Author Topic: We the Well-armed People (gun and knife rights stuff ) Second Amendment  (Read 986230 times)

DougMacG

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Re: We the Well-armed People (gun and knife rights stuff ) JFK
« Reply #1850 on: April 07, 2018, 11:53:13 AM »

Cruces

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US district court upholds MA assault weapons ban
« Reply #1851 on: April 07, 2018, 08:43:06 PM »
http://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/381957-federal-judge-upholds-massachusetts-assault-weapons-ban?amp

Quote
U.S. District Judge William Young said in his ruling that the firearms and large magazines banned by the state in 1998 are “not within the scope of the personal right to ‘bear Arms’ under the Second Amendment.”
The features of a military-style rifle are "designed and intended to be particularly suitable for combat rather than sporting applications," Young wrote.

 I'm sure most of you are well aware that the ratifiers of 2nd amendment were not preoccupied with preventing the new federal government from infringing on a right to keep and bear arms related to "sporting applications".   Despite the well documented history of the 2nd amendment pertaining to protecting the preexisting rights to arms relevant to defense against invasion, usurpation, or insurrection, this "sporting purpose" clause has been used as a convenient cover for broadly ignoring and and circumventing the protections intended by the 2nd amendment.   Not only does this innovation violate the original intent and history behind the 2nd amendment, but it also ignores established precedent regarding arms of military character.  In 1939, in US vs. Miller the SCOTUS indicated that protected weapons were of "relation to the militia" and "part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense".  Taken together these are akin to saying "you may carry a firearm so long as it is not concealed, or displayed openly" in that it creates a nullity where the right ceases to exist (for a time, Alabama firearms law left people in just this state).

While probably a majority of Democrats, Republicans, Judges, Business Leaders, and even regular folks would really like this "sporting purposes" to honestly be the intent of the 2nd amendment, to the extent they will carry on as if they myth were true, there is a serious risk in entertaining the delusion.  As we read in the federalist papers, the purpose of the 2nd amendment is to primarily serve as a check on usurpation at the federal level, but also to ensure the people can defend against invasion and insurrection.  To the extent that upholding this intent of the 2nd amendment is prevented, the people become increasingly vulnerable to these scourges (as we see in the gun free zones where mass shootings occur and people are unable to provide the defense they are responsible for).  Worse, a goodly portion of the population (though decreasing under the steady pressure of generations of culture war in media, schools, etc.) still recognizes the original intent, and is not inclined to join in this delusion.  And there in lays the greatest danger, because it puts us in an unfortunate condition well stated by Frederic Bastiat in "The Law":
Quote
No society can exist unless the laws are respected to a certain degree. The safest way to make laws respected is to make them respectable. When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law. These two evils are of equal consequence, and it would be difficult for a person to choose between them.
To the extent that rule of law is abandoned, the compliance of the populace with law declines, and such a state can only progress so far before the resulting increasingly destructive corruption of the society is irreversible.  We are in effect in a race between wiping out history and understanding of liberty in the minds of each generation so that they do not know or mind whatever chains and concealed hazards are laid upon them (witness the cries of the Parkland media elect for increased subjugation), versus the increasing discontent, non-compliance, and eventual confrontation that occurs when laws are no longer in accord with justice and rights.  Would a magic wand could be waived to reverse this condition instantly and remove the danger by restoring a culture of reasonableness and rule of law.   

I'll admit this is why my wife raises an eye brow at me and says "Who are you arguing on the internet with now" all too often.  It is because failure to to trying to encourage as many people as possible to see and follow the path of reasonableness and rule of law would be an admission that the cause of liberty is lost, and a surrender to a society of increasing chaos and destructiveness.  Whittaker Chambers, when he defected from the US communist apparatus and worked for the FBI said he was probably joining "the losing side of history", but nevertheless did what he thought was right, and did not give up while had any strength to support what was right.  And therein lays the animation of anyone who also fritters away hours trying to turn the Titanic of society by its bow in discussion and debate.  The unwillingness to give up so long as there is any spark yet, and who can say that seeds planted today will not bear fruit at a point in the future, especially compared to an alternative where no seed is sown out of despair.  Never let go of that spark, fan it with all your strength.


Crafty_Dog

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G M

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Re: Darwin thins the herd a bit , , ,
« Reply #1853 on: April 08, 2018, 08:19:02 AM »
https://www.funker530.com/graphic-machine-gun-crowd/

What a wonderful people! They should definitely have their own country.

ccp

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Re: We the Well-armed People (gun and knife rights stuff )
« Reply #1854 on: April 08, 2018, 06:35:24 PM »
Looney London mayor
now confiscating knives !

