Author Topic: Tax Policy  (Read 389227 times)

DougMacG

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Re: Tax Policy, Univ of Chicago Analysis of the GOP tax Plan
« Reply #650 on: March 27, 2017, 07:52:36 AM »
http://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2450&context=law_and_economics

Conclusions
Implementing a tax system base
d on the Brady plan will present a substantial
challenge. Many implementation problems a
rise because nothing like this has
ever been tried by a developed country, not to speak of in a country the size of the
United States. It is likely that over time, solu
tions to most issues will be found.
Given the substantial number of issues, however, it is naïve to think that the plan
can be passed into law quickly.
Some issues, such as correcting the treatment of land and inventory are
straightforward. Others
, such a
s the elimination of the regimes for pass
-through
taxation and rules for major corporate transactions, are conceptually
straightforward but will be involve more substantial changes to current law. And
others will be difficult. Among the most important and difficult issues are the
following:

Deferral and the collection of the capital income tax on individuals
.

The legality of border adjustments
 and possible design changes to
improve the odds of compliance with the GATT
.

The treatment of financial institutions
.

The treatment of businesses that consistently generate tax losses while
making economic profits.

Distinguishing between real and financial flows
, and making a consistent
choice to have an R
-based system (or an R+F system).

Transition
.
These i
ssues do not have straightforward solutions and will need careful analysis
as the legislative process moves forward.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 09:59:52 AM by Crafty_Dog »

DougMacG

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Carbon Tax into Dividends
« Reply #651 on: March 27, 2017, 08:02:14 AM »
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 10:02:03 AM by Crafty_Dog »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Tax Policy
« Reply #652 on: March 27, 2017, 10:02:33 AM »
What don't you like?


DougMacG

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Re: Tax Policy, Opposing the Carbon Tax
« Reply #653 on: March 27, 2017, 03:21:56 PM »
Tax carbon ($40?) per ton.  Pay back to all, $500 per capita per year at the start.

What don't you like?

1.  I don't trust it would be implemented as proposed.  For sure we will pay in more; I don't believe for a minute we would see most or all of it back.

2. If they instead promised to use the revenues to reduce the burden of other taxes, income taxes for example, I don't believe those rates will go down or stay down either.  New taxes lead to new spending.

3. The purpose is to reduce emissions.  If it succeeds, it is a declining and unreliable source of revenue.  Yet the proposal says it will increase over time.

4. I'm not persuaded that carbon dioxide is a pollutant, or that our federal government can accurately or honestly measure and assess the 'cost'.  Carbon dioxide is a trace element in the atmosphere, less than one part per thousand, and yet is an essential building block of life.  I would be far more concerned if CO2 levels were declining.

5) The revenue stream creates its own moral hazard.  People will want more and more.  The government will want more and more, from what it wants less of.

6) In compromise, I propose we tax only the carbon dioxide emitted into the atmosphere that did not originate in the atmosphere.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 08:39:14 PM by DougMacG »

G M

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Re: Tax Policy, Opposing the Carbon Tax
« Reply #654 on: March 27, 2017, 03:35:31 PM »
Taxes are like government programs. Once in place, they only grow.

Tax carbon ($40?) per ton.  Pay back to all, $500 per capita per year at the start.

What don't you like?

1.  I don't trust it would be implemented as proposed.  For sure we will pay in more; I don't believe for a minute we would see most or all of it back.

2. If they instead promised to use the revenues to reduce the burden of other taxes, income taxes for example, I don't believe those rates will go down or stay down either.  New taxes lead to new spending.

3. The purpose is to reduce emissions.  If it succeeds, it is a declining and unreliable source of revenue.  Yet the proposal says it will increase over time.

4. I'm not persuaded that carbon dioxide is a pollutant, or that our federal government can accurately or honestly measure and assess the 'cost'.  Carbon dioxide is a trace element in the atmosphere, lees than one part per thousand, and yet is an essential building block of life.  I would be far more concerned if CO2 levels were declining.

5) The revenue stream creates its own moral hazard.  People will want more and more.  The government will want more and more, from what it wants less of.

6) In compromise, I propose we tax only the carbon dioxide emitted into the atmosphere that did not originate in the atmosphere.

DDF

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Re: Tax Policy
« Reply #655 on: March 27, 2017, 07:30:05 PM »
I'm with GM and Doug on this.

In fact... to me (speaking for myself), I'm fine if there are absolutely no taxes. It's been done before.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Tax Policy
« Reply #656 on: March 27, 2017, 09:26:44 PM »
As you guys probably remember, my proposal was for this sort of tax REPLACING other taxes; that said I find the politics of this proposal intriguing , , ,

DougMacG

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Re: Tax Policy
« Reply #657 on: March 28, 2017, 06:45:50 AM »
As you guys probably remember, my proposal was for this sort of tax REPLACING other taxes; that said I find the politics of this proposal intriguing , , ,

It is intriguing in the theoretical sense, to tax pollution for its social cost instead of regulating it.  A number of things don't line up on that for this IMHO.  It's not pollution.  We don't know the cost.  If we tax it enough to make it go away, which is the goal, it doesn't make a solid revenue source to pay for defense, healthcare etc. to replace other taxes.  At some price, we could switch to nuclear grid power for example, which is carbon free, and the budget crashes.

Moving from the theoretical to the political, it doesn't replace the federal income tax unless we repeal the 16th amendment.    To repeal the 16th and move to any or every kind of consumption tax as this would be passed along to the consumer, we would need 288 votes in the House, 67 votes in the Senate and ratification in 38 states.

As GM points out, other taxes won't go away just because we have more sources of revenue.   The politics for taxing income (punitively) remains the same, no matter how much other money we can find.

MHO.

DDF

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Re: Tax Policy
« Reply #658 on: March 28, 2017, 10:05:33 AM »
As you guys probably remember, my proposal was for this sort of tax REPLACING other taxes; that said I find the politics of this proposal intriguing , , ,

If it helps in a race to zero, I'm all for it.

Unfortunately, the point that had been brought here by others, is that the government has a terrible track record on relinquishing power or money.

Doug makes a great point on the budget. I have to think that perhaps we're spending far too much anyways.

I can say, that living here, going from 100K a year to 10,000 pesos a month, I live a higher quality of life than I did there in many ways. As soon as I finish law school, some lawyers in el DF, clear a million USD a year.

The problem isn't just the budget,,, it's the price of supporting people who (you rightly elude to on another thread), will not be productive because they make more not to be in terms of welfare.

We have to find a way to quit supporting people who simply will not support themselves. It isn't heartless, it's smart.

When that happens, a high quality of life will be less expensive, and there will be fewer people breeding for cash, because they won't be being rewarded for it.

Bring back the family model, stop encouraging divorce... women receive 90% of the welfare. That has to stop. It's destroying everything and everyone... even if it's through destroying society itself.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 10:10:40 AM by DDF »

DougMacG

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Re: Tax Policy, Tax Reform 2017, Consequences
« Reply #659 on: March 28, 2017, 12:22:04 PM »
The failure of Obamacare repeal makes tax reform harder.  24 Obamacare taxes were not repealed and the coalition is badly damaged.  The bill being floated around is flawed in many ways and no one has an answer that would both succeed if passed and pass.

The blue state penalty (lose deductibility for state and local taxes, property taxes) won't pass.  The rates don't drop that far.  The 'border tax' isn't going to be understood even if it was a good idea.  The CBO won't score it accurately or dynamically.  The talking points against it will be generated by Congress's own budget office.  Guess what, tax rate cuts will benefit the people first and most who pay the highest rates.  Get over it, but they won't.  It will feed the same narrative as kicking low income people off of healthcare, with no conservative messaging to answer it.

Treasury Secretary Mnuchin wants this done by August recess.  

Even if it eventually is watered down enough to pass, it will be too late in the year to make it retroactive to the first.  They can't measure what part of your income is before and after passage so the effective date has to be delayed to 2018, locking is a slowdown for this year - if it hasn't started already.

Investors and markets hate uncertainty, and uncertainty is now the law of the land.  The effect of both delayed tax rate cuts and uncertainty is to freeze decision making and delay and destroy valuable economic activity.

What will be the consequences of that?  Sustained (Obama plowhorse) growth?  Doubtful.  Growth you might expect from tax reform without tax reform?  Not a chance.  A stall or pause that feeds on itself and leads to a correction, recession or worse?  All possible.  

