Author Topic: 2016 Presidential  (Read 471502 times)

Crafty_Dog

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The bookies vs. the pollsters
« Reply #950 on: December 25, 2015, 10:04:02 AM »
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/4c912406-a5b1-11e5-a91e-162b86790c58.html#axzz3vAottJQ2

Look beyond the polls for the real odds on Donald Trump

A canny Scots acquaintance observed the other day, “you can lie to a pollster any time you want but you don’t lie to your bookmaker.” Anybody can lay off or hedge bets, but his fundamental point has validity, never more so as the 2016 presidential election gets closer.

Public opinion polls are a dime a dozen but some have shown, as the Republican Donald Trump repeatedly asserts, that he could beat Hillary Clinton, the Democratic frontrunner, next November. Others have suggested that Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz, the two Republican senators apparently on the rise, could run her close.

The betting shops, however, paint a different picture. The higher messrs Trump, Rubio and Cruz rise in the GOP, the heavier favourite Mrs Clinton becomes to win it all. It probably helps her that she has established a dominant lead over her only real challenger, Senator Bernie Sanders, who seemed a bit of a threat in the summer. As it stands a repetition of 2008, when she was sandbagged by Barack Obama en route to the nomination, appears unlikely.
She has also been campaigning pretty much under the radar, so much attention having been devoted to the Republican contest, which in turn, as Mr Trump says with every waking moment, is all about the polls — where he sits on top.

The problem is with the polls themselves, both generically and specifically. Everybody, not least the reporters who now use them as the crutch without which they could not write or say a word, should read Professor Jill Lepore’s damning dissection of their reliability in the New Yorker magazine last month.
Initially, in the days where Thomas Dewey “beat” Harry Truman — as the Chicago Tribune so famously miscalled the 1948 presidential election on its front page — there was a fascination with polling. The very notion that ordinary people could be asked for their opinions was seductive, with upwards of 90 per cent of those approached responding. Today, that percentage is in single-digits — and not only because half the country now uses only mobile phones, difficult for pollsters to reach, and not landlines.

Polling’s demographic models look increasingly suspect and their samples smaller and smaller, often as few as 300-400 people. Of those, some respondents surely lie about their opinions or indeed whether they intend to vote at all (Mr Trump’s supporters are believed not to be regular voters, which may be true, but the evidence is not exactly persuasive).

Also, polls have focused almost exclusively on the Republican contest and Republican voters in the first two states where actual ballots will be cast, Iowa and New Hampshire. Attempts have been made to extrapolate such findings to the general election, but, again, they are inherently suspect. They have tended to show even the rank outsiders in the Republican field within spitting distance of Mrs Clinton, which defies credulity.

A cruise through the betting websites (PaddyPower, Bovada, Intrade, the University of Iowa’s futures contracts and so on) paints a much less volatile — though not static — picture, in which Mrs Clinton has strengthened her standing. PaddyPower at the moment makes her the 8/11 favourite to win it all in November, against Mr Rubio at 5/1, Mr Trump at 6/1 and Mr Cruz at 6/1. That translates into giving her a 55-58 per cent chance of becoming the next president. The University of Iowa market puts it slightly higher at just over 60 per cent.

Using the US method of expressing odds, in which the number 100 means evens and a minus number reflects odds on — in other words, that it is more likely to happen — Bovada has Mrs Clinton at -130, up from -110 in August.

She is trailed by Mr Rubio at 400, Mr Trump at 600 and Mr Cruz at 1000*. It may be noted that the oddsmakers rank Mr Trump only second favourite to win the GOP nomination, in sharp contrast to the opinion polls that have him ahead by streets. They must have some faith that the party establishment — which loathes both Messrs Trump and Cruz — will find a way of asserting itself.

Of course stuff does happen and change the odds, as when people actually cast a vote rather than express opinions. Before the Iowa caucuses in 2008 Mrs Clinton was given a 70 per chance of winning the Democratic nomination against Mr Obama with 25 per cent. Even after the caucuses, which he won, she was given a 52-44 per cent edge. By April, however, with several big state primaries remaining in her strongholds, he was north of 80 per cent while she was logging in at barely 12 per cent.

Stuff could happen again. The populist anti-establishment wave sweeping over the Republicans could engulf the wider electorate. The Clinton name could prove a liability, just as the Bush one has to Jeb Bush, the former Florida governor whose campaign is flailing, especially if the mantra of change again takes hold. Terrorists could strike again at home and the Middle East deteriorate further, if that is possible. The economy could turn sour, although the Federal Reserve does not think so. All the demographic factors favouring Mrs Clinton (with women, minorities of all colours and sexual persuasions) will be worth less if people do not vote. Pigs might even fly.

