Author Topic: Israel, and its neighbors  (Read 980967 times)

ccp

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Netanyahu in hospital
« Reply #2600 on: July 15, 2023, 08:37:12 AM »
sounds serious heart condition

hope they do tox screen for poisons and have armed guards nearby at all times :

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-750170

fingers crossed in NJ

 :cry:

ccp

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Ben Shapiro on Netanyahu's reforms
« Reply #2601 on: July 29, 2023, 07:25:22 AM »
https://www.creators.com/read/ben-shapiro/07/23/no-israel-is-not-in-existential-danger-of-civil-war

"Israel will not collapse. It will not break into civil war. It will continue to be a fractious and chaotic country filled with highly opinionated people who fight with each other, protest each other, argue with each other — and then share arak and chamin and cholent and falafel."

Same as here except the last part - the Jewish liberals here are unforgiving .

Aa far as I can tell the anti - Netanyahu sentiment of the WH administrations started with the great snake - Obama

ccp

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2602 on: September 18, 2023, 08:38:01 AM »
speaking of Bibi

I finished Doug Schoen's book - worth the read

He has done consulting work with Bibi, Rabin, and Peres

He had fine things to say about Rabin and Perez but not about Bibi.

States since circa 1970 since of all the consultations he has helped for people running for positions in politics Bibi was the only one who stiffed him

States he was consulted during the Obama administration .  Bibi wanted his opinion on whether he thought it was a good idea to address Congress in person against the wishes of the Bama administration which was clearly anti - Bibi

He went to Israel and recommended that he should address Congress and get his point of view out there.
Bibi did do that . Of course not clear if he would have anyway regardless of what Doug recommended.

But what was sad to hear is he stated he never got paid for his advice , his travel , hotel , plane fair .  He was stiffed.
He states he asked other Israelis about this and the response was , "well that is Bibi"

Sorry to hear this  because I appreciate Bibi overall.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2603 on: September 18, 2023, 03:45:27 PM »
Apparently Bibi triggers strong pro and anti views in Israel, but this American Jew thinks he does a fine job of communicating with the American people.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2604 on: October 07, 2023, 01:19:41 AM »
Hamas starts war with Israel?!?

DougMacG

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2605 on: October 07, 2023, 05:41:23 AM »
Hamas starts war with Israel?!?

Hamas plus Hezbullah?

Early reports aren't always the most accurate
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/10/war-in-the-middle-east.php

Netanyahu says we are at war. Europe says Israel has right to defend itself.
US says use restraint.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2606 on: October 07, 2023, 06:58:20 AM »
BTW, see my post of yesterday in the Saudi thread-- a lot of analysis there relevant to here.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2607 on: October 07, 2023, 07:14:53 AM »

ya

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2608 on: October 07, 2023, 07:44:22 AM »
Keep track of the world responses




ccp

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Yum Kippur war Oct 6 - 25, 1973
« Reply #2609 on: October 07, 2023, 01:48:05 PM »

Crafty_Dog

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VDH:
« Reply #2610 on: October 08, 2023, 06:43:28 AM »
Victor Davis Hanson
@VDHanson
A 50th Anniversary War?

Why did Hamas stage a long-planned, carefully executed and multifaceted attack on Israeli towns, soldiers, and civilians—one designed to instill terror by executing noncombatants, taking hostages, and desecrating the bodies of the dead?

And how were the killers able to enter Israeli proper in enough numbers to kill what could be hundreds and perhaps eventually wound what could be thousands?

a) Ostensibly, radical Palestinians wanted to stop any rumored rapprochement between the Gulf monarchies—the traditional source of much of their cash—and Israel, by forcing the issue of Arab solidarity in times of “war”, especially through waging a gruesome attack aimed at civilians and encompassing executions and hostage taking. Iran likely was the driving force to prompt the war—given its greatest fear is a Sunni Arab-Israeli rapprochement.

b)  Arab forces have had only success against Israel through surprise attacks during Israeli holidays, as in the Yom Kippur War (i.e., was it any accident that the present attack began 50-years almost to the day after the October 6, 1973 beginning of the Yom Kippur War?). And so they struck again this Saturday during Simchat Torah, coming at the end of a weeklong Jewish celebration of Sukkot—in hopes that others will join in as happened in 1973. (So much for the Arab warnings not for Westerners to conduct war during Ramadan).

c) Hamas may have reckoned that recent Israeli turmoil and mass leftist street protests over proposed reforms of the Israeli Supreme Court had led to permanent internal divisions and thus a climate of domestic distraction if not an erosion of deterrence.

But, more importantly, in a larger sense the Biden administration has contributed both to the notion that Hamas was a legitimate Middle East player, and to the perception that the U.S. was backing away from its traditional support for Israel—to the delight of Hamas—based on the following inexplicable policies:

1) In February Secretary of State Blinken had bragged that not only had the Biden administration resumed massive aid to the PLA cancelled by Trump, but cumulatively had transferred $1 billion—even as Palestinian authorities bragged that they would continue to pay bounties to the families of “martyrs” (i.e., those killed while conducting terrorists attacks against Israel).

And millions of American dollars also went into Gaza, run by Hamas—despite the Biden administration’s efforts to keep mostly quiet the resumption of such inexplicable support. In this regard, note the current shameful State-Department (“U.S. Office of Palestinian Affairs”) website news release that was posted after today’s attack. It ended with this quite embarrassing, morally equivalent admonition:

“We urged all sides to refrain from violence and retaliatory attacks. Terror and violence solve nothing.”

"All sides?" "Refrain from retaliatory attacks?”

So Israel is the moral equivalent of terrorists executing civilians and brutalizing their corpses? And the IDF then is not supposed to retaliate against these killers?

This Biden State Department insanity cannot stand. So expect some apparatchik to take down this Munich-like posting as soon as possible.

2) The Biden administration had recently released some $6 billion to Iran through a prison swap deal that saw South Korea hand over embargoed Iranian money to Qatar—despite Tehran’s  increased anti-Israeli rhetoric and its loud brag about the escalation. We should assume money for rockets (Hamas claims they have launched 5,000, and have received 100,000 of them via the Damascus airport) and weapons in general for Hamas were supplied by Iran, which again is likely the chief catalyst for this surprise attack.

3) Almost immediately, after his inauguration Biden mobilized to resume the bankrupt Iran deal. And in unhinged fashion he appointed the anti-Israeli bigot, pro-Iranian journalist Robert Malley as America’s chief negotiator. Note that Malley is now under FBI investigation for security breaches, involving disclosing classified U.S. documents and also for allegedly helping pro-Iranian activists and propagandists land influential billets inside the U.S. government.

In short, there was a general Hamas and Iranian perception that the Biden administration had resumed the discredited Obama madness of empowering Iran, Hezbollah, and Hamas. This discredited agenda was to “balance” the power of Israel and the moderate Arab Gulf governments to achieve “creative tension”, exacerbated by Biden’s loathing of the government of Benjamín Netanyahu (who has been snubbed by Biden and never invited for an official visit).

