Author Topic: Israel, and its neighbors  (Read 980979 times)


Body-by-Guinness

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 3229
    • View Profile
Count of Non-Israeli Killed & Missing
« Reply #2651 on: October 13, 2023, 04:09:02 AM »

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72241
    • View Profile
Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2652 on: October 13, 2023, 05:54:03 AM »
Maybe they have a finite quantity for this purpose, with the military claiming priority?

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72241
    • View Profile
WRM: Wake up!!!
« Reply #2653 on: October 13, 2023, 07:09:04 AM »



A Middle East Wake-Up Call
Hamas’s atrocities make complacency much harder to sustain. But will we face up to the Iranian threat?
Walter Russell Mead
Oct. 12, 2023 12:29 pm ET



Almost a week after Hamas fanatics bent on murder slipped across the borders of Gaza, the world is still struggling to process the shock. It will be months or perhaps years before the full consequences of this attack can finally be assessed, and we do not know if the war in Gaza will spread across the Middle East and possibly beyond.

But three consequences of the attack can already be discerned. First, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been seriously and maybe irrevocably wounded. Mr. Netanyahu has argued that he was the indispensable man who alone had the stature and vision to guide a small nation in a rough world—even if the price of his continued leadership involved bringing an unruly and chaotic coalition to power and a year of all-consuming domestic political strife. That seems harder to justify now.

Similarly, the belief among some on the Israeli right that Israel was strong enough and the Palestinians were isolated enough so that expanding settlements on the West Bank entailed no real risks or costs has been exposed as a dangerous delusion. The decision to plunge Israel into a year of turmoil over judicial-reform proposals also looks more questionable in light of the Hamas attacks.

Israel needs a sober government. Too many of the parties in the current coalition are too poorly led, impulsive and prone to wishful thinking to provide the leadership an embattled nation needs. Wednesday’s announcement of a wartime freeze on controversial legislation and a unity government with an experienced war cabinet will help Israel focus on the tasks at hand, but a serious political reckoning lies ahead.

Second, while the Israeli right has lost ground, the cause of the Palestinians has suffered even more. After these attacks, the two-state solution is sick, and the one-state solution is dead.

The time may come when the establishment of an independent Palestinian state returns to the agenda, but I see no prospect that any Israeli government of any party would embrace this cause now. The danger that Hamas-linked genocidaires would take over is too real to make the idea acceptable to Israelis. Israeli politicians must make the survival of Israel the supreme goal of their policies. Thanks to Hamas, the goal of Palestinian independence is further off than ever.

The idea of combining the two peoples into a single state is even more absurd. No sane person can imagine that Israelis would accept millions (or even tens of thousands) of Hamas supporters as fellow citizens of a common state. No serious person would ask them to.

Third, the ability of the Muslim Brotherhood (of which Hamas is a member) to advance democracy in the Arab world has sustained a staggering, perhaps fatal blow. Until the brotherhood unambiguously repudiates Hamas, its credibility as a stabilizing democratic force will collapse. Western governments and nongovernmental organizations will have to review their links with Hamas-supporting groups, and Western pressure for democratization in the Arab world will weaken even further.

If some things have become clear in the wake of the attacks, important questions remain. The most immediate and urgent concern the possible spread of the war and the role of Iran. The Iranian proxy Hezbollah has launched rockets into Israel and, with an arsenal of more than 100,000 rockets and missiles at its disposal, could significantly widen the conflict. The Iranian regime has poured money into Hamas and provided technical training, weapons and political cover without which attacks on this scale couldn’t have happened.

Washington’s first priority, correctly, has been to reduce the chance of escalation by moving forces into the region and warning Iran and Hezbollah to keep their distance. “Don’t,” was President Biden’s advice for any country or armed group thinking of attacking Israel during this crisis.

