Author Topic: Ukraine  (Read 223422 times)

G M

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 26643
    • View Profile

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1301 on: May 05, 2023, 03:10:52 PM »
"He was a founder of the New Philosophers (Nouveaux Philosophes) school. This was a group of young intellectuals who were disenchanted with communist and socialist responses to the near-revolutionary upheavals in France of May 1968, and who developed an uncompromising moral critique of Marxist and socialist dogmas.[15] In 1977, the television show Apostrophes[16] featured Lévy together with André Glucksmann as a nouveau philosophe. In that year, he published Barbarism with a Human Face (La barbarie à visage humain, 1977), arguing that Marxism was inherently corrupt."

 , , ,

"The movie itself is, as stated in its official Cannes presentation:

"The third part of a trilogy, opus three of a documentary made and lived in real time, the missing piece of the puzzle of a lifetime, the desperate search for enlightened Islam. Where is that other Islam strong enough to defeat the Islam of the fundamentalists? Who embodies it? Who sustains it? Where are the men and women who in word and deed strive for that enlightened Islam, the Islam of law and human rights, an Islam that stands for women and their rights, that is faithful to the lofty thinking of Averroes, Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani, Ibn Tufail, and Rumi? ...""

Granted to vapidity of his anti-Trump comments, but OTOH he doesn't sound like a knee-jerk lefty to me.

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1302 on: May 06, 2023, 05:34:43 PM »
My Russian born Jewish friend responds to the Azov as Masada article with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy910FG46C4

Frankly I don't find some of the passages terribly persuasive.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2023, 05:43:12 PM by Crafty_Dog »

G M

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 26643
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1303 on: May 06, 2023, 05:44:51 PM »
My Russian born Jewish friend responds to the Azov as Masada article with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy910FG46C4

Weird how all that got memory-hole'd once it was decided that Ukraine was the good guys...


Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Zeihan
« Reply #1307 on: May 11, 2023, 03:37:06 PM »


Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
« Last Edit: May 16, 2023, 02:29:01 PM by Crafty_Dog »



Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1312 on: May 19, 2023, 07:15:55 PM »



Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1315 on: May 20, 2023, 06:55:29 AM »
OK.




Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine (useful citations)
« Reply #1318 on: May 22, 2023, 06:35:47 AM »
Not the strongest list of signers I've ever seen , , ,

but let's engage a bit, because there is merit, incomplete as it may be, in the piece:

A)

"Western policy has repeatedly put Zelenskyy in near-impossible positions, caught between the need to show signs of progress on the battlefield to justify further Western support and arms deliveries and, on the other hand, the shocking human cost of continued war represented by the fresh graveyards where tens of thousands of Ukrainians now lie buried."

Here's the way I remember it-- we were ready to do jack sh*t (e.g. Biden pulled our navy out of the Black Sea in the run up, offers to fly Z. out of the country in the early days, etc) all while talking sh*t (e.g. Sec Def Austin and VP Harris talking about Ukraine joining NATO in the run up to the Russian invasion) etc.  So yes, our feckless incoherence has put Z, dedicated to defending his country from Russian dismemberment, into reversing our bluster into substance with proof of Uke fighting will.  I would submit that the Ukes and Z. have met this burden. 

B)

Unaddressed by this piece are the consequences of what is advocated here-- telling the Russians that we have run out of the will to do "whatever it takes".  We are agreed that to do exactly what remains spectacularly incoherent and undefined, and often includes goals likely to provoke escalations far beyond what we currently have.   What is left of our credibility when it comes to defending Taiwan etc if we pull the rug out from under the Ukes now?


"https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/16116-document-05-memorandum-conversation-between"

Good citation here, the most specific I have seen.

Even more substantive is this:
https://www.armscontrol.org/act/1997-06/arms-control-today/opposition-nato-expansion

Many real serious names among the signatories e.g. Sen. Sam Nunn (no one's idea of a defense weenie!) and others.

That said, this "1999 – NATO admits Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic to NATO" strikes me as disingenuous in its failure to engage with the fact that the Soviet Empire invaded each of these countries quite brutally, in 1956, 1980, and 1968 respectively.

This too is disingenuous:  "2019 – U.S. unilaterally withdraws from Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty."  President Trump correctly did this because the Russians were cheating, and the Chinese were not part of the treaty, so the only country limited by the treaty was America.