Note as well that the Biden administration has siphoned off key weapons and munitions from stockpiles inside Israel to transfer them to Ukraine. The so-called “War Reserve Ammunition—Israel" is all but depleted of just the sorts of weapons needed in the present crisis.

In this regard is there not a pattern here?

Upon the ascension of Biden and his woke military agendas, we saw the following: the complete humiliation of the U.S. in Kabul in its most shameful flight in 50 years and greatest abandonment of equipment in its history; followed by Vladimir Putin’s opportunistic invasion of Ukraine; followed by China’s new belligerence and escalating threats to Taiwan; followed by Turkey’s new de facto alliance with Russia and recent drone encounter with the U.S. air force in Syria; followed by the Hamas/Iranian inspired attack on Israel—with more to come unfortunately.

And will Biden finally get the message from the attacks on the Ukraine and Israeli borders, that borders matter and we too are being invaded, with the encouragement of the Mexican government and to the advantage of the cartels whose fentanyl exports kills 100,000 Americans a year?

What to expect in Israel?

Expect the following: the usual Hamas/terrorist selling and/or execution of Israeli hostages, the use of Israeli hostages as “human shields” in Gaza,  the bargaining/sale of the remains of Israeli dead, occasional killings of Jews inside Israel by Arabs who falsely believe there will be a winning Middle East-wide existential war against Israel. And finally, a devastating Israeli counter-response that will eventually earn a U.S. rebuke.

What should the U.S. instead do?

It should quit talking to Iran and restore full sanctions against it. It should cut off all aid immediately to all the Palestinians. It should undertake a 1973-like massive arms lift of key munitions to Israel and warn Iran, Syria, Hezbollah and others in the Middle East not to intervene or else, given that Israel will need several weeks to deal with Hamas and Gaza. And if it shows any hesitation or weakness, other terrorist groups will opportunistically jump in.

ccp

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Blinken
« Reply #2611 on: October 08, 2023, 07:24:22 AM »
" In February Secretary of State Blinken had bragged that not only had the Biden administration resumed massive aid to the PLA cancelled by Trump, but cumulatively had transferred $1 billion—even as Palestinian authorities bragged that they would continue to pay bounties to the families of “martyrs” "

remember even the never Trump McCain called Blinken out - something like the least competent DoS official he could think of .

not only that he is corrupt as well as stupid.  intertwined with Univ of Penn for the Biden "library " or whatever it was that probably helped bribe Biden for his job.

maybe some of the liberal Jews will actually get a wake up call. not holding my breath . they are probably already figuring ways to shyster out of

 their responsibility for this.

I say GO BIBI!  Who would Israaeli's rather have as PM now - a Blinken fool or Bibi?

 :wink:

ccp

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2612 on: October 08, 2023, 07:45:57 AM »
christie

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/attack-on-israel-shows-irresponsibility-of-republicans-paralyzing-house-christie/ar-AA1hSwPH?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=4614ca596d5a40139ee79942fe2288ab&ei=14

"to serve as a "sounding board" to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to help him "think through the ramifications of every step they're going to take to defend themselves."

and of course while at it on Stephanapolous bash Rs.

"Christie went on to criticize the dysfunction in the U.S. House of Representatives"

from one narcissist to the next............


ya

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2613 on: October 08, 2023, 07:59:16 AM »
I think Ukr is done for, attention has shifted to Israel, giving the US a face saving exit from Ukr. If the Israel war goes ballistic with Hezbullah joining in....again the US will get involved,until the next war between China and Taiwan....

SWBrowne

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Our Steve Brown: Attacks send a message if we can read it.
« Reply #2614 on: October 08, 2023, 08:37:07 AM »
My column, just submitted.

Attacks send a message if we can read it
By Steve Browne

Israel is at war again and disturbing questions arise, more than we have answers for.
To begin with, why now?
The attacks took place a day after Biden released a bunch of money to Iran. Biden supporters rightfully point out the planning for the attacks took a lot longer than a day and suggest it’s because of Putin’s birthday or something.
Nonetheless it is not unreasonable to suppose the one had something to do with the other. Hamas doesn’t make a move without Iran’s say-so. Perhaps Iran was holding back till now lest it delay the release?
It’s worth noting the attacks came 50 years almost to the day after the October 6, 1973 surprise attacks that began the Yom Kippur War. Dates are important to the jihadists.
What’s the connection with Russia? Did Russia support this as a distraction from Ukraine? Do they hope for a strategic diversion? Is this the opening of another front in a wider war?
And how did Israeli intelligence not see this coming?
Is it possible preparations were made somewhere out of the theater of operations beyond Mossad’s area of activity? If so, under whose sponsorship?
The attackers came across the border on motorbikes, pickup trucks, and motorized parasails. That last has a dramatic effect beyond the merely practical. Is there a message there?
And why attacks of this kind with conspicuous atrocities?
They killed women and children hiding in their homes. They kidnapped civilians and took them back to Gaza. They paraded the naked body of a young woman around and made sure it was videoed. They showed a terrified mother with two redhead boys humiliated by their captors. They showed a terrified young woman tourist captured at a concert dragged by her hair into a vehicle to be taken to Gaza.
It's not just that they committed recognized war crimes, it’s that they made sure we saw them.
Preliminary photo collages of the missing show a preponderance of young women. What do they intend to do with them? Use them as human shields? Sell them back?
And what are they doing to them now? God help them, rape might be the best they could hope for.
We are dealing with people whose thought processes and world view are alien to us and too often we try to fit their actions into what makes sense to us, rather than try to figure out why it makes sense to them.
We could start by realizing that though these are military actions they do not have specifically military objectives. They gain no territory nor do they significantly impact Israel’s ability to wage war.
They may hope to provoke a response so violent it would bend world opinion in their direction, but those lines pro and contra Israel are already firmly drawn and not likely to change. And why would they make sure the world sees those horrific atrocities if that’s their goal?
After 9/11 the German composer Karl Stockhausen had an insight that repelled a great many people. He called it, “The greatest work of art of all time.”
I suggest if we can get past the shock, there is a point here.
What the jihadists are doing, is theater. The audience is both the West and their own people.
To Israel it’s a taunt, “You can’t protect your women!”
To their own a boast, “Look what the warriors of Allah can do with pure hearts and intentions!”
However this turns out I think it’s a new turn in the Long War, and it’s not just Israel in danger.







« Last Edit: October 08, 2023, 08:43:00 AM by Crafty_Dog »
"As weird as it's gotten, it still hasn't gotten weird enough for me."

ccp

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2615 on: October 08, 2023, 11:16:41 AM »
all great questions
waiting for answers

sometimes Jew haters just take pleasure in killing Jews
I am also thinking the worst - does Iran have nuclear device(s) and the will use the Israeli revenge as an excuse to use?