 :-P

what an ass:

well London you got what you voted for . Happy now?  Hammers and screwdrivers are next:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/29179/londons-mayor-declares-intense-new-knife-control-emily-zanotti

Crafty_Dog

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Madison 1788
« Reply #1855 on: April 09, 2018, 10:06:14 AM »
"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of." —James Madison (1788)

ccp

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book deal for Hogg
« Reply #1856 on: April 19, 2018, 05:48:57 AM »
http://ew.com/books/2018/04/18/hogg-family-parkland-book/

I heard 100,000 copies advance orders:

4999 to Soros
4999 to Steyer
1 lawrence Odonell
1 Madcow

DougMacG

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Re: book deal for Hogg, Never again?
« Reply #1857 on: April 19, 2018, 07:01:04 AM »
I wonder if his 14 year old co-author knows that the title comes from the Holocaust aftermath where the government banned guns and then exterminated millions who could no longer fight back.

A more logical and empirical approach would be to ban gun-free zones.

ccp

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Re: We the Well-armed People (gun and knife rights stuff )
« Reply #1858 on: April 19, 2018, 07:15:44 AM »
"I wonder if his 14 year old co-author knows that the title comes from the Holocaust aftermath where the government banned guns and then exterminated millions who could no longer fight back."

Good point. The title is obviously reminiscent of the Holocaust cry .   

And yes the many who were carted off to camps Jews and non Jews could not really fight back except in limited cases like temporarily in the Warsaw ghetto
I like you response Doug.

Hogg is NO Elie Wiesel .  :roll:

Nor is he courageous

narcissistic yes


Crafty_Dog

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Re: We the Well-armed People (gun and knife rights stuff )
« Reply #1859 on: April 20, 2018, 09:22:28 AM »
He is a teenager.

I am reminded of the riff I annoy my son with from time to time:

"Go out and make your fortune while you still know it all.."



G M

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Crafty_Dog

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NRA files against CA ammo restrictions
« Reply #1862 on: April 26, 2018, 08:29:39 PM »
michellawyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Complaint.pdf

=============================

NRA and CRPA Attorneys File Federal Lawsuit Challenging California’s Ammunition Sale Restrictions
 
Today, April 26, NRA and CRPA attorneys filed an important lawsuit challenging California’s restrictions regarding the sale or transfer of ammunition. These restrictions, enacted in 2016 as part of the “Gunmageddon” bills and Proposition 63, require all ammunition sales and transfers to be conducted via face-to-face transactions at California licensed firearm dealers or licensed ammunition vendors. And beginning July 1, 2019, all ammunition purchasers will be required to pass a background check before taking delivery of any ammunition.

Leading the lawsuit is Kim Rhode, a six-time Olympic medal winner who uses specialized ammunition approved by the International Shooting Sport Federation during the competitions she participates in. Joining her are several other law-abiding California gun owners and the following out of state businesses who can no longer ship ammunition directly to their California customers:

•   Able’s Sporting, Inc. (also known as “Able Ammo”)- Located in Huntsville, TX, Able Ammo specializes in discount hunting supplies, shooting supplies, hunting firearms, discount ammunition, and other firearm related accessories. Visit their website at https://www.ableammo.com/.
•   Ammunition Depot- Located in Boca Raton, FL, Ammunition Depot was founded by freedom-loving Americans who know that 1) It is every American’s right and responsibility to defend themselves, their family, and country; and, 2) without ammunition, none of that is possible. Visit their website at https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/.
•   Sam’s Shooters Emporium- Located in Lake Havasu City, AZ (just outside of California), Sam’s Shooters Emporium celebrated 20 years of business as the largest indoor shooting range in Arizona. The owners of Sam’s Shooters Emporium, Sam Scarmardo and his wife, are dedicated supporters of the Second Amendment and both NRA Life Members. Visit their website at http://www.samsguns.com/.

The lawsuit, titled Rhode v. Becerra, challenges California’s new ammunition sales restrictions as a violation of the Second Amendment and Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution.

The filing of Rhode marks the fourth lawsuit filed by NRA and CRPA attorneys challenging the provisions of Proposition 63 and the other “Gunmageddon” bills. Once such lawsuit, titled Duncan v. Becerra, has already succeeded in obtaining an important injunction against Proposition 63’s ban on the possession of magazines capable of holding more than ten rounds. The other two lawsuits, titled Rupp v. Becerra and Villanueva v. Becerra (both of which challenge California’s “assault weapon” restrictions and registration requirements), are also seeking injunctions while those lawsuits are pending.