But the bookmakers, who generally win, calculate all this in laying their odds. If only the pollsters, proven so wrong in too many elections around the world to count, could do the same

Crafty_Dog

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ppulatie

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #952 on: December 25, 2015, 12:09:34 PM »
I am really beginning to love this!!!! Here is why:

The arguments against Trump.

1. He is not going to run. He is just seeking publicity. Oops, he announced.

2. He is not going to file the preliminary paperwork. This is all a game. Oops, he did.

3. He is not going to file his financials. He is running a bluff.  Oops, he did.

4. He is not a serious candidate.

5. He is only at 7%. No one supports him. He will not go any higher.

6. Trump is now at 15%. That is his ceiling. He can't go higher.

7. Trump's disapproval ratings are about 70%. He only gets about a 30% approval. With his negatives, he can't go any higher.

8. The Fox debate and his performance was pitiful. He will lose support.

9. Trump is at 20+%. He has hit the ceiling and he cannot go any higher.

10. Trumps approval ratings are up to 40%. Negatives are 60%. He can't go any higher.

11.Head to Head Trump against Hillary and Hillary wins by 20%. Trump can't win the election.

12. Trump's Kelly comments.........he is finished.

13. Trump only appeals to lo-fo voters. He cannot go higher with them.

14. Trump at 30%. He is at his ceiling. These are online polls. They are not accurate.

15. Trump at 38%. Let's quote Q showing him at 28% and running behind Hillary. No one will know.

16. We can't let Trump win. Run a 3rd Party or else support Hillary.

17. The schlong statement is not Presidential. Trump is finished.

18. The bookies are betting against Trump. Bookies are winners so they know what is going on.

19. Trump supporters will not go out and vote.

I wonder what the next round of excuses and rationalizations will be.
PPulatie

DDF

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Re: TrumpClinton poll: DEAD HEAT
« Reply #953 on: December 25, 2015, 02:02:37 PM »
Wow.   I think it is a CNN poll.

PP, check this out:

https://gma.yahoo.com/video/poll-results-show-trump-clinton-234317361.html

Crude grade school language "trumps" lies, sleaze, corruption  :-D :-o :lol:

When Clinton says that she "really deplores the tone of his campaign," that can only be a good thing.

Noteworthy is the fact that Hillary was all too silent while Bill was showing off the presidential cigar collection. Who is generating a war on women? It isn't Trump.

ppulatie

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #954 on: December 25, 2015, 02:59:09 PM »
DDF

The war on women attitude is exactly what Trump is prepared to attack Hillary on. He is setting her up for the kill. Any other Rep nominee would be too afraid to go there.

I cannot wait for her and Trump to debate. He will get her off the "canned sound bites" and she will totally lose it. That will be the point that Trump wins the election.  (This should have happened with O'Bummer in 2012, but Romney or the others were not the "men" to do it.)
PPulatie

Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #955 on: December 25, 2015, 03:12:26 PM »
Well, if Trump is the Rep nominee, "From your lips to God's ear."

DDF

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #956 on: December 25, 2015, 09:06:04 PM »
I am really beginning to love this!!!! Here is why:


19. Trump supporters will not go out and vote.



If ever there was an election that I am going to make sure I vote in, this will be it.

"If Trump is the Rep nominee..." First the chief gripe was that he couldn't beat Hillary....not it's  "From your lips to God's ear."

Trump is ruffling people's feathers. I like it. It's refreshing. As it should be.

Trump is going to win this....or Hillary will destroy it.

I have to wonder how the majority of Republicans feel to be put in the independent voters' places and be forced to support one of our candidates for once. It seems, they don't much like it.

It makes me smile.

DDF

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Re: 2016 Presidential - Clinton
« Reply #957 on: December 27, 2015, 10:28:08 AM »
There's been much chatter on here about Trump being able to get the better of Clinton, but nothing concering Clinton possibly being a 3rd party candidate. Why not? She certainly carries a good amount of baggage.

Go Trump.

Clinton, Sanders....have fun splitting your voter base too.

http://www.allenbwest.com/2015/12/look-which-democrat-is-now-eyeing-an-independent-run-for-president/


Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #959 on: December 31, 2015, 04:18:57 PM »
Gave $20 each to Cruz and Rubio today , , ,

DougMacG

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #960 on: January 01, 2016, 09:33:58 AM »
Gave $20 each to Cruz and Rubio today , , ,

 :-D

Everyone should do everything they can right now to make a difference - before we get to that point where we spend the rest of the year and the rest of our lives whining about the lousy choices on the ballot.