Similarly, "2020 – U.S. unilaterally withdraws from Open Skies Treaty."  Again, this would be President Trump yes?  The same man we here praised for taking a hard line with talking softly with Putin and carrying a big stick, yes? 

I repeat my question: Having blundered our way into this stupid and unnecessary war (President Clinton and wife, President Obama and Sec. State Clinton, President Magoo and Grifter Son in Ukraine)

"What is left of our credibility when it comes to defending Taiwan etc if stirring "Whatever it takes, as long as it takes" we pull the rug out from under the Ukes now?

GM's piece has merit and brings useful historical perspective up from the Memory Hole, but it, and those of similar mind (e.g. our GM) do need to engage with this question.





G M

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 26643
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1319 on: May 22, 2023, 06:44:57 AM »
You seem to think we have any credibility left. We can't/won't defend our own border. We can't/won't defend our own cities from lawless chaos.

We won't even defend our children from deviant groomers.

WE
HAVE
ZERO
CREDIBILITY


Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1321 on: May 22, 2023, 07:08:55 AM »
A rhetorically potent response.

Herewith mine:

Often what you say communicates as "Giving up."  It may be as you predict with such certainty, but consider the possibility that you might be wrong--like the rest of us here, not for the first or last time!   

In which case your rhetorical flourish leads us to "A shot not fired is always a miss."

We can, and should, fight to articulate for what we fight and win the election despite what cheating seems likely to go on (and we have made some progress in some states since the last one) AND do what makes sense to each of us to prepare for what happens should our efforts fail.

I see supply chain failures and social disorder/collapse as distinct possibilities, and so my family and I prepare as best we can AND continue my efforts here on this forum and elsewhere.

But I drift from the subject of this thread.

So returning to the point at hand, what are the actual implications of what you say? 

Does pulling the rug from under the Ukes somehow increase the likelihood of defending our border?  Not that I can see. 

Does pulling the rug from under the Ukes somehow increase the likelihood of our defending our super chip supply chain from Taiwan?  Not that I can see.

Without answer to these points, your response is makes a valid point, but does not support your apparent recommended course of action.

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1322 on: May 22, 2023, 07:16:15 AM »
Hersh's track record is , , , mixed.

The piece is interesting, but it is not clear to me that in point of fact that it is true. 

Poland wants to cut a deal?  I read more and more broadly than most and I am unwilling at present to take Hersh's words at face value.

And if true, then so what?  This war is a murky mess.  OF COURSE there are cross currents!


G M

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 26643
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1323 on: May 22, 2023, 07:28:00 AM »
Russia winning is inevitable. All we are doing is wasting lives and money we don't have.

The world knows how weak and decadent the west has become.

We have already burned through weapons we can't replace for YEARS.

The longer this grinds on, the worse it is for US.

Beijing looks at this idiocy and laughs.

G M

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 26643
    • View Profile

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1325 on: May 22, 2023, 07:39:53 AM »
Some of the passages there have bite, but the personal attacks on Z for wanting to fight the invasion of his country reek of Russki propaganda.

G M

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 26643
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1326 on: May 22, 2023, 07:42:36 AM »
Some of the passages there have bite, but the personal attacks on Z for wanting to fight the invasion of his country reek of Russki propaganda.

Z is a corrupt piece of garbage. Stop buying into the CIA psyop.

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1327 on: May 22, 2023, 07:55:58 AM »
Consider working on your perception of the color grey.


G M

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 26643
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1328 on: May 22, 2023, 09:03:39 AM »
Consider working on your perception of the color grey.

Just because he was recruited by the CIA for this role doesn’t add any good to him and his crew of klepcrats.

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1329 on: May 22, 2023, 09:33:06 AM »
Umm , , , in that one here is saying that is does, the response is , , , non-responsive.

As a matter of logic, I would note that nor does it hurt. 

G M

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 26643
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1330 on: May 22, 2023, 09:36:47 AM »
Umm , , , in that one here is saying that is does, the response is , , , non-responsive.

As a matter of logic, I would note that nor does it hurt.

Our CIA has been a rogue organization much longer than we’d like to believe. They aren’t Tom Clancy-esque heroes.

Ukraine was and is a criminal enterprise pretending to be a country.


Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1331 on: May 22, 2023, 09:39:58 AM »
Sorry, but in that it fails to engage with the tremendous fighting spirit of the Uke people in all this IMHO that is simply glib. 