What happens if/when it all fails, negotiations break down on both healthcare and tax reform?  Add to that other potential problems brewing here and around the world?  I don't want to know.

Some of us wrote here in the 2012 election cycle that that was the last chance to get it right, and we didn't.  I didn't think we were writing hyperbole nor overstating the dangers.  What if we were right?

Meanwhile Washington marches on with a Crisis? What Crisis? attitude.  Ho hum, maybe we should try some tax reform over the summer, start with a completely unpassable, incomprehensible bill with no plan to sell it after screwing up healthcare and letting popularity levels of the President and Congress to drop to the thirties and the teens respectively.  

What could possibly go wrong?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 12:34:32 PM by DougMacG »

ccp

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Robert Reich is for it
« Reply #660 on: March 28, 2017, 02:39:22 PM »
I posted this on the energy politics thread on Feb 13.  CD thought he could stomach it if other taxes were reduced to counter act it.  (not unreasonable IF libs were EVER reasonable - they never are or at least in the last 25 yrs)

That said isn't the fact that Robert Reich thinks the Baker et al plan is a good idea ALONE enough reason to be AGAINST it?

http://www.newsweek.com/robert-reich-carbon-tax-would-give-each-family-2000-year-555065

Does anyone think a chump change bribe to people to get them to buy into what would be one of the largest tax hikes in human kind is good idea except for big Government  libs?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 02:43:36 PM by ccp »

ccp

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Economic growth cures all of mankind's ills man
« Reply #661 on: April 02, 2017, 04:31:54 PM »
Yeah he was saying this on his show.  Of course we all know cutting business taxes will allow employers to increase wages:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/446346/gop-congress-must-do-business-tax-cuts-now

ccp

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Repubs ok with soda tax in WV
« Reply #662 on: April 04, 2017, 06:08:01 AM »
We know we are in trouble when even the Republican pols are for taxes.  Rush had great discussion of why it is so hard to do anything about taxes.  It is because they are the main source of politicians power.  They ain't about to give it up ever.  Tax break will nearly always be combined with another way to tax elsewhere:

https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2017/04/big-nanny-republicans-west-virginia-proposes-gop-backed-soda-tax

DDF

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Re: Repubs ok with soda tax in WV
« Reply #663 on: April 04, 2017, 06:44:08 AM »
We know we are in trouble when even the Republican pols are for taxes.  Rush had great discussion of why it is so hard to do anything about taxes.  It is because they are the main source of politicians power.  They ain't about to give it up ever.  Tax break will nearly always be combined with another way to tax elsewhere:

https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2017/04/big-nanny-republicans-west-virginia-proposes-gop-backed-soda-tax

AMEN.

DougMacG

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Re: Tax Policy
« Reply #664 on: April 04, 2017, 07:32:17 AM »
'Taxes are the main source of politicians power'

That's right.  Even the right talks about "Revenue Neutral" tax cutting.  But what is revenue neutral about taxation?  It is the shifting of trillions of dollars a year of revenues to people who didn't earn it.  Some of it is spent for good public uses like a river crossing or national defense and most of it is not.

Trump put out a budget that had serious cuts in it.  Why not couple that with a tax rate cut that would grow the economy and sell it as a package?

The deficit is also a source of their power.  Because of the deficit and the addiction to spending, tax revenues can never be cut or cut much.

In politics, they talk about a wedge issue where as you push on it, it opens wider.  In taxes, maybe they should reduce all rates by 1% or even 0.1%, just to establish the consensus that we know they are too high and we know how to lower them.

And cut all spending too by at least as much!


DougMacG

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Re: probably no real tax cuts for the people who need it most
« Reply #666 on: April 06, 2017, 07:44:48 AM »
https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2017/04/yes-change-may-be-coming-to-americas-tax-code-and-its-going-too-cost-you-more

That's right.  And why are we constantly trying to divide conservatives?

From the article:
"A carbon tax, a VAT, a BAT, and raising taxes on investors are all bad ideas. It would be one thing if Washington were planning to abolish the income tax or the corporate tax altogether. But to add another revenue stream in return for a promise of some other tax cuts, which invariably make the code even more progressive … conservatives should not waste their time on this issue."
--------------------------------------------------------------------

" it doesn't replace the federal income tax unless we repeal the 16th amendment"
http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=1791.msg102751#msg102751

"Taxes are like government programs. Once in place, they only grow."  (G M)
http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=1791.msg102735#msg102735
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Republicans (conservatives?) just won the House, Senate and White House.  They should have cut tax rates, spending and the deficit on the first day, retroactive to the first of the year - by whatever amount that could be agreed on.

All these new ideas are so clever and complicated that they will never be understood and passed in time to do any good.  By the time they could get passed, Democrats will just raise them back up anyway.

R's act like Democrats, thinking this is some kind of permanent political majority - after winning by -2.5 million votes.

How about governing with some sense of urgency, like we believe what we said - that the left's policies, taxes and programs are destroying the country.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 07:47:09 AM by DougMacG »

ccp

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Re: Tax Policy
« Reply #667 on: April 06, 2017, 08:18:46 AM »
Doug writes:

"Republicans (conservatives?) just won the House, Senate and White House.  They should have cut tax rates, spending and the deficit on the first day, retroactive to the first of the year - by whatever amount that could be agreed on.

All these new ideas are so clever and complicated that they will never be understood and passed in time to do any good.  By the time they could get passed, Democrats will just raise them back up anyway.

R's act like Democrats, thinking this is some kind of permanent political majority - after winning by -2.5 million votes.

How about governing with some sense of urgency, like we believe what we said - that the left's policies, taxes and programs are destroying the country."

Yup.  They refuse to give up their power which is to spend our money and also afraid of being labelled the usual Democrat mantra 'tax cutters for the rich"
(even though 47 % pay NO federal income tax so who the hell are they to complain? and the top 20% pay the majority of all taxes)

The only 'valid' reason for *caution* is the Deficit but we know that is not the main reason they will not cut taxes.

Whatever we do get it will be watered down ,  not for those who really need it, those who pay nothing continue to do so, and in the end it will likely be shell game.
 :cry:
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 08:23:13 AM by ccp »

Crafty_Dog

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WSJ on Border Adjustment Tax
« Reply #668 on: April 16, 2017, 06:51:42 PM »
The Border-Adjustment Sleight of Hand
The double levy on U.S. companies’ overseas profits is the actual ‘Made in America tax.’
Photo: Phil Foster
By Veronique de Rugy and
Daniel J. Mitchell
April 16, 2017 2:10 p.m. ET
27 COMMENTS

With Republicans in control of Capitol Hill and the White House, this should be an opportune time for major tax cuts to boost American growth and competitiveness. But much of the reform energy is being dissipated in a counterproductive fight over the “border adjustment” tax proposed by House Republicans.

The plan calls for dropping the top corporate tax rate to 20% from 35%, while exempting exports and taxing imports. House Republicans have latched onto the border-adjustment tax for a very practical and understandable reason. It supposedly would generate more than $1 trillion of tax revenue over 10 years. That money could finance other parts of their agenda to generate growth, such as replacing today’s onerous depreciation rules with immediate expensing.

Although their intentions are reasonable, this strategy is questionable. Start with the political blunder: Republican tax plans normally receive overwhelming support from the business community. But the border-adjustment tax has created deep divisions. Proponents claim border adjustability is not protectionist because it would automatically push up the value of the dollar, neutralizing the effect on trade. Importers don’t have much faith in this theory and oppose the GOP plan.

Their concerns are legitimate. No country has ever imposed a border-adjusted corporate-income tax, so this is uncharted territory. But many countries have value-added taxes, or VATs, that are border-adjustable, and their experience might serve as a reasonable proxy. A review of the empirical literature shows that currencies adjust when a VAT is applied, but they do so neither entirely nor quickly. Factors such as poor design or improper administration can get in the way.

If the currency adjustment were perfect, there should be no effect on trade volume. But research has shown that VATs are associated with both lower exports and imports. A 2005 academic study examined 136 nations and concluded: “Countries using VATs have one-third fewer exports than do countries not using VATs, and 10 percent greater VAT revenue is associated with two percent fewer exports.”