Crafty_Dog

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DougMacG

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Re: Betting sites more accurate than polls
« Reply #962 on: January 08, 2016, 01:46:45 PM »
Hat tip to Big Dog for this one:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/political_commentary/commentary_by_john_stossel/bettors_know_better_than_pundits

Rubio is the GOP betting favorite still.  Trump leads Rubio in some polls by 41 to about 10.  Hillary is flawed.  11 cents buys a dollar of a President Trump.  A tenth of a cent buys a dollar of Fiorina payout.  Our Trump supporter predicts Rubio over Trump but then Hillary over Rubio.  This is better than sports betting.

Cruz fell below Trump since the posting.  There is quite a bit of game left to be played - or whatever Yogi Berra used to say.

DougMacG

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Re: 2016 Presidential, Latest Fox poll
« Reply #963 on: January 09, 2016, 09:12:44 AM »
In the GOP contest, it is the same 1,2,3, Trump, Cruz, Rubio.

Trump has improved in the general election matchup with Hillary because she is down, Cruz has improved, but Rubio still matches up the best.

Take the one of these three who matches up the best.  Otherwise take one of the two plus term Governors to know they are ready to govern, manage bureaucracy and so on - but not Rick Perry, Scott Walker, Bobby Jindal, Jeb Bush, John Kasich or Chris Christie.
-------------------------------------
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html
RCP Average   12/16 - 1/7   --   --    Clinton 44.6   Trump 42.6   Clinton +2.0
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html#polls
RCP Average   11/16 - 12/20   --   --   Sanders 44.3   Trump 42.3   Sanders +2.0
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_rubio_vs_clinton-3767.html
RCP Average   12/16 - 1/7   --   --   Rubio 46.5   Clinton 43.5   Rubio +3.0
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_rubio_vs_sanders-5564.html
RCP Average   10/29 - 12/20   --   --   Rubio 44.0   Sanders 43.0   Rubio +1.0

In 2012 the 'experts' told us we were fools for not believing the polls.

And don't be surprised if Sanders is the Dem nominee.  He also matches up best.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #964 on: January 09, 2016, 09:26:40 AM »
" whatever Yogi Berra used to say":  If I am not mistaken it was "It ain't over until its over"  :-)

Stunned at how well Sanders is showing in these match ups!

DougMacG

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #965 on: January 09, 2016, 09:39:08 AM »
It's hard to imagine a scenario where Trump loses the nomination.  But people keep trying:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/07/opinion/campaign-stops/how-donald-trump-loses.html?rref=collection%2Fcolumn%2Fross-douthat&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection&_r=1

Cruz consolidates Iowa, knocks out Huck, Carson, Santorum and beats Trump in the south.  That takes away Trump magic and inevitability, makes him one of the pack.

But in New Hampshire, the people who seem to hate Trump the most, Kasich and JEB, stay in, split potential Rubio vote and enable a Trump win.  If Rubio edges them out he takes second or third, Trump gets a win, but then they drop and other states and other regions like mountains and west come into play.

If Kasich can win Ohio and have other midwest strength, that continues the vote split an Rubio never emerges.

I don't know what Pat was saying about so many candidates being an establishment conspiracy.  The split of support clearly favors Trump.

DDF

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« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 12:47:55 PM by DDF »

DougMacG

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #967 on: January 12, 2016, 11:28:49 AM »
3 scenarios for the GOP, none seem very likely but one will happen:

1)  Trump's vote comes out as strong as his polling numbers or better.  He wins Iowa, wins by more in NH, continues to grow, wins SC, FL, etc. and truly becomes the front runner.

2)  Cruz wins Iowa by more than expected, wins southern states and places better than expected elsewhere like NH.  Becomes the darling of the conservative movement and a real contender.  Knocks out or knocks down Trump with his strength.

3)  Cruz beats Trump in Iowa.  Rubio or could be someone else places third in Iowa, much closer to the top two than expected, takes first or second in NH, better than expected and starts to become the story.

My bet in order of likelihood is 3)  Rubio or someone else, 2) Cruz, and then 1) Trump, meaning this race right now is exactly backwards.  I also have money on Hillary not being the Dem nominee...

Next debate is this Thursday.  Some of the questions each have to address are obvious (like are you eligible to President).  How well they handle them the obvious important.  Who will rise above the pettiness?  Who will look and sound the most Presidential?  Who will send us chasing shiny objects?  We are still looking for a blunder or a gaffe (or scandal).  I don't expect one.  Will one of the questioners become the story (again)?  Everything until now was pre-game.  The image they leave going forward combined with how the early state results start coming in will determine the outcome.

Crafty_Dog

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Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #969 on: January 14, 2016, 10:05:10 AM »
With Iran seizing and humiliating our sailors, tonight could be a perfect moment for Rubio to hit Cruz with a full broadside on his repeated votes against increasing military spending.

For good measure he could go after Trump for his open sympathy to the Russian-Iranian axis.