For Israel, the priority is to deal directly with Hamas. But soon both Washington and Jerusalem must develop a response to Iran’s undoubted role as funder and sponsor of these attacks. Lawyerly quibbles about the exact details of Iran’s involvement can’t obscure the reality that its role was sufficient to demand a response. If the U.S. and Israel are, in effect, deterred by their fears of Iranian retaliation from inflicting this price, Iran has achieved its long-sought hegemonic position in the Middle East even without the nuclear weapons it will soon possess. It can attack Israel without being punished. It will do so again. Israel and the U.S. must either act or accept this new reality.

The Biden administration has a historic choice to make. Strategic passivity in the face of Iran’s relentless and remorseless rise to regional power was the central plank of President Obama’s Middle East policy and has largely guided policy in the Biden years. The Biden administration hoped that U.S. security guarantees to Israel and Saudi Arabia could maintain a regional balance in the face of growing Iranian power. The Hamas attacks were intended to frustrate this initiative. Iran is determined to destroy the Jewish state and to banish American power from a region that remains vital to the peace and prosperity of the world. Mr. Biden must decide whether he will stand his ground or cede regional leadership to a hostile Iran.

Finally, there is the question of whethe

ccp

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19754
    • View Profile
Map of Israel
« Reply #2654 on: October 13, 2023, 07:57:02 AM »
can anyone see it?

Last I looked 1.5 billion Muslims in the world.  I refreshed the number yesterday and it is now  1.9 billion and growing faster than any other group:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslims#/media/File:Islam_percent_population_in_each_nation_World_Map_Muslim_data_by_Pew_Research.svg

Yet 7 million Jews and the State of Israel need by destroyed.

JIHAD!!!!!!!!



Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72241
    • View Profile
GPF
« Reply #2655 on: October 13, 2023, 10:29:16 AM »
   
Daily Memo: Israel's Warning to Palestinians
Egypt, for its part, urged the people of Gaza not to leave the territory.
By: Geopolitical Futures
Israel sends a warning. The Israel Defense Forces issued a statement on Friday warning Palestinians in Gaza to evacuate to the southern part of the strip for their own safety within 24 hours. They were also asked not to approach the area of Gaza bordering Israel. Israel also declared parts of the northern city of Metula, on the border with Lebanon, a closed military zone. Meanwhile, U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Friday.

Egypt's input. Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sissi said Palestinians should “remain on their land” following calls for Cairo to allow those left in Gaza to flee to Egypt. El-Sissi argued that, though Cairo is sympathetic to their plight, there is a danger of “liquidation” of the Palestinian cause if they leave the besieged enclave. Relatedly, Egypt’s Foreign Ministry clarified that the Rafah border crossing between Egypt and Gaza remains open, despite reports that it had been closed. Meanwhile, Turkish Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan is in Egypt for talks on bilateral relations and the situation in Israel.

Putin's offer. Speaking at a leaders summit of the Commonwealth of Independent States, Russian President Vladimir Putin offered to act as a mediator in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. He said that Israel has the right to defend its citizens but that a solution must involve the establishment of a Palestinian state with its capital in East Jerusalem. He also said an Israeli ground operation in Gaza would lead to grave consequences for the civilian population.

Russian wheat. Also at the summit, Putin declared that Russia can meet the food needs of all its CIS partners. This comes as it was reported this week that Egypt’s Food Procurement Agency has agreed to purchase almost 800,000 tons of wheat from Russia.

ccp

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19754
    • View Profile
Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2656 on: October 13, 2023, 10:33:53 AM »
"Putin's offer. Speaking at a leaders summit of the Commonwealth of Independent States, Russian President Vladimir Putin offered to act as a mediator in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. He said that Israel has the right to defend its citizens but that a solution must involve the establishment of a Palestinian state with its capital in East Jerusalem. He also said an Israeli ground operation in Gaza would lead to grave consequences for the civilian population."

apart that anything that comes from Putin to mediate would not be in our interests

NO ONE claims to know how to deal with HAMAS and other Jihadists.

I recall Putin gassed a building that had Chechen Muslims terrorists in it yrs ago.

Maybe offer rewards to Palenstinians above and beyond pensions to turn in Hamas members.




Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72241
    • View Profile
Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2657 on: October 13, 2023, 10:55:30 AM »
Reads to me like he is just looking to stir things up and be a nuisance so as to increase leverage.