Proponents of the border-adjustment tax also are using a dodgy sales pitch, saying that their plan will get rid of a “Made in America Tax.” The claim is that VATs give foreign companies an advantage. Say a German company exports a product to the U.S. It doesn’t pay the American corporate income tax, and it receives a rebate on its German VAT payments. But an American company exporting to Germany has to pay both—it’s subject to the U.S. corporate income tax and then pays the German VAT on the product when it is sold.

Sounds horribly unfair, right? Don’t be fooled. Like magicians, those making this argument are distracting the unwary, hoping that nobody will notice the trick.

Here’s the real story: What matters from a competitive perspective is whether the playing field is level—and it is. When the German company sells to customers in the U.S., it is subject to the German corporate income tax. The competing American firm selling domestically pays the U.S. corporate income tax. Neither is hit with a VAT. In other words, a level playing field.

What if an American company sells to a customer in Germany? The U.S. government imposes the corporate income tax and the German government imposes a VAT. But guess what? The German competitor selling domestically is hit by the German corporate income tax and the German VAT. That’s another level playing field. This explains why economists, on the right and left, repeatedly have debunked the idea that countries use VATs to boost their exports.

Companies can be disadvantaged, though, if their country’s tax regime is onerous. One big plus for Americans is that Washington does not impose a VAT, which would enable government to grow. This is a major reason that the U.S. economy is more vibrant than Europe’s. In Germany, the VAT raises so much tax revenue that the government consumes 44% of gross domestic product—compared with 38% in America.

On the other hand, America’s top corporate income tax of 35% is the highest in the developed world. If state corporate income taxes are added, the figure hits nearly 40%, according to the Congressional Budget Office. That compares very unfavorably with other nations. Europe’s average top corporate rate is less than 19%, and the global average is less than 23%, according to the Tax Foundation. The damage is compounded because the U.S. has a “world-wide” tax system, putting an extra levy on income that American companies earn overseas. That’s the real “Made in America Tax,” and it’s our own fault.

The solution is to reduce the corporate rate and adopt a territorial tax system, taxing only profits earned at home, as almost all other Western countries do. The good news is that the House plan does both these things. The bad news is that the proposal is weighed down by the border-adjustment tax. Republicans should drop this controversial provision and focus on the policies that will boost growth.

To get the maximum bang for the buck, the final package should include restraints on spending—which doesn’t even mean an absolute budget cut. If Congress simply limits the growth of outlays to about 2% a year, that would create enough fiscal space to balance the budget over 10 years and adopt a $3 trillion tax cut. If Republicans want a win-win, dropping the border-adjustment tax is the way to get one.

Ms. de Rugy is a senior fellow at George Mason University’s Mercatus Center. Mr. Mitchell is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute.

DougMacG

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Re: Tax Policy, how best to tax business
« Reply #669 on: April 25, 2017, 07:07:35 AM »

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/21/upshot/tax-code-business.html
How Best to Tax Business
APRIL 21, 2017
Economic View
By N. GREGORY MANKIW
The details of the tax code may not make your heart sing, but they are enormously important and, at long last, they may be changing. In fact, the next 12 months are shaping up to be a critically important time.

Despite an uneven start, tax reform is on the agenda in Congress. And the ideas being considered, especially regarding business taxation, are not mere tweaks to our ossified system. They would profoundly alter how the government raises money and upend the incentives for private decision makers. This is fascinating to tax policy nerds like me. But it is important for everyone to understand.

The motivating force behind business tax reform is that the statutory corporate tax rate in the United States is one of the highest in the world. The high rate encourages all kinds of perverse behavior, such as leaving money parked in overseas subsidiaries and inverting corporate structures to take advantage of lower rates abroad.

The current corporate tax finds no fan in Kevin A. Hassett, the economist recently nominated by President Trump to lead the Council of Economic Advisers. Some of Mr. Hassett’s research suggests that our high corporate taxes may be so distortional that a cut in the rate might increase tax revenue.


In another paper, Mr. Hassett finds that corporate taxes depress wages for manufacturing workers. In a world where capital is mobile and labor is not, capital escapes from high-tax nations, leaving workers behind to bear the burden of lower productivity and reduced incomes.

The debate in Congress, however, has gone beyond a simple discussion of tax rates. The Better Way plan, championed by House Speaker Paul D. Ryan and Representative Kevin Brady, the Republican chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, promises fundamental changes in the nature of business taxation, most of which would, in my view, be steps in the right direction. There are four key issues.

WORLDWIDE VS. TERRITORIAL Most nations aim to impose taxes on economic activity that takes place within their borders. Such a system is called territorial. By contrast, the United States has a worldwide corporate tax. If a company based in the United States produces a product abroad and then sells it abroad, our Treasury takes a cut of the profits when they are brought back home.

The House tax bill would move our system toward international norms. American companies would be able to compete abroad on a level playing field with companies based in other nations. The tax incentive for corporate inversions would be eliminated.

INCOME VS. CONSUMPTION Many economists have argued that taxes should be levied based on consumption rather than income. Consumption taxes would do less to discourage saving and investment and would thus be more favorable to economic growth. In addition, consumption taxes are arguably fairer: They tax the standard of living people enjoy rather than the value of what they produce.

The House plan moves toward a consumption tax by allowing businesses to deduct their investment spending immediately, rather than depreciating it slowly over time. By exempting the income that businesses reinvest, the government would essentially be taxing consumed profits.


ORIGIN-BASED VS. DESTINATION-BASED TAXATION The corporate tax system is now origin-based. It levies taxes on the profit from goods produced in the United States, regardless of where they end up. An alternative, proposed in the House bill, would be to tax all goods consumed in the United States, regardless of where they are made. This destination-based approach would tax imports and exempt exports, which is sometimes called a border adjustment. In this way, the business tax would resemble many of the value-added taxes used in Europe.

Some advocates have argued that the switch to destination-based taxes would make American goods more competitive and reduce our trade deficits. Some critics have suggested that it would unduly hurt firms that rely on imports and their customers. Both arguments are probably wrong.

To be sure, the immediate impact of the change would be to discourage imports and encourage exports. But that in turn would mean Americans would supply fewer dollars in foreign-exchange markets, and foreigners would demand more dollars. As a result, the dollar would appreciate, making foreign goods cheaper for Americans, and American goods more expensive for foreigners. The movement in the exchange rate would offset the initial impact on imports and exports.

The main advantage of destination-based taxation is that it is easier to determine where a good is consumed than where it is produced. In a world where multinationals produce goods using parts from around the world, origin-based taxes invite firms to game the system with transfer pricing schemes. Destination-based taxation is less easily gamed.

DEBT VS. EQUITY Now, firms can deduct interest payments to bondholders, but they cannot deduct dividend payments to equity holders. This treatment encourages firms to rely on debt rather than equity, making them more financially fragile than they would otherwise be.

The House plan fixes this asymmetric treatment of debt and equity by no longer allowing firms to deduct interest payments. A business’s taxes would be based on its cash flow: revenue minus wage payments and investment spending. How this cash flow is then paid out to equity and debt holders would be irrelevant.


While I like the policy choices proposed by the House bill, not all economists agree. Some view the bill as too radical, risking too many unintended consequences. Others worry that transitioning from the old system to a new one is not worth the cost, even if the new one is better.

Without a doubt, the coming debate will involve immense politicking. Any large tax change creates winners and losers, and the losers are sure to make their voices heard. But what matters most is whether the changes are better for the United States over all, not for special-interest groups. The more voters understand, the better off we all will be.

N. Gregory Mankiw is a professor of economics at Harvard.

DougMacG

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2017 Tax Reform for Economic Growth and American Jobs Trump Tax Plan 1.0
« Reply #670 on: April 27, 2017, 08:00:12 AM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/us/politics/trump-tax-cut-plan.html
"Significantly Aiding Wealthy"
[Can't seem to get coverage of this without liberal spin.  Good example of why they say you don't have to turn to the opinion page to get the NYT opinion - they conveniently put it on the front page in every story.]

Have we found some way of cutting the tax burden on the half of the country that doesn't pay a federal income tax?  Have we found some way of improving the demand for and value of labor without easing the burden of businesses and employers?

As usual, I don't understand the strategy.  Cut corporate rates from 35% federal to 15%.  Great, except it won't happen. 