DougMacG

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #970 on: January 14, 2016, 11:28:57 AM »
With Iran seizing and humiliating our sailors, tonight could be a perfect moment for Rubio to hit Cruz with a full broadside on his repeated votes against increasing military spending.

For good measure he could go after Trump for his open sympathy to the Russian-Iranian axis.

Interesting, or at least he may go after them in counterattack.

George Will and Nate Silver were beating up on Rubio today in different ways.  The Will peice is all over the map, never stopping to complete a full point, immigration, Libya, sugar and something else.  Sugar is one case of Rubio failing a purity test.  Libya is more complicated than that.  Immigration on Rubio has already been beaten to death; he would probably have a 75% market share with that, and I didn't follow his last complaint, but it wasn't the parking tickets. The Nate Silver piece is more about how every other candidate still sees Rubio as their main threat.  Hard to say that is a negative on Rubio.  Rubio at some point and timing is everything, silver argues, Rubio will have to make a show of strength.  The word is that Bush and Christie will gang up on Rubio giving him more time and attention to make his case and make all these questions fully vetted.  Trump and Cruz are expected fight and each other.  Rubio may be the one who is not seen as attack his own challengers, hopefully just making his own case to be President.  In all cases it will be important to see how each is able to stand their ground on the mostly predictable challenges they face.

Rush today lamented how hard Republicans are taking down one of their own (Rubio).  I think it is too soon to write his 2016 political obituary.  So far he always seems to hold his own in debates.

I wonder if a questioner will try to expose limits on the front runner's knowledge.

Ben Carson says he will push harder to get his own message out.

http://www.unionleader.com/George-Will-Rubios-record-of-misjudgment
http://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/iowa-week/?#livepress-update-23079219

Take a look at Nate Silver's ideology map. (Who is most electable?)
https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/silver-gop-five-ring-circus-jan141.png
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 11:42:25 AM by DougMacG »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #971 on: January 15, 2016, 08:49:38 AM »
Great debate last night.    Comments?

ccp

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #972 on: January 15, 2016, 12:10:24 PM »
well I posted on the other thread no one except Christy answered the questions on the national debt or social security shortfalls.

The debt is to me the biggest threat the US faces.  If capitalism cannot address this we are in for a big mess to say the least.

I thought Cruz sounded bad on NYC but I thought it ironic that Trump was criticizing him for being insulting.

Other than that Christy was decent as was Kasich though we know they are conciliators.

Bush just cannot accept he is done.

Boy Hank Greenberg must have really felt like he owed the Bush family big time for bailing out AIG to be stupid enough to give Jeb $10 million at this point.

Talk about throwing good money after bad.....

Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #973 on: January 15, 2016, 03:54:38 PM »
I thought Bush did well when he challenged Trump to "change his mind" on a blanket Muslim moratorium", but although he is done for he won't go.

Kasich-- done for, time to go though he looks to do well enough in NH that he won't.

Dr. Ben:  I continue to like and respect him him and think he has many admirable qualities that would serve him well, but this is simply a bridge too far for him.  Time to go.

Christie:  A good candidate in many ways but , , ,

I very much liked Rubio's formulation of "If we can't figure out who you are you aren't getting in"; this is far defter than Trump's blanket moratorium.   I liked his articulation of strategy against Islamo fascism (Intel finds them, Military kills them, the captured go to Gitmo).  I VERY much liked his articulation that the EDC is not fit to be CiC for her mishandling of national secrets and for lying to the parents of the fallen of Benghazi.  He looked bad for his cheap shot attacks on Christie.  Attacked Cruz well on immigration but I felt a certain  :roll: because we have already been through this many times.  Of all the candidates, Rubio articulates and inspires best with the American Creed and this is something I believe to be quite important.  The timing of his attack on Cruz about votes against military spending (as predicted by me here yesterday) got vaporized in the aftermath of Christie's attack on squabbling senators (Cruz and Rubio)

Cruz, overall a very strong night (IIRC Frank Luntz called him the clear winner) but he got creamed on the NY values 911 counter riff from Trump for which he should have been ready and for which they were plenty of good rejoinders, but he certainly spanked Donald on the birther issue (breaking Donald's alpha aura for once), though not in a way sufficient to put it to bed I suspect.  Definite KO of the "secret Goldman Sachs loan" issue.   Likely to go over most people's heads, but he was quite strong on his tax policy and definitely bested Rubio there.  Very shrewd to take advantage of his opening statement to talk about our captured navy sailors and military strength.  I think it safe to say Rubio WILL be returning to his anti military spending votes.

Trump was Trump.  The tone of his NY 911 words was both effective on the issue in question with Cruz (which in point of fact was rather insignificant IMHO) but also in that he actually looked like a man of some emotional depth for a moment.