G M

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 26643
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1332 on: May 22, 2023, 09:46:55 AM »
Sorry, but in that it fails to engage with the tremendous fighting spirit of the Uke people in all this IMHO that is simply glib.

The Slavs tend to be tough as nails, that doesn’t make the Ukrainian mafiya state something else.

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1333 on: May 22, 2023, 01:49:24 PM »
I'm thinking a very reasonable inference of the Ukes fighting like they have is that they give a fk about having a country.    If you cannot acknowledge that this is a reasonable inference, I got nothing further on this point for you.




Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Zeihan on "Who Started it?"
« Reply #1334 on: May 22, 2023, 02:34:44 PM »

G M

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 26643
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1335 on: May 22, 2023, 03:03:20 PM »
I'm thinking a very reasonable inference of the Ukes fighting like they have is that they give a fk about having a country.    If you cannot acknowledge that this is a reasonable inference, I got nothing further on this point for you.

How is the Basque nation going? The Free Palestine movement?

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1336 on: May 22, 2023, 03:04:45 PM »
Non-responsive.

G M

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 26643
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1337 on: May 22, 2023, 04:11:17 PM »
Non-responsive.

Just because you fight for a nation doesn’t mean you are entitled to one.

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1338 on: May 22, 2023, 08:10:21 PM »
Still non-responsive to the question of sincerity of motivation.

G M

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 26643
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1339 on: May 23, 2023, 07:42:21 AM »
Still non-responsive to the question of sincerity of motivation.

The motivation of the cannon-fodder is irrelevant, unless you think the highly motivated German troops in WWII meant something important.

G M

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 26643
    • View Profile




Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Gatestone: Why the Ukes Fight
« Reply #1344 on: May 25, 2023, 06:14:43 AM »
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/19673/report-from-ukraine

Report from Ukraine: Why They Fight
by Richard Kemp
May 25, 2023 at 5:00 am

Send   
Print
I asked what they now needed most from our countries. Of course more guns, more ammo, more tanks, more rockets plus combat planes always featured. But another consistent answer was striking even if not surprising: please do not try to force our country to make peace with the invaders.

The government in Kyiv has so far documented 19,393 kidnapped children, and there are most likely many more that are as yet unidentified.

Like the torture and murder of civilians in Izium and elsewhere, and the summary execution of prisoners of war, these kidnappings are war crimes. It is for these abductions that the International Criminal Court in March issued arrest warrants against Vladimir Putin and his so-called Children's Rights Commissioner, Maria Lvova-Belova.

Putin's forces and civilian bureaucrats have seized children from orphanages and children's homes, removed them directly from their parents or taken them into "care" after killing their families. Some have been forcibly fostered or adopted in cities including Moscow, Saint Petersburg and Rostov. Names and dates of birth are sometimes changed to render them untraceable.

While torture and murder cannot be undone, Russia's child kidnapping can, and it is inexplicable that so far there has been no large scale international outrage.

[K]nowledge of these wicked depredations is why they fight; and why they and the fighting men on Ukraine's other battlefields remain determined to keep attacking, holding the invaders from their families' doors until they drive them back beyond their borders, no matter what the personal cost might be.


Russian forces and civilian bureaucrats have seized nearly 20,000 Ukrainian children from orphanages and children's homes, removed them directly from their parents or taken them into "care" after killing their families. Knowledge of these wicked depredations is why Ukrainians fight on the battlefield, determined to keep attacking, holding the invaders from their families' doors. Pictured: A Ukrainian soldier in Bakhmut, Ukraine, on April 23, 2023. (Photo by Anatolii Stepanov/AFP via Getty Images)
This week, near Bakhmut in eastern Ukraine, I spent time with commanders and soldiers who have been fighting the Russian invaders in the shattered city, sometimes for months on end. This has been one of the longest battles anywhere in the world since 1945 and by far the most brutal in this war, with Russians and Ukrainians often fighting at close quarters, artillery hammering the city into Stalingrad-like rubble and a level of slaughter unequalled anywhere else in Putin's vicious war.

Talking to these battle-worn men, their gratitude for the arms, ammunition and equipment supplied by the West was palpable and sometimes emotional. They credited us with keeping them alive and keeping them fighting. I asked what they now needed most from our countries. Of course more guns, more ammo, more tanks, more rockets plus combat planes always featured. But another consistent answer was striking even if not surprising: please do not try to force our country to make peace with the invaders.