Also, I can barely find it - even searching WhiteHouse.gov.  Here is a Jpeg:


Cutting the top rate from 39.6 back to 35% (plus up to 10% state tax) is a giveaway to the rich?

Anyway, the current one page document merely brings the issue forward and is starting point for negotiations.

"Throughout the month of May the Trump Administration will be holding listening sessions with stakeholders..."

At the rate this is going, I don't see how it ever gets done.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Tax Policy
« Reply #671 on: April 27, 2017, 10:23:39 PM »
"Don't tax you. Don't tax me.  Tax that fellow behind the tree." 

I forget who said this decades ago, but he was the head of the Ways and Means Committee or something like that.  Dirk Everetson (sp?)?

FWIW gents, do you really think a major overhaul of the tax code is not going to be a big rip roaring fight taking time?

 

DougMacG

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ccp

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Re: Tax Policy
« Reply #673 on: April 28, 2017, 04:42:11 AM »
"Don't tax you. Don't tax me.  Tax that fellow behind the tree." 

The Lefts modern version is

"tax the rich"

My version is

"they should tax Democrats and all liberals only"


DougMacG

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Re: Tax Policy, Blue State Penalty, Doug's compromise
« Reply #674 on: April 28, 2017, 07:03:23 AM »
"they should tax Democrats and all liberals only"

ccp:  You aren't going to like the 'blue state penalty'.  It doesn't follow your motto above. 
http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=1791.msg101397#msg101397

Of the big 3 deductions, mortgage interest, charitable giving and state/local taxes, only the first two survived the first draft.

The problem with this has to do with tyranny of the majority and consent of the governed.  The penalty doubly applies to people who live in the blue states but oppose the big government, blue state model.

Take my state for example, please, take it.  Hillary won MN by only 1.5%, down 10 points from Obama's 11.5% win in 2008.  Meanwhile, Republicans won the State House and Senate, while a lame duck sits in the governor's mansion with pen and phone - no new tax cuts.

In one sense, I agree with the proposal.  High income tax states should not get a break on federal taxes just because they tax themselves to death at the state level.  We still need a military, and to fund research on spotted frogs, or whatever the feds do with the $4 trillion we give them.

On the other hand, property taxes can be a very unfair form of taxation.  A homestead property doesn't have a stream of income or revenue to tax or pay a tax from.  The homeowner does, but that is already double taxed progressively on the income side.

Imagine a retired person or couple on a fixed income.  Property taxes go up and up over time; income does not.  The longer you live the more you are unable to live in the house you bought and paid for over your adult lifetimes.  We encourage home ownership for a reason, then we force people out with the other arm of the same big government - right at the point of their life where it is hardest to move.  Why would we value borrowing to buy a house over a person's 'contributions to their local schools and communities.  It makes no sense.

Therefore, Doug's compromise.  Remove the state income tax deduction, but retain the property tax deduction.

While appearing to care and be more fair and inclusive, this will capture vast majority of the revenue IF they really do double the standard deduction.

ccp

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Re: Tax Policy
« Reply #675 on: April 28, 2017, 08:05:46 AM »
*****"they should tax Democrats and all liberals only"

ccp:  You aren't going to like the 'blue state penalty'.  It doesn't follow your motto above. 
http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=1791.msg101397#msg101397****

yes , removing the state income tax deduction will of course hurt me since I live in NJ, but I was referring to all people who vote Democrats not blue states. 

 :lol:

That said I have learned to never expect  to be able keep more of the money I earned fair and honestly.
 

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Tax Policy
« Reply #676 on: April 28, 2017, 08:22:16 AM »
" Dirk Everetson (sp?)?"

Everet Dirkson?

DougMacG

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Re: Tax Policy. Dirksen. Kasich. 1980s US Budget History
« Reply #677 on: April 28, 2017, 08:48:16 AM »
" Dirk Everetson (sp?)?"
Everet Dirkson?

Even backwards, that is a good memory!

“Don’t tax you, don’t tax me, tax that fellow behind the tree.” This quote is attributed to the late Sen. Everett Dirksen of Illinois back in the ‘60s when tax issues were the topic in the U.S. Senate.
http://www.thedailyreview.com/news/2015-12-09/Letters_to_the_Editor/Dont_tax_me.html
-------------------------------

John Kasich from ccp's post:
"I don't think there's any way they can say 'okay we're gonna cut all these taxes and it's going to pay for itself,'" Kasich, told students at the Ivy League school's Institute of Politics

1. Must note that he is out on big salary talking to Ivy Leaguers, not delivering milk(?) like his Dad.  There goes the champion of the little guy - telling the big guys what they want to hear - for big money!

2.  Any chance he was alive or aware during the 1980s?  Reagan cut the top rate from 70% down to 28% and Revenues to the Treasury doubled over the decade. 

Revenues 1980:  $517,100,000,000    The last year before Reagan took office.
Revenues 1990   1,032,000,000,000   The first full year after Reagan left office, his tax policies still in place.
https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/113th-congress-2013-2014/reports/45010-breakout-appendixh.pdf

Rising tide lifts all boats.

3.  Trump with all his warts won more votes and a higher percentage of the vote in the general election in Ohio than Kasich won in the primary with all his hometown advantage, FWIW.

Like McCain opposing tax cuts in 2000, the 'moderates' love to oppose Republican policy and avoid opposing Democrats.  'How can I get NYT and the Ivy Leaguers to like me?'  Note that after the nomination, the msm was nowhere to be seen in support of McCain or any of that ilk, and the left hated Mitt every but as much as they despise Trump.  They hated and mocked Reagan too.  He defeated them with policy wins and economic results, not appeasement.

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Re: Tax Policy
« Reply #678 on: April 28, 2017, 10:21:59 AM »
Once upon a time Kasich was really good on tax and spending issues.

DougMacG

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Tax Policy - Bush Tax Rate Cuts EXPLODED Revenues - 60% Surge!
« Reply #679 on: May 01, 2017, 10:49:01 AM »
Besides ignoring JFK and Reagan, the left and the media, I repeat myself, keep lying about the Bush 'tax cuts'.  Under JFK, 90% rates made it easy to grow the economy and grow revenues by lowering rates, but most noteworthy was the pure, supply side rhetoric of the young, popular Democratic President.  Under Reagan, revenues doubled in a decade and deficits came from the delays to the cuts and even faster growth of spending in compromise with the Tip O'Neill House.

Under Bush, the US economy eventually imploded when it became known with certainty that the Bush tax RATE cuts were ending, when Pelosi-Reid-Obama-HRC and Biden took control of Washington and congress promising tax rate increases.  Besides the impending ending of tax rate cuts, we made all kinds of other economic policy errors, from the Fed's free money to the CRAp that required lenders to make bad loans.

Great article today (below) documenting what I have been trying to say on these pages.

Do you even know anyone who knows that revenues surged 60% in 4 years under the Bush tax cuts?  Does Chuck Todd at Meet the dePressed or John Dickerson at deFace the Nation know that? Has either ever said that?  They say 'blow up the deficit' without being able to do simple arithmetic or memory recall of basic numbers from the very recent past.  (Or do they deceive intentionally?)

Here are the facts:

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/05/isnt_it_time_the_media_told_the_truth_about_bush_tax_cuts.html

In 2002, the top income tax rates for individuals was 38.6% on ordinary income and dividends and 21.2% on capital gains. George W. Bush got Congress to lower taxes across the board and the top bracket to 35% on ordinary income and 15% on dividends and capital gains. (Bush had inherited a recession and a collapsed stock market in 2001 and the economy had been stagnant or slowing up to these tax cuts).

Instead of the tax rate cuts costing the government money, revenues skyrocketed.

From FY 2000 to FY 2003 income tax proceeds had declined from around $1.2 Trillion to around $900 Billion in FY 2003. After the across the board cuts, income tax revenues skyrocketed over 60% to over $1.5 Trillion by FY 2007. The deficit also went down to $161 Billion by FY 2007, including both wars and Medicare Part D. Obviously, the tax rate cuts and the increasing revenue did not increase the deficit as we are repeatedly told.

The tax cuts gave the economy the boost that it needed. It is an extremely simple concept that the more money that is left in the hands of individuals and businesses, the more opportunity there is to spend, save and invest -- and all are good for the overall economy. It is also a simple concept that the more money the government confiscates, the less opportunity there is for growth.