Body-by-Guinness

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 3229
    • View Profile
Equivocation Exposed
« Reply #2658 on: October 13, 2023, 06:33:34 PM »
This piece does a fine job of demonstrating the claims that Israel is no better than Hamas are utter balderdash:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1712797668148150545.html?fbclid=IwAR0_b5S7k9SwTko-BTOUn29YxvyYiQ6sHwYcN4_EDhwhqM0yLopgsykAy_c


ccp

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19754
    • View Profile
there was another quote but I cannot find it now
« Reply #2660 on: October 14, 2023, 10:17:38 PM »
it was either a Roman Caesar or general who said to the enemy  -

you want peace, we will give you peace.

you want war, we will give you war.

Rome was ready for either - it did not matter to them.

Hamas wants war - well they will have it.

We don't choose it - they did.


Body-by-Guinness

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 3229
    • View Profile
Is Planning a Response While Grieving Going to Bear Fruit?
« Reply #2661 on: October 15, 2023, 12:26:42 AM »
I like most think Israel has every right to stamp out every Hamas viper nest, but in their grief can Israeli planners develop a strategy that well serves its ends? This piece explores that question:

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/13/in-israel-theres-grief-anger-and-determination-but-whats-the-plan-00121366

ccp

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19754
    • View Profile
Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2662 on: October 15, 2023, 09:41:57 AM »
When I see the radicals holding "free Palestine" signs all I can think of is why not demand this of Hamas, not Jews.


Body-by-Guinness

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 3229
    • View Profile
Weapons Israel has Found in Gaza
« Reply #2664 on: October 16, 2023, 08:37:27 AM »
2nd post from the same source. Israel has found weapons in Gaza the strongly indicate Iranian assistance (which is not a big surprise) as well as Russian anti-aircraft missiles that are a concern unto themselves. No clue how many cutouts the latter have run through, but it may more than suggest Putin is playing peacemaker while arming a savage side of the argument.

https://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2023/10/idf-seizes-efps-rpgs-and-other-weapons-from-hamas.php?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=idf-seizes-efps-rpgs-and-other-weapons-from-hamas

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72241
    • View Profile

ccp

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19754
    • View Profile
yes we will see more of this
« Reply #2666 on: October 17, 2023, 07:43:22 AM »
also, the anti Bibi Iran apologists libs in the Obama-Biden administration aligning with the libs in Israel

will also at some point become more and more vocal.

Jack Lew should be sent home packing :

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/israel-needs-us-ambassador-but-gop-bridles-at-biden-nominees-iran-record/ar-AA1imdRI


ccp

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19754
    • View Profile
Ananpour - again
« Reply #2667 on: October 17, 2023, 08:17:36 AM »
Her guest claims this is all Netanyahu's fault.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/this-is-an-attack-not-on-hamas-it-s-an-attack-against-2-3-million-people-in-gaza-says-palestinian-politician/vi-AA1ijfxI?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=8b7b50ef7b83413e814f53a71683da88&ei=53

oh, if only he had let Abbass have democratic elections

there would not be hundreds of kilometers of military tunnels beneath hospitals schools mosques

there would not be abundant weapons and apparently 10's of thousands well trained terrorists in Gaza

I guess I could spend more time reading about Mahmoud Abbas
 and Fatah.

My understanding is that he is no angel but I admit I am cloudy on this.

I am not clear he has control over Hamas .

It sounds like he doesn't.

Did anyone here the phrase :

"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer "

Not clear to me where this came from.  Maybe it was Don Corleone in the Godfather:

It was also attributed to Sun Tzu but I found this:

Misattributed
Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.
This has often been attributed to Sun Tzu and sometimes to Petrarch. It comes most directly from a line spoken by Michael Corleone in The Godfather Part II (1974), written by Mario Puzo and Francis Ford Coppola:
My father taught me many things here. He taught me in this room. He taught me: keep your friends close but your enemies closer.
Niccolò Machiavelli, who is also sometimes credited, wrote on the subject in The Prince:
It is easier for the prince to make friends of those men who were contented under the former government, and are therefore his enemies, than of those who, being discontented with it, were favourable to him and encouraged him to seize it.
There are also some attributions of a relatable comment to Genghis Khan:
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.
This is sometimes attributed to Sun Tzu in combination with the above quote, as well as alone, but it too has not been sourced to any published translation of The Art of War, though it is similar in concept to his famous statement in Ch. 3 : "It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles..."