As John Bolton has said for yrs.

if you think Iran is a problem now can you imagine them with nucs.

OTOH Israel has enough nucs I think to eradicate the existence of Iran need be.

 :-o

« Last Edit: October 08, 2023, 11:18:35 AM by ccp »

ccp

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2nd post
« Reply #2616 on: October 08, 2023, 11:24:27 AM »
after some more thought
some in the media are thinking this is to get the Saudis and others to stop working towards "understandings" relations with Israel.

I note SA came out on side of Palestinians (the fault lies with Israel)

Certainly some Saudis support this

Perhaps strategy by Iran again to dampen any agreements with Israel?

Perhaps another manifestation of the Jihad?  or another caliphate?

ccp

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3rd post
« Reply #2617 on: October 08, 2023, 11:28:49 AM »
this is huge move :

sending Gerald Ford to Mediterranean

gutsy move
and glad to see but with substantial risk of worsening and not improving

More going on than us plebes are privy to?



ya

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2618 on: October 08, 2023, 12:14:35 PM »
Will the US get involved and bomb Iran. Would solve the Iranian nuke issue and also Iranian support to Russia ?. This whole Hamas entry into Israel is quite fishy..too many loose ends and a lot of people sleeping. Does not add up.

Crafty_Dog

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George Friedman
« Reply #2619 on: October 08, 2023, 12:46:18 PM »
October 8, 2023
View On Website
Open as PDF

    
The Hamas-Israel War
By: George Friedman
Editor's note: This is a special Sunday report on Hamas' surprise attack on Israel and the Israeli response.

Hamas fighters launched a major attack on Israel on Saturday morning. Hamas is an Islamic group with close ties to Iran, which is said to be its main source of funding. This differentiates it from Fatah, which is supported by Egypt, is more secular in nature, and apparently was not involved in the attack. The bulk of Arab countries are hostile to Iran and therefore won’t support Hamas, and negotiations between Saudi Arabia and Israel to normalize relations are underway. Egypt is hostile to Hamas even though the latter dominates Gaza. In 2008, when Hamas launched rockets into Israel from Gaza, Republicans claimed that American aid money had been released to Hamas just prior to the attack. Similar claims have already been made against the Biden administration over funds it released to Iran as part of a prisoner swap.

This is a small fraction of the complexity of the Middle East and the politics involved in this weekend's events. This was not a spontaneous attack but a vastly complex operation, carefully coordinating air and rocket attacks, naval landings and large-scale infantry assaults.

Why was it carried out now? I can only speculate that Iran was observing increasing cooperation with Israel among Arab countries like Saudi Arabia and was concerned that it would be excluded from the emerging system. Tensions between Arab Sunnis and Iranian Shiites – a fundamental split in Islam – are substantial, and the morphing Arab relationship with Israel had to be disrupted. Hence the attack, under the assumption that a brutal Israeli response was inevitable along with U.S. aid to Israel, which would shame the Arabs. It is undoubtedly much more complex than this, and many Arab Sunnis want nothing to do with normalization with Israel, but this is a reasonable explanation of why the attack had to happen now.

The attack was designed to discourage a counterattack. Its focus, other than capturing objectives, was capturing people, especially children. The assumption is that the Israelis would not strike back and risk killing Israeli hostages. The Israelis have claimed that Hamas chained Israeli children to stakes in areas where an attack would likely take place. Capturing and planting children is unsavory but effective.

Before we discuss Israel’s response, we must consider Israeli intelligence, vaunted as world-class but having experienced its largest failure since almost exactly 50 years ago, when Israel was simultaneously and surprisingly attacked by the Egyptian army from the Suez Canal and the Syrian army from the Golan Heights. Those attacks were designed to shock the Israelis and force them into completely unplanned action to split their forces and weaken their ability to resist the attacks.

The attacks were resisted and the counterattacks ultimately succeeded, but the outcome was touch and go. Israel’s fighting forces recovered rapidly from the intelligence failure to see the threat. In fact, Israeli intelligence saw much of the planning and preparation for the attack – which required many meetings and electronic communications that were intercepted. The Israelis also captured photographs of massing tanks, and human intelligence picked up growing activity and excitement at airfields. But the Israelis failed to understand what simultaneous activity in Egypt and Syria might mean.

The main breakdown was the analysts. Analysts must absorb all the data to draw a conclusion. In many cases, however, intelligence organizations develop an analysis originally based on fact but fail to update it as new, contradictory facts flow in. The analysis becomes sacred, and the forecast goes unchanged. In 1973, the Egyptians and Syrians were obviously preparing for something, but the Israelis’ existing concept – which said neither would launch a war with their current equipment and training – governed their understanding of events. Every intelligence organization battles its concepts. Few succeed. In intelligence, humans’ love of stability is deadly.

It seems that the concept this time was that Hamas and especially its Iranian benefactors were caught up in negotiations with various powers and seeking to enter into profitable relations leveraged by the Iranian nuclear program. Obviously, this analysis was wrong, and I wonder whether some shred of intelligence or the concept drove the analysts. I suspect the latter but don’t know, as Israel’s official position is that it will examine the intelligence failure. I doubt it will publish a full report. In the meantime, the current team stays in place. There is a lot of intelligence to process, and this may be a long war, but that’s their call. Like all wars, this is an intelligence war – intelligence deploys the troops.

I will end with the obvious question: Did Russia trigger this to divert American attention from Ukraine? My guess is no. Russia is tangled with many countries, like Saudi Arabia, that did not want this war. At any rate, starting a war on the assumption the U.S. will be diverted could blow up in Russia’s face, and its face is beat up enough.


ccp

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funny
« Reply #2621 on: October 08, 2023, 02:58:57 PM »

I was just reading up on the 1973 war.
Deciding whether to see the movie:

https://www.fandango.com/golda-2023-232617/movie-overview

She was heavily blamed for the intelligence failure during that war.
The  movie reviews are mixed so I decided to wait till movie comes out on cable .

ccp

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2622 on: October 08, 2023, 03:05:22 PM »
anti semites in Congress already trying to set up the blame Israel game

calling for "de-escalation "

after Israelis murdered kidnapped likely raped and used as human shields.

so when Israel does come back hard they can scream bloody murder etc

https://dailycaller.com/2023/10/08/squad-democrats-weigh-in-hamas-terrorists-murder-hundreds-israel/

will the media fall for this - again.

ya

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2623 on: October 08, 2023, 07:52:29 PM »

ccp

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interview with Michael Oren
« Reply #2624 on: October 09, 2023, 07:08:26 AM »
Bari Weiss podcast:

53 minutes long but has a lot of insight :

https://www.honestlypod.com/podcast/episode/20ca69c5/war-in-israel-michael-oren-explains-how-evil-infiltrated-the-country

On Michael Oren who you have probably seen on TV:

Michael Bornstein Oren is an American-born Israeli historian, author, politician, former ambassador to the United States (2009–2013), former member of the Knesset for the Kulanu party and a former Deputy Minister in the Prime Minister’s Office 1. He has written books, articles, and essays on Middle Eastern history, and is the author of the New York Times best-selling Ally: My Journey Across the American-Israeli Divide, Power, Faith and Fantasy, and Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East 12. Oren has taught at Harvard, Yale, and Georgetown universities in the United States and at Ben-Gurion and Hebrew universities in Israel 1. He was a Distinguished Fellow at the Shalem Center in Jerusalem and a contributing editor to The New Republic 1. Oren won two gold medals and one silver medal at the 1977 Maccabiah Games in rowing

At end of interview, he pointed out the hardest part of all this is he is in NJ while this is happening.
He could not explain the pain he felt knowing his children are sitting in bomb shelters in Israel while he is in NJ
He was going to catch a plane back in 4 hrs after the show and hoped he could get thru.


ccp

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Crafty_Dog

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Gatestone
« Reply #2626 on: October 10, 2023, 07:07:06 AM »

DougMacG

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2627 on: October 10, 2023, 08:07:10 AM »
https://freebeacon.com/columns/no-daylight/

Matthew Continetti, there can be no daylight between US and Israel.  Opposite of Obama Biden policy.

Ukraine war, (and this one?) (and the upcoming war in Taiwan?)
"caused by a collapse of deterrence".

DougMacG

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Re: Gatestone
« Reply #2628 on: October 10, 2023, 08:21:33 AM »
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/20033/palestinian-war-on-israel

The prominence of the Hamas wing of our ruling Democratic Party is part of the collapse of deterrence.

Almost half of the Democratic Party either want a terrorist state next to Israel, or they are deniers of terror.

Kind of hard to deny that now.

ccp

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the 20 Dem Senators & letter sent to Biden
« Reply #2629 on: October 10, 2023, 09:31:44 AM »
with regards to CD post # 2626 earlier today

here is the letter and signatories to Biden requesting regarding Saudi - US - Israel negotiations:

https://www.murphy.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/saudi-israel_normalization_letter.pdf

Crafty_Dog

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WSJ: Hamas's al-Aqsa Lie
« Reply #2630 on: October 10, 2023, 02:24:42 PM »
Hamas’s al-Aqsa Lie Has a Long and Disgraceful History
The pro-Nazi mufti of Jerusalem first accused the Jews of targeting the Muslim holy site.
By Douglas J. Feith
Oct. 9, 2023 2:34 pm ET


Most of the coverage of the Hamas-Israel war omits the reason for Hamas’s attack. Reports that do address the question often cite the official Hamas explanation that Israel is plotting to destroy the al-Aqsa Mosque on Jerusalem’s Temple Mount. Hamas calls this war “Operation al-Aqsa Deluge.” But that justification is a fraud. The mosque is in no danger, and Hamas isn’t defending any Muslim holy site. The attack is offensive. Hamas wants to torture and kill Israelis in hopes of triggering mass uprisings by Muslims and perhaps spurring a larger war that might wound and isolate Israel, with the ultimate aim of destroying the Jewish state.


The accusation that the Jews are plotting against al-Aqsa was concocted a century ago by Haj Amin al-Husseini (1897-1974), the predominant political leader of the Palestinian Arabs from the 1920s through World War II and beyond.

Haj Amin, an Islamist radical from a notable Jerusalem clan, became a significant figure at age 24 when a British official appointed him mufti of Jerusalem, a high religious office. Britain made the appointment because it conquered much of the Near East—including Palestine—in World War I, after the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire sided with the Germans. The British victory ended 400 years of Turkish rule.

The Arab-Jewish conflict arose from the peace settlement after the war, which put the approximately 19 million Arabs of the Near East on the path to sovereignty over 99% of the region’s territory. The remaining less than 1% was Palestine west of the Jordan River, the bulk of the ancient Jewish homeland. It was put into a trust, called a “mandate,” for the benefit of world Jewry, which then constituted some 15 million people. Its small population of Arabs—600,000 or so—naturally preferred to remain the majority, like Arabs in the rest of the Near East. The Jewish people, however, would then have had to live as a stateless and vulnerable minority everywhere, and enjoy national self-determination nowhere.

Haj Amin was a violent enemy of Zionism. He had no interest in sharing the land, no sympathy for the Jews, and no interest in peace with them. He said Palestine belonged to the Arabs, period. While Zionist leaders time and again showed a willingness to accept the best deal offered to them—to set up a state in less territory than they believed they were entitled to—Haj Amin argued that national control of the land was a matter of honor and religious faith and therefore couldn’t be compromised.

Haj Amin expanded his power beyond the religious sphere by appealing to the public’s nationalist passions. He concentrated on making a white-hot issue out of Jerusalem. He claimed the Jews weren’t interested only in a national home but intended to wreck Islam’s holy sites on the Temple Mount and eliminate Arabs from the country. He repeated these accusations for decades, summarizing them in an article he published in the 1950s: There is “a plot devised long ago between the Jews and colonialism,” he wrote, and its aim is “to remove the indigenous Arabs from their homeland.”

This “plot also intends to terminally eliminate the Arab character, religion, holy places and places of worship in this country” and “to uproot its sons,” he wrote. “They also intend to rebuild the Jewish temple known as the Temple of Solomon on the current site of the blessed al-Aqsa Mosque.” He described “our battle with World Jewry” as “a question of life and death, a battle between two conflicting faiths, each of which can exist only on the ruins of the other.”

Haj Amin positioned himself as Islam’s champion in Jerusalem. He made a project of heightening the city’s importance in Muslim eyes and systematically—and falsely—alleging horrific Jewish threats. He succeeded in becoming the predominant Palestinian Arab political leader of the 1930s and ’40s. Britain expelled him from Palestine in the late 1930s for supporting terrorism. During World War II, he helped organize a pro-Nazi coup in Baghdad, which Britain helped suppress. Haj Amin then fled to Berlin, where he met Hitler, became a Nazi government guest, made pro-German wartime propaganda broadcasts, and helped the SS recruit Bosnian Muslims. Haj Amin’s embrace of Hitler discredited the Arab cause in Palestine, making Palestinian Arabs diplomatic pariahs for a quarter century after World War II.

Today, Hamas brazenly uses Haj Amin’s playbook. Its leaders hope to rally the Muslim world by repeating the mufti’s claims of Jewish threats to al-Aqsa. The allegations’ falsity should be obvious. Israel has controlled the Temple Mount for 50 years. It hasn’t destroyed the al-Aqsa Mosque or the Dome of the Rock. Regarding freedom of worship on the Temple Mount, it has shown extraordinary deference to Muslim interests and sensibilities. Muslims pray there without hindrance. Visits by Jews are allowed, but not in the main buildings, and Arab security personnel generally prohibit open prayer outdoors.