As for jobs, in January 2001 when President Bush took office, there were 132.7 million non- farm workers. By May 2003, when Bush passed the tax cuts, employment had dropped to 130.2 million. At the end of 2007, employment had jumped to 138.4 Million. If employment was trending down before the cuts and jumped substantially after the tax cuts occurred it certainly appears that there is both a correlation and causation related to the tax rate cuts as to the significant boost to the economy.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 11:58:44 AM by DougMacG »

DougMacG

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Thomas Sowell on the tax cuts for the rich lie
« Reply #680 on: May 02, 2017, 07:13:24 AM »
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell050217.php3

One societal sickness that we still can't eradicate: Political lies

Thomas Sowell
By Thomas Sowell
Published May 2, 2017
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell050217.php3One societal sickness that we still can't eradicate: Political lies

A classic example is the phrase "tax cuts for the rich," which is loudly proclaimed by opponents, whenever there is a proposal to reduce tax rates. The current proposal to reduce federal tax rates has revived this phrase, which was disproved by facts, as far back as the 1920s -- and by now should be called "tax lies for the gullible."

How is the claim of "tax cuts for the rich" false? Let me count the ways. More important, you can easily check out the facts for yourself with a simple visit to your local public library or, for those more computer-minded, on the Internet.

One of the key arguments of those who oppose what they call "tax cuts for the rich" is that the Reagan administration tax cuts led to huge federal government deficits, contrary to "supply side economics" which said that lower tax rates would lead to higher tax revenues.

This reduces the whole issue to a question about facts -- and the hard facts are available in many places, including a local public library or on the Internet.

The hardest of these hard facts is that the revenues collected from federal income taxes during every year of the Reagan administration were higher than the revenues collected from federal income taxes during any year of any previous administration.

How can that be? Because tax RATES and tax REVENUES are two different things. Tax rates and tax revenues can move in either the same direction or in opposite directions, depending on how the economy responds.

But why should you take my word for it that federal income tax revenues were higher than before during the Reagan administration? Check it out.

Official statistics are available in many places. The easiest way to find those statistics is to go look at a copy of the annual "Economic Report of the President." It doesn't have to be the latest Report under President Trump. It can be a Report from any administration, from the Obama administration all the way back to the administration of the elder George Bush.

Each annual "Economic Report of the President" has the history of federal revenues and expenditures, going back for decades. And that is just one of the places where you can get this data. The truth is readily available, if you want it. But, if you are satisfied with political rhetoric, so be it.

Before we turn to the question of "the rich," let's first understand the implications of higher income tax revenues after income tax rates were cut during the Reagan administration.

That should have put an end to the talk about how lower tax rates reduce government revenues and therefore tax cuts need to be "paid for" or else there will be rising deficits. There were in fact rising deficits in the 1980s, but that was due to spending that outran even the rising tax revenues.

Congress does the spending, and there is no amount of money that Congress cannot outspend.

As for "the rich," higher-income taxpayers paid more -- repeat, MORE tax revenues into the federal treasury under the lower tax rates than they had under the previous higher tax rates.

That happened not only during the Reagan administration, but also during the Coolidge administration and the Kennedy administration before Reagan, and under the G.W. Bush administration after Reagan. All these administrations cut tax rates and received higher tax revenues than before.

More than that, "the rich" not only paid higher total tax revenues after the so-called "tax cuts for the rich," they also paid a higher percentage of all tax revenues afterwards. Data on this can be found in a number of places, including documented sources listed in my monograph titled "'Trickle Down' Theory and 'Tax Cuts for the Rich.'"

As a source more congenial to some, a front-page story in the New York Times on July 9, 2006 -- during the Bush 43 administration -- reported, "An unexpectedly steep rise in tax revenues from corporations and the wealthy is driving down the projected budget deficit this year." Expectations, of course, are in the eye of the beholder.


Thomas Sowell, a National Humanities Medal winner, is an American economist, social theorist, political philosopher and author. He is currently Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University.

DougMacG

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Laffer on Trump plan
« Reply #681 on: May 02, 2017, 08:03:33 AM »
Arthur Laffer also makes the case for tax policy that brings growth and he compliments Trump on choices in the plan

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/arthur-laffer-trumps-tax-plan-should-follow-the-reagan-model/article/2621763

"...the faulty logic that their tax cuts must be revenue-neutral in a static analysis. "

Static analysis is false when the whole point of the policy change is to accelerate economic growth!


"Voters want and need economic growth... and they want it now!"

Economic growth was 0% last quarter.  This is now May, another quarter shot.  In 7 months we start the next election year and economic results lag policy changes.  I just don't get the lackadaisical approach to the timing of this, as if the policy change doesn't matter.  This isn't the transition or the first 100 days anymore.  Trump should not want his Presidency's economy scored under the Obama administration's tax disincentives system.  If the new reform is so simple, write it up, sell it and pass it.  Let's go!
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 10:59:37 PM by Crafty_Dog »

G M

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Re: Tax Policy
« Reply #682 on: May 02, 2017, 08:19:59 AM »
Can we find a donor for a brain, spine and testicular implants for the stupid party's leadership?


Arthur Laffer also makes the case for tax policy that brings growth and he compliments Trump on choices in the plan

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/arthur-laffer-trumps-tax-plan-should-follow-the-reagan-model/article/2621763

"...the faulty logic that their tax cuts must be revenue-neutral in a static analysis. "

Static analysis is false when the whole point of the policy change is to accelerate economic growth!


"Voters want and need economic growth... and they want it now!"

Economic growth was 0% last quarter.  This is now May, another quarter shot.  In 7 months we start the next election year and economic results lag policy changes.  I just don't get the lackadaisical approach to the timing of this, as if the policy change doesn't matter.  This isn't the transition or the first 100 days anymore.  Trump should not want his Presidency's economy scored under the Obama administration's tax disincentives system.  If the new reform is so simple, write it up, sell it and pass it.  Let's go!

DougMacG

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Re: Tax Policy
« Reply #683 on: May 03, 2017, 01:12:11 PM »
"Can we find a donor for a brain, spine and testicular implants for the stupid party's leadership?"

Under 'stupid party', you will find at least 2 listings.

G M

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Re: Tax Policy
« Reply #684 on: May 03, 2017, 02:08:17 PM »
"Can we find a donor for a brain, spine and testicular implants for the stupid party's leadership?"

Under 'stupid party', you will find at least 2 listings.

Repubs = Stupid party

Dems = Evil party

Libertarians = Crazy party

DougMacG

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Revenue increases that followed Tax Rate Cuts, Coolidge, Kennedy, Reagan
« Reply #685 on: May 15, 2017, 11:19:19 AM »
"Please feel free to post that in the Tax thread here and the Economics thread on the SC&H forum too."

 http://www.heritage.org/node/18247/print-display
The tax rate cuts of the 1920s were followed by a 61% increase revenues over 7 years.
The Kennedy tax rate cuts brought a 62% increase in revenues over 7 years.
The Reagan tax rate cuts yielded a 54% increase over 6 years (100% over 10 years).

Then when Bush or Trump propose tax rate cuts, the media demands to know how they will deal with the static revenue loss - a demonstrably false premise question.

DougMacG

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WSJ, Schumer’s choice: Play on tax reform or lose the state and local deduction.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-blue-state-revival-plan-

Can blue state ideologues be leveraged to act in their own best interest?  I doubt it.

I draw a distinction.  State income taxes are a direct tax on high income earners.  Property taxes are not.

G M

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WSJ, Schumer’s choice: Play on tax reform or lose the state and local deduction.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-blue-state-revival-plan-

Can blue state ideologues be leveraged to act in their own best interest?  I doubt it.

I draw a distinction.  State income taxes are a direct tax on high income earners.  Property taxes are not.

Between this and California's new and exciting single payer, Crafty is going to have to think real hard about where to live.

DougMacG

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Re: Tax Policy, not even on the calendar until September?
« Reply #688 on: June 21, 2017, 06:50:42 AM »
House speaker, Trump aides vow tax reform by end of 2017

"The goal is to get tax legislation to the floor of Congress during the first two weeks of September, Trump economic adviser Gary Cohn told technology industry representatives at the White House."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-tax-idUSKBN19B09U

Good grief.