DougMacG

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19441
    • View Profile
Re: The attack on Netanyahu-- we will see this seized upon more and more
« Reply #2668 on: October 17, 2023, 08:26:31 AM »
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1713636496287150257.html

"If you're about to lose power and your people are mass protesting you for your corruption, just start a war and everyone will forget about it immediately and still unify behind you. Oldest trick in the book."


   - Who started the war?  Blame the victim?  I even wonder who started the corruption charges, it seemed to start right after the Obama cabal tried to defeat him.  All the election meddling they alleged here.

Their politics seem to be as divided as ours. Too bad, because both nations should focus on a small survival problem.

Yes you can see it switch, at least here.  About 2 days of shock for an attack on the innocent, 30 times proportionally worse than our 911.  Now MSM and the Left (redundancy alert) are preparing to be eternally outraged by Israel's response.

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72241
    • View Profile
Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2669 on: October 17, 2023, 12:52:33 PM »
A not so latent appeal to Jewish conspiracy bigotry IMHO.


Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72241
    • View Profile
Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2671 on: October 18, 2023, 08:05:25 AM »
The Gaza Refugee Problem
The truth is nobody wants Palestinian Arabs, which Hamas has used to its advantage.

Thomas Gallatin


As much as Palestinian apologists bemoan Israel's supposed "oppression" of the Arab population living in the Gaza Strip, the truth is that nobody wants them. With Hamas terrorists running the show in Gaza, it's effectively a situation of the inmates running their own prison. Palestinians are suffering in Gaza primarily because of Hamas, not Israel.

So, with this latest war between Israel and Hamas, Palestinians will once again be the biggest losers. Israel is on the cusp of launching a massive ground assault through which Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vows to eradicate Hamas once and for all. Yet the Islamic Middle Eastern nations that feign concern for the Palestinians are absolutely unwilling to accept them as refugees.

Egypt could open its border with Gaza to let the million or so fleeing refugees in, but it won't. This works in Hamas's favor, as its jihadists use civilians as human shields to protect themselves from Israel's military assault, banking on a high civilian casualty count to win sympathy from the rest of the world that has been duped into overlooking its genetical anti-Semitic credo.

At least one European official sees clearly through Hamas's gambit. German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock insightfully observed: "Hamas brings nothing but suffering and death to the people — in Israel and in Gaza. It is Hamas's perfidious strategy to use the civilian population as a human shield. Terrorism's cynical plan must not be allowed to take hold. Civilians need safe spaces where they can find protection and have their essential needs met."

But as noted above, Egypt won't provide that "safe space." So, is Egypt the bad guy here? Or Jordan? Or Saudi Arabia?

What these Middle Eastern nations know is that accepting a massive influx of refugees is no small matter, as it can create politically and economically destabilizing events. And there is no guarantee that Hamas terrorists won't slip in with the Palestinian refugees.

Most of the cultural instability that has been rankling Europe is tied directly to its open-border embrace of massive numbers of migrants. This was on full display in major European cities, and even in the U.S., where groups of foreigners celebrated Hamas's murderous attack.

Like Europe, Joe Biden's de facto open-border policy threatens and undermines America. As millions of illegal aliens have entered the U.S. on Biden's watch, among them are an unknown number of Islamists from the Middle East. More than 600 suspected terrorists were apprehended. We don't know how many weren't. Obviously, jihadi terrorists see the open U.S. southern border as a prime means of gaining entry and establishing terror cells within America.

Nevertheless, many Democrats insist that we open our borders further. "The international community as well as the United States should be prepared to welcome refugees from Palestine while being very careful to vet and not allow members of Hamas," declared New York Democrat Congressman Jamaal "Fire Alarm" Bowman.