Continue to check your inbox and the California Stand and Fight web page for updates on the Rhode case, as well as the other “Gunmageddon” lawsuits and important Second Amendment issues in California and throughout the nation.
 




Crafty_Dog

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Crafty_Dog

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Militia Act of 1792
« Reply #1869 on: May 22, 2018, 07:19:55 AM »






G M

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DougMacG

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Re: The Hogg effect
« Reply #1877 on: June 11, 2018, 08:55:51 AM »
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2018/06/04/hogg-effect-may-was-a-record-breaking-month-for-gun-sales-n2487345

The Left is so sure they are smarter than us with their ivy league credentials and college degree demographics yet they fail every time to see the very first level of unintended consequences of every one of their policies.

If he knew 2 cents worth of honest, recent history he would know Obama sold more guns than anyone. 

Generous homeless programs consistently increase the number of 'homeless'.
Extending unemployment programs consistently and measurably prolongs unemployment.
Regulate the hell out of investment banking and it keeps getting more profitable. for the biggest ones
Increase school funding and test scores go down.
Raise minimum wage and the people you are 'helping' lose their jobs.
Give the government total control over production and pollution is far worse.
Tax penalize the most expensive of yachts and yacht owners save money while shipbuilders lose their jobs.
Over-tax wealthy corporations and they leave.

Or the Ferguson-effect, stop policing troubled neighborhoods because of largely false or unfair racial accusations against police officers and the murder rate of black victims skyrockets.

When Hogg turns 18 (he already is?), can we start calling him out on his buffoonery?

ccp

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over 18
« Reply #1878 on: June 11, 2018, 09:14:29 AM »
David Hogg
Activist
David Miles Hogg is an American student who survived the Stoneman Douglas High School shooting on February 14, 2018, and afterward became a gun control advocate and an activist against gun violence in the United States. Wikipedia
Born: April 12, 2000 (age 18 years), Los Angeles, CA
Nationality: American
Education: Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School
Parents: Kevin Hogg
Residence: Parkland, Florida, U.S
Books: #NeverAgain: A New Generation Draws the Line
Siblings: Lauren Hogg

DougMacG

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Re: over 18, David Hogg sells guns with scare tactics
« Reply #1879 on: June 13, 2018, 06:10:21 AM »
quote author=ccp
David Hogg
Activist
Born: April 12, 2000 (age 18 years)
-------------------
I don't want to criticize him or name call the little twerp but isn't it strange to think that someone with near zero information and experience would have all the answers that none of the people older than him, 19-99, have been able to figure out.  He is going to persuade hundreds of millions without first understanding their view.  Good luck.

Get rid of the guns?  Great idea for criminals, terrorists, mentally unstable,  but their main purpose of guns is self defense.  To take away guns you take away rights and would have to tromp all over the constitution and or repeal the constitution and still fail to get guns from criminals.

Already mentioned, the 38th most liberal state needed to repeal the Second Amendment and all gun rights is South Dakota.  I wonder what percent of voters in S.D received a gun from a parent for their 16th birthday.  I'm guessing David Hogg has never been there or held a focus group there to learn views perhaps different than his. He can just call all of them accomplices in the latest mass shooting and woo their votes that way.  (

If the right to bear arms could be repealed and it can't, an estimated 10-20% of the population who may or may not own 80-90% of the guns and ammunition would not give up their weapons or right of self and family defense without a fight.  Visualize that, David Hogg.  Are you going in with a nuclear weapon to enforce the new law?  Have you studied Waco 1993, Ruby Ridge 1992?  You were how old then?  Have you read John Lott's books?  Would you like to fact check or debate his points?  Do you know how often a brandished gun PREVENTS a crime?  Or do you just repeat liberal drivel of your elders and think it's all your own new idea?

Crafty_Dog

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Crafty_Dog

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Sutter: How will they confiscate your guns
« Reply #1881 on: July 08, 2018, 06:28:48 PM »
.

How Will They Confiscate Your Guns?
by John A. Sutter
in California​

For decades I have heard gun owners claim that the government would never be able to confiscate our firearms because the government would lose too many men. The implication being, of course, that gun owners would actively resist confiscation, even to the point of shooting back. But I believe this thinking is outdated and doesn’t align very well with reality. But before you tell me how big your honor guard in Hell will be when that day comes, let’s think about how the government could really do it.