I wonder if anyone has told them 2018 is an election year where sitting on their asses while Rome burns will be be a topic.  Put off the most important reforms, what could possibly go wrong?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 07:18:55 AM by DougMacG »

DougMacG

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A proposal to reform the taxation of corporate income, AEI, Vaird, Toder
« Reply #689 on: June 21, 2017, 07:22:59 AM »
A proposal to reform the taxation of corporate income

http://www.aei.org/publication/a-proposal-to-reform-the-taxation-of-corporate-income/

Alan D. Viard, Eric Toder

"This report updates and revises the authors’ 2014 proposal to replace the corporate income tax with taxation at ordinary income rates of dividends and net accrued capital gains of American shareholders. The new proposal retains a 15 percent corporate income tax, gives taxable shareholders a credit for corporate taxes paid, imposes a 15 percent tax on interest income of non-profits and retirement plans, and addresses stock price volatility and shifts between private and publicly-traded status. The reform encourages domestic investment and sharply reduces incentives for corporate inversions. It is approximately revenue neutral and makes the tax system more progressive."


ccp

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Re: Tax Policy
« Reply #691 on: June 26, 2017, 04:56:32 AM »
CD,

won't let me see article without subscribing.

Is it referring to the mortgage interest tx deduction?

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Tax Policy
« Reply #692 on: June 26, 2017, 04:59:40 AM »
Here ya go:

=======================

The $1.5 Trillion Business Tax Change Flying Under the Radar
GOP proposal to scrap interest deduction would have profound impact on debt-reliant businesses
Losing the deduction could mean higher tax bills for crop growers who depend on bridge loans to work through seasonal business fluctuations.
Losing the deduction could mean higher tax bills for crop growers who depend on bridge loans to work through seasonal business fluctuations. Photo: Michael Zamora/Associated Press
By Richard Rubin
Updated June 25, 2017 8:18 p.m. ET
319 COMMENTS

Republicans looking to rewrite the U.S. tax code are taking aim at one of the foundations of modern finance—the deduction that companies get for interest they pay on debt.

That deduction affects everyone from titans of Wall Street who load up on junk bonds to pay for multibillion-dollar corporate takeovers to wheat farmers in the Midwest looking to make ends meet before harvest. Yet a House Republican proposal to eliminate the deduction has gotten relatively little sustained public attention or lobbying pressure.

Thanks in part to the deduction, the U.S. financial system is heavily oriented toward debt, which because of the tax code is often cheaper than equity financing—such as sales of stock. It also is widely accessible. In 2015, U.S. businesses paid in all $1.3 trillion in gross interest, according to Commerce Department data, equal in magnitude to the total economic output of Australia.

Getting rid of the deduction for net interest expense, as House Republicans propose, would alter finance. It also would generate about $1.5 trillion in revenue for the government over a decade, according to the Tax Foundation, a conservative-leaning think thank.

The plan would raise money to help offset Republicans’ corporate tax cuts and reduce a “huge bias” toward debt financing, said Robert Pozen, a senior lecturer at MIT’s Sloan School of Management. That bias, he said, hurts companies built around innovation, which tend to not have the physical assets that banks usually require as collateral.

“What we’re proposing is to take the tax preference from the source of funds—borrowing—and take that preference to the use of funds—business investment and buildings, equipment, software, technology,” Rep. Kevin Brady (R., Texas), the author of the plan, said at The Wall Street Journal CFO network conference this month.

In a world with no interest deduction, debt-fueled leveraged buyouts by private-equity titans could become more expensive to finance and junk bonds less appealing. “That’s not necessarily bad for society,” said David Beim, a retired Columbia University finance professor. “We have too much systemic financial risk in our economy.”

The dollar size of repealing the net-interest-expense deduction is even larger than another controversial proposal being pushed by House Republicans known as border adjustment, which would tax imports and exempt exports. The border adjustment plan has been under attack from retailers and Republican senators, whose resistance has put it on the brink of failure. But the idea of eliminating or limiting the interest deduction has generated less vocal opposition, giving it a real chance of passage, perhaps in a scaled-back form.

Republicans are aiming to agree on a framework for tax policy by September and send a bill to President Donald Trump this year. It will be an uphill fight fraught with intraparty political divides, and companies who want to keep the interest deduction will have plenty of clout.

For some debt-reliant businesses, the interest deduction’s demise could be a blow. Crop growers who depend on bridge loans to work through seasonal business fluctuations could face higher tax bills.


Andy Hill, who farms corn and soybeans on about 600 acres in north-central Iowa, said he pays less than $10,000 a year in interest on a line of credit between $100,000 and $200,000. That loan helps him bridge gaps between his expenses and his income, between when he needs to buy seed and fertilizer and when he sells his crops.

“[Losing the ability to deduct interest] wouldn’t put me in the red by any stretch of the imagination, but it makes it very debilitating as far as household income,” said Mr. Hill, who added that he has reached out to both of his senators and his House member about the issue.

Midsize businesses may also get squeezed.

“The people that utilize debt, they utilize it because they don’t have the cash and they don’t have the access to equity,” said Robert Moskovitz, chief financial officer of Leaf Commercial Capital, which finances businesses’ purchases of items like copiers and telephone systems. “A dry cleaner in Des Moines, Iowa? Where is he going to get equity? He can’t do an IPO.”

The idea behind the Republican plan is to pair the elimination of this deduction with immediate deductions for investments in equipment and other long-lived assets. Party leaders expect the capital write-offs would encourage more investment and growth and greater worker productivity, but not the debt often associated with it.

From an accounting standpoint, the tradeoff could hurt companies’ reported earnings because immediate expensing would just shift the timing of deductions and the loss of the interest deduction would be a permanent change.

Dennis Kelleher, chief financial officer of CF Industries Holdings Inc., a fertilizer manufacturer, said at a conference in May that the most important thing for the company would be a lower corporate tax rate.

“I don’t think that’s a good thing,” he said of repealing the interest deduction. “I suspect that won’t happen because it would be rather destabilizing, just to the capital markets generally.”

Unlike border adjustment, the idea of accelerating investment write-offs has broad support from conservative groups, such as the National Taxpayers Union, and some support from Democrats, including Jason Furman, who was President Barack Obama’s chief economist. It was a move in the opposite direction, toward longer depreciation schedules, that helped doom a Republican tax plan in 2014.

The tax code treats equity financing more harshly than debt. While interest is deductible, dividend payments typically aren’t. Corporate profits can thus be subject to two layers of tax—once at the business level and then when they go to shareholders in the form of dividends.

 That means the effective marginal tax rate on equity-financed corporate investments is 34.5%, according to a report released by the Treasury Department this year in the waning days of the Obama administration. The corresponding rate for debt-financed investment is negative 5%. That subsidy for corporate debt “potentially creates a large tax-induced distortion in business decision making,” the report says.

But borrowing and deducting interest are deeply ingrained in American corporate finance as a normal cost of doing business. Dislodging the traditional practice will be challenging. Some firms might look to borrow offshore instead to reap tax benefits elsewhere.

“I don’t even think people think about it much,” said MIT’s Mr. Pozen. “It’s clear that they’re going to finance it by debt if they have a big acquisition or a big project.”

Because so much is at stake for so many sectors, writing the law could get messy. Mr. Brady said small businesses and utilities could get exceptions or specialized rules, as could debt-financed purchases of land, which wouldn’t be eligible for immediate investment write-offs.

The administration, including a president who has proclaimed himself the “king of debt,” has been wary of repealing the interest deduction but hasn’t drawn a hard line, according to multiple statements. Treasury secretary Steven Mnuchin has said his preference is to keep it. Resistance could build among Republicans in Congress and among real-estate firms and the agriculture industry, which have formed a coalition to fight the proposal. Yet financial markets so far have registered little reaction to the prospect of the interest deduction going away. One reason: The tax change most likely would apply to new loans only.

Junk-rated bonds, issued by companies that typically carry a large amount of debt, have returned 4.6% this year—better than the 4.3% returns of investment-grade bonds, according to Bloomberg Barclays data.

Without repealing the interest deduction, Republicans’ hopes of providing full and immediate deductions for capital investment are dim. They probably wouldn’t have enough money to offset the upfront fiscal cost of accelerating those deductions.