The alleged Jewish threat to al-Aqsa has been bogus since Haj Amin invented it. Hamas’s actual goal, also borrowed from the mufti, is to drive the Jews out of Israel—to win what he saw as “a battle between two conflicting faiths, each of which can exist only on the ruins of the other.”

In aligning itself with Haj Amin, Hamas conceives and fights its battle against Israel in such a way that diplomacy cannot resolve. Opposing all compromise, Hamas demands a fight to the death.

Mr. Feith is a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. He served as undersecretary of defense for policy, 2001-05.

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« Last Edit: October 11, 2023, 05:41:58 AM by DougMacG »

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2632 on: October 11, 2023, 07:10:30 AM »
You know I was looking for the videos of the IDF soldiers who it is claimed were beheaded.

No videos came up and one message came up that Israel took all these videos down.

Instead I got one video of a Mexican woman being tortured to death by a cartel
They handcuffed her hands behind her back . Hacked off one arm , then the other then as she screamed in pain and for her life then cut her throat.

I could not watch the rest of it, as they were getting ready to cut off her legs.

My point is Mexican cartels are committing atrocities like Hamas
right here just South of the border .

When I watched that all I could think about was , yes send in the military to wipe them out.
Easier said than done.

I felt the same way when W went in and took out Saddam.  The atrocities on the news were unbearable.

Yet W went in again , under the theory Iragis would be happy Saddam was taken out of power and instead we got war more death over 100K Iragis dead and more.

I just don't know......





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President Biden ties Israeli aid to restraint
« Reply #2633 on: October 11, 2023, 10:55:55 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PSmMgyq4aw

No mention of whether Ukraine aid has the same constraint.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2023, 11:03:52 AM by DougMacG »

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« Last Edit: October 11, 2023, 01:31:26 PM by DougMacG »


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Re: Israel, Ben Shapiro
« Reply #2636 on: October 11, 2023, 01:49:25 PM »


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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2638 on: October 11, 2023, 05:57:07 PM »
Respect for Glick.

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2639 on: October 11, 2023, 11:48:34 PM »
What Hamas Was Really Out To Do
This was not a terrorist attack; it was an annexation.
October 12, 2023 by Daniel Greenfield



[Make sure to read Daniel Greenfield’s contributions in Jamie Glazov’s new book: Barack Obama’s True Legacy: How He Transformed America.]

After the Hamas atrocities, experts scurried to explain why it had embraced “ISIS tactics”. Many saw the attacks purely as a way of sabotaging Israel’s talks with Saudi Arabia. Others argued that Hamas had tried for a small attack that escalated when Israel failed to promptly respond. Some express bafflement at what Hamas could have hoped to gain from such an attack.

The experts as usual are wrong because they don’t understand Hamas. And their ignorance stems from their inability to grasp Islamic terrorism because they don’t understand Islam.

Hamas, like the PLO and other Islamic terrorist groups, had spent much of its existence promising to do exactly what it tried to do, invade Israel, and seize and occupy its territory, taking Jewish villages and towns by stages over the years until one day besieging Jerusalem.

The Palestinian Authority, funded by American taxpayers, still airs Arafat’s old speeches in which he calls for “millions of martyrs marching to Jerusalem”. Americans and Israelis refused to take such rhetoric seriously. The cost was over 1,200 lives when Hamas tried to carry it out.

In operational terms, Hamas transitioned from a terrorist organization to a guerrilla force like ISIS or Hezbollah. Israel had been conditioned to expect small hit and run raids. It was not expecting an actual invasion. A hit and run raid with this many Jihadists makes no sense.

This wasn’t a hit and run raid.

Israeli military leaders are now saying that Hamas had not come just to attack, but to occupy and take over the Jewish communities that it invaded. It brought heavy firepower and some of its best trained Jihadists to not just attack, but to hold, fortify and annex those areas.

What the world witnessed was mostly the first stage of a three stage plan. In the second stage, Hamas Jihadists would have secured the captured communities while in the third stage, Hamas civilians, especially women and children, would have been brought in to occupy them. The Israeli military would have had to choose between firing on enemy civilians crossing the border or trying to fight Hamas once it was operating from behind its own human shields.

The captured villages would have been functionally annexed. Even if Israel had recaptured them, it would then have to expel the Muslim civilians now living inside them. Human rights groups and international pressure might have prevented Israel from taking such a step.

Fortunately Hamas never reached the third stage of its plan. Israel managed to destroy the invaders before they were able to fortify themselves and complete the second stage.

But there is every reason to think that Hamas or other Islamic jihadists will try it again.

The Hamas attacks were predictable when viewed in the context of Israel’s history and of the tactics of Islamic groups like ISIS, the Taliban, Boko Haram in Nigeria, Al Qaeda and ISIS affiliates in Mali, Hezbollah in Lebanon, and the Houthis in Yemen, to name just a few.

Terrorism is only the first stage of Islamic warfare. Once they have the numbers and the firepower, Islamists transition to guerrilla warfare, seizing and holding territory that they then expand outward from, killing and driving away non-Muslims and unaffiliated Muslims.

The Hamas attacks followed that same strategy. Even the vicious cruelty, the rapes, the beheadings, the torture and the dead children, are part of the standard Islamic playbook. Beyond gratifying their followers and gaining new recruits, atrocities are used to drive away the non-Muslim populations so that Muslim populations can be brought in to replace them. .

Terror was used to depopulate Kashmir of Hindus. The Islamic crimes included raping and sawing a Hindu teacher in half while she was still alive. ISIS employed similar tactics as do the Islamic Jihadis operating in Africa. Rape and the murder of children are used to panic non-Muslims into fleeing and leaving the area to be colonized and occupied by Muslims.

Muslims had used these same tactics against Jews before the State of Israel was reborn. During the Hebron Massacre in 1929, Muslims tortured, killed and mutilated women and children to destroy the Jewish community in the historic city. During Israel’s War of Independence, Muslim forces, similar to those deployed by Hamas, tried to overrun Jewish communities and butcher their inhabitants. The difference is that the typical ‘kibbutz’ back then was heavily fortified and its residents were able to hold out even against superior numbers.

While some of the ‘kibbutzim’ targeted by Hamash held out this time around, others were unprepared for an attack of this kind. Their limited security forces were overwhelmed by superior manpower once the Hamas terrorists were able to get past their security barriers. What would not have worked against a kibbutz in 1948 has succeeded tragically well in 2023.

What went wrong in Israel was not just an intelligence failure, but a conceptual failure.

Hamas views itself as a successor to the Arab Muslim forces that had attacked Jews in the 20’s and 30s, not to mention the 40s, using these same tactics. Its jihadist force is known as the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades after a Muslim cleric who had tried to conduct his holy wars in Syria and Libya, before coming to Israel where his ‘Black Hand’ targeted Jewish communities.