Suppose, for the sake of argument, the government bans all civilian possession of firearms at the end of this month. Congress passes a total ban and the President cuts his own re-election throat by signing it. Gun owners get some grace period to turn them in, even beyond the deadline, without being charged with a crime. If we use Australia and Britain as examples there will still be a significant number of firearms that are not turned in. Some estimates put the Australian turn-in at less than 25% and the British faired only about 28%. But Australians and the British have long been used to obeying almost every gun control law. Not so the Americans. When laws are passed that we don’t like, we bite. We scratch. Wevote. So here we sit after the guns have been collected and the amnesties have run out. Now what? Send out the personnel carriers, swat and shock troops to seize the guns from those militia “terrorists” who refused to turn them in? Don’t be silly.

The government has lots of records about you. If you purchased a firearm since 1968, chances are that they have some record of it somewhere. Most likely, it will take quite some time for them to compile all the serial numbers of “surrendered” guns (surrendered essentially at gunpoint) and cross off the ones you turned in. It’ll take more time for them to attempt to “clean up” their data. Say, about two years, maybe three. Add to that the hordes of people keypunching in hundreds of thousands of sales and registration records from hundreds of gun stores forced out of business. At some point the government decides they have something approaching a “good” database of unaccounted-for guns.

The next thing you’ll get from the government is an official looking notice that they think you still have a firearm. Their information will probably include all the information from registration forms, right down to the serial number. That notice will tell you that you’re in violation of the law, subject to prosecution and imprisonment. It will give you some period of time to surrender the gun. It will also give you a very limited number of days to return the form with an explanation of why you don’t have the gun, any proof you have, and your signature that the gun was lawfully disposed of. For many people the idea that the government “knows” they didn’t turn in that pistol or rifle and they have the detailed information about it will be enough to get them to surrender the gun. Some people will ignore the letter, others will scrawl a note that “I sold this in 1982 in a private sale”. After some time, the government will figure out how many guns are still out there and what the “compliance rate” is with the gun ban. More importantly, they’ll start sorting their database by the number of guns someone supposedly has “unaccounted”.

If you think they’ll come at these multiple-gun owners with a swat team, guess again. Their most likely tactic will be yet another letter (maybe two more) that generate what they’ll call “insufficient responses”. That means they can’t track a gun after you owned it. This they’ll use as fodder for a search warrant and/or perjury charges at a later date if they can. My guess is that the time between April and August will be a bad time for a lot of “former” gun owners. Remember that the BATF is an arm of the Treasury department and they control theIRS. You’ll probably get a notice in the mail that the IRS has some questions about your taxes or wants to audit you. When you make the appointment to visit the IRS they will pass that information to the BATF. While you are sweating over your deductions, the BATF and local police will execute a search warrant and search your home looking for guns. With you safely off site and distracted, essentially forced into “the royal presence” of the IRS they will snag your guns. Expect them to use slow-scan and ground penetrating radar to search walls, yards, under the patio or deck, the basement, etc. You might even find your hot tub has been drained and moved. Yes, they’ll search your car in the IRS parking lot too.

If you are one of the those people they suspect of having multiple guns and they don’t find any guns at your home, expect them to find and search storage facilities, safety deposit boxes and other places you might use. Warn your relatives who live nearby that they can expect a visit too, even (or perhaps especially) if they never owned a gun. If they are thorough, I’d expect the government agents to check your neighbors to see which of them previously owned a gun and perhaps search their homes, arguing that your neighbor could have held your guns while agents searched your home. Remember that at this point the government authorities don’t have much to fear from the general population. And by the time your complaints are run through the mill, rejected and turned into lawsuits, they’ll have changed the rules.

But you only have one gun you say? Fine. They won’t come looking for it. But they will make sure that possession of ammunition is also a serious crime. Don’t leave any loose cartridges around and where will you hide that case of ammo you rushed out to buy? Expect any “gun parts” to be made illegal at some point in time too. Spare magazines, maybe even old cleaning kits. Anything that says “gun” will be interpreted as “probable cause” to search your entire home. Also expect that you can never use that gun without becoming a serious felon in the eyes of the government. Even if some thug has repeatedly stabbed you with a large knife and threatened to rape your six year old daughter, they won’t forgive you for having the gun. They may even give you extra penalties for using it to save your family. Especially if you are one of the first few hundred people caught this way, they will use you to “set an example”. This will cause people to “bury” their guns away in hiding places, making them all but useless. If the government does come to confiscate it, you won’t be able to get to it fast enough and they will probably find it.