Florida governor and Republican presidential candidate Ron DeSantis recognizes this as a problem. "I don't know what Biden's gonna do, but we cannot accept people from Gaza into this country as refugees," he argued. "I am not going to do that. If you look at how they behave, not all of them are Hamas, but they are all anti-Semitic. None of them believe in Israel's right to exist."

DeSantis's message is clear. The basic standard for anyone seeking to enter the U.S. is that if you object to our value system, if you object to our nation, then you should not be allowed in, period.

"We've got some serious problems in this country," DeSantis added. "We've allowed a lot of these problems to fester. But my view is very simple: If you don't like this country, if you hate America, you should not come to this country. We've got to start being smart about this." Exactly.

Love of country demands that one priorities the protection of country over all others. If refugees hate our country, they should not be brought in because all they will do is seek to destroy the U.S., not seek to build up the country. Exhibit A is Jamaal's "Squad" pal, Minnesota Democrat Representative Ilhan Omar, who continuously voices anti-American views and preaches false narratives about our founding and our history.

As that old expression goes, good fences make good neighbors. In other words, the respecting of others' boundaries and property is key to respecting each other. Those who seek to undermine the boundaries don't have their neighbors' best interests at heart.



ccp

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19754
    • View Profile
Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2674 on: October 18, 2023, 07:49:04 PM »
I don't recall seeing anyone in the Arab world

ever simply call for Hamas

"release the hostages"

or

"lay down your weapons and surrender."

OTOH I have yet to see anyone in media do this either!

all I ever see are calls for Israel to do this or that.

Israel must use restraint, must be careful, do not rush, stop the carnage, and on and on.

Not that I would expect people who dedicated their entire reason to live to killing Jews and wiping them from Israel to actually concede.







ccp

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19754
    • View Profile
2nd post so where do Palenstinians live
« Reply #2675 on: October 18, 2023, 07:52:13 PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_diaspora

I can understand why Jordan does not want any more.

DougMacG

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19441
    • View Profile
Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2676 on: October 19, 2023, 05:46:36 AM »
Iran-backed militant groups Hamas and Hezbollah are closely coordinating their next steps in fighting against Israel, a senior Hamas representative in Lebanon told POLITICO on Tuesday, just hours after Tehran warned of “preemptive action” against Israel.Ahmed Abdul-Hadi, the head of Hamas’ political bureau in Beirut, insisted Gaza-based Hamas had not given its ally Hezbollah any advance notice of its attacks against Israel on October 7, which killed more than 1,400 people. Despite this, however, he described a continual cooperation between the two groups, stressing Hezbollah was now “geared for a major war” against Israel in the north, while Hamas would burst Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s “dream” of driving it out of Gaza. The remarks will heighten fears the conflict in the Middle East could be about to spill onto two fronts and engulf Lebanon, particularly if Israel launches a ground invasion of Gaza. (Source: politico.eu)

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72241
    • View Profile
Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2677 on: October 19, 2023, 06:10:14 AM »
IIRC the last time Israel went into Lebanon it was thinking of driving all the way to the Bekka Valley, but their losses were such that they changed their minds and went home.

Presumably Hezbollah, just like we have just seen with Hamas, is much stronger now.


Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72241
    • View Profile
Hersch: The Samson Option
« Reply #2679 on: October 19, 2023, 06:44:43 AM »
third post

Hersch is a source of proven , , , variable reliability. 

FWIW:

https://archive.org/details/Sampson_Option

ccp

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19754
    • View Profile
Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2680 on: October 19, 2023, 08:24:24 AM »
"Democrats Have a Palestinian Problem".   

Yes I get it - many young Democrats side with Palestinians

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/democrats-have-a-palestinian-problem/ar-AA1iv0db?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=e7956bd42338405e822f1acc12267644&ei=12

but the truth is we ALL have a Palestinian problem.

Ever since Yassar started hyjacking airplanes in the 60s the world has been forced under threats of terror to cave into them.

