though shalt not... what?

Now back to debate 4 on networks no one can find and no persuadables will watch, and soliciting those who already gave for more money to reach all the same people, targeted caucus goers in Iowa for example.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 01:00:37 PM by DougMacG »


Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2024
« Reply #944 on: December 07, 2023, 01:50:28 AM »
I thought the debate last night actually was quite good.

Some snap impressions:

*Perhaps I am biased but overall I would score DeSantis as the "winner".  His best performance so far.  He may even be a reader of this forum-- he followed my advice to articulate American Creed and by so doing be more inspirational.

*Haley took some heavy hits I thought around some of her new wealthy backers.

*Christie stayed the course unapologeticly and did so rather well.

*Vivek continued his weird mix of some really intelligent things and childish insults.

*Overall I suspect the ratings were low, and few minds were changed.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2023, 08:56:57 AM by Crafty_Dog »

ccp

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Re: 2024
« Reply #945 on: December 07, 2023, 07:29:49 AM »
Agree

Best debate though Megyn would immediately put each candidate on their heels with questions

like you are so freakin' much behind why are you bothering.

I thought Ron was really good and post debate Newsnation analysis liked how he handled education
speaking of trade schools.

Nikki was very good.
I don't know why making 8 million is such a crime.  Why shouldn't she.  Vivek keeps making corporate donations a crime .  Easy for him to say when he is worth near a billion.

Who does not take donations when they are offered ?
Does not mean they are beholden to the donors.  Her answer is the donors come to her after they hear her policies not the other way around.

Did not change my choices:

#1 - Ron
#2 - Nikki
#3 - DJT




DougMacG

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Re: 2024
« Reply #946 on: December 07, 2023, 07:54:59 AM »
Again I didn't see it.  The highlights are all of the infighting. Too bad they don't eliminate more candidates this close to the voting. Too bad the voting for the primaries is so far ahead of the general election. Since Trump won't debate, too bad DeSantis and Haley can't. I understand there are party rules against unsanctioned debates. Just profanity for what I think about that. The party has been a complete hindrance. But any talk of uni party distracts from the choices. There is nothing to the left of Republicans that will save this country.

I agree with the ccp ranking.

Regarding Vivek and Christie, they should at least have to show upward momentum in order to be on the main stage with 2.5% of 40% (Republican Party) support at this late date.

What I mostly see are talking points that will later be used in the general election against whoever is the nominee.

ccp

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Re: 2024
« Reply #947 on: December 07, 2023, 08:13:00 AM »
Nikki even came down the stronger for immigration.

She would deport every illegal who came to US since Biden was President.

She was a bit more muddy about those who were here prior.

She pointed out her parents went through the legal process and are too, annoyed, angry at those who simply see fit to overstay visas, walk in etc.

I agree Doug.  Only controversy shows up in the media not ideas or policies.

Christie did not hurt the debate , goes after Trump pointed out when candidates were asked do they think that Trump is unfit for office they all refused to say calling them cowards etc.
They had too little to say why they are better for office except age
though Nikki did say we don't need the drama.

Vivek like CD said has some good ideas but then just like Trump , throws a monkey wrench into his gears and starts to be his tempered self criticizing the others for bogus stuff that just becomes fodderrish talking points for the LEFT .

He is brilliant in a theoretical way but dumb in strategic presentation in my view.
He claims his employees "loved" him.  I wonder .......?

ccp

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the debate via Fox recording
« Reply #948 on: December 07, 2023, 08:17:32 AM »
https://fox2now.com/video/watch-the-full-newsnation-gop-debate/9232911/

Here you go, Doug.
I thought it very worth the watch.
It was close to 90 minutes, I think.

ccp

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Tik Tok during debates
« Reply #949 on: December 07, 2023, 10:21:47 AM »
Forgot to mention

I am furious that Tik Tok aired multiple commercials during the debate.
Smart ass CCP  :x