The plus for the GOP is that this issue is more familiar and less black-and-white than the complex border adjustment plan. Limits on interest and accelerated write-offs could be dialed to a politically comfortable spot. If Republicans can’t stomach full repeal of the interest deduction and immediate write-offs, they could try something short of that with, say, half of capital expenses being deductible and half of interest being deductible.

Andrea Auerbach, head of global private investment research at Cambridge Associates, which advises institutions that invest in private equity, said the industry would survive a tax overhaul that removes the interest deduction.

“The effects will reverberate for sure,” especially among larger firms that rely more on debt, she said. “But debt is still going to be cheaper than equity, so I don’t think it’s going away.”

—Sam Goldfarb contributed to this article.

Write to Richard Rubin at richard.rubin@wsj.com

Appeared in the June 26, 2017, print edition as 'A $1.5 Trillion Tax Change Flies Under the Radar.'

DougMacG

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Re: Tax Policy, Seattle's New Income Tax on the Rich
« Reply #693 on: July 11, 2017, 09:50:52 AM »
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-council-to-vote-today-on-income-tax-on-the-wealthy/
The measure applies a 2.25 percent tax on total income above $250,000 for individuals and above $500,000 for married couples filing their taxes together. A legal challenge is expected.
------------------

This begs two questions:|

Do liberal leftist cities, states and nations want the rich to leave? ... or

Are they deniers of Science?

G M

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Re: Tax Policy, Seattle's New Income Tax on the Rich
« Reply #694 on: July 11, 2017, 11:02:42 AM »
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-council-to-vote-today-on-income-tax-on-the-wealthy/
The measure applies a 2.25 percent tax on total income above $250,000 for individuals and above $500,000 for married couples filing their taxes together. A legal challenge is expected.
------------------

This begs two questions:|

Do liberal leftist cities, states and nations want the rich to leave? ... or

Are they deniers of Science?


Seattle to California: "Hold my beer and watch this!"

DougMacG

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It's all I can do to keep this thread from falling off the first page.  What's the matter, isn't saving the country from total government confiscation sexy enough?   

Governors and Mayors Should Be Begging for Trump’s Tax Cut
Expanding the economy means more revenue for states and cities—just as it did in Reagan’s day.

By Arthur Laffer and  Stephen Moore
July 13, 2017 7:04 p.m. ET

These are brutal days for state governments, especially progressive ones. Last week Illinois passed its first budget in two years, raising taxes by $5 billion—despite already having a state and local tax burden that’s among the highest in the nation. Connecticut’s deficits are so big, according to the fiscal watchdog group Truth in Accounting, that every taxpayer would have to pony up an extra $49,500 to pay off all the liabilities. In Oklahoma, where low oil prices have tanked state revenue, some public schools open only four days a week.

Liberal groups warn that President Trump’s proposals would make things worse by reducing the funds Washington sends states under programs like Medicaid. Governors and mayors, the argument goes, would be forced either to slash social services or raise taxes to make up the difference.

But focusing on federal support obscures the real problem. The biggest cause of states’ budget woes is the anemic condition of the national economy. Over the past eight years, growth in state and local revenue has slowed to a crawl. In fiscal 2017, total state revenue rose by less than 1% after adjusting for inflation, according to the National Association of State Budget Officers.

What states need most to regain fiscal health are national policies that accelerate the growth of the economy. Governors and mayors should be lobbying nonstop for the tax cuts proposed by Mr. Trump, which would revitalize state finances.

When the federal government cuts taxes, more money is left in the hands of businesses and workers. The Trump plan would free up an estimated $2 trillion to $4 trillion over 10 years—an enormous influx of cash for state and local economies.

Compare state finances during the go-go Reagan years with President Obama’s tenure, beginning after the end of the recession each president faced. After the recession of 1983, the national economy grew an average of more than 4% a year through 1990. During the Obama recovery between 2009 and 2016, the economy grew just over 2% annually. Remember that those effects compound: Strong growth year on year increases the size of the economy over time.

If state and local tax revenue had grown under President Obama at the rate it did under President Reagan, receipts in 2016 would have been greater by about $650 billion, or 26%, according to national income and product account data. If the economy in the Obama years had grown at 3.5% to 4%, the average rate for postrecession recoveries, states and cities would have had about $430 billion more. Think what they could do with nearly half a trillion dollars in additional tax revenue each year.

Even if Republican tax reform eliminates the federal deduction for state and local income taxes—a move we support—its effect on states would still be overwhelmingly positive. When federal income taxes were high in the 1970s, people could write off as much as 70% of their state and local taxes. Slashing rates in the 1980s brought that figure down to as low as 28%. Yet state fiscal health improved dramatically in the ’80s. The main effect of eliminating the deduction today would be to reduce the federal subsidy to high-tax states.

Critics will say this forecast for economic and revenue growth is wishful thinking, but it is based on the historical record. In the seven years after the Kennedy tax cuts, real state and local receipts grew by more than 60%, according to data from the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. In the seven years after the Reagan rate cuts, the real increase was 37%. After Mr. Obama’s tax increases, real growth was a meager 10%.

The nonpartisan Tax Foundation estimates that after 10 years the Trump tax reform would increase America’s long-run gross domestic product by up to 8.2%. State and local governments capture about 13% of GDP in taxes according to 2016 Internal Revenue Service data, meaning the growth spurred by the proposed cuts would give them about $200 billion more each year by 2027 to balance their budgets, reduce taxes, or spend on education and social programs.

With the Trump tax cuts in place, the cumulative increase in state and local revenue over the following 10 years would be roughly $1 trillion. Could any imaginable tax increase raise that kind of money?

Amazingly, the bean counters at the Congressional Budget Office and Joint Tax Committee completely ignore this effect when they tally the “cost” of tax cuts in terms of forgone revenue. Almost a third of the lost federal revenue from Mr. Trump’s tax reform would be recouped by states and cities.

We only have one question: Why aren’t more governors and mayors—especially those in economically depressed areas—demanding the Trump tax cuts?

Mr. Laffer is chairman of Laffer Associates. Mr. Moore is a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation. They are co-chairmen of the Committee to Unleash Prosperity.

DougMacG

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Do a tax cut NOW, Forbes, Kudlow, Laffer, Moore, get the rest later
« Reply #696 on: July 17, 2017, 07:43:02 AM »
Famous people reading the forum.  We are going to have a mid-term referendum on the economy in 2018, about a minute from now, and we are governing the American private sector with the exact tax plan left in place by Obama, Biden, Pelosi, Reid, Sanders, Ellison, Schumer, Maxine Waters, et al.  Talk about self destructive behavior.  And this is okay because, well, we just can't come to agreement amongst ourselves and well we didn't really expect to win??  Good grief, get going, DO SOMETHING!

http://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/a-tax-cut-victory-before-labor-day/

A Tax Cut Victory Before Labor Day
LAWRENCE KUDLOW, STEPHEN MOORE, ARTHUR B. LAFFER and STEVE FORBES7/14/2017
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President Trump and Republican leaders in Congress must act with much more urgency and decisiveness on tax cuts.

In recent weeks the tax cut agenda seems stalled out and the delays and indecision are negatively affecting growth and the stock market. We hear that a tax plan from the White House may not come until the fall and may not even pass Congress until 2018 – if at all.

Is it any wonder that investors are getting jittery? The stock market had priced in much of the anticipated benefits to business, wages and profits, which accounts in no small part for the $3 trillion rise in equity values and the surge in business and consumer confidence after the election. Now the confidence is waning.

Without a tax cut passage in 2017, the odds of Republicans losing the House and Senate in November 2018 are heightened. The economy needs time to respond to the growth hormones from the Trump tax plan. A prosperous economy in 2018 is by far the best way for the GOP to build on its historic victory in 2016.

We reject the idea that a simple, clear, growth-oriented tax cut can't happen this summer. Barack Obama passed an $830 billion so-called "stimulus bill" within weeks of his new presidency in 2009. Ronald Reagan signed into law at his ranch in Santa Barbara, Calif. his historic tax cut — then the largest in history — by August of his first year in office. The only reason Republicans haven't made this happen is that the tax cut has not been a priority.