Israel, like America, treated the actions of terrorists as relevant, but their ideological worldview as irrelevant, even though the only way to predict their actions is by understanding what they believe. This schizophrenic approach to terrorism is necessary to avoid dealing with the Islamic beliefs that motivate the Jihadists to do what they do. Every time government officials around the world claim that the terrorists have nothing to do with Islam, they are blinding themselves.

The false notions that there are “moderate” and “extremist” Islamic terrorists or that the various terrorist groups are just reacting to something we did, rather than advancing their beliefs, has made it impossible for nations to accurately predict future Islamic attacks.

Modern counterterrorism is reactive, training on what the terrorists are doing now, and learning to prevent it, with no ability to anticipate when the terrorists change their tactics, as Al Qaeda did when it switched from centrally planned long-range attacks to ‘lone wolf’ attacks locally. These transformations can only be anticipated by understanding the purpose of Islamic warfare.

The Jihad is a colonial settler project to subjugate the world under Islamic law. Senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar said last year that “we are not talking about liberating our land alone… the entire 510 million square kilometers of Planet Earth will come under [a system] where there is no injustice, no oppression, no treachery, no Zionism, no treacherous Christianity.” Seizing Israel is just another stage toward seizing all 510 million kilometers.

Experts fail to comprehend Islamic terrorism because rather than understanding how Jihadists think, they project their own tendency toward unnecessary geopolitical complexity onto them. Unable to admit that the only way to meet ruthless armed force is with ruthless armed force, they overthink everything and assume that Islamic terrorists want us to ‘react to them’.

Islamic terrorists cannot be trusted when it comes to negotiations, but they should be taken at their word when they describe what their ultimate goals are. Hamas has been telling us all along what its goals are. Over the last 5 years, it proposed a ‘March of Return’, urged Gazans to cut through the border fence and promised that they would conquer Israel and seize Jerusalem.

The failure to take Hamas at its word about its intentions is what led to this nightmare.

Israel’s political and military leadership needs to fundamentally reorient its thinking. Hamas partially succeeded in its invasion. That means that if left to control Gaza, it will do it again. The success it achieved will spur a wave of recruits and money. Already the propaganda images have allowed Hamas to temporarily eclipse ISIS as the leading jihadist organization in the world.

Hamas has always made its intentions clear. It is out to mobilize all of Israel’s Arab Muslim population and those of the surrounding countries to provide it with money and manpower to attack, invade and destroy Israel. After long years of shelling, it launched a first major invasion to depopulate and then seize Jewish communities within range of the Gaza border.

Some Jewish communities have now been depopulated. While some residents will rebuild, others will leave. Hamas is celebrating such departures as a validation of its strategy that with enough terror all the Jews of Israel will leave the land. And the Muslims will take over.

Hamas leaders gambled that hiding behind civilians would allow them to survive any Israeli retaliation. After enough bombs have been dropped on empty buildings and the media accuses Israel of devastating Gaza and killing civilians, Biden will threaten to cut off support. Previous Israeli retaliations have consistently played out this way and this one may too unless a united Israel is willing to defy the Biden administration and finish the job. Otherwise Israel should anticipate that Hamas will rebuild bigger and stronger than ever with more wealth and a flood of new recruits motivated by tangible evidence of what horrors they can accomplish. The hostages will be traded for terrorists once family members level enough pressure on the government. And Hamas will resume planning for another invasion. And this one may succeed.

The experts will go on getting it wrong because they don’t understand Islam. And without understanding an enemy’s worldview and beliefs, predicting their actions is very difficult.

Intelligence failures are rooted in a materialistic reading of the enemy. Israel was nearly destroyed 50 years ago during the surprise attack of the Yom Kippur War because its intelligence head was convinced that the timing made no tactical sense. And he was right. But the Egyptian invaders prioritized attacking on the holiest day in the Jewish calendar.

The Yom Kippur War timetable may have made no secular strategic sense, but it made sense to those who understand that the purpose of Islamic warfare is to assert the supremacy of Islam over all other religions. A mandate embodied by the Islamic cry of, “Allahu Akbar”.

From a secular strategic perspective, the Hamas invasion baffles experts, but scheduled on the day of Simchat Torah, the joyous conclusion of the Jewish High Holy Days, it makes perfect sense. It was not a terrorist attack, but an invasion meant to fulfill the Islamic mission of reconquering Israel, driving out the Jews and colonizing their towns and cities, killing most, taking captives for ransom, and others as slaves, which is the entire purpose of Hamas.

And of every Islamic terrorist group operating in and around Israel.

The next time, Hamas will try to reach its third stage, to fortify, occupy and annex communities within Israel. And then the enemy will no longer be ‘out there’, but beginning its conquest of Israel, seeking to link up with Arab Muslim towns and villages for the final campaign of Jihad.

Unless Israel finishes Hamas now, it will be fighting Hamas deep inside the Jewish State.


« Last Edit: October 12, 2023, 12:07:55 AM by objectivist1 »
"You have enemies?  Good.  That means that you have stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill.

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Why there never is peace between Israel and the Palestinians
« Reply #2640 on: October 12, 2023, 12:04:09 AM »
Why There is Never Peace Between Israel and the Palestinians
Hint: it's not about negotiations over territory.
October 12, 2023 by Robert Spencer


[Make sure to read Robert Spencer’s contributions in Jamie Glazov’s new book: Barack Obama’s True Legacy: How He Transformed America.]

In its analysis of the war that has begun between Hamas and Israel, CNN noted on Saturday that the Biden regime was just in the process of pressuring Israel to make a series of concessions to the Palestinians in order to further the cause of normalization of ties between Israel and Saudi Arabia. In this, both the sinister establishment media propagandists of CNN and the sinister kleptocrats of the Biden regime betrayed their fundamental failure, or refusal, to understand why there is this apparently endless conflict between Israel and the Palestinians in the first place.

CNN reported that “as recently as this week, Biden had hoped to be nearing the completion of a major agreement with Israel and Saudi Arabia to establish formal diplomatic ties, potentially transforming the entire Middle East. The expectation had been that the deal would include agreement from Netanyahu on certain concessions to the Palestinians, including potentially freezing settlements and agreeing to an eventual Palestinian state.”

The universal assumption is that freezing settlements and agreeing to a Palestinian state (which the Palestinians have previously rejected on numerous occasions) will bring peace. Yet this is not true, and the Palestinians themselves have made that clear on numerous occasions over the years. Back on Oct. 5, 2018, on “Not a Neighbor,” a program on official Palestinian Authority television, Sharia judge Muhannad Abu Rumi denounced the idea that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was about territory and could thus be subject to negotiations:

People could be deluded or think…that we have no way out with the Jews…The liberation of this land is a matter of faith, which will happen despite everyone. The Jews leaving this land is a divine decree…The war is not only over this strip of land, as you all know the Jews want everything and not just a part. They want to subjugate us, and that we be slaves to their command…

Just a week after that, during a Friday sermon at the Islamic Center of South Florida, Imam Hasan Sabri offered a succinct encapsulation of the principle of “Drive them out from where they drove you out” (Qur’an 2:191): “If a land is occupied or plundered, it should be liberated from its occupiers and plunderers, even if this leads to the martyrdom of tens of millions of Muslims.”