You’ve moved several times since you bought a gun? Remember showing your ID when you bought a gun? Remember writing down your place of birth? Why do you think the government has so many computers? Linking you to your new driver’s license in another state shouldn’t be too hard. Besides, the Treasury folks know where you work. Think you’re safe because you had unregistered guns? Think again. I would expect that the government’s database will contain a lot of old data. Some of it might indicate that a gun was sold to a resident at your address. If they can tie you to ammo sales or range use with your credit card in the previous 2 years you might get a surprise visit. Or that seller might have remembered you bought that gun from him and filled out his gun notice to get “off the hook” for that gun.

The point of this article is that by thinking in limited terms of a “raid” to confiscate guns we lose sight of the alternative methods the government can use. Put yourself in the government’s position and think of your own methods to avoid a conflict. Meanwhile, let’s ensure that every gun owner votes for gun rights this year and the next. You can think of a thousand excuses not to vote, not to help a campaign, not to help another gun owner register to vote. I can think of one important reason to do all of those.

Liberty!

G M

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DOJ, SAF REACH SETTLEMENT IN DEFENSE DISTRIBUTED LAWSUIT
« Reply #1882 on: July 10, 2018, 05:34:38 PM »
http://joshblackman.com/blog/2018/07/10/doj-second-amendment-foundation-reach-settlement-in-defense-distributed-lawsuit/

DOJ, SAF REACH SETTLEMENT IN DEFENSE DISTRIBUTED LAWSUIT
For Immediate Release                                      Contact:  Alan Gottlieb (425) 454-7012

BELLEVUE, WA – The Department of Justice and Second Amendment Foundation have reached a settlement in SAF’s lawsuit on behalf of Cody Wilson and Defense Distributed over free speech issues related to 3-D files and other information that may be used to manufacture lawful firearms.

SAF and Defense Distributed had filed suit against the State Department under the Obama administration, challenging a May 2013 attempt to control public speech as an export under the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR), a Cold War-era law intended to control exports of military articles.

Under terms of the settlement, the government has agreed to waive its prior restraint against the plaintiffs, allowing them to freely publish the 3-D files and other information at issue. The government has also agreed to pay a significant portion of the plaintiffs’ attorney’s fees, and to return $10,000 in State Department registration dues paid by Defense Distributed as a result of the prior restraint.

Significantly, the government expressly acknowledges that non-automatic firearms up to .50-caliber – including modern semi-auto sporting rifles such as the popular AR-15 and similar firearms – are not inherently military.

“Not only is this a First Amendment victory for free speech, it also is a devastating blow to the gun prohibition lobby,” noted SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan M. Gottlieb. “For years, anti-gunners have contended that modern semi-automatic sport-utility rifles are so-called ‘weapons of war,’ and with this settlement, the government has acknowledged they are nothing of the sort.

“Under this settlement,” he continued, “the government will draft and pursue regulatory amendments that eliminate ITAR control over the technical information at the center of this case. They will transfer export jurisdiction to the Commerce Department, which does not impose prior restraint on public speech. That will allow Defense Distributed and SAF to publish information about 3-D technology.”

The Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org) is the nation’s oldest and largest tax-exempt education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the Constitutional right and heritage to privately own and possess firearms.  Founded in 1974, The Foundation has grown to more than 600,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control.

Crafty_Dog

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Lloyd de Jongh on the Shiba and the Akita
« Reply #1883 on: July 10, 2018, 09:48:10 PM »
Thanks for that GM.  I will be forwarding it to an attorney friend interested in these things.

====================

And now a bit of a change of pace for this thread, Llloyd de Jongh endorsing my knife:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzv7g2cSwNE&feature=youtu.be

Crafty_Dog

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Whoa!!! DOJ settles landmark gun suit
« Reply #1884 on: July 11, 2018, 01:46:13 PM »

https://www.dailywire.com/news/32872/doj-settles-landmark-gun-suit-safeguarding-second-amanda-prestigiacomo?utm_medium=email&utm_content=071118-news&utm_campaign=position2

The big takeaway here is that the federal government, in the language of the settlement, stated that semi-automatic firearms below .50 cal are not inherently military in nature.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 07:54:26 AM by Crafty_Dog »

Crafty_Dog

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Seattle passes gun storage law
« Reply #1885 on: July 13, 2018, 06:53:12 AM »



https://bearingarms.com/tom-k/2018/07/10/seattle-passes-firearm-storage-requirement-law/

The Seattle City Council unanimously approved two gun control regulations Monday, originally proposed by Mayor Jenny Durkan, that require safe storage of firearms. Seattle residents now face penalties if they do not safely store their firearms or report lost and stolen guns.
“For me it’s very simple,” said Council President Bruce Harrell. “We are just trying to save one life at a time. Whether this law or any law drastically changes the needle, that concerns me less. We are trying to save one life at a time.”​

Of course, neither of these laws will save anyone’s life. While mandatory storage laws might make it more difficult for non-approved people to get their hands on a firearm, that’s countered by the difficulty people will have in accessing the gun when needed.