To jump-start the tax debate, we are suggesting a Three Easy Pieces initiative:

A 15% business tax rate for small and large businesses, with full and immediate expensing for capital purchases.
A repatriation tax at 10% for foreign earnings brought back to the United States.
A doubling of the standard deduction from $6,500 to $13,000 for individuals and $13,000 to $25,000 for couples,‎ to put more money into their pockets now and to simplify tax returns.
This plan over 10 years would deliver a $3 trillion tax cut to workers and businesses, and the boost in growth in jobs and output will produce higher-than-predicted increases in federal, state and local tax receipts. A 3%-plus growth rate over the next decade will yield more than $3 trillion in lower deficits at the federal level and almost $1 trillion more in revenues for the states and cities.

We estimate that the business tax cut and full expensing would expand business investment and inflows back into the United States by potentially trillions of dollars in 2018. Instead of jobs, businesses and factories fleeing these shores, the U.S. would become an overnight magnet for capital and jobs. America would be the tax haven.

What does this mean for the middle class? First, the Congressional Budget Office estimates that about two-thirds of the benefits of the corporate tax cut would go to workers in more jobs and wages as businesses reinvest at a faster pace. Faster growth and higher wages would put after-tax revenue in the pockets of average families. Welfare would fall and prosperity would be the new mindset. The increase in the standard deduction would save many middle-class families about $1,500 to $2,000 a year on their taxes and simplify taxes by reducing the need for middle-class families to itemize their deductions.

This "keep it simple" tax plan would scrap three widely believed misconceptions on the way forward on tax policy. The first misconception is that a tax plan should be paid for with offsetting tax increases. No. Revenue neutrality is an inside-the-Beltway trap and will prevent passage of a strong tax cut. We fully recognize that because of arcane budget rules, rejecting revenue neutrality means that the tax cut will not be permanent.

But nothing is permanent in Washington. With 51 votes, the Senate can pass a "temporary" tax cut for that lasts for 10 or 15 years without a single Democrat vote. We would much prefer a powerful tax cut that is "temporary" over a revenue-neutral tax plan that is economically impotent.

The second misconception is that a border-adjustable tax is necessary. Incredibly, the House leaders still have not given up on this wildly unpopular and ill-designed sales tax. This obsession with the border tax is beginning to look like the Pickett's Charge of tax reform.

Third, is that passing a tax cut now will kill the move for tax simplification and broader reform with lower tax rates and elimination of special interest tax breaks. No. Winning creates its own momentum. A populist campaign to rip up the incomprehensible 60,000-page tax code should be the GOP crusade for 2018 and 2019 – and we will be right behind President Trump in that fight.

Finally, Trump will have to fight for this tax cut not just to take on the liberal class-warfare warriors, but also to get the knee-knockers in his own party off the dime. He should hold a nationally televised address from the Oval Office in the weeks ahead making the case to the American people that a tax cut is vitally important to the economic health, jobs and the vitality of the nation.

This is what Reagan did to push foot-dragging House and Senate members forward on passage of his tax plan in 1981. That changed the course of the American economy for nearly two decades, and Donald Trump can accomplish the same economic resurgence if he acts decisively — and with all due speed.

G M

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Republican failure
« Reply #697 on: July 17, 2017, 09:51:17 AM »
Failure to end Obamacare and to cut taxes will result in real losses next year. The republican party never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

DougMacG

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Unified tax-reform framework
« Reply #698 on: July 27, 2017, 07:29:55 AM »
Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) told attendees at an event Tuesday at the Capitol Hill Club that the unified tax-reform framework would be unveiled later in the week, and that the House Ways and Means Committee would then write legislation based on the principles.
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/343918-white-house-gop-close-to-releasing-joint-tax-reform-principles

What say this group on tax reform?

Crafty_Dog

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WSJ: Tax Policy Principles
« Reply #699 on: July 28, 2017, 03:26:13 AM »
y The Editorial Board
July 27, 2017 7:16 p.m. ET
46 COMMENTS

The ‘Big Six” GOP tax negotiators released a statement of principles Thursday, and the main news is the death of the House border-adjustment tax. A favorite idea of Speaker Paul Ryan, the BAT was savaged by retailers who feared they’d pay more for imports. The problem is that the BAT would have raised as much as $1 trillion to pay for lower tax rates, so its defeat raises a new obstacle to reform.

This shows that tax reform may be even harder to pull off than repealing ObamaCare given how politicians have laced the tax code with subsidies and carve-outs. Interests clawing to keep their favors usually defeat the public interest in lower rates. But the potential payoff in faster growth and rising incomes is still worth the political effort, so give Congress and President Trump credit for setting the goal of a signing ceremony this year.

As the debate begins, this is a good moment to offer some principles to judge how reform is faring:

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• The growth priority. After 12 years of a lackluster economy, or worse, tax reform’s overriding goal should be to lift annual GDP to 3% or more. The current expansion is into its ninth year and showing signs of age. Europe has grown faster than the U.S. for some time. The Trump bump in financial markets hasn’t been matched in the real economy.

Amid a labor shortage and sluggish incomes, a capital spending surge is crucial to give the expansion a second wind. This is where tax reform must focus. This means lowering tax rates on business and individuals to spur risk-taking and investment.

In particular it means cutting the U.S. corporate tax rate low enough to compete with the rest of the world and return $2 trillion in capital that U.S. companies have stashed overseas. A corporate rate much higher than 20% won’t do the job. The evidence of economic research is overwhelming that cuts in corporate tax rates flow to workers in higher wages.

The political opposition will come from Democrats and many Republicans who view tax reform mainly as a populist lever to redistribute income. They include White House aide Steve Bannon, who wants to raise tax rates on the affluent, and conservatives like Mike Lee on Capitol Hill who think taxes should serve social policy. The risk is that they will steal money for tax credits that do nothing for growth and could be used to reduce rates.

• Make cuts immediate. One temptation in every reform debate is to phase-in tax cuts to fit inside Congress’s 10-year budget-deficit box. That is a growth killer as investors delay decisions to wait for lower rates. George W. Bush made that mistake with his 2001 tax cut, which was a growth bust. He corrected it by making his 2003 cuts immediate, and the faster growth that followed saved his re-election.

• Permanence. Businesses invest with a long tail, and they will scuttle some projects if they think lower rates go poof after five or 10 years. Mr. Bush made this mistake in 2003 and Barack Obama took advantage in 2013.

Thursday’s joint GOP statement says the goal “places a priority on permanence,” which is progress. Some provisions, such as business expensing, could end after five years without doing too much harm. But tax rates should be fixed in law so future Congresses will have a harder time changing them.

• Reform, not merely a tax cut. One reason tax reform spurs growth is by reducing subsidies so capital can flow where it gets the highest return. This efficiency increases productivity, which increases wages. But this means stripping out as much chaff as possible in the tax code like subsidies for electric cars, real estate or racetracks.

Ending these subsidies also helps pay for lower rates. But the GOP has already agreed not to change the mortgage-interest or charitable deductions, and now the trillion-dollar BAT is dead. Reformers will have to fight that much harder to end the big-dollar deductions for state and local taxes and for interest on business borrowing.

If that becomes too difficult, the temptation will be to abandon reform and default to the lowest-common political denominator of a simple tax cut. This would be better than nothing, but it won’t boost capital investment or the economy nearly as much in the medium- or long-run.

• The deficit-neutral trap. The budget outline now moving through the House promises a balanced budget in 10 years including tax reform. That may be necessary to pass the outline but it could be the death of tax reform if it locks the GOP into the fiscal prison of budget “scores” by the Congressional Budget Office and Joint Tax Committee.

Speaker Ryan has worked for years to get those bureaucracies to better account for rising tax revenues that flow from faster growth, but they still use models that underestimate the growth impact of tax cuts on capital and marginal rates.

Republicans need to find an exit from the deficit-neutral trap. Perhaps that means taking a revenue score from Treasury’s Office of Tax Analysis, rather than Joint Tax. Balanced-budget fetishists might keep in mind that Ronald Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts would never have happened had Congress not tolerated deficits. Faster growth caused revenues to boom and the deficit eventually fell.

With ObamaCare repeal foundering, Republicans can’t afford another “skinny” reform that fails to deliver on Mr. Trump’s promise to raise growth and wages. Tax reform will determine whether this Congress was worth electing.

Appeared in the July 28, 2017, print edition.