Sabri ridiculed the very idea of negotiations: “Take the Palestinian cause, for example. It is not being plotted against with a deal they call ‘the Deal of the Century.’ Why do they call it a ‘deal’? Because whoever is involved in this treason is not a man of principles. These are peddlers, not men with a cause. All they want are positions and jobs. That is why for them, the cause is nothing but a deal, a matter of give and take. For them, it is nothing but a deal.”

To this, Sabri contrasted the “position of a believing Muslim about the Palestinian cause,” which he characterized in this way: “That Palestine in its entirety is Islamic land, and there is no difference between what was occupied in 1948 and 1967. There is no difference between this village or that village, this city or that city. All of it is Islamic waqf land that was occupied by force. The responsibility for it lies with the entire Islamic nation, and the [Palestinians] should benefit from this land. If a land is occupied or plundered, it should be liberated from the occupiers and plunderers, even if this leads to the martyrdom of tens of millions of Muslims. This is the ruling, and there is no room for discussion or concessions.”

There is no room for discussion or concessions because of the nature of the foe as they communicate it to their people. An Egyptian Muslim cleric, Sheikh Masoud Anwar, on Al-Rahma TV on Jan. 9, 2009, also stated that negotiations with the Israelis were worthless because Jews could not be trusted. He declared: “The worst enemies of the Muslims — after Satan — are the Jews. Who said this? Allah did.” Indeed he did: it’s in the Qur’an (5:82).

Numerous Muslim clerics have for many years contradicted the general assumption that the Israeli/Palestinian conflict was over land and could be settled through negotiations. As Barack Obama pressed Israel to resume peace talks with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, in the summer of 2013, Sheikh Hammam Saeed, the leader of the Jordanian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, thundered that eradicating all Jewish presence from the Holy Land was a matter of Islamic law. He termed the idea of a negotiated settlement “heresy, according to Islamic law, because Allah says that Palestine belongs to the Islamic nation, while they say that Palestine belongs to the Jews. Anyone who says that Palestine belongs to the Jews has no place in the religion of Allah, and no room in this creed. This is an issue of heresy and belief.”

Examples of this kind of rhetoric could be multiplied endlessly. Yet in the next few days, Biden and his cohorts will demand that Israel stop defending itself and return to the negotiating table. You know, some men you just can’t reach.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2023, 07:14:26 AM by Crafty_Dog »
"You have enemies?  Good.  That means that you have stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill.

ccp

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After the Hamas atrocities,experts scurried to explain why it had embraced “ISI
« Reply #2641 on: October 12, 2023, 07:55:33 AM »
Objectivist
the 3 phase plan makes perfect sense

to me

I am thinking if they murder hostages and post online it will backfire and harden Israel and it's supporters.

Welcome back BBG - hope you stay around for longer.

We like your posts !




ccp

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2642 on: October 12, 2023, 08:02:11 AM »
the number of Palestinians in 1948 was ~ 160 K ( if I read that correctly )

now in the millions
for the purpose of out populating Jews

and as we have all read they teach their children that hating and murdering Jews noble and makes them martyrs

 :x


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QOTD, Scott Adams
« Reply #2643 on: October 12, 2023, 08:53:05 AM »
Scott Adams
@ScottAdamsSays

Was Gaza an “open air prison” as some say, or was it more like a quarantine to control a lethal mind virus?

I try to avoid ESG, CRT, and DEI like they are deadly mind viruses. It’s not a statement about the people who are infected. They are victims too.

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Re: Israel, and its neighbors
« Reply #2644 on: October 12, 2023, 10:02:54 AM »

Crafty_Dog

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RANE: US support for now
« Reply #2647 on: October 12, 2023, 04:15:35 PM »
The U.S. Throws Its Support Behind Israel, Saving Its Scrutiny for After the War
10 MIN READOct 12, 2023 | 21:01 GMT





A photo illustration shows the U.S. and Israeli flags.
A photo illustration shows the U.S. and Israeli flags.
(Getty Images)

U.S.-Israeli ties will remain close over the course of the current war, but tensions will grow in the aftermath as the White House pressures Israel to reduce the risk of future conflicts that might drag the United States back into the Middle East. The United States has unequivocally thrown its support behind its long-time ally Israel following the attacks that the Gaza-based Palestinian militant group Hamas began on Oct. 7. In a nationwide speech delivered on Oct. 11, U.S. President Joe Biden declared that ''the United States [had] Israel's back,'' and would ''make sure the Jewish and democratic state of Israel can defend itself today, tomorrow, as we always have.'' Beyond words, the U.S. government has also given Israel substantial military aid over the past week. Immediately after the initial Hamas assault, the USS Gerald R. Ford — the U.S. Navy's largest aircraft carrier — was deployed to the Mediterranean as an explicit show of support. Washington has also begun arms transfers to resupply the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF), and has reportedly sent U.S. special forces to advise on the hostage crisis in the Gaza Strip as well. Moreover, the United States has warned Iran and its Lebanese ally Hezbollah that it may intervene on Israel's behalf if the Gaza conflict begins spilling into other countries, with Joint Chief of Staff head General Charles Q. Brown telling Tehran on Oct. 9 ''not to get involved'' as U.S. forces raced to the region. However, not all U.S. politicians have reacted the same way. In an Oct. 11 radio interview with Fox News, Republican presidential frontrunner Donald Trump criticized Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, saying that he and Israel were ''not prepared.'' In addition to former President Trump, at least one other member of the GOP has also expressed skepticism toward Israel in the wake of the Hamas attacks. On Oct. 11, Representative Thomas Massie (R-KY) Massie said he would not break his policy of voting against all foreign aid for the Middle Eastern country, leading media to speculate that other lawmakers in Congress, like progressive members of the Democratic Party, might join him for a no-vote on future support to Israel.