This from men who have seen their brothers-in-arms cut down by bullets, bomb blasts and scything shell splinters; have battled to prevent the life ebb from their comrades' mangled bodies; have endured the mind-numbing percussion of unending artillery bombardments and have risked their very lives with every hour spent in the ruined city. At one point the deadly reality of life in Bakhmut was driven home by fleets of laden ambulances hurtling past us, heading away from the battle zone.

With their blunt rejection of peace negotiations, were these fighting men disproving the words of US General Douglas MacArthur in his famous Duty, Honor, Country speech at West Point: "The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war"?

I did not ask them that question because I immediately understood what lay behind their grim determination to keep fighting despite the horror of it all.

Earlier I had visited nearby Izium, where the Russian occupation is marked not only by rubbleised and bullet-pocked schools, hospitals, houses and apartment blocks but also by shallow graves in the middle of the woods, now empty and each marked by a rough-hewn timber cross.

After the Russians had been driven out by the Ukrainian army's counter offensive last September, 447 bodies were exhumed here, mostly civilian men, women and children, almost all showing signs of violent death, many executed, some mutilated and some with hands bound. The surrounding woodland is scarred with tank scrapes, large holes in the ground where Russian armour had been dug in to provide added protection against artillery and anti-tank fire and to aid concealment from ground and air. One of these scrapes had contained the corpses of 17 Ukrainian soldiers. Before they piled earth on top of them, the Russians had, for good measure, dumped an anti-tank mine on the bodies, intended to kill and maim those tasked with digging them out.

Some of the dead civilians had been brought to these woods from the town of Izium and from Balakliia, a few miles away. In both places I walked around police stations containing squalid cells and lightless basements where the Russians had jammed in their captives, men, women and children; and terrorised, tortured, sexually abused and murdered them.

I saw the same baleful sites at Bucha near Kyiv a few days later. Places like this are to be found in many towns and villages the Russians occupied. They are horribly reminiscent of Nazi torture and killing centres I've visited in Poland, France and on the Channel Island of Alderney. Like them, these sites deserve to be preserved, both as a reminder of the evil men do and as a memorial to the poor souls who suffered so terribly under the Russian jackboot.

From areas of the country that Putin's army occupied since the invasion last February, they have also abducted Ukrainian children, including babies, on an industrial scale. The government in Kyiv has so far documented 19,393 kidnapped children, and there are most likely many more that are as yet unidentified.

Some are still held in areas of Ukraine the Russian army continues to occupy, and others have been transported to Russian territory. Like the torture and murder of civilians in Izium and elsewhere, and the summary execution of prisoners of war, these kidnappings are war crimes. It is for these abductions that the International Criminal Court in March issued arrest warrants against Vladimir Putin and his so-called Children's Rights Commissioner, Maria Lvova-Belova.

Putin's forces and civilian bureaucrats have seized children from orphanages and children's homes, removed them directly from their parents or taken them into "care" after killing their families. Some have been forcibly fostered or adopted in cities including Moscow, Saint Petersburg and Rostov. Names and dates of birth are sometimes changed to render them untraceable. Those children who speak up for their native land, sing the national anthem or speak ill of Putin are "re-educated" by Russian authorities, a process that has included extended periods of detention and solitary confinement as well as bullying and savage beatings. Some children have been enlisted into a Russian "youth army" where they are trained and prepared to fight one day against their own people.

In Kyiv I met the red-eyed mothers of some of these children, every one of them going through a living hell that will never end until their sons and daughters are returned to them. The Ukrainian government and the NGO Save Ukraine, as well as individual parents that are able to, are making efforts to retrieve these children but so far only very small numbers have been brought home. While torture and murder cannot be undone, Russia's child kidnapping can, and it is inexplicable that so far there has been no large-scale international outrage.

The kidnapping of Ukrainian children has grotesque echoes of the Third Reich, which forcibly removed at least 20,000 Polish children from their families and transported them to Germany — the same number as the children that we know have been kidnapped by Putin so far. Many of them faced an almost identical fate as the abducted Ukrainian children today.

Returning to the defenders of Bakhmut, knowledge of these wicked depredations is why they fight; and why they and the fighting men on Ukraine's other battlefields remain determined to keep attacking, holding the invaders from their families' doors until they drive them back beyond their borders, no matter what the personal cost might be.