Crafty_Dog

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« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 08:53:15 PM by Crafty_Dog »

ccp

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #976 on: January 17, 2016, 05:31:24 AM »
I think Cruz would destroy Hillary in a debate.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #977 on: January 17, 2016, 07:53:52 AM »
I agree.

He really is as fg smart as people say IMHO.  I watched him the other night after the debate (i.e. after 150 seriously intense minutes) and engage with Frank Luntz's focus group on the Kelly files.  He engaged easily with the people and as things warmed he spoke with a flow of consciousness that really impressed me with his ability to keep track of various details, recognize the themes, and put them together in a coherent strategy.  He has what it takes to be a bloodhound of logic and lead the American people along Hillary's incredibly sneaky and disingenuous spoor to her pravda protected lair and drive her out of it and tree.

I like Marco Rubio A LOT, but in the last day or two I have whiffed a scent of "I wish he were a bit older and more seasoned".    I know something of the IQ that Cruz has rubbed elbows with for pretty much all of his adult life (e.g. clerking for the Chief Justice of the SCOTUS is a REALLY BIG FG DEAL and one operates in a truly extraordinary environment) and even the people there who loathe his views fear his intellect.

Watch those clips and IMHO you can see a man who planned to be where he is right now upon his arrival in the US Senate.  Appreciate the details of his defense of his loan from Goldman Sachs.    With little time on the Texas political scene (how much attention does Solicitor General get?) he took on a man worth over $200 who bankrolled his campaign with $25M of his own money.  To do this Ted (and his wife) bet pretty much EVERYTHING they had.  (and yes Rubio did something similar against Crist).   His willingness to piss off pretty much the entirety of Washington was purposeful and shows no little testicular fortitude.

For all the extremist bomb thrower tropes thrown at him rattle him not at all.  Watch him on Leno.  He does not rattle.  He calmly gives Jay room and then calmly earns the audience's respect with his calm, articulate, and reasoned manner.



DougMacG

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #979 on: January 17, 2016, 08:46:27 PM »
I have been traveling, crossed paths with DT in IA, now at the Top of the Rockies mostly out of my internet range.  Meanwhile you guys went all Cruz on me...

These were some comments I typed after the debate, a lttle dated at this point:

I listened to most of it.  A good night for each in his own way.  (Some of Crafty's comments helped fill the gaps of what I missed at the beginning.)

First, I still see Kasich, Fiorina and Carson as good potential VP picks.  

It seems to me that Christie's pretend tough guy demeanor is a space already occupied by Trump.  Christie would need Rick Perry's economic record to match his big talk, and he doesn't have that.

The top 3 all did what they needed to stay top 3 in that order, Trump, Cruz, Rubio, for now, though seeds are planted already that we may notice later if/when things begin shifting.

Cruz looked good, a lot of conservatives think he won.

Cruz has answered the million dollar loan question from Goldman Sachs question perfectly but he is losing at any moment where that is the topic.  Most of us don't have an open million in a stock account or make a million combined a year.  

Trump was masterful with his defense of the people during 9/11 - but that wasn't the question.  Collectively NY politics is far left.  The easy turnaround by Trump  exposes something in Cruz; he has a sort of code speech to conservatives similar to what liberals have talking to their own.  He says to a SC crowd, you know what I mean by NY politics.  They do and I know what he means, but that is code aimed at conservatives.  Same with his attack Rubio by linking him over and over with Schumer.  That rings the bell for hard core conservatives, but they already know that about Rubio and it doesn't reach any further to people want one side to try to reach agreements with the other side.  What is missing is to fully explain why our way is better, not just to point out the divide. 

Cruz's short history of standing alone on principle displays some good character qualities, but not leadership when the other lawmakers don't follow.

The VAT tax argument is important to me.  Rubio asked my question about it.  What is it that stops some future leftist President of Congress (certain to eventually follow) from raising the VAT tax rate way up in the future once it is in place?  The answer is nothing stops them and they will do exactly that for sure.   Look at their history; look at their intentions. Cruz could not and did not answer that (so now I pass it to Crafty).  Rubio effectively invoked Pres Reagan for opposing the VAT along with his reasons to oppose it.  Cruz noted that Art Laffer endorses it.  Laffer is right; this would be great for growth if it were enacted, but that is not to say that it is politically realistic, or if it was, wise to do knowing your opponents will most certainly raise the rates up in the future.  Cruz's plan as it sits raises too little revenue even under dynamic scoring to get passed the deficit hawks, without an equally bold set of spending cuts.  Gutting defense doesn't get you there either.  Liberals aren't going to go along with repealing those other taxes.  What is it in our politics that makes people think we are about to lower the top marginal income tax rate to 10% and let people making a billion a year keep 90%.  This isn't the time in the political process to pose wouldn't it be great ideas.  We are about to make a decision that affects us for the rest of our lives.  What have we seen in politics that makes us think if Ted Cruz proposes even R's will get behind.  What bill of his has he had a moderate sign on with that makes us think this is possible?  I haven't seen it.  Instead the table is set for Hillary or the Dem nominee to correctly point out huge tax cuts for the rich. I don't mind that criticism if he is going to win the argument but nothing in recent political history indicates that is the case.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 08:59:51 PM by DougMacG »