Mandatory reporting laws do nothing to prevent violence, nothing at all. At best, they’ll simply let police know another gun is on the street. That’s it.

To make matters worse, it appears that the law will basically make gun owners guilty until proven innocent.

Seattle’s safe storage regulation, and the rules on reporting lost and stolen guns, state:

    Safe storage: Guns should be stored in a locked container, and rendered as unusable to any person other than the owner or authorized user.
    Unauthorized access prevention: It will be a civil infraction if a minor, at-risk, or prohibited person obtains a firearm when the owner should have reasonably known they would have access to it.
    Violation of the safe-storage law, or the unauthorized access regulation could result in a fine between $500 and $1,000.
    If a prohibited or at-risk person, or a minor obtains a firearm and uses it to commit a crime, injure or kill someone (including themselves), the gun owner could be fined up to $10,000.
    If a civil case results from prohibited access, it will be “prima facie evidence” that they are negligent. That means it is immediately a fact, unless proven otherwise.
    The new gun law will go into effect 180 days after it passes and Mayor Durkan signs it.


Now, that little tidbit of prohibited access to a gun will be taken as prima facie evidence of negligence may ultimately end up being a poison pill for the whole thing. While it’s a civil case, it’s still requiring people to prove their own innocence rather than the other way around. As a general rule, that’s not how the American court system is supposed to work.

Then again, it’s not like Seattle gives a flying flip about anyone’s constitutional rights or anything else.
 
8-21-2015


Crafty_Dog

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9th circuit requires non-existant microstamp technology
« Reply #1887 on: August 11, 2018, 09:16:33 AM »

NRA ILA
APPEARS IN Legal & Legislation News
Divided Appeals Panel Upholds California Ban on Post-2013 Pistols

Friday, August 10, 2018 Divided Appeals Panel Upholds California Ban on Post-2013 Pistols
Support NRA-ILA

Imagine if California, to combat what the legislature considered the serious problem of manmade global warming, required all new vehicles sold by car dealers in the state to run on grass clippings, rather than fossil fuels.

Would it be fair to say that California was legitimately addressing serious environmental problems and promoting innovation?

Or would the more obvious conclusion be that California simply wanted to ban the sale of new cars?

If you agree with second option, you’d likely be in the minority of a recent Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals panel that found another non-existent technology – in that case, a microstamping requirement that applies to newly-introduced semiautomatic pistols – to be consistent with the Second Amendment.

In other words, two out of three judges ruled design requirements that no manufacturer can satisfy nor that are useful enough to be in development by any manufacturer can still be a prerequisite for the lawful commercial sale of constitutionally-protected handguns in the state.

The third judge, Jay S. Bybee – a George W. Bush appointee – dissented from the majority’s ruling on the microstamping issue. “[W]e must,” he wrote, “take Plaintiffs Second Amendment claims seriously.”

The case is Pena v. Lindley.

The dispute stems from California’s so-called “Unsafe Handgun Act” (UHA). The UHA purports to promote public safety by weeding out “unsafe” handguns from commercial sale by a series of design requirements for semiautomatic pistols that must be met by the manufacturer. These include a “chamber load indicator,” a “magazine detachment mechanism” (to prevent firing of the pistol with the magazine removed), and a requirement that the pistol legibly imprint an array of information (including the firearm’s make, model, and serial number) on two locations on each fired cartridge case.  The microstamping requirement took effect in 2013, when  then-attorney general Kamala Harris determined “that the technology used to create the imprint is available to more than one manufacturer unencumbered by any patent restrictions."

To offer new models of pistols for sale in the state, manufacturers must submit three samples to a state-certified laboratory for testing, as well as pay for the testing and other administrative costs. All three pistols must meet standards established in regulations by the California Department of Justice (CDOJ) in multiple repetitions of required tests. Significantly, CDOJ’s dual microstamping standards were not designed around proven, existing technology. Rather, they were purposely designed to force manufacturers to develop and adopt technology that was not yet available in the commercial sphere.