Colonel Richard Kemp is a former British Army Commander. He was also head of the international terrorism team in the U.K. Cabinet Office and is now a writer and speaker on international and military affairs. He is a Shillman Fellow at Gatestone Institute.

Follow Richard Kemp on Twitter



G M

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 26643
    • View Profile
Re: Gatestone: Why the Ukes Fight
« Reply #1346 on: May 25, 2023, 06:53:56 AM »
I also note the lack of outrage of what is happen to children at the former border with Mexico.


https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/19673/report-from-ukraine

Report from Ukraine: Why They Fight
by Richard Kemp
May 25, 2023 at 5:00 am

Send   
Print
I asked what they now needed most from our countries. Of course more guns, more ammo, more tanks, more rockets plus combat planes always featured. But another consistent answer was striking even if not surprising: please do not try to force our country to make peace with the invaders.

The government in Kyiv has so far documented 19,393 kidnapped children, and there are most likely many more that are as yet unidentified.

Like the torture and murder of civilians in Izium and elsewhere, and the summary execution of prisoners of war, these kidnappings are war crimes. It is for these abductions that the International Criminal Court in March issued arrest warrants against Vladimir Putin and his so-called Children's Rights Commissioner, Maria Lvova-Belova.

Putin's forces and civilian bureaucrats have seized children from orphanages and children's homes, removed them directly from their parents or taken them into "care" after killing their families. Some have been forcibly fostered or adopted in cities including Moscow, Saint Petersburg and Rostov. Names and dates of birth are sometimes changed to render them untraceable.

While torture and murder cannot be undone, Russia's child kidnapping can, and it is inexplicable that so far there has been no large scale international outrage.

[K]nowledge of these wicked depredations is why they fight; and why they and the fighting men on Ukraine's other battlefields remain determined to keep attacking, holding the invaders from their families' doors until they drive them back beyond their borders, no matter what the personal cost might be.


Russian forces and civilian bureaucrats have seized nearly 20,000 Ukrainian children from orphanages and children's homes, removed them directly from their parents or taken them into "care" after killing their families. Knowledge of these wicked depredations is why Ukrainians fight on the battlefield, determined to keep attacking, holding the invaders from their families' doors. Pictured: A Ukrainian soldier in Bakhmut, Ukraine, on April 23, 2023. (Photo by Anatolii Stepanov/AFP via Getty Images)
This week, near Bakhmut in eastern Ukraine, I spent time with commanders and soldiers who have been fighting the Russian invaders in the shattered city, sometimes for months on end. This has been one of the longest battles anywhere in the world since 1945 and by far the most brutal in this war, with Russians and Ukrainians often fighting at close quarters, artillery hammering the city into Stalingrad-like rubble and a level of slaughter unequalled anywhere else in Putin's vicious war.

Talking to these battle-worn men, their gratitude for the arms, ammunition and equipment supplied by the West was palpable and sometimes emotional. They credited us with keeping them alive and keeping them fighting. I asked what they now needed most from our countries. Of course more guns, more ammo, more tanks, more rockets plus combat planes always featured. But another consistent answer was striking even if not surprising: please do not try to force our country to make peace with the invaders.

This from men who have seen their brothers-in-arms cut down by bullets, bomb blasts and scything shell splinters; have battled to prevent the life ebb from their comrades' mangled bodies; have endured the mind-numbing percussion of unending artillery bombardments and have risked their very lives with every hour spent in the ruined city. At one point the deadly reality of life in Bakhmut was driven home by fleets of laden ambulances hurtling past us, heading away from the battle zone.

With their blunt rejection of peace negotiations, were these fighting men disproving the words of US General Douglas MacArthur in his famous Duty, Honor, Country speech at West Point: "The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war"?

I did not ask them that question because I immediately understood what lay behind their grim determination to keep fighting despite the horror of it all.

Earlier I had visited nearby Izium, where the Russian occupation is marked not only by rubbleised and bullet-pocked schools, hospitals, houses and apartment blocks but also by shallow graves in the middle of the woods, now empty and each marked by a rough-hewn timber cross.