While Israel and the United States do not have a formal defense treaty, Israel is a major non-NATO ally, which allows it access to more advanced U.S. weapons, a U.S. stockpile on its territory, and enhanced training opportunities. Nevertheless, Israel's defense is a bipartisan concern: the country has received an estimated $160 billion in total U.S. aid since its foundation in 1948, much of which came after the United States and Israel aligned in the 1960s against Soviet-backed Egypt and Syria.
Despite these close ties, U.S. public opinion on Israel has shifted over the past decade — driven by both partisanship and generational shifts in how Americans' perception of the country views Israel, with Democrats and younger voters tending to be more critical of Israel. In March 2023, Gallup reported for the first time that Democrats viewed Palestine with greater sympathy than Israel, with 49% of respondents sympathizing more with Palestinians, and 38% sympathizing more with Israelis. Support for Palestine among U.S. independent voters also hit a new high in the 2023 survey, with 32% favoring Palestinians. In the same survey conducted in 2014, just before the last major Gaza war, only 23% of Democrats and 18% of independents said they sympathized more with Palestinians. Republican sympathy has remained highly aligned with Israel, with 78% saying they favored Israel over Palestine in the 2023 Gallup poll compared with the 80% who said so in the 2014 poll.
Before the war, the United States had expressed concern about many of the Israeli government's actions and policies. The Biden administration has been particularly critical of the Israeli government's recent push to overhaul the country's judicial system, which has sparked widespread protests since the reforms were announced at the beginning of the year. In July, after Israel's government passed its controversial ''reasonableness'' bill that banned judges from using liberal legal customs to decide cases, Biden called Prime Minister Netanyahu to try to convince him to broaden the consensus on future reforms, indicating the White House was concerned about domestic stability and its impact on Israel's security and military. That same month, the White House also chided Netanyahu's move to form an alliance with far-right partners, with Biden noting that the new government included ''some of the most extreme members'' he had ever seen in Israel. And in regards to managing Palestinian tensions, the White House has criticized the Israeli government's push to expand West Bank settlements, and also condemned its conduct during the previous 2021 Gaza war.

During the Gaza war of 2021, Biden used back channels to de-escalate and pressure the Israeli government to use restraint, which helped bring an end to that conflict in 11 days. After the 2021 Gaza war, the U.S. House of Representatives, in an unprecedented but ultimately symbolic move, voted not to immediately send new Iron Dome supplies to Israel. Though the body ultimately voted overwhelmingly in favor of the legislation, progressive Democrats in Congress were in part responding to their supporters' increased criticism of Israel and demands for greater scrutiny of aid to the country in the wake of the war.
Tensions also existed between Netanyahu and former President Barack Obama, particularly over the latter's push to negotiate a nuclear deal with Iran, which Netanyahu and Israel said was too weak to prevent Tehran from developing a nuclear weapon.
In the United States, Jewish Democrats have also become increasingly critical of the current composition of the Israeli government, which includes Religious Zionism, an heir party to the far-right Kahanist movement that was banned in both the United States and Israel. In addition, liberal Jewish Americans have expressed alarm over Netanyahu's attempts to legally shield himself from ongoing corruption trials. Many also oppose his government's judicial reforms on the grounds that they risk weakening Israel's democracy.
The United States will remain willing to resupply, diplomatically support and potentially militarily intervene in the course of the conflict. But once the emergency phase of the war is over, U.S. politicians will join their Israeli counterparts in questioning the Netanyahu government's role in the intelligence failures that led to Hamas' surprise attack. The United States will continue to back Israel in the wake of the new war by supporting its Gaza military campaign and ongoing search for hostages, as well as by helping deter Iran and Hezbollah from escalating into a regional conflict. But Washington will not need to maintain this level of support once the war is over, which will likely see the United States join Israelis in scrutinizing the Netanyahu government's role in the latest surge of violence. There is already substantial domestic outrage in Israel over their government's failure to anticipate the Hamas terrorist attack that killed over 1,300 Israelis, which is now being compared to the worst days of the Holocaust in Israeli media. In a Dialog Center poll released on Oct. 12, 86% of Israeli voters — including 79% of the ruling coalition's current supporters — said the new Gaza war was the result of failed government leadership. The IDF has promised to launch a full investigation into the causes of the Oct. 7 assault, which will likely find that the government's policies — namely, its management of Hamas in Gaza and push to expand settlements in the West Bank —- were at least partially to blame in triggering the current conflict with the Palestinians. When the investigation is complete, such findings will arm American critics of U.S.-Israel ties with more evidence that the United States should further scrutinize its support of Israel and, in particular, more aggressively push back against the policies of Netanyahu's government.

U.S. national security debates will feed into the reappraisal of U.S.-Israeli ties. With the United States now involved with arming Ukraine and trying to deter China, Washington has long focused on trying to reduce its military presence in the region and build up a network of friends and allies to replace its security footprint. Already, U.S. defense officials worry that an extended war in Israel might affect the U.S. arms supply to Ukraine, with both Israeli and Ukrainian troops using the U.S.-manufactured 155mm artillery shell, a weapon that Israel would need at scale in case of a war in Lebanon and which Ukraine's demands have already stretched thin.
In the face of challenges from Russia and China, the United States has also been trying to de-escalate with Iran, including through a recent agreement to transfer $6 billion in frozen Iranian funds to Tehran in exchange for American prisoners. Concern about Iran and China has also spurred Washington to push for Saudi-Israeli normalization and a regionwide air defense network of its allies.
The political fallout from the Gaza conflict may make it virtually impossible for the United States to ink a defense pact with Israel. Concern about Iran and China has also spurred Washington to push for Saudi-Israeli normalization, along with a regionwide air defense network of its allies. As part of Israeli-Saudi normalization talks, the White House reportedly was prepared to offer Israel and Saudi Arabia defense pacts that would formally commit the United States to come to their aid if either country came under attack. Such offers may have been designed to increase the chances that any U.S. promises made to ink an Israeli-Saudi normalization deal could become part of a treaty passed by the U.S. Congress, which is skeptical of offering concessions to Saudi Arabia but more open to defense guarantees to Israel. But in the wake of the Gaza War, it's more clear that Israel's own policies could ignite conflicts that are not directly in America's interests and could push the United States into a war with Iran, making a defense pact for Israel less politically viable.

In response to domestic political pressure, the Biden administration might more actively intervene in Israeli politics to try to convince the Netanyahu government to address the policies that have driven violence with the Palestinians. While the Biden administration prefers to keep its criticism of the Israeli government private, the United States may press the Netanyahu government to change its settlement policies, approach to the judicial reforms, and policies towards the Gaza Strip that helped fuel the recent violence, even if such policies alienate the far-right that the government relies on. Additionally, the White House will have viable alternatives to Netanyahu's leadership, including former Prime Minister Yair Lapid, who refused to join the new Israeli unity government formed in the wake of the Hamas attacks and on Oct. 12 accused the Netanyahu government of ''unpardonable failures.'' Some Israeli voters and politicians motivated by their government's ability to manage ties with the United States, Washington will have the option to shape the public narrative surrounding the Israeli government and could help convince individual members of the Knesset, particularly from the center-right Likud party, to potentially bring down the government to hold fresh elections.

In the run-up to the Oslo Accords in 1992, the U.S. pushed the right-wing Israeli government of Likud's Yitzhak Shamir to take part in talks with the Palestinian Liberation Organization by threatening to block loans Israel needed to absorb immigrants from the collapsing Soviet Union, as the United States pushed to resolve the core drivers of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict after the 1st Intifada. Shamir relented and began the talks, but his government collapsed shortly thereafter.


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Re: 10,000 rifles for Israeli civilians
« Reply #2649 on: October 12, 2023, 05:57:10 PM »