To date, however, no manufacturer has done so, and as far as industry representatives involved in the case were aware, no manufacturer has no plans or intentions to try. This is manifestly because of an industry-wide belief that any microstamping that could satisfy CDOJ’s standards is technically infeasible and even if developed would be ineffective, easily defeated, and economically impractical.

The upshot is that the only firearms that may be commercially sold in the state are designs that existed before the date in 2013 on which the microstamping mandate took effect. Such models are “grandfathered” under the law, provided the manufacturer continues to satisfy the bureaucracy and fees necessary to keep them on the California’s roster of “not unsafe” handguns. Any changes to the design – including non-mandatory safety features that weren’t incorporated in 2013 – requires the model to be retested and to meet the current standards, including those pertaining to microstamping.

The irony is that California’s law effectively deprives state residents of market-driven changes in design available to residents of other states that improve the safety and utility of modern pistols. And as the dissenting judge noted, the all-or-nothing nature of the requirements means that few pistols sold in California even have chamber load indicators and magazine detachment mechanisms – which are now technically feasible – because few designs in 2013 incorporated them. Thus, a law that is supposedly intended to force innovation in pistol “safety” actually confines state residents to increasingly dated technology.

Indeed, the law virtually ensures that there will come a time when the only semiautomatic pistols lawfully available for sale in California will be used models that are many years old.

None of that, however, bothered the two judges in the panel’s majority, who breezily concluded that even if the law burdened conduct protected by the Second Amendment, the state’s “public safety” interest and legislative “fact-finding” satisfied the low bar of “intermediate scrutiny.”

Yet even by the standards of politically-motivated judicial activism, the majority did not – as the dissent indicated – “take Plaintiffs’ Second Amendment claims seriously.” Indeed, the majority opinion written by Clinton-appointed Judge Mary Margaret McKeown is riddled with errors that have nothing to do with legal opinion or judicial philosophy but that simply misstate or misrepresent plain facts. The following are just a few examples.

First, the opinion stated that the Second Amendment question must be “framed by a two-step inquiry established in [District of Columbia v.] Heller,” i.e., the determination of “whether the Act burdens conduct protected by the Second Amendment,” and if it does, the application of an “appropriate level of scrutiny” (internal quotation marks omitted).

The Supreme Court’s opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller, however, established no such two-part test. The court there found that the text, history, and tradition of the Second Amendment would not countenance a handgun ban. In doing so, it expressly declined to apply a level of scrutiny analysis, rejecting the dissent’s call for an “interest-balancing” inquiry.

In fact, Judge Brett Kavanaugh – President Trump’s current nominee to the U.S. Supreme Court – opined when dissenting from the application of the “two-step” method in another case that Heller actually forbids such a test. “Heller and McDonald rejected the use of balancing tests – including, therefore, strict or intermediate scrutiny – in fleshing out the scope of the Second Amendment right,” he wrote.

Whether or not Judge Kavanaugh is correct about what Heller’s mode of analysis permitted in subsequent cases, and even if the majority were following the method established in other Ninth Circuit cases, Judge McKeown’s claim the Supreme Court “established” a two-step inquiry for resolving Second Amendment cases in Heller is plainly false.

Also false is her suggestion that Heller would allow for modern handguns popularly chosen for self-defense to be banned in a certain jurisdiction because the jurisdiction has chosen other types of firearms to remain available. Among the arguments the District made in Heller to salvage its handgun ban was that the right to armed self-defense was satisfied because rifles and pistols were still (at least theoretically) available.

This reasoning was squarely rejected by the U.S. Supreme Court, however. “It is no answer to say, as petitioners do, that it is permissible to ban the possession of handguns so long as the possession of other firearms (i.e., long guns) is allowed,” Justice Scalia wrote for the majority. “It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon.”

Justices Thomas and Scalia later made the same point when dissenting from the Supreme Court’s refusal to review a lower court decision upholding a broad ban on semiautomatic firearms. “The question under Heller is not whether citizens have adequate alternatives available for self-defense, Thomas noted. “Rather, Heller asks whether the law bans types of firearms commonly used for a lawful purpose—regardless of whether alternatives exist.”

Thus, even if the majority in Pena v. Lindley could rely on prior lower court precedent to make the “adequate alternatives” argument, a court that wanted to be consistent with the controlling precedent of the nation’s highest court would not.