Their propaganda war works

with 1.9 billion Muslims around the world campaigning for them against Israel.

we can't even flood their tunnels as done in past due to hostages.

negotiating only invites further

thanks to the "rules of war" diatribe we are hamstrung.

I am thinking we should bomb Iran ports and strangle their oil process
to pressure them into pressuring their proxies.





Body-by-Guinness

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 3229
    • View Profile
“The horror, the horror…”
« Reply #2681 on: October 19, 2023, 08:31:17 AM »
“… exterminate the brutes.”

A description of how a family was tortured. Not for the faint of heart.

https://x.com/MarinaMedvin/status/1714847625130762425?s=20

ccp

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19754
    • View Profile
Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2682 on: October 19, 2023, 08:41:49 AM »
we have same problem just South of border

with the terrorists cartels

force seems like the only answer.

ccp

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19754
    • View Profile


ccp

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19754
    • View Profile
righteous man resigns from Dept. of State
« Reply #2685 on: October 19, 2023, 01:08:10 PM »
https://www.yahoo.com/news/couldnt-shift-anything-senior-state-230445518.html

" Paul described Hamas’ assault on Israel ― which killed more than 1,400 people ― as “a monstrosity of monstrosities.”

“But I believe to the core of my soul that the response Israel is taking, and with it the American support both for that response, and for the status quo of the occupation, will only lead to more and deeper suffering for both the Israeli and the Palestinian people,” he continued.

Ok Mr. so righteous - what should Israel do?

besides "diplomacy" besides "negotiation" besides "appeasement"?

What do you not understand that we are dealing with a terrorist organization DEDICATED to killing Jews and wiping them out of Israel.
They spend all their lives working towards this end.

 :roll:


Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72241
    • View Profile
Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2686 on: October 19, 2023, 02:02:21 PM »
FWIW I now use the terms "Gazans" and "West Bankers" instead of "Palestinians".


Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72241
    • View Profile
Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2688 on: October 19, 2023, 02:41:16 PM »
To keep in mind is that Yemen has the potential to be a choke point for access to the Suez Canal.

Add in the Straits of Hormuz , , ,

ccp

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19754
    • View Profile
drones / IDF intelligence / Pegasus
« Reply #2689 on: October 19, 2023, 09:25:08 PM »
Some key excerpts from the article with link below:
 
"If Israel launches ground operations in Gaza, the world would likely witness the next chapter of drone warfare in urban environments. "

"But too much reliance on digital signals intelligence could also lead to lapses. Loewenstein argues that such over-reliance may have contributed to the massive intelligence failure that allowed the Hamas attack. "

"The NSO Group, founded by soldiers from Israel's elite 8200 cyber intelligence unit, has for years sold a spyware product called Pegasus to a variety of regimes"

"What I'm hearing is that Israel, like the US after 9/11, overly relied on digital surveillance and far less on the human intelligence side in the last 5-10 years, leaving open the possibility of a major security breach.”

"Will Israel be able to use its new capabilities to limit the effects on innocent Gazans in a ground offensive? Loewenstein expressed skepticism."

https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2023/10/next-drone-war-coming-gaza/391277/

DougMacG

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19441
    • View Profile
Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2690 on: October 20, 2023, 06:19:33 AM »
FWIW I now use the terms "Gazans" and "West Bankers" instead of "Palestinians".

Yes.  Much more precise.

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72241
    • View Profile
Turkey's proposal
« Reply #2691 on: October 20, 2023, 06:24:07 AM »
October 19, 2023
View On Website
Open as PDF

    
Daily Memo: Turkey's Proposal, Xi-Putin Meeting
Ankara proposed a formula for reaching a long-term solution to the Israeli-Palestinian dispute.
By: Geopolitical Futures
Turkey's plan. Turkey proposed setting up a guarantor system for Israel and Palestine if a deal on a two-state solution is reached. According to Turkish Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan, this would involve appointing multiple countries, including Turkey, as guarantors to ensure both parties comply with the agreement. He emphasized that the guarantors, especially for Palestine, should be from the Middle East region.