After the Russians had been driven out by the Ukrainian army's counter offensive last September, 447 bodies were exhumed here, mostly civilian men, women and children, almost all showing signs of violent death, many executed, some mutilated and some with hands bound. The surrounding woodland is scarred with tank scrapes, large holes in the ground where Russian armour had been dug in to provide added protection against artillery and anti-tank fire and to aid concealment from ground and air. One of these scrapes had contained the corpses of 17 Ukrainian soldiers. Before they piled earth on top of them, the Russians had, for good measure, dumped an anti-tank mine on the bodies, intended to kill and maim those tasked with digging them out.

Some of the dead civilians had been brought to these woods from the town of Izium and from Balakliia, a few miles away. In both places I walked around police stations containing squalid cells and lightless basements where the Russians had jammed in their captives, men, women and children; and terrorised, tortured, sexually abused and murdered them.

I saw the same baleful sites at Bucha near Kyiv a few days later. Places like this are to be found in many towns and villages the Russians occupied. They are horribly reminiscent of Nazi torture and killing centres I've visited in Poland, France and on the Channel Island of Alderney. Like them, these sites deserve to be preserved, both as a reminder of the evil men do and as a memorial to the poor souls who suffered so terribly under the Russian jackboot.

From areas of the country that Putin's army occupied since the invasion last February, they have also abducted Ukrainian children, including babies, on an industrial scale. The government in Kyiv has so far documented 19,393 kidnapped children, and there are most likely many more that are as yet unidentified.

Some are still held in areas of Ukraine the Russian army continues to occupy, and others have been transported to Russian territory. Like the torture and murder of civilians in Izium and elsewhere, and the summary execution of prisoners of war, these kidnappings are war crimes. It is for these abductions that the International Criminal Court in March issued arrest warrants against Vladimir Putin and his so-called Children's Rights Commissioner, Maria Lvova-Belova.

Putin's forces and civilian bureaucrats have seized children from orphanages and children's homes, removed them directly from their parents or taken them into "care" after killing their families. Some have been forcibly fostered or adopted in cities including Moscow, Saint Petersburg and Rostov. Names and dates of birth are sometimes changed to render them untraceable. Those children who speak up for their native land, sing the national anthem or speak ill of Putin are "re-educated" by Russian authorities, a process that has included extended periods of detention and solitary confinement as well as bullying and savage beatings. Some children have been enlisted into a Russian "youth army" where they are trained and prepared to fight one day against their own people.

In Kyiv I met the red-eyed mothers of some of these children, every one of them going through a living hell that will never end until their sons and daughters are returned to them. The Ukrainian government and the NGO Save Ukraine, as well as individual parents that are able to, are making efforts to retrieve these children but so far only very small numbers have been brought home. While torture and murder cannot be undone, Russia's child kidnapping can, and it is inexplicable that so far there has been no large-scale international outrage.

The kidnapping of Ukrainian children has grotesque echoes of the Third Reich, which forcibly removed at least 20,000 Polish children from their families and transported them to Germany — the same number as the children that we know have been kidnapped by Putin so far. Many of them faced an almost identical fate as the abducted Ukrainian children today.

Returning to the defenders of Bakhmut, knowledge of these wicked depredations is why they fight; and why they and the fighting men on Ukraine's other battlefields remain determined to keep attacking, holding the invaders from their families' doors until they drive them back beyond their borders, no matter what the personal cost might be.

Colonel Richard Kemp is a former British Army Commander. He was also head of the international terrorism team in the U.K. Cabinet Office and is now a writer and speaker on international and military affairs. He is a Shillman Fellow at Gatestone Institute.

Follow Richard Kemp on Twitter

Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1347 on: May 25, 2023, 09:07:02 AM »
True as that non-sequitur may be, it has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of this article-- which IS relevant to arguments you have made about Uke motivations. 


« Last Edit: May 25, 2023, 12:35:15 PM by Crafty_Dog »

G M

  • Power User
  • ***
  • Posts: 26643
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1348 on: May 25, 2023, 09:13:54 AM »
Try as that non-sequitur may be, it has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of this article-- which IS relevant to arguments you have made about Uke motivations.

Just pointing how selective selective outrage can be.


Crafty_Dog

  • Administrator
  • Power User
  • *****
  • Posts: 72252
    • View Profile
Re: Ukraine
« Reply #1349 on: May 25, 2023, 12:36:38 PM »
A point well grasped by all here, but no particular reason I can see for this particular article to need to note that.