Perhaps most embarrassingly, Judge McKeown seemed unaware of the difference between bullets and cartridges cases when analyzing the strength of the state’s interest in enforcing its microstamping requirement. Judge McKeown cited a prior case from another circuit that held the ability to conduct serial number tracing on firearms constituted an important state interest. “The same logic applies to recovered bullets, and counsels the conclusion that limiting the availability of untraceable bullets serves a substantial government interest,” she wrote.

Yet the law does not require fired bullets to be microstamped. Rather, it requires fired cartridge cases to be microstamped. While a criminal investigator might be able to tell which firearm ejected a particular cartridge case, that would not necessarily determine whether a bullet, even of the same caliber recovered at the same scene, came from the same gun. Indeed, cunning criminals could switch firing pins between guns of the same make and model or drop previously fired cartridge cases at a crime scene specifically to confuse criminal investigators.

Thus, Judge McKeown apparently didn’t understand to which component of a round of ammunition the microstamping requirement applies or she didn’t understand the difference between a fired bullet and a spent cartridge case. These differences, however, are crucial in understanding why people who are knowledgeable about firearms are so skeptical about microstamping’s utility. Microstamping could produce a lead in a case. Or it could just as easily be used to plant an intentional red herring.

The dissent also takes issue with the information the legislature used and the majority relied upon to determine that microstamping, as eventually required by the law, would be feasible. In particular, the state relied on tests conducted by the inventor of microstamping that used different protocols than the testing standards later implemented by CDOJ. For example, the inventor’s testing used far more powerful microscopes than can be used in the CDOJ protocols to examine the imprints on spent casings and did not specify whether dual markings or only one set of markings consistently remained legible. This, plus testimony from industry experts that they could not feasibly meet the CDOJ standards, meant that the case was inappropriate for summary dismissal as a purely legal dispute. “I do not see how the majority gets to decide at summary judgment what ‘the reality is’ when there is conflicting evidence in the record,” Judge Bybee wrote. He also implied that it strained credibility that major manufacturers would give up the opportunity to sell “their new generations of handguns in a major market like California” if they had any choice.

Regarding the state’s certification in 2013 about the “availability” of the technology, Judge Bybee noted this "this certification confirms the lack of any patent restrictions on the imprinting technology, not the availability of the technology itself."

“If the requirement is impossible to comply with,” the dissent concluded, “it imposes a burden without advancing any state interest.”

Finally, Judge Bybee rejected the majority’s suggestion that the microstamping requirement is “presumptively lawful” because it is a “condition and qualification on commercial sales” of firearms, a category of laws that Heller suggested was compatible with the Second Amendment. “Whatever the contours of the commercial sales category, Heller cannot mean that the State can ban the sales of arms—whether it does so directly or indirectly by imposing conditions on features that commercially sold firearms must possess,” he stated.

Reduced to their essence, the facts of the case strongly suggest that the state’s real goal is simply banning modern pistols, which of course is an outcome that any fair reading of the U.S. Supreme Court’s prior Second Amendment cases would prohibit.

Needless to say, that precedent is not getting a fair reading in most decisions of lower courts, with Pena v. Lindley being just the latest and among the more egregious examples.

President Trump’s nomination of Judge Kavanaugh for the Supreme Court could mean that help is on the way. In the meantime, however, lower courts are continuing to thumb their noses at the Second Amendment and the Heller majority, even to the extent of sanctioning broad bans on firearms that law-abiding people overwhelmingly choose for self-defense.

Crafty_Dog

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ccp

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Re: We the Well-armed People (gun and knife rights stuff )
« Reply #1889 on: August 26, 2018, 05:46:02 PM »
I say to Hollywood celebrities who call for the end to the second amendment  that  they give back every cent .  That is every cent they profited from entertainment that has guns in it.
That goes for Alyssa Milano , Morgan Freeman and the thousands of others.

every cent .  donate it to the national debt.

G M

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Re: We the Well-armed People (gun and knife rights stuff )
« Reply #1890 on: August 26, 2018, 07:19:51 PM »
I say to Hollywood celebrities who call for the end to the second amendment  that  they give back every cent .  That is every cent they profited from entertainment that has guns in it.
That goes for Alyssa Milano , Morgan Freeman and the thousands of others.

every cent .  donate it to the national debt.

They aren't anti-gun, they are against the unwashed masses owning guns.

DougMacG

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« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 10:41:39 AM by Crafty_Dog »


Crafty_Dog

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Re: We the Well-armed People (gun and knife rights stuff )
« Reply #1893 on: September 01, 2018, 10:41:14 AM »
Doug's post of the Lott article is a very important one!




G M

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« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 10:45:07 AM by G M »


Crafty_Dog

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