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72241
    • View Profile
Playing Win-Win with Zero Sum folks
« Reply #2692 on: October 20, 2023, 10:52:29 AM »
Second

Irina Goldanskaya
6d
  ·
Eyal Waldman, Israeli high-tech tycoon, founder and CEO of Mellanox Technologies, stunned the tech industry and the whole Arab world by creating R&D centers five years ago, first in the West Bank and then two years ago in the Gaza sector, hiring hundreds of Palestinian developers.
He said then: "Today we have 25 employees in Gaza. There are talented and smart people out there, economically it pays off. We have good staff, within one hour zone, with high motivation, availability and opportunities. And I think it's very important for the two nations to come together. People used to be afraid of each other and didn't talk. But the positive thing is created when people begin to work together and see how tensions decrease and cooperation work. This is good for all sides."
And on October 7, 2023, Hamas killed his daughter Danielle. It happened near Kibbutz Reim, less than a mile from where her father opened the most innovative factory in Gaza.

ccp

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19754
    • View Profile
Palestinian student at Harvard blames Biden
« Reply #2693 on: October 20, 2023, 11:15:33 AM »
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-fanned-the-flames-of-hate-in-gaza-now-thousands-of-palestinians-are-dead/ar-AA1izXGf?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=4d0d1090913b4c9da4ece7eae33a22fc&ei=16

what is wrong with these people:

"In this difficult moment with all of its bloodshed and pain, we can still find an opportunity to forge a path toward a better future. The only way forward is to broker a peace based on justice. The old U.S. gameplan is hollow and incapable of preventing tragic episodes like the one we find ourselves in now. Do not fail us again, President Biden. "

All we here is we need diplomacy and peace (justice  :roll:
All I see is decades of Hamas and Muslim hatred toward Jews, no recognizance of Israel, total commitment to killing them and proceeding to do so, no willingness for peace or agreeing to 2 states and yet the Arabs all blame the Jews, as do so many others.

What God awful BS.


Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72241
    • View Profile
Zeihan: This is not WW3
« Reply #2694 on: October 20, 2023, 02:01:48 PM »
Regarding the tunnel problem Israel is facing I would not be surprised if small drones were put to go use.

Zeihan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OagYlYna75Y
« Last Edit: October 20, 2023, 02:12:57 PM by Crafty_Dog »

Body-by-Guinness

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 3229
    • View Profile
Bedouin IDF Hero
« Reply #2695 on: October 20, 2023, 03:48:35 PM »

ccp

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19754
    • View Profile
Mark this day on your history calender!!!
« Reply #2696 on: October 21, 2023, 08:51:15 AM »
Saudi crown prince condemns Hamas!

While not a total home run - he also condemns Israel

this IS as far as I know from my armchair the first time a high Saudi official condemns Hamas

This IS a start and maybe some progress

Some Arabs calling for the 2 state solution I read now.
Now if we can only get rid of Hamas Hezbellah and the Iran threat.....


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/powerful-saudi-prince-breaks-ranks-to-condemn-hamas/ar-AA1iAh0e

ccp

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 19754
    • View Profile
vivek on the risks for Israel and US
« Reply #2697 on: October 21, 2023, 10:39:58 AM »
I do not agree since he calls for debate

but he makes good points

endless debates..... being called for ....

I feel we need action

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/vivek-ramaswamy-israeli-ground-invasion-of-gaza-could-be-a-disaster/vi-AA1iB7E2?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=80d8ec4fb576418591f52befec6f1c50&ei=7

agree with stopping Iran's nuclear threat but not sure how to do that without a military strike
which he does not address


Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72241
    • View Profile
Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2698 on: October 21, 2023, 02:00:43 PM »
"which he does not address"

Quelle surprise!

Body-by-Guinness

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 3229
    • View Profile
Site Documenting All Recent Hamas Atrocities
« Reply #2699 on: October 21, 2023, 02:22:35 PM »
Linked below. Be aware, many of the videos are quite heartbreaking:

https://sites.google.com/view/hamas-massacre-new/home