G M

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ccp

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Dem (darn) debate
« Reply #981 on: January 18, 2016, 04:26:47 AM »
Did you notice how many bathroom breaks, ah, oh, I mean, commercial, breaks there were?

ccp

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Christie loose with the facts
« Reply #982 on: January 18, 2016, 05:04:51 AM »
As noted before i don't follow state or local politics, the plan is to get the hell out of this state (like half of the people who live here) as soon as possible.  The only thing I can say for certain is that I think he has held the line on taxes.   Once he is gone the frothing at the mouths Democrats, and public and private unions will be hitting the election cycle like a D day invasion with there marines attacking the entire state from all fronts, land, air, and sea/

That all said this sounds more like it.  I don't recall Christy being a big backer of gun rights:

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/christie-lied-record-national/2016/01/17/id/709837/
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 10:04:46 AM by Crafty_Dog »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #983 on: January 18, 2016, 03:40:02 PM »
Any post debate polls?

DDF

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #984 on: January 18, 2016, 07:16:47 PM »
Any post debate polls?

I looked today. All I found were dated the 16th.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #985 on: January 19, 2016, 10:54:50 AM »


G M

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #987 on: January 19, 2016, 12:52:10 PM »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #988 on: January 20, 2016, 02:19:29 PM »
If Hillary Loses
By DICK MORRIS
Published on TheHill.com on January 19, 2016
The contrast between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, startlingly evident in their debate Sunday night, could not be clearer. While devotees of the establishment can tell themselves that Clinton held her own, it is clear she did not.

Sanders had all the passion, anger, force and emotion on his side, and the best Clinton could do was to try to keep it in the park as her rival hit ball after ball. Since primaries are about motivation in getting out the vote, the Vermont senator has it all over Clinton.

So what happens if she:

(a) loses Iowa;

(b) loses New Hampshire;

(c) falls behind Sanders in the national polls and Donald Trump or Ted Cruz in the head-to-heads?

The Democratic howls of concern will be deafening. "She's blowing it again," will be the least of what they will say. Democrats will feel trapped with a candidate who is showing before their eyes that she cannot even win a primary, much less a general election.

Some will worry that Sanders, should he be nominated, will be as weak a candidate as George McGovern was in 1972 or Barry Goldwater proved to be in 1964. Others will think that Clinton might skate through with the aid of superdelegates, setting up a replay of 1968 with Sanders winning the primaries and the party bosses nominating Clinton.

All Democrats will be looking frantically for a way out.

Meanwhile, the FBI will amass evidence that the former secretary of State acted illegally in sending or receiving classified material over a non-secure email server. And it will investigate the uncomfortably close nexus between donations to the Clinton Foundation, speaking fees to the Clintons and State Department actions.

In the end, the decision as to whether to indict a presidential candidate in the middle of an election will rest with the Justice Department and, indirectly, with the president.

If Clinton is cruising to the nomination, winning the primaries and running well against her likely Republican opponent, they will likely decide that indicting her would be an undue interference with the political process.

But if Sanders does his job and the race is close and Clinton is behind her general election challenger, then all bets are off.

There will be a frantic scramble to head off the certain defeat that would come either through nominating Bernie Sanders or a badly beaten up Hillary Clinton. Because of the lateness of the hour, no new candidate could qualify delegates to form slates in the primary states. The pressure will grow on Clinton to withdraw and release her delegate slates to another candidate: Joe Biden. Should she refuse, the chances of her indictment -- or the threat of it -- might increase.

The party could try to get Martin O'Malley to turn his delegates into Biden slates. Or the Democrats could do worse than to nominate O'Malley.

All is possible in a post-Clinton world.

To make matters worse for Clinton, the former secretary stupidly boxed herself in on ObamaCare. Trying to frame Sanders's "Medicare for All" alternative as "starting over," she pleaded for staying with ObamaCare rather than making a new departure. In doing so, she opened herself up to an attack on the issue.

Now, anyone who feels that premiums are too high, deductibles too large and co-payments too expensive -- despite their overall support for the program -- has to see Sanders as offering a hope of improvement and Clinton as being wed to the status quo. Her argument -- that we should build on ObamaCare rather than start over -- is the kind of inside-the-Beltway rationalization that works well with people who are not in trouble or in pain.

The future is bleak for Mrs. Clinton.

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ccp

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #990 on: January 20, 2016, 04:18:01 PM »
She must have some sort of personality disorder.

Narcissistic?

Psychopathic?

I am not sure but she ain't normal.

I remember reading a book on psychopaths.  One trait they have is they lie without any conscience and are perfectly comfortable lying even when everyone in the room knows they are lying and they know everyone knows they are lying.  They just will not stop.

This is her.

Well, we have said before she will have to be literally dragged out of the race kicking and screaming like a banshi before she will get off the damn stage.

But to Crafty's point - even CNN is now reporting this.   :-D :-o  The signs are growing that this may FINALLY get to big for even the worst Democrat hacks to ignore.

There is a God who is watching afterall  :-D

DDF

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #991 on: January 20, 2016, 04:22:18 PM »
Clinton with this, and Sanders with "I believe in redistribution," even the most liberal of voters won't be keen on voting for Sanders, because they don't believe in wealth redistribution so much that they want to pay for it themselves....

The Republicans are going to have a banner year if they can get Trump followers on board.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #992 on: January 20, 2016, 04:28:11 PM »
Gutfield riffed today about Bill servicing the females and Hillary' server and the emails , , , or something like that  :lol:

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #993 on: January 20, 2016, 05:25:42 PM »
ccp:  ... psychopaths.  One trait they have is they lie without any conscience and are perfectly comfortable lying even when everyone in the room knows they are lying and they know everyone knows they are lying.  They just will not stop.  This is her.


That is why I cringed when there was talk by the Benghazi victims' families that she should take a lie detector test about what she said / didn't say to them.  I don't think psychopaths or pathological liars are affected by lying.  To them it's just breathing.

DougMacG

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Re: 2016 Presidential, Jan 2016
« Reply #994 on: January 21, 2016, 09:21:29 AM »
Trump has a huge GOP lead in Florida among many other places. (Mentioned in the Rubio thread)

Cruz is having problems gaining traction on Trump but has solidified second place.  The strange birther charge slowed him and Trump's Sarah Palin endorsement cuts right into Cruz's presumed strength.  (There is no prize for second place.)

Rubio is still 3rd nationally, not gaining at all, staying relevant but ONLY if he can make a move up at some point, meaning soon.

Rubio still has the best general election matchup numbers of any of them.  
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_presidential_race.html
Why does that not seem to matter to anyone / everyone conservative who wants to win?  I don't know.  Hard to say it is still too early for polls to matter.

Trump trails commie-socialist Sanders by 15 points!  http://www.scribd.com/doc/295919133/NBC-WSJ-January-Poll  So stay on the current path and we can say about the leftist Obama years, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

Bush, Christie, Kasich and Fiorina have GOP still polling nationally at 2.4 - 4.8%.  Huckabee, Paul and Santorum even less. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_republican_presidential_nomination-3823.html  
Make a plan to win (and you didn't), so get out of the way.  Now!  Each one hates the idea of a Trump nomination or Presidency and yet everything they are doing is helping him by diluting the rest of the field.  If this race comes down to Trump, Cruz, Rubio, let's clear the field and see how that goes.

My advice to Trump supporters.  Stay with him right up until voting time if you believe he is the one with the strength to make a difference and make America great again.  But if you don't see him as the general election winner at primary voting time, jump ship or cause the end of this once great nation under Bernie the Socialist or equivalent.

My advice to Cruz supporters, I hear you.  Show your support now for the most conservative candidate running, but at voting time switch to the most conservative candidate who can win.  If that is Cruz, fine.  But as I questioned yesterday, when was the last time a candidate ran on a platform of conservative purity and won, never?

The question is not who is most conservative, the question for conservatives is, who can bring the most people over to our side?

Or else, everybody, just hold your stubborn positions and watch America elect and spiral down European failed socialism or worse!  Conservative and Republican voters aren't known for being either great strategists or communicators against their leftist rivals.  Note who has been winning and which direction we have been heading for most of the last half century.

My two cents.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 09:28:50 AM by DougMacG »

ccp

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #995 on: January 21, 2016, 09:42:59 AM »
"Why does that not seem to matter to anyone / everyone conservative who wants to win?  I don't know.  Hard to say it is still too early for polls to matter.

Trump trails commie-socialist Sanders by 15 points!"

Good questions.  I can only guess that people feel that when Trump has a chance to go up directly against the (C)rat he will punish her.

The elites in Davos are aghast at Trump but not Sanders only makes me want to vote more for Trump frankly.

I don't believe the polls anyway that Sanders is so ahead of Trump.  Just not true.  No way.

Got to laugh when we here the DESPERATE Clinton mob calling Bern a socialist.  Why just recently they blew those names off.  Slutty Schultz couldn't even tell Chris Matthews, no less, the difference between a Dem and a Socialist.  Even Hillary is on record fo zipping her mouth at the question.  The Clintons are really clowns.  Unfortunately so many fall for their crap.




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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #996 on: January 21, 2016, 05:08:38 PM »
"I don't believe the polls anyway that Sanders is so ahead (15 points) of Trump.  Just not true.  No way."


Agree.  Trump only trailed Sanders by 13% in the next most recent one.  (

I don't fully believe things like that either, but their is some truth to the preponderance of the polls.

The larger point is that while consistently leading the Republicans, DT consistently matches up the worst in the general election.  

Yes that could change.  It could get worse.

My harping point is that there needs to be a big asterisk every time they say he is leading in the polls.  He is leading us into disaster - if you believe the polls, at least up until now.

People on the right hate the entire George W Bush Presidency because he did some things right and some things wrong.  Likewise for Trump; you can see it already.  His supporters are right, he will be great on certain things.  He will also be horrible on other things if you take him at his word, Supreme Court Justices and worldwide trade wars if you take him at his word, and if you are a Republican or an American, he will be doing those things and saying all those things in our name.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 05:22:21 PM by DougMacG »

Crafty_Dog

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #997 on: January 21, 2016, 06:29:21 PM »
Again I say it-- Rubio misses a great opportunity by failing to call himself the front runner.

IMO Trump is truly sliming Cruz on the loans, which WERE reported, only not to all the necessary bureaucracies, and on the birther issue. Trump goes pure cronyism on the ethanol while Cruz stands true.  Trump does a driveby with his tax proposal, not defending it after releasing it while Cruz has Art Laffer design his and he explains and defends it well.  Trump supported TARP.  Cruz did not.  Cruz makes all the right enemies by standing up to the Washington Cartel only to have Trump criticize him for "not getting along".  Are you kidding me?!?

I sent Cruz $50 today, my biggest donation to anyone yet.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 06:31:03 PM by Crafty_Dog »

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Re: 2016 Presidential
« Reply #998 on: January 22, 2016, 09:11:39 AM »
Threshold Requirements Will Force A Two-Way GOP Race By March 1ST
By DICK MORRIS
Published on DickMorris.com on January 22, 2016
When will some of the dozen or so Republican candidates withdraw so we can focus on a two-way race and make a clear decision?

Will Rubio, Kasich, Bush, Christie, Carson, Fiorina, Huckabee, Paul, Santorum et al ever get the message and pull out?

They won't have to. The party rules will force them out, de facto, on March 1st.

On that date, 14 states will select their delegates to the national convention. A total of 701 delegates will be selected, more than two-thirds of the total needed to win the nomination. But, of these, 388 will be awarded by proportional representation with a minimum threshold to qualify for delegates. To have a shot at 298 of these delegates (including Texas' 152) a candidate will need to win at least 20 percent of the vote. Anyone falling short of that total won't get in on splitting the delegates by proportional representation.

So, if Trump gets, for example, 35 percent in a given state and Cruz gets 30 percent, they will divide the delegates proportionately. But if Rubio, Bush, Paul, Kasich, Christie and the others get less than 20 percent of the vote each, they will get no delegates at all. There is little chance of the field whittling down sufficiently for any of these candidates to break the 20 percent threshold, and certainly it would be impossible for more than one to do so.

Thus, de facto, the GOP nomination process will be a two-way race after March 1. Like a freeway that merges from a dozen lanes to two, there will be a mess of traffic and angry campaign managers, but the process is inexorable.

In Texas, there is a 20 percent threshold for the statewide at large delegates and a separate 20 percent threshold for each congressional district's delegates.

Another 90 delegates will be selected on March 1 by states with either a 15 percent or a 13 percent threshold, making a two-way race in these states somewhat likely.

On March 5 and March 8, 93 more delegates will be selected in 20 percent threshold states and another 81 from 15 percent threshold states.

So, by March 8, 562 delegates will have been chosen by proportional representation from states with 15 percent or 20 percent threshold requirements -- for all practical purposes high enough to keep all but two candidates out.

Over the same period, 370 delegates will be selected in states with low or no thresholds. There would be no bar to Rubio, Bush, Kasich, Christie or Paul getting at least a slice of these delegates, but so will Trump and Cruz. Combined, the Trump and Cruz vote totals from these states and from the high threshold states will likely be so high that the small number of delegates these candidates might win in low or no threshold states will not matter much in the final outcome.

And then come the winner take all primaries beginning with Florida, Missouri, and Ohio on March 15th. These will deal the final deathblow to all other candidates (especially to Bush and Rubio should they lose Florida).

A by-product of forcing a two-way race at the outset is that the nominee will likely be known by March 16th. We will have a pretty clear idea of